AA & CV's..This has gotta stop WG

[cro_pwr]

 

I doubt you could learn anything new from me in regards to playing Carriers, you just need to get over your bias as to this patch being the end of the world for Cv.

 

well, I might learn how to adapt and choose proper targets, or learn how to do well since I obviously " have learning difficulties doing well in CVs after patch", so any help is appreciated.

and for the bolded part, quote pls where did i say that.

[Cadelanne]

It's not that this patch is the end of the world, it's still fairly playable and what's unfar with CVs still unfair with this patch, there's nothing new.

 

What's wrong with this patch is that we have no clue on what WG truely want with CV and if their goal is to nerf them improving AA is the worst move possible in term of gameplay. Now we're also worry about how is it going to be since we wonder when it's going to stop.

[avenger121]

for the n-th time. you cant compare stats if you dont have enough data. if you had lots of yamatatoes in hakuryu, you would get bad average damage in hakuryu. those 25 players are only thing keeping the average of hakuryu "average". get the first 2-3 players not to play hakuryu for 2 weeks, and average damage of hakuryu will drop to below 100k. if you get first 2-3 yamato players to stop playing yamato, you wouldnt affect the average much, if at all.

 

Mate I dont know where pull your numbers off, but they are not correct nor your theory of "only 2-3 Haku players are good, stats are skewed against my opinion".

 

Given the fact that only 51 players played the Haku the week from 14.5. - 21.5., 25 of your ppl being above 106k DPG doesnt sound like the stats are skewed.

 

 

CVs are far from being UP, half of the ppl in this thread just made themself look like fools by screaming stuff like "Carriers are only good at low tier if the enemy does not know what to do."

[robihr]

 

Mate I dont know where pull your numbers off, but they are not correct nor your theory of "only 2-3 Haku players are good, stats are skewed against my opinion".

 

Given the fact that only 51 players played the Haku this week, 25 of your ppl being above 106k DPG doesnt sound like the stats are skewed.

 

 

CVs are far from being UP, half of the ppl in this thread just made themself look like fools by screaming stuff like "Carriers are only good at low tier if the enemy does not know what to do."

 

it was 2 weeks, not 1 week. and first 3 players make 10% of the games in haku, so yes stats are skewed.

 

leaderboards for haku in last week. filter over 10 battles played

 

stats with over 25 battles played

 

 

those with over 25 battles played make more than 1/3rd of all battles played in hakuryu over last week. so yes few players can make huge difference in stats.

 

yamato has 10x more players, and a lot more casual players than hakuryu. nowadays casual players dont even get close to higher tier CV, but they sure take their yamato.

 

like i said before stats are abusable, cause ppl read them how they want them.

 

btw here are leaderboards for yamato:

10 battles

25 battles

[robihr]

btw yes i know warships.today doesnt have all data, but it is enough to prove a point

 

is CV player pool small? yes

are few skilled players significantly affecting CV stats? yes

are few skilled players significantly affecting yamato stats? no

do leaderboards show that both CV and yamato can pull of comparable average damage? yes

does yamato have more tomato players than hakuryu? yes

[ghostbuster_]

today had too many cvs in battles and the result. taiho and hakuryu could attack my montana even under conbined aa with a yamato. (montana captain has aft and manual aa). i played with lexi 2 battles. i had problems about getting fighter setup lexis in both of them but i could attack the ships. even to north carolinas. so stop crying here and play your game.

[avenger121]

btw yes i know warships.today doesnt have all data, but it is enough to prove a point

 

is CV player pool small? yes

are few skilled players significantly affecting CV stats? yes

are few skilled players significantly affecting yamato stats? no

do leaderboards show that both CV and yamato can pull of comparable average damage? yes

does yamato have more tomato players than hakuryu? yes

 

Your theory remains bullshít. Between the 14.5. and 21.5. we have 51 ppl that played 1050 Hakuryu matches. Lets assume the numbers for the last week are roughly the same, because there is no reason why the Haku playerbase has doubled or the ppl play suddenly 3x the amount of matches.

