more high tier japanese destroyer changes

[Reisen__]

so this taking from a post that Nikopower posted over on the states forums

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/80610-056-patchnotes-and-downtime/page__p__1973840#entry1973840

so appreantly wargaming are removing the type 93 mod 1 torps

Fubuki, Kagero, Shimakaze

The range of the torpedoes was generally reduced. To prevent the "torpedo spam" situations in battles and encourage players who prefer high-tier Japanese destroyers to switch to a more aggressive gameplay style, we also removed some torpedo types, whose range was excessive, from the modules available for these destroyers.

• Fubuki: Type 90 mod 1 torpedoes were removed
• Kagero: Type 93 mod 1 torpedoes were removed
• Shimakaze: Type 93 mod 1 torpedoes were removed
• The research and purchase costs for the remaining torpedo types were adjusted to keep the total cost in XP and Credits unchanged. Players will receive compensation for the removed torpedo 

[Ictogan]

So why does gearing get to keep its 16.5km torpedoes and the highest torpedo range on IJN DDs is 12km now? Not gonna cry about the removal of these torps, but if they want to get rid of long range torp spam, why only do it with IJN DDs?

[Aerroon]

So why does gearing get to keep its 16.5km torpedoes and the highest torpedo range on IJN DDs is 12km now? Not gonna cry about the removal of these torps, but if they want to get rid of long range torp spam, why only do it with IJN DDs?

 

Because Wargaming balances based on statistics, particularly the amount how much the ship is played. And because there are so many more IJN DD players they see it as a "problem", whereas US destroyer player numbers are low.

The reason why it's okay for there to be so few CV players is because their target for CV players is very low in the first place. That's also why they keep [edited]carriers over for a long time now.

 

Personally, I think IJN destroyers were already pretty poor at the high tiers. Now they'll be even worse, so this increases wins through matchmaking - get too many IJN DDs you lose. Fletcher already is the best torpedo destroyer and Gearing is probably #2. This affirms their status even more, because they still have the range and their torpedoes have much much less detectability - even with the IJN torpedoes' enhanced speed you have much less time to react to US torpedoes than IJN ones.

[22cm]

"For all Commanders who have specialisation in the affected ships, players will have the possibility to redistribute skill points of such Commanders for free."

 

Finally, they do this.

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

 

Because Wargaming balances based on statistics, particularly the amount how much the ship is played. And because there are so many more IJN DD players they see it as a "problem", whereas US destroyer player numbers are low.

The reason why it's okay for there to be so few CV players is because their target for CV players is very low in the first place. That's also why they keep [edited]carriers over for a long time now.

 

Personally, I think IJN destroyers were already pretty poor at the high tiers. Now they'll be even worse, so this increases wins through matchmaking - get too many IJN DDs you lose. Fletcher already is the best torpedo destroyer and Gearing is probably #2. This affirms their status even more, because they still have the range and their torpedoes have much much less detectability - even with the IJN torpedoes' enhanced speed you have much less time to react to US torpedoes than IJN ones.

 

So i get it now, WG have been very biased towards USN DD's for a reason. They want IJN DD captains to start leveling up another DD line, USN, Russian, German. They keep nerfing the hell out of IJN DD's to the point of destruction, the DD's will be unplayable from T8 with the shambolic changes. Yet no nerf to the USN DD line, the Benson alone has been way OP for a long, time yet no nerf, Gearing and Fletcher are way superior to Kagero and Shima, yet WG they see the need to nerf IJN DD's again.

[Takeda92]

Tell me, since when NA released patchnotes before anyone else and no other server released anything yet?

 

Devs on Q&A said there was a big nerf planned but they decided not to do it. They also said they wanted to do a captain reset but also decided not to do it. Guess what the patchnotes said...

 

Please wait for more reliable notes before judging?

[Ew_]

To be honest, the Type 93 mod 1 torpedoes were made completely obsolete with their nerf (they were already bad).

The 12KM ones are also trash that even BBs can avoid with their nerf, 12KM ones with torpedo acceleration makes em 9.6KM and still as easy to avoid. They should remove those as well as they are also obsolete.

