AA & CV's..This has gotta stop WG

[blademansw]

First caveat, I don't play CV, I tried them in CB and didn't really enjoy the playstyle.

 

That said, it strikes me that WG are following their time tested method of stopping playing a class that has long been perceived as OP or broken. Any WoT players remember the great artillery nerf? From back when artillery was supposed to be the primary damage dealer on the team.  I think they are going to continue to nerf CV's either through direct nerfs, or indirect nerfs such as AA improvement on other classes.

 

The other night, I was divisioned up with a mate in his North Carolina, I was in my Atago which is setup for DD hunting, the enemy CV (Hiryu) sent two TB and one DB squadron at us, whilst we were slightly isolated from the rest of the fleet. How many planes do you think got through our AA?  

 

 

[lankylad11_lankylad]

What do carrier players want their carrier to be able to do, how to do it and what role do they want them to perform?

There must be some consensus among the veteran CV players what they think the carriers' role, strenghts and weaknesses should be and how the game aircraft carrier mechanics should be like in order to be fun and rewarding for all classes of ships?

 

that depends on how you want to set up your carrier.  the problem is that US ones are forced into a specialist role, where the IJN ones can be more multipurpose, but almost better at the specialist role to the US.  speaking personally, i sail a CV to do damage, it being my job to hammer BBs to get them killed.  Unfortunately,  Midway is now almost an irrelevance in that department since it lost the second TB, that hit very hard.  since now Hakuryu is better at air superiority AND strike power.  Midway needs 3/1/1 to even begin to make it fair again.  Midway used to be my favourite ship by a very big distance, but now i never play it and won't till it gets AP DB's and/or the second TB back, because a Tier 10 CV  should be able to put out a certain level of striking power and thanks to the RNG nature of DB's, Midway can't any more.   The role of an IJN CV SHOULD be damage dealing, which is why these triple/ quad fighter loadouts which have multiple torpedo bombers in are nonsense.  US the theory at most tiers should be to bully the IJN CV while retaining a respectable punch,  tiers 6 and 8 exemplified this till they killed the lexington stone dead, by repeating the problem ranger had.  In being outclassed by 2/2/2.  In terms of mechanics, if you reward CVs more for spotting and cap resets et al, more CVs will do it

[lankylad11_lankylad]

the times i saw a 3/0/2 midway were very rare, because no one is going to sail a tier 10 CV that cannot launch torpedo bombers, while dive bombers are in their pathetic state.  If you are going to push US CVs into a DB centric way of damage dealing, you either have to change the reward mechanics for CVs to encourage things other tham damage dealing, or you have to allow dive bombs to deal big alpha.  If you could do a manual drop on a yamato with a dive squad, come away with 15k/20k dmg regularly per squad, that would make the top ones playable again.  IJN focus on TBs so they are fine, its just their AS loadouts are overpowered, and the strike setups of Taiho and Hakuryu should be restricted to one fighter squad not two

[pra3y]

You missed my point entirely. Just like any other ship, when you do a tiny mistake, you pay with something - ships play with HP points, you pay with planes. And it isn`t normal to be sloppy and lose only one plane. What would be normal would be to lose more, like a half squad, if you snooze, simply because everybody else pays heavily for their mistakes. 

 

This might force you to wait for ships to scout that particular spot you intend to attack and/or sacrifice a few fighters to see how much AA is there - tough luck. Tip-friggin`-toe your way just like everyone else, not assume you should torp DDs and CAs and have any plane left. Your role should be BB killer ONLY, not "I do whatever the darn I want and I`ll go whine on the Forums if I lose a plane when I hit a Cleveland".

 

As someone said earlier in this thread - you carry your team to victory easiest with a CV, or something to that effect - maybe it`s time to take this burden off CV`s shoulders, as it isn`t normal, or fun, to have ONE ship decide a win. So, CV`s are almost relegating from above BB status to somewhat between BB and CA in terms of "relevancy" - if you like them, you will play them. If you won`t, don`t be a hypocrite and say it - "I played only `cos they were OP".