 

So your first screenshot contains already 19 players with 106k DPG and above, together they played 478 matches. 19 from 51 and 478 of 1050. Doesnt really sound like your mind boggling nonsense theory of "muh top 3% elitists skew stats hurr durr". This list is limited to 10 matches and above, and you said yourself that warshipstoday has not all the data available.

 

Also still we have T8 and T9 CVs as top dmg dealers at their tiers, with far larger amounts of matches played and playerbase. Mate deal with it, CVs are totally not UP. CV meta was bad and wont come back, as much as you might wish for it.

[robihr]

 

Your theory remains bullshít. Between the 14.5. and 21.5. we have 51 ppl that played 1050 Hakuryu matches. Lets assume the numbers for the last week are roughly the same, because there is no reason why the Haku playerbase has doubled or the ppl play suddenly 3x the amount of matches.

 

So your first screenshot contains already 19 players with 106k DPG and above, together they played 478 matches. 19 from 51 and 478 of 1050. Doesnt really sound like your mind boggling nonsense theory of "muh top 3% elitists skew stats hurr durr". Sounds more like the normal skill distribution where the top 1/3 is above the average DPG. This list is limited to 10 matches and above, and you said yourself that warshipstoday has not all the data available.

 

Also still doesnt explain why also T8 and T9 CVs are top dmg dealers at their tiers. Mate deal with it, CVs are totally not UP. CV meta was bad and wont come back, as much as you might wish for it.

 

i never said they were UP, but they are not OP as some ppl make them to be. and i put out this stats cause some ppl like to abuse stats to make CV seem like totally OP class. you even put out the numbers haku has 106k, and yamato only has 86k average damage.

 

top 3 players(not top 3%) dont skew stats? those 3 players have 119 batles with 165k average damage. lets see how they affect population if they arent included

 

119*165k+1000*x=1119*106k
1000x=1119*106k -119*165k
x=98,98k

 

so if stats of those 3 players arent included hakuryu suddenly has 99k average damage. so 7k average damage drop

and if you remove top 3 yamato players? how much avg damage will drop? i would bet not even 700hp. so how is my theory a [edited]?

 

reason why hakuryu has such OP stats, and yamato doesnt is cause CV has more unforgiving play towards noobs. you either get skilled or you stop playing CV. yamato is much more forgiving and thus has much more casual players that are dropping down yamato stats.

 

like i said before if CV should be counter to BB, and they can barely sink one unrepaired yamato worth of damage on average (with repairs yamato health pool is more than 120k-130k HP). and that is on random where potatoes go solo everywhere in yamato. look at teambattles where any team with half a brain can make CV totally UP, cause 2-3 ships combined AA makes plane approach impossible.

 

 

[Spellfire40]

 

Your theory remains bullshít. Between the 14.5. and 21.5. we have 51 ppl that played 1050 Hakuryu matches. Lets assume the numbers for the last week are roughly the same, because there is no reason why the Haku playerbase has doubled or the ppl play suddenly 3x the amount of matches.

 

So your first screenshot contains already 19 players with 106k DPG and above, together they played 478 matches. 19 from 51 and 478 of 1050. Doesnt really sound like your mind boggling nonsense theory of "muh top 3% elitists skew stats hurr durr". This list is limited to 10 matches and above, and you said yourself that warshipstoday has not all the data available.

 

Also still we have T8 and T9 CVs as top dmg dealers at their tiers, with far larger amounts of matches played and playerbase. Mate deal with it, CVs are totally not UP. CV meta was bad and wont come back, as much as you might wish for it.

​Under 160 Essex and under 130 Taiho is a large sampe at t9 with over 300 Yamato 490 Izumos (considered as one of the worse IJN BBs) and 789 Iowas

On T8 ist pretty ist Shokaku 348  Lexi 422 NC 1733 Amagi.1202 and with that sample size amgi comes out on top wich i find a bit strande considering that Lexi mostly Play strike sice it has ist anti sniping AA barage.