 

The only usable torpedoes on the Shimakaze are now the 8KM ones, which i guess means most IJN captains need to spend dubloons to re-spec their captains without torpedo acceleration. Not only is the shimakaze the lowest performing, the slowest, with the largest turning circle, and bleeds most speed whilst turning DD. It now has an engagement range of about 6.2 - 6.5KM from certain angles only.

 

 

Its a ship about pure luck, luck in enemies movements and that you went to the right spot at the start. And that you do not run into a kagero (better concealment), CV, or enemy DD.

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

"For all Commanders who have specialisation in the affected ships, players will have the possibility to redistribute skill points of such Commanders for free."

 

Finally, they do this.

 

and this makes it ok ? wrecked DD's and throw in a sweetener that makes little difference as the IJN DD's are wrecks anyway

[Ictogan]

 

So i get it now, WG have been very biased towards USN DD's for a reason. They want IJN DD captains to start leveling up another DD line, USN, Russian, German. They keep nerfing the hell out of IJN DD's to the point of destruction, the DD's will be unplayable from T8 with the shambolic changes. Yet no erf to the USN DD line, the Benson alone has been way OP for a long, time yet no nerf, Gearing and Fletcher are way superior to Kagero and Shima, yet WG they see the need to nerf IJN DD's again.

 

Ugh, tier 8 is arguably the best IJN DD right now and far from unplayable. It's the only IJN DD that receives a buff from 0.5.5.

Kagero on the other hand is a POS now whereas Shima can still be made to work, but it doesn't really feel like playing a proper tier 10 ship.

[Ew_]

Ictogan , the Kagero is way better than the Shimakaze with its 5.35KM concealment, it really makes all the diffrence with the 8KM range torpedoes. But then again you are one of those special people who cant differentiate between Detectability(SA) and Visibility(being rendered).

[Reisen__]

Tell me, since when NA released patchnotes before anyone else and no other server released anything yet?

 

Devs on Q&A said there was a big nerf planned but they decided not to do it. They also said they wanted to do a captain reset but also decided not to do it. Guess what the patchnotes said...

 

Please wait for more reliable notes before judging?

 

don't be a bad bob

[Ictogan]

Ictogan , the Kagero is way better than the Shimakaze with its 5.35KM concealment, it really makes all the diffrence with the 8KM range torpedoes. But then again you are one of those special people who cant differentiate between Detectability(SA) and Visibility(being rendered).

 

How do you think I can't differentiate between that lol. The problem with the Kagero is that it has to get into positions where it will get into trouble, but it doesn't have the tools to get out of trouble.

On the Kagero I'd sacrifice 0.5km concealment for the speed of a Shimakaze and the turret traverse of a Fubuki/Shimakaze any day of the week.

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

 

Ugh, tier 8 is arguably the best IJN DD right now and far from unplayable. It's the only IJN DD that receives a buff from 0.5.5.

Kagero on the other hand is a POS now whereas Shima can still be made to work, but it doesn't really feel like playing a proper tier 10 ship.

 

Kagero and Shima are wrecks compared to Gearing and Fletcher, if Fubuki is not good either, but a nerf would effectively wreck this ship too, Fubuki is ok if you can stay invisible, but once spotted by Benson or cruiser it does not have the firepower or speed to get away. If you upgrade the module on Fubuki to HULL C you lose a turret for a bit more AA, so basically anyone that mounts HULL C is nerfing their own ship, this ship normally finishes bottom on T8 stats

[Reisen__]

tbh i don't see the point of nerfing one side becasue people just moaned and complain about japanese DD but when Us Japanese DD players moan about the american DD being overpowered Nothing gets done stats aside i think this is unfair judgement on wargaming part

American DD bias at it's finest

[Ew_]

@Ictogan

Shimakaze has poorer maneuverability and an extremely short engagement span with its worse concealment. An acceptable engagement range is skimming the "im going to be detected" border and hoping you are ahead of where the enemies are going. Oh, and that none of the targets have Target Aquisition System Modification 1 , if they do you have to shotgun them as you cant get in torpedo range without getting spotted. Or that they have a kagero, or USN/Russian DD which will go fullspeed toward where they think you are if they get spotted, ofc you can never turn away in time if you were headed towards them.

 

The kagero still can, with its much better concealment, it makes sense with the F3 torps. Altho it gets outrun by cruisers which is terrible, as it also blees a lot of speed whilst turning.