 

You are the one who is missing my point. Any ships (including CV) that make a mistake sure they pay with HP like showing their broadside, sail to close to the enemy without backup etc etc. They (non-CV ships) do not get any major penalty if they miss their shot. If I 1 v 1  a BB in my Pensacola and I miss my shot, I don't get any penalty. When the BB returns fire I either angle my ship or manoeuvre out of the way so that BB's shots either miss or do minimal damage and I then continue shelling that BB. Ignoring the HP part for now, worse case, your turret gets temporarily knocked out or permanently. How often does that happen? Also if you miss you still have those infinite shells coming from some pocket dimension in your ship. You can shoot 500+ shells in a CA and only land 200+ without any consequence to your damage potential apart from your "HP". Its the same with any other ship that is not a CV. The closest that I can say is similar is the recent pre-patch DDs. Every other HE shot that lands on them put a turret to repair or destroys it, making it hard for USN and Russian DDs to play properly and that was a big problem which was luckily resolved. On the other hand when a CV player attacks, his planes exposed to AA which will shoot down and limit his attack power, his torp or bomb attacks can be dodged and if he loses his squadron he gets a time penalty before he can attack again.

 

No one is saying that we have to remove AA. The whole "CV OP cause it can strike anywhere" is balanced by the fact that almost every ship in this game has some AA to provide some protection against a CV attack.The last patch already relegated CVs to a non-carry position. Very good CV players are probably still able to deal good damage but when you have a game now where it is rare to see tier 9/10 CVs and tier 6/7/8 CVs have to take up their mantle in mid~high tier games it gets difficult to do anything. Attacking CAs is out of the question since AA from them is too strong, especially at those tiers and rightfully so. Attacking the enemy CVs waste a huge amount of time and resources which will not achieve anything and high tier CVs also have defensive AA now. In your reply you said we should hard counter BBs. Yet the reason why there is so much noise is cause BBs with already strong AA such as the Colorado, NC, Iowa and Montana are getting got even more buff to their AA. My NC already has an AA rating of 90 with BFT and AFT. If I get the module upgrades it'll probably be even more. So now you cannot do much damage to a lone USN BB (tier 7 onwards) who stray from the rest of his team-mates cause their AA is at a near god-like level tier for tier. That I forget to mention that a Hiryu does not have tier 7 TBs and has tier 6 TBs instead? So if we talk about BBs then probably only IJN ones, which has slightly weaker AA compared to a USN BBs. Then we come to DDs. In the current meta, as a tier 7 CV player in tier 7/8/9 games you will not be able to reliably strike the first 3 classes early game. So you do what is best for you team (at least that is what I think) and scout & hunt for DDs. If a DD player is lucky, the CV player either ignores them and stupidly go for the first 3 target or goof up their drops. That or no CV in game, which is DD heaven since no perma spotting. If the DD is unlucky, thenthey either get smacked by torps, detonated by bombs or get perma spotted. USN DDs have pretty good AA and at tier 8 onwards with their AA on should be able to take down a whole Hiryu figther squadron spotting them since there are only 4 planes. All nation DDs can run towards their CAs, forcing the CV to call off the spotting. DDs have enough speed and manoeuvrability to avoid torp drops or DB attack. But the small amount of AA makes them the most viable target to attack, although actually being able to hit them is debatable unless they do silly stuff like sitting in a small patch of smoke. So who should a CV attack then I ask you? You keep on talking about tough luck this and that, but you can't give me a conclusive answer on what I should do. Your suggestions like scouting and stuff are all things that I'm already doing since the last AA patch ( the one before 5.6) so unless you can tell me how I can effectively do anything with my Hiryu in this kind of conditions, stop making it look like other classes have it bad all the time and CVs have it easy (For that matter, no classes have it easy, each have it tough but while they gain some buff/equaliser in other patches, CVs just don't get anything in general. Better fighter gameplay does nothing except take out enemy planes and even though the USN CVs got better bombs, they still rely on RNG like a BB)

 