[avenger121]

 

i never said they were UP, but they are not OP as some ppl make them to be. and i put out this stats cause some ppl like to abuse stats to make CV seem like totally OP class. you even put out the numbers haku has 106k, and yamato only has 86k average damage.

 

top 3 players(not top 3%) dont skew stats? those 3 players have 119 batles with 165k average damage. lets see how they affect population if they arent included

 

119*165k+1000*x=1119*106k
1000x=1119*106k -119*165k
x=98,98k                                       

 

so if stats of those 3 players arent included hakuryu suddenly has 99k average damage. so 7k average damage drop

and if you remove top 3 yamato players? how much avg damage will drop? i would bet not even 700hp. so how is my theory a [edited]?

 

reason why hakuryu has such OP stats, and yamato doesnt is cause CV has more unforgiving play towards noobs. you either get skilled or you stop playing CV. yamato is much more forgiving and thus has much more casual players that are dropping down yamato stats.

 

like i said before if CV should be counter to BB, and they can barely sink one unrepaired yamato worth of damage on average (with repairs yamato health pool is more than 120k-130k HP). and that is on random where potatoes go solo everywhere in yamato. look at teambattles where any team with half a brain can make CV totally UP, cause 2-3 ships combined AA makes plane approach impossible.

 

 

 

3 out of 51 = 6% of total population

 

So if you kill the top 6% off avg DPG for Hakuryu falls to 98,98k. Literally unplayable. This is still only 13k more than Yamato population with top 6% population. OMG, CV buff plox, only 13k more DPG, unacceptable!!!!

 

 

Using the same naive fallacy on your first Yamato list, (22 players with 487 matches/ total: 363 players with 6602 matches, 85,8k DPG):

 

487*128k+6115*x=6602*86k

6115x=6602*86k-487*128

x=82,66k

 

 

 

Killed on both sides top 6%, the Hakuryu has only 16k DPG advantage, as already said, literally unacceptable. Only 16k more DPG than the best non CV ship, which is by some ppl considered OP due to overmatch mechanic, CVs are truly unplayable and UP.

 

 

​ Under 160 Essex and under 130 Taiho is a large sampe at t9 with over 300 Yamato 490 Izumos (considered as one of the worse IJN BBs) and 789 Iowas

On T8 ist pretty ist Shokaku 348  Lexi 422 NC 1733 Amagi.1202 and with that sample size amgi comes out on top wich i find a bit strande considering that Lexi mostly Play strike sice it has ist anti sniping AA barage.

 

Large sample size compared T10 CVs. Also it is more than understandable, that so few people are interested in playing babies first RTS. Hell even back at the end of CBT, in CV meta, only 10-15% ever played CVs according to Lesta.

[robihr]

 

3 out of 51 = 6% of total population

 

So if you kill the top 6% off avg DPG for Hakuryu falls to 98,98k. Literally unplayable. This is still only 13k more than Yamato population with top 6% population. OMG, CV buff plox, only 13k more DPG, unacceptable!!!!

 

 

Using the same naive fallacy on your first Yamato list, (22 players with 487 matches/ total: 363 players with 6602 matches, 85,8k DPG):

 

487*128k+6115*x=6602*86k

6115x=6602*86k-487*128

x=82,66k

 

 

 

Killed on both sides top 6%, the Hakuryu has only 16k DPG advantage, as already said, literally unacceptable. Only 16k more DPG than the best non CV ship, which is by some ppl considered OP due to overmatch mechanic, CVs are truly unplayable and UP.

 

that is why i say you abuse stats. if you have only unicums in one class, and mix of everything in other, which will have higher avg damage? with leaderboards it was proven that yamato has more players that do over 106k damage, so it is obvious that it is not a problem in yamato. so is it a problem in player base?

 

 

i love how you abuse stats.

lets abuse them more:

last week stats

t4 ishizuchi: 32,906

t4 wyoming: 29,870

t4 isokaze: 28,242

t5 NY: 29,329

t5 kamikaze:33,699

 

so all those ships are comparable to hipper in stats. and you are singling out CV. idk what is your point.