 

Meanwhile Gearing keeps its nigh undodgable torps that have up to 16.5KM range. Gearing player still put up torp walls that appears out of nowhere right next to enemies, which have no chance of dodging them.

[Ictogan]

@Ictogan

Shimakaze has poorer maneuverability and an extremely short engagement span with its worse concealment. An acceptable engagement range is skimming the "im going to be detected" border and hoping you are ahead of where the enemies are going. Oh, and that none of the targets have Target Aquisition System Modification 1 , if they do you have to shotgun them as you cant get in torpedo range without getting spotted.

 

 

The kagero still can with its much better concealment, it makes sense with the F3 torps. Altho it gets outrun by cruisers which is terrible, as it also blees a lot of speed whilst turning.

 

Ugh, I think you are misunderstanding how target acquisition mod 1 works. It makes you spot ships in smoke and behind islands from 3km instead of 2, it extends your maximum rendering distance and it extends torpedo spring range by 20%, but it doesn't help with spotting ships further away than 3km.

And I have played both the Kagero and the Shima after the patch with the 8km torpedoes and I felt much safer using them in the Shima.

 

Oh and about that bullcrap you said about me not knowing the difference between being detected and being visible: here's a post from me from 3 days ago where I explained the difference to someone else:

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/50464-someone-forgot-to-adjust-situational-awareness-in-055/page__st__640__pid__1041407#entry1041407

[ColonelPete]

Not everyone has a captain with 15 points on IJN DDs. Without the additional concealment the high Tier IJN DDs are hard to play.

[Ew_]

Ah so you admit you were wrong, good to hear, unlike this guy who religiously defends it.

 

If that is the case i have misunderstood it yes, damn thats a hellofa lot of Tier10 DD players without Concealment Expert. That being said, Shimakaze is literally unplayable without Concealment expert. I have yet to run into a Shimakaze which has, or wasnt spotted by something else.

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

tbh i don't see the point of nerfing one side becasue people just moaned and complain about japanese DD but when Us Japanese DD players moan about the american DD being overpowered Nothing gets done stats aside i think this is unfair judgement on wargaming part

American DD bias at it's finest

 

That's exactly the way it seems now

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

[Reisen__]

well i think i'm calling it from this game

tbh the amount of bias nerfs are to damn high <- reason why i hate playing F2P games

i only played this game becasue it was fun at first but then with the crap that has started with patches after patches nerfs after nerfs it's really hard to play a game when your favorite ships get nerfed to oblvion

 

[Spellfire40]

 

How do you think I can't differentiate between that lol. The problem with the Kagero is that it has to get into positions where it will get into trouble, but it doesn't have the tools to get out of trouble.

On the Kagero I'd sacrifice 0.5km concealment for the speed of a Shimakaze and the turret traverse of a Fubuki/Shimakaze any day of the week.

2 Things: kagaro cant hit Targets that on a away Course at 30 kn so shima with higher detectability cant either BUT kagaro get run over by some CA because its lack of Speed were shima can disengage since it has the Speed. either way you Need 12 to 15 km to efect non pushing Teams AND 8 km Torps even if you had 4k stealth makes you totaly predicable if there is a CV and you get wrecked by even BBs firing Ap at that range. If they want it that way srew different Nation gameplay and buff their rof and turet turn rate.

[Ictogan]

And I have played both the Kagero and the Shima after the patch with the 8km torpedoes and I felt much safer using them in the Shima.

 

What utter rubbish lol, you feel safer in the Shima with 8km torps   you serious ?? lol

 

You have only played 26 battles with a Shima, and only survived 7 lol, must cost you a fortune in credits

 

In the first few of those battles I just wasn't used to the higher detection range and in quite a few of the other battles I played like complete sh*t. But yes, I feel safer in the Shima because it actually has very decent guns and good speed.

[Reisen__]

how wargaming is dealing with the japanese line 

 

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

 

In the first few of those battles I just wasn't used to the higher detection range and in quite a few of the other battles I played like complete sh*t. But yes, I feel safer in the Shima because it actually has very decent guns and good speed.

 

 

In the first few of those battles I just wasn't used to the higher detection range and in quite a few of the other battles I played like complete sh*t. But yes, I feel safer in the Shima because it actually has very decent guns and good speed.

So your more than happy to go into a gunfight with a Gearing ?