I can spot and provide air cover the whole match, sink 2 DDs (kirov and fletcher) and deplane the enemy Hiryu but my team can still lose. I can sink 3 ships and do decent damage to the other team's ships and my team can still lose. I have matches where I am barely able to do anything, 1~3 torp hits, some planes shot down and also some bomb hits, yet my team can win easily. It might be the easiest for CVs to carry but at the same time they are not omnipotent, it is still up to whole the rest of the team play to determine how the game will end. Potato BBs or CAs who camp at the back and refuse to push even though you've either spotted or killed enemy DDs? Lose game. Yolo DDs who have no idea what they are doing in domination mode, like refusing to cap when enemy has cap advantage and instead chase a BB across the map (and I mean no idea. Yolo DDs with ideas on what they are doing perform differently)? Lose game, unless the CV player and other non DD ships full steam and cap.

 

 

Not only spotting. Why are you using word games now? You still have your strike planes and fighters. What he said is that you scout anyway if you want to win, as part of that much loved "teamwork".

 

Ah, so we don't want CVs to be the main carry of the team, yet CVs are expected to scout, provide the air cover and strike constantly/at the same time in a 20 min game now if we want to win. And all this time we've only been talking about a CV player carrying out strike attacks against a target and AA. Should we start talking about how at the same time while a CV strikes a target, they have other roles and duties to furfil in order to help the team or should we stick to the damage whoring part, which apparently is now something that only occurs in a CV player rather than any player who decides that the amount of damage they do is more important than helping out their teammates/ completing the mission ( Please don't tell me that "other ships don't damage whore, they're just damaging/sinking enemy ships so that the team can win". If that is so then is it different from a CV player who does the same? Or does it only apply to a CV player only?)

[Krinag]

Ok - so  after patch 0.5.6.0 lower tier fights starts to look like higher tiers for CV's - AA is much less forgiving. Is this better ? 4th tier is a starter for CVs , and it was good as it was I think. Now - not only gameplay is similar to higher tiers , but it's actually harder for lower tiers, because their plan base (hangar) is so small in comparison. As for higher tiers - today (after patch) I had 2 of my squadrons killed by North Carolina which I didn't even see on my screen...it's starting to get ridiculous.

 

[ShinGetsu]

It's not "starting", it IS ridiculous.

 

But I'm surprised nobody saw this huge nerf for IJN CV :

 "The 'Team Killer' status now takes into account allied aircraft destroyed in an Air Squadron Assault, launched by pressing [Alt]"

 

 

[Syrchalis]

Oh we saw that, but it was discussed in the patch 0.5.6 thread instead.

 

Also just as Ishiro and me said, patch changed nothing, because no-fly zones are still no-fly zones and rest is as usual. DD hunting all day.

 

First game I played today was great to show just how pointless this change was in terms of good players. But I'm pretty sure they killed off CVs for most players, since most players are average.

 

Damage is low because I wasted 3 strikes killing DDs, one that missed. Sad that WG doesn't make damage to destroyers count more on the actual number as well. At least you get the same reward for killing a 15k hp destroyer and a 80k hp battleship... and you win more games of course.

[ShinGetsu]

Welp, I'm learning how to use CV. I'm grinding the IJN line and I think I'm an average-good player. I'm still at the Ryujo atm.

 

For now, and from what I've seen and played :

- Hosho is OPcrap. Ultimate sealclubber, easy to play, a killer when top tier, BB are huge and heavy target, and even the Langley have trouble fighting against it.

- Zuiho isn't bad thanks to the tier 6 fighters and TB, but the DB are useless, and fall really easily even against weak AA. Zuiho's issue is more its US counterpart. With a total of 30 planes, Bogue in fighter setup is just unfairplay. Bogue can just deny any chance for the IJN to play, and it's doesn't take any skill. In the end, the Zuiho still carry more because Bogue in fighter setup can't block all the strike. Still, compared to the Hosho, Zuiho is arguably bad. Add this the new pink feature and I'm kinda happy to have sold it already.