 

and if you want to see more OP than hipper:

 

t4 imperator nikolai: 44,418

t4 arkansas beta: 42,254

t5 texas: 43,751

t5 hiei: 41,270

 

like i said raping stats in your favor isnt point of this discussion. player base of CV and player base of other ships is vastly different.

 

the ones who are playing the cv on higher tiers are mostly ok-good players (yes there are bad players, but a lot less than in average BB or CA).

if you want similar comparison in stats you should compare texas with NY, or hiei with kongo. ships are almost the same, just they are played by more skilled players.

texas: 43,751

NY: 29,329

hiei:41,270

kongo:33,243

 

 

look hiei has 8k more damage than kongo. nerf hiei. 

look texas has 14k more damage than NY. nerf texas.

[avenger121]

 

that is why i say you abuse stats. if you have only unicums in one class, and mix of everything in other, which will have higher avg damage? with leaderboards it was proven that yamato has more players that do over 106k damage, so it is obvious that it is not a problem in yamato. so is it a problem in player base?

 

Abuse server stats, top kek. Dear stats denier, I know it is diffcult for you to accept things that dont fit your subjective opinion, but denying objective data is not the way to convince people. Stop making yourself look like a fool, sweetie.

 

If you think the fact that there are more people having above 106k DPG in Yamato than Hakuryu is related to CVs being UP and not the fact that the Yamato playerbase is roughly 6 times bigger, then you are beyond hope.

 

 

Looking at the thread title, if you think AA is OP balance wise, stop denying server stats, if you think AA is atm not a fun mechanic because it involves no skill element, one could agree with you.

[allufewig]

 

 

If you think the fact that there are more people having above 106k DPG in Yamato than Hakuryu is related to CVs being UP and not the fact that the Yamato playerbase is roughly 6 times bigger, then you are beyond hope.

 

 

Looking at the thread title, if you think AA is OP balance wise, stop denying server stats, if you think AA is atm not a fun mechanic because it involves no skill element, one could agree with you.

 

Perfectly said.

 

Evidence doesnt support the theory of weak CVs. It is just a common problem that people cant distinguish objective performance from subjective and individually perceived fun (oh the Atlanta-discussions I had). That said, I agree that the AA mechanics with zero player skill involved are probably a suboptimal solution gameplaywise, even when trying to look at it from an objective pov.

[avenger121]

look hiei has 8k more damage than kongo. nerf hiei. 

look texas has 14k more damage than NY. nerf texas.

 

Totally not related with the fact that players that invest into premium ships or unlocked several pretty grind heavy missions are experience and commitment wise above the avg player. [Yeah, I know about WGs premium ship policy, and I wonder myself why they stopped using the WoT premium balance model, maybe it is T22 or WTE100 lvls of ignorance.]

 

Serisouly, what do you want to prove with this, this has nothing to do with CV balance or server stats, you are acting like a brainless entity, think just 2s about your arguments before you post them. You act worse like the random pubbie sitting full HP at 24km sniping with his Yamato while his teammates get slaughtered.

[Elenortirion]

 

Totally not related with the fact that players that invest into premium ships or unlocked several pretty grind heavy missions are experience and commitment wise above the avg player.

 

Serisouly, what do you want to prove with this, this has nothing to do with CV balance or server stats, you are acting like a brain dead zombie, think just 2s about your arguments before you post them. You act worse like the random pubbie sitting full HP at 24km sniping with his Yamato while his teammates get slaughtered.

 

reading that discussion between two of you from the side it looks like pretty much:

A: CV is not OP, you are abusing statistics for them to look OP

B: AARGH YOU ARE STATS DENIER THEY ARE TOTALLY NOT UP

 

repeated all over and over again

 

also his point with hiei was exacly what you said - higher skill level on the base of player playing it when compared to average skill level on the base of kongo players makes the ship having higher averages and by this making pure stats look onto them twisted image of reality

 

how it comes to CV balancing?

while someone could die his way to yamato if you do not become skilled on CVs you just won't reach any high tier CV [unless you are extreme masohist] so average "skill level" on the bigger playerbase of yamato players is much lower than the average skill level of such hakuryu playerbase - and that influences stats, and thats why basing screams on CV being OP purely on server statistics is wrong - that was his point

 

as the actuall balancing of hakuryuu goes I can't tell as I've managed only to get as far a hiryuu and I haven't played her in a while

 

 

Perfectly said.
 