- Ryujo is more serious business. 48 planes is the moment when you can start getting some serious strike... or not, planes are so fragile that you'll lose them against a Kongo. The DB are way more durable thanks to the upgrade, but the TB are horrible. You'll lose them easily against a Nagato which had until today one of the worst tier 7 AA. Cleveland and the like starts to become really annoying.

- Hiryu scares me. I don't wanna play the same tier 6 TB in a CV that fight Saipan everyday. -_-

- Shoka seems really good when top tier. It's the CV I want the most atm. But with all the AA buff I'm kinda worried now... Welp, yesterday in Division with a friend in Shoka, I set afire a NC 7 times with my Kutuzov, and destroyed most of his AA... or so I thought, I only got the long range one. My friend managed to strike him, but when the plane dropped and immediately after, he lost 3 planes in less than one seconds. And they buffed it AGAIN with this patch. -_-

 

I don't know Taiho and Haku enough to have an opinion.

[Xerkics]

Oh we saw that, but it was discussed in the patch 0.5.6 thread instead.

 

Also just as Ishiro and me said, patch changed nothing, because no-fly zones are still no-fly zones and rest is as usual. DD hunting all day.

 

First game I played today was great to show just how pointless this change was in terms of good players. But I'm pretty sure they killed off CVs for most players, since most players are average.

 

Damage is low because I wasted 3 strikes killing DDs, one that missed. Sad that WG doesn't make damage to destroyers count more on the actual number as well. At least you get the same reward for killing a 15k hp destroyer and a 80k hp battleship... and you win more games of course.

Thats funny because for any other ship class that would be really good damage. Also killing DDs or CVs is never a waste since they can decide battles. They should really give more credit to CVs for killing DDs on that i agree.

[Aerroon]

 You guys have to remember that if you look at stats of CV players in terms of win rate you have to take into account the fact that CVs are a closed system. For every CV that wins there's a CV that loses.

 

The strongest opponent to a CV is another CV by design, because he's the only one that can chase your planes or do the equivalent to your team what you are doing to their team. What this means is that if you're a good CV player then you will hold the advantage almost every time - you are better than the enemy CV and thus you bring more to your team than the enemy CV, and there is almost no variance to that. This inevitably means that you will consistently offer more to your team than the enemy CV will to theirs and thus you will have a much higher win rate, because your "competition" isn't doing as much.

 

And the biggest way how CVs contribute is by spotting. The difference between a spotting CV or not is whether the enemy Zaos, Ibukis, Baltimores, Des Moines etc can stealth fire with impunity. Same goes for the DDs. It also makes it so people are much less likely to island camp (due to being spotted behind it and a potential strike). You also spot torpedoes and can thus neutralize torpedo destroyers and cruisers etc. There's just so much spotting does and that's the biggest way CVs can sway the game other than just murdering the opposition, which, often just doesn't happen at all. On the other hand, CVs are great at racking up damage because BBs are the things you can hit most consistently and most BBs misuse their damage control party.

 

When I play a tier 10 CV these days I tend to crush them. The number of players that are good that still play CVs regularly is low and this means that I will outdo the random T10 CV I'm up against. It's not the same in another class - even if I play better than the enemy Yamato my Montana can still get crushed. Or the enemy might not even have a direct competitor for me and they use other means. This means that in other classes I'm a lot less assured that I'm "crushing" my competition.

[ShinGetsu]

 You guys have to remember that if you look at stats of CV players in terms of win rate you have to take into account the fact that CVs are a closed system. For every CV that wins there's a CV that loses.

 

The strongest opponent to a CV is another CV by design, because he's the only one that can chase your planes or do the equivalent to your team what you are doing to their team. What this means is that if you're a good CV player then you will hold the advantage almost every time - you are better than the enemy CV and thus you bring more to your team than the enemy CV, and there is almost no variance to that. This inevitably means that you will consistently offer more to your team than the enemy CV will to theirs and thus you will have a much higher win rate, because your "competition" isn't doing as much.

 

And the biggest way how CVs contribute is by spotting. The difference between a spotting CV or not is whether the enemy Zaos, Ibukis, Baltimores, Des Moines etc can stealth fire with impunity. Same goes for the DDs. It also makes it so people are much less likely to island camp (due to being spotted behind it and a potential strike). You also spot torpedoes and can thus neutralize torpedo destroyers and cruisers etc. There's just so much spotting does and that's the biggest way CVs can sway the game other than just murdering the opposition, which, often just doesn't happen at all. On the other hand, CVs are great at racking up damage because BBs are the things you can hit most consistently and most BBs misuse their damage control party.

 

When I play a tier 10 CV these days I tend to crush them. The number of players that are good that still play CVs regularly is low and this means that I will outdo the random T10 CV I'm up against. It's not the same in another class - even if I play better than the enemy Yamato my Montana can still get crushed. Or the enemy might not even have a direct competitor for me and they use other means. This means that in other classes I'm a lot less assured that I'm "crushing" my competition.

Which means only great player have any chance to do anything in higher tier CV. I'm not against skill-based ship, but this is going too far.

 

I don't think removing strike possibilities and not rewarding the spot at all is a great solution.

[Mangrey]

 You guys have to remember that if you look at stats of CV players in terms of win rate you have to take into account the fact that CVs are a closed system. For every CV that wins there's a CV that loses.

 

The strongest opponent to a CV is another CV by design, because he's the only one that can chase your planes or do the equivalent to your team what you are doing to their team. What this means is that if you're a good CV player then you will hold the advantage almost every time - you are better than the enemy CV and thus you bring more to your team than the enemy CV, and there is almost no variance to that. This inevitably means that you will consistently offer more to your team than the enemy CV will to theirs and thus you will have a much higher win rate, because your "competition" isn't doing as much.

 

And the biggest way how CVs contribute is by spotting. The difference between a spotting CV or not is whether the enemy Zaos, Ibukis, Baltimores, Des Moines etc can stealth fire with impunity. Same goes for the DDs. It also makes it so people are much less likely to island camp (due to being spotted behind it and a potential strike). You also spot torpedoes and can thus neutralize torpedo destroyers and cruisers etc. There's just so much spotting does and that's the biggest way CVs can sway the game other than just murdering the opposition, which, often just doesn't happen at all. On the other hand, CVs are great at racking up damage because BBs are the things you can hit most consistently and most BBs misuse their damage control party.

 

When I play a tier 10 CV these days I tend to crush them. The number of players that are good that still play CVs regularly is low and this means that I will outdo the random T10 CV I'm up against. It's not the same in another class - even if I play better than the enemy Yamato my Montana can still get crushed. Or the enemy might not even have a direct competitor for me and they use other means. This means that in other classes I'm a lot less assured that I'm "crushing" my competition.

 

Well ... you are right about the skill .... and then im going to be the first to from all us crap Tir 10 CV players "We are verry sorry for being so shite we cant help the team"

 

 

 

mang

[Destroyeru]

I didn't read all the pages of this thread, at least till the fourth page. And i want to tell you how i feel when i play my tier 9 Taiho....

First i have to say that i am a main CV player, i played a bit all the other ships at my friends.

 

So,  now, with all those nerfs on CVs, especiallly the one that lowered the "tier" of the planes i feel very very bad playing my high tier CVs.

People (especially BBs players) always think on 1vs1 battle against a CV, it doesn't work like this guys... When i try to kill a BB now, it's so hard you can't image (And it's not cause i'm bad at CVs, rather i think i am a good player).

This is the situation:

1) If you want to attack an american BB, forget it ! Even if it is a lonely Iowa(for example) it can destroy all your torpedo squadron on a Taiho (strike loadout), cause it has the new captain skill (Manual fire control for AA armament), and when i say all, it's ALL ! If you are lucky you will attack with only 1 squadron torp......WOW !  And there it is the ship fighter that will sh.t on your attack and the ship will avoid your attack, or the enemy fighters will block you.