Evidence doesnt support the theory of weak CVs. It is just a common problem that people cant distinguish objective performance from subjective and individually perceived fun (oh the Atlanta-discussions I had). That said, I agree that the AA mechanics with zero player skill involved are probably a suboptimal solution gameplaywise, even when trying to look at it from an objective pov.

 

and as far as I'm reading this discussion robihr never got up with weak CV theory - he was countering the "CV OP theory" which is quite different thing

 

as for current AAA mechanics I'd say that it is really suboptimal ESPECIALLY when trying to look at it from an objective pov.

[robihr]

 

Abuse server stats, top kek. Dear stats denier, I know it is diffcult for you to accept things that dont fit your subjective opinion, but denying objective data is not the way to convince people. Stop making yourself look like a fool, sweetie.

 

If you think the fact that there are more people having above 106k DPG in Yamato than Hakuryu is related to CVs being UP and not the fact that the Yamato playerbase is roughly 6 times bigger, then you are beyond hope.

 

 

Looking at the thread title, if you think AA is OP balance wise, stop denying server stats, if you think AA is atm not a fun mechanic because it involves no skill element, one could agree with you.

 

so you dont agree that hiei is more OP than kongo? are you stats denier?

 

and ffs i never said CV are UP. i said that you cant use those stats cause you dont have enough playerbase to correctly interpret stats compared to other classes. if you had 300 players in hakuryu, stats wouldnt be so high, and that is why i repeatedly told you that small number of good players in hakuryu affect hakuryu stats more than small number of good players in yamato.

 

anyways look at this

 

 

[avenger121]

 

reading that discussion between two of you from the side it looks like pretty much:

A: CV is not OP, you are abusing statistics for them to look OP

B: AARGH YOU ARE STATS DENIER THEY ARE TOTALLY NOT UP

 

repeated all over and over again

 

also his point with hiei was exacly what you said - higher skill level on the base of player playing it when compared to average skill level on the base of kongo players makes the ship having higher averages and by this making pure stats look onto them twisted image of reality

 

how it comes to CV balancing?

while someone could die his way to yamato if you do not become skilled on CVs you just won't reach any high tier CV [unless you are extreme masohist] so average "skill level" on the bigger playerbase of yamato players is much lower than the average skill level of such hakuryu playerbase - and that influences stats, and thats why basing screams on CV being OP purely on server statistics is wrong - that was his point

 

If the avg Hakuryu player is more skilled than the avg Yamato player, this still won´t change anything regarding the balance disuccsion. You have to balance around the average WR/dmg/xp/whatever values and not some hypothetical maybe, what if.

 

What if Yamato values are actually higher than they should be because a large amount of Yamato players used the aim assist mod and the values should be actually lower. Buff Yamato??!!

 

 

 

so you dont agree that hiei is more OP than kongo? are you stats denier?

 

and ffs i never said CV are UP. i said that you cant use those stats cause you dont have enough playerbase to correctly interpret stats compared to other classes. if you had 300 players in hakuryu, stats wouldnt be so high, and that is why i repeatedly told you that small number of good players in hakuryu affect hakuryu stats more than small number of good players in yamato.

 

Hightier CV database is small, still it is far more reliabe to balance around that than people´s subjective opinions.

 

I mean look at the 10 first pages of this thead, reading about AA being OP or AA-cancer ships you get the impression CVs are not even able to deal half the dmg of Yamato, even worse they are actually pretty good with CVs and not a single other ship class cant reach their CV stats. You want to use this as basis for balance?

 

I stick to server stats, even if you only get around 1k Hakuryu matches per week, you can still collect more data over time.

[robihr]

 

If the avg Hakuryu player is more skilled than the avg Yamato player, this still won´t change anything regarding the balance disuccsion. You have to balance around the average WR/dmg/xp/whatever values and not some hypothetical maybe, what if.

 

What if Yamato values are actually higher than they should be because a large amount of Yamato players used the aim assist mod and the values should be actually lower. Buff Yamato??!!

 

 

 

so we need to balance hiei cause of the average WR/dmg/xp is all bigger on hiei than on kongo?

[allufewig]

 

and as far as I'm reading this discussion robihr never got up with weak CV theory - he was countering the "CV OP theory" which is quite different thing

 

as for current AAA mechanics I'd say that it is really suboptimal ESPECIALLY when trying to look at it from an objective pov.

 

 

Well okay then, thats fair.

 

Maybe I am too sensible when I see the words "CV" and "balance". But theres that very vocal part of the CV-mafia (it became the standard term for the die-hard fans of a certain class, right?) that apparently wants to go as far as to revert CV power back to the criminally high levels of beta-times, when in fact things are relatively well balanced right now. Im always on alert to verbally punch those maniacs in the face.

[avenger121]

 

so we need to balance hiei cause of the average WR/dmg/xp is all bigger on hiei than on kongo?

 

@ Elenortirion:

You see, he didnt mean to talk about server stats for premium ships being different due to different playerbase, in fact he is completly oblivious about it.

[robihr]

 

@ Elenortirion:

You see, he didnt mean to talk about server stats for premium ships being different due to different playerbase, in fact he is completly oblivious about it.

 

If the avg Hakuryu player is more skilled than the avg Yamato player, this still won´t change anything regarding the balance disuccsion. You have to balance around the average WR/dmg/xp/whatever values and not some hypothetical maybe, what if.

 

 

no, i am just using those arguments against you. you just said that we need to balance ships around WR/dmg/xp and not some hypothetical maybe what if. hiei has real stats that it is OP over kongo, so we need to balance it. it is not hypothetical maybe, what if.

[avenger121]

no, i am just using those arguments against you. you just said that we need to balance ships around WR/dmg/xp and not some hypothetical maybe what if. hiei has real stats that it is OP over kongo, so we need to balance it. it is not hypothetical maybe, what if.

 

That the playerbase for the ARP Kongo is more experienced and shows more commitment for WoWs is a fact, not a hypothetical theory. Hakuryu playerbase is magically far more skilled than the Yamato playerbase because CV grind is masochistic, assuming there are no ignorant pubbies that simply dont recognize how bad they are and simply died their way into high tier, is a hypothetical theory. Mate please, I am tired of discussing Haku server stats being 100% accurate or not, even if you chop 30% of Haku dmg stats off, it is still far from UP.

 

I see, this is some kind of dead-end. Let´s do a total no-brainer and assume CV server stats are magically 30k higher than they should be. Hakuryu would sit at 76k DPG, looking at the other T10 ships [keep in mind I didnt include DDs in my list, which all have even lower DPG] this is still not UP. I dont see why people are even arguing this.

 

CV meta was insane and it´s dead for a good reason, CVs in the current state dont need any buffs, it is against common sense.

 

 

CV balance is completly unrelated to AA mechanics being a fun gameplay element.

 

Edit: Spoiler

[cro_pwr]

aaaaaaaaaaaaand once again I'll have to repeat myself...

If SOMEONE thinks CVs are doing too much damage, then simply nerf damage done per torp/bomb instead of buffing AA to the point that CV aren't fun to play / are completely useless if there are even 2 ships sailing together.

 

[Ictogan]

 

I see, this is some kind of dead-end. Let´s do a total no-brainer and assume CV server stats are magically 30k higher than they should be. Hakuryu would sit at 76k DPG, looking at the other T10 ships [keep in mind I didnt include DDs in my list, which all have even lower DPG] this is still not UP. I dont see why people are even arguing this.

 

CV meta was insane and it´s dead for a good reason, CVs in the current state dont need any buffs, it is against common sense.

 

 

CV balance is completly unrelated to AA mechanics being a fun gameplay element.