2) BBs players (as i told you before) think that thay are 1vs1 against CVs, no guys, no..... when i have to attack a ship (BB for example), in most cases i have to avoid defensive AA fire, BBs and CAs fighter, and i have to deal with enemy fighters, a thing that as i read on this thread, is never put on argument. And enemy good CVs will try to strafe all your torpedo squadrons every second.

 

With those constantly upgrades on ships AA, it's impossible to kill a ship that isn't a DD.  It's not worth to kill another type of ship ! And i didn't play the 5.6 patch already that will improve again AA on ships......

 

I just feel frustrating playing high tier CVs, but i love them so much so i started hating WG, and BBs that are always crying for everything (CVs squadrons, DDs torpedoes ecc..), and then you see those guys that are not capable of avoid a craptorpedo attack.....

 

At the end of the argument, you have to deal with so many things you can't image, while microing your squadrons (At least in the IJN CV line).  So DDs, i'm sorry for you but WG does not let me kill anyother ship.

[Sake78]

Forum logic:

 

1. Other class - L2P

2. Own class - Yeah, but, I got it so hard...I`m the exception, poor lil` me.

 

Now, who`s man enough to ask for a complete redo of CV`s, so they follow up in the game meta and general balance rules, rather than the exception? Only hypocrites chanting how UP CV`s are, eh?

[Ictogan]

Forum logic:

 

1. Other class - L2P

2. Own class - Yeah, but, I got it so hard...I`m the exception, poor lil` me.

 

Now, who`s man enough to ask for a complete redo of CV`s, so they follow up in the game meta and general balance rules, rather than the exception? Only hypocrites chanting how UP CV`s are, eh?

 

That forum logic thing you pointed out can be applied to you just as well as to any other person. But if you look at my stats, I have more games in any other ship type than in CVs, yet I'm arguing for CVs.

[Sake78]

 

That forum logic thing you pointed out can be applied to you just as well as to any other person. But if you look at my stats, I have more games in any other ship type than in CVs, yet I'm arguing for CVs.

 

I am mainly a cruiser skipper AND I am actively campaigning to nerf my own ships, like the Atago, MK and Tirpitz, so no, it doesn`t apply to me - not yet. But thank you for your concern.

[Ictogan]

 

I am mainly a cruiser skipper AND I am actively campaigning to nerf my own ships, like the Atago, MK and Tirpitz, so no, it doesn`t apply to me - not yet. But thank you for your concern.

 

I also want some of my own ships such as the Atago or Myoko nerfed but I will keep my opinion that the buffs to AA were completely unnecessary and unlike you I actually knew the story from both(or rather, all 4) sides. And the only class I consider CVs OP against are DDs, yet they are the only class that's not benefiting from the AA buffs.

[Xerkics]

I am actually seeing lot more CVs than before at every tier what magic is this?

[Sake78]

 

I also want some of my own ships such as the Atago or Myoko nerfed but I will keep my opinion that the buffs to AA were completely unnecessary and unlike you I actually knew the story from both(or rather, all 4) sides. And the only class I consider CVs OP against are DDs, yet they are the only class that's not benefiting from the AA buffs.

 

Well, what I would want, or like, if you will, is to include carriers into the current meta, instead of purposefully keeping them outside of it, with their percieved solo carry power and, as a result, with the primadonna behaviour of their skippers, of "Ya, but I haz to carry and such".

 

So, strip them down and include them into whatever criteria of balance that every other ship has to fulfill, instead of treating them like special snowflakes. That will make it simpler from a balance point of view, as they will have to be balanced only as presumably BB hard counter (and, as a result, weaker AA for said BBs - with all the teamwork that they whine about) and scouts, and nothing else - as it appears this is what they "want" and "a CV needs to do". 

[Ictogan]

 

Well, what I would want, or like, if you will, is to include carriers into the current meta, instead of purposefully keeping them outside of it, with their percieved solo carry power and, as a result, with the primadonna behaviour of their skippers, of "Ya, but I haz to carry and such".

 

SO, strip them down and include them into whatever criteria of balance that every other ship has to fulfill, instead of treating them like special snowflakes.

 

Personally I wouldn't mind a complete rework of CVs, but how would you want to put them in a similar place in the meta as other ships?

[Sake78]

 

Personally I wouldn't mind a complete rework of CVs, but how would you want to put them in a similar place in the meta as other ships?

 

Hard counter of BBs and scouts and / or anti planes. SO, weaker AA for BBs, modified drop range a bit, so it will spell suicide for them to even come close to a cruiser and be very risky to attack DDs (but be kept possible to park fighters close enough to keep them spotted) - likely medium range AA buffed to ludicrous levels to anything not a BB. Add one more fighter squad universally to be able to better scout / anti air, as a rough idea, as it seems people mainly say things like "CV should be hard counter to BBs and scout pesky DDs", so it will make them great against their natural prey, while be suicide to attack anything else, or very risky (like mandatory skill based long manual drop if target is cruiser, or insta-lose squad), just as it is for other classes and ships.

 

The above is a rough draft that can be perfected, of course. Have a darn poll of what CV`s see a CV`s primary and secondary role is and balance it based only on said 2 points, if anything.

[Xerkics]

If they nerfed the torp arming distance they could easily nerf the AA as well .

[pra3y]

 

Hard counter of BBs and scouts and / or anti planes. SO, weaker AA for BBs, modified drop range a bit, so it will spell suicide for them to even come close to a cruiser and be very risky to attack DDs (but be kept possible to park fighters close enough to keep them spotted) - likely medium range AA buffed to ludicrous levels to anything not a BB. Add one more fighter squad universally to be able to better scout / anti air, as a rough idea, as it seems people mainly say things like "CV should be hard counter to BBs and scout pesky DDs", so it will make them great against their natural prey, while be suicide to attack anything else, or very risky (like mandatory skill based long manual drop if target is cruiser, or insta-lose squad), just as it is for other classes and ships.

 

The above is a rough draft that can be perfected, of course. Have a darn poll of what CV`s see a CV`s primary and secondary role is and balance it based only on said 2 points, if anything.

 

Which means you agree that this recent AA patch (5.6) is bad right? Since it is mainly BBs that get their AA buffed, including the higher tier USN BBs.

 

Well I don't mind your suggestions, although I think all those potato BB drivers will just continue complaining about how CVs are OP when they get torped and ask for nerfs and we'll just go back to square one again.

[Sake78]

 

Which means you agree that this recent AA patch (5.6) is bad right? Since it is mainly BBs that get their AA buffed, including the higher tier USN BBs.

 

Well I don't mind your suggestions, although I think all those potato BB drivers will just continue complaining about how CVs are OP when they get torped and ask for nerfs and we'll just go back to square one again.

 

I`m neutral about it. It is more about the principle of the issue - "Why should we have an "Alpha Class" outside the regular meta?" 

 

My suggestion would actually make life harder for BBs, which is not a bad thing (I am also dabbling into BBs a bit, so yes, I AM asking for my life to become harder). Would also make it easier to balance things, as we won`t have the "Elephant in the room" situation anymore. [EDIT] Give xp for shooting down planes, so cruisers have a reson to escort BBs, give spotting xp, so CV`s will have a reason to spot DDs or anything and everything that will reward specific required gameplay style.

[pra3y]

 

I`m neutral about it. It is more about the principle of the issue - "Why should we have an "Alpha Class" outside the regular meta?" 

 

My suggestion would actually make life harder for BBs, which is not a bad thing (I am also dabbling into BBs a bit, so yes, I AM asking for my life to become harder). Would also make it easier to balance things, as we won`t have the "Elephant in the room" situation anymore.

 

In all honesty I really don't think CV as of recent time is really OP since ultimately it is depended on the player to fully utilise a CV or any other ship for that matter. It's like the Furutaka, Colorado and Pensacola the 3 ships are considered "bad" ships by a lot of people, yet when they are played using their strengths, they can outshine ships beyond their class and tier level. Karl though is just the spawn of evil. I play all the classes and almost all the lines, which is why I feel that we don't really have a balance for CV currently since the odds are currently stacked more against them (still playable, but more demanding compared to other classes)