 

No-one is arguing that CVs need buffs, all we are arguing here is that CV avg damage being higher than avg damage of other classes doesn't mean CVs are a OP. But somehow when we say "CVs aren't OP", you are hearing "CVs are completely UP, buff them back to  the way they were in closed beta".

[robihr]

 

complete redo for the CV is long overdue. WG doesnt know what to do, so it nerfs it since CBT. spotting needs to be rewarded so CV can actually scout. CV can be OP when enemy CV is total biscuit and enemy team is soloing all over the map. if there is some cohesion in enemy fleet and enemy CV isnt total r*tard, CV drops to role of a scout till it spots a ship that his bombers if not intercepted by fighters can attack.

 

 

same for me. CV-s are my least played class, but i still take them here and there. but what they are doing to them is a crime. they either need to remove them or completely rework them. nerfing just isnt a solution

 

 

constructive feedback is that AA is too strong on higher tiers. that is a fact. CV can do reduced torp run+DB run on isolated lone undamaged BB and will suffer some losses(primarily on TB cause they do primary damage). if there are 2 ships, it is highly unlikely that bombing run will do any damage. specially if there is DF active. if there is 3 ships, CV can only suicide his planes in an atempt to do damage (and he doesnt stand a chance that he will actually do damage).

 

i have worked for a big company and had to interpret data of 500k users. data is all about presentation and every data can be interpreted in different ways depending on what you want to achieve. same effect can be presented in positive and negative light. just cause they have data do you think they are interpreting it correctly? i can interpret so haku seems UP and OP at the same time from same set of data.

 

problem is that ppl dont want to see CV as highest damage dealing class. which is kinda ironic in rock-paper-scissors contest. if BB that have highest health pool dont have a counter that can take them out, then you dont have a counter to BB. rock paper scissors contest in which BB is rock and rules dont allow paper.

 

idk if dd or cv should be the counter to bb, but so far dd with their abysmal average damage isnt a counter, as much as psychological deterrent of possible instant death. CV perform excellently in low and mid tiers due to lack of AA (so even bad players can have good results in them), but when you get to higher tiers you get several nerfs. increase in TB damage is negligible cause BB also get torpedo protection, so that increase in TB damage is actually not increase. also with AA you actually get less TB damage per attack. only cause of higher speed plane and higher reserves you can actually do some damage with TB. usually more than half damage comes from fire/flooding, but even that is questionable in higher tiers with premium consumables and higher tier captains. if there is CA near BB you cant even approach that BB cause DF will make your run effective as crap.

 

so when i see someone bring up the stats that CV have too high damage output i say what do you expect from BB natural enemy? lets look little at stats from last week from rock paper scissors perspective.

hakuryu has 105k average damage. that is little over 1 yamato killed, and midway has 89k which is little less than yamato hp.

yamato has 87k average damage. that is little over 2 zaos killed, 1.7 DMs and Hindenburgs and 1.3 Moskvas.

zao has 80k average damage. that is 4 dd kills.

 

pls ppl with 0 battles in CV dont comment how CV should get nerfed cause they are OP or cause stats make them OP.

 

less TB damage for less AA.. i would trade for that...

 

btw if ppl check CV on teambattles you will see how OP they are... just glorious scouts that may get some damage.

 

 

it will not deter bombing if BB is solo, but that is not the problem. solo BB were never the problem. problem is that WG is buffing AA with every patch so solo BB can be a very big problem. this is the point of this thread.

 

solo BB is easy picking, but 2 BB? BB and CA? you will lose your planes so fast that you would be lucky to get any torp hit. and then fcourse you have enemy cv fighters...

 

you arent a cv player, so problems of higher tier cv battles arent obvious to you. most of the good players quit t8+ battles cause there is no fun in them. you pray that battle lasts long enough so you can be of use and till then you are trying to snipe dd.

 

 

carriers havent been buffed once since the start of open beta. they only saw nerfing with every patch or 2. and now you want them even more nerfed...

 

 

CV need limited MM with +/-1 tier. and AA/planes balanced on ships on those tiers.