Are IJN Tier X large ships still superior to their USN counterparts?

[SirLloydHigginsBoomBoom]

Are IJN Tier X large ships still superior to their USN counterparts?

I read very detailed forum posts with plenty added calculations from 2015 showing how the IJN TX capital ships are way better than their USN counterparts. I am currently on the New York so it's still not too late to change tech tree, and if the IJN ships are SO much better and WG has no plans to remedy that then I'll change tech trees today.

 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE no political correctness crap! 'Oh it depends on your playstyle, oh they both have strengths and weaknesses'... I don't want to make the same mistake as I did in WoT and grind out a Tier X only for it to be completely useless.

 

Ty.

 

sources:

​http://forum.worldofwarships.asia/index.php?/topic/8503-hakuryu-vs-midway-usn-vs-ijn-cvs/

 

forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/47103-yamato-vs-montana-question-answered-in-detail/   (it won't let me put this one down as a link, sorry)

 

[Tyrendian89]

Yamato is clearly superior to Monty, yes. not gonna change, either, even though Monty's getting a few buffs next patch. And same probably for Haku over Midway, though not by quite as much.

But, on T9 Iowa is probably better than Izumo even now, and is getting very substantial buffs soon, so that's a clear win for the USN. And the same might even be true for NC vs Amagi - I won't judge that yet because I haven't tried out how accurate the NC is going to be in practice.

[Comrad_StaIin]

I tested it

The shells fly like magnets to the target

[Syrchalis]

Hakuryu has always been superior to Midway, due to 4/2/2 setup. 4 Fighters can contain Midway completely and 2 TB with 2 DB still give you the strike power of a Shokaku, but with more plane HP and speed. Just Midway is a mile easier to play, simply because of less squadrons and most Hakuryus were using strike setup. It's literally the only CV that should really use AS setup.

 

Since Midway lost a TB for a DB it's just completely inferior. Especially after the last patch with the AA consumable for CVs.

[robihr]

montana could actually be good rival to yamato if there were more cv, but considering that there arent any cv left anymore yamato is superior to montana.

 

haku is now better than midway, but you rarely even see cv on t10 games anymore..

[GulvkluderGuld]

Only have tier IX ships as I focus on ranked battles and that means tier 8. That said:

Zao is considered the best CA in the game, Yamato the best BB and Hakuryu possibly the best CV (but hard to play). For dds, Gearing vs Shimakaze is a toss-up.

 

You ask about Tier X so I'm only mentioning lower tiers and ranked games, but that is a place where IJN is not so superior, except in the CV department.

 

[Syrchalis]

you rarely even see cv on t10 games anymore..

 

Why bother with BBs that have enough AA to go solo and be safe? Why bother with the stress of managing 8 squads - which is TBH about 4x harder than anything else in this game, and I played every class extensively.

 

And especially why bother when every patch you'll just get nerfed again? I've long since moved on to BBs mainly, because you're just god. DDs cant hurt you if you are smart. Cruisers get oneshot. Fire simply gets repaired. Most CVs are too bad to properly drop nowadays. I mean, if you're a CV player like me, you barely ever take serious damage from a CV drop just because you know how to counter it. If 5+ ships focus you plus you get CV dropped, yes then you can actually die. But otherwise you're a floating fortress that obliterates everything easily.

[GulvkluderGuld]

If 5+ ships focus you plus you get CV dropped, your noob team gets obliterated around you in 5 mins, yes then you can actually die. But otherwise you're a floating fortress that obliterates everything easily.

 

Fixed it for you ;)

[robihr]

 

Why bother with BBs that have enough AA to go solo and be safe? Why bother with the stress of managing 8 squads - which is TBH about 4x harder than anything else in this game, and I played every class extensively.

 

i know.. that was one of the reasons i stopped playing ijn cv, too many squads out and you cant concentrate on anything for more then few seconds.. and if you try to multitask and accidentally leave one of your squads unattended it gets obliterated by some random kutuzov passing by 6-7km away from your squadron...

[ghostbuster_]

Since 5.5 i like my monty more than my yamato. And with the new buff, it will be much better and there will be no gap between yamato and monty anymore. You can grind for both. They are both good ships.

[Namolis]

Yes. Currently, they are. In my opinion (which, admittedly, is partly based on what I see from other players):

 

Yamato >> Montana

Maybe just > after the patch. Monty only gets +0.1 sigma though, up to 1.9, same as Iowa. Disappointed in that, was hoping for a buff up to 2.0 (which, bizarrely, NC is getting, along with better turret arcs. NC will be such a beast!). We'll see.

 

I wouldn't recommend either, though, because battleships above T8 have a rough time.

 

Hakuryu > Midway

Was the other way around until they removed Midways second torpedo bomber. Midway is still the second best ship in the game though.

 

Zao > Des Moines

A well played Des Moines is no slouch, but Zao is just so amaaaaaaazing... @_@

 

Shimakaze >=(?) Gearing

OK, I know you didn't really want to hear about "playstyle", but these two are really too different to make a blatant statement. If you must have a one word answer from me, I would probably advice you "Shimakaze", just because it's less of a situational ship. Shima is scary to almost all ships, and will be useful pretty much all the time as fleet support and super-alpha torpedo killer. Gearing is scary to fewer ships and only in certain circumstances, so you need to work for your food, and sometimes you sail around empty for a long time. Then again, if the two ever meet 1v1, Gearing owns the Shima hard.

[ghostbuster_]

Everyone say yamato>montana. Why is that? They have almost the same heal ability, after the patch 5.5, you can actually punch 30k with montana to a yamato from its bow, montana have 1 extra turrent which is a huge plus at killin CAs, yamato has ridiculous overpens which montana doesnt has and montana has much better AA. Ok yamato has bigger guns so its more likely to damage angled enemies. But its not that dramatic after 5.5 imo. They are equal and well balanced.

[Namolis]

Everyone say yamato>montana. Why is that? They have almost the same heal ability, after the patch 5.5, you can actually punch 30k with montana to a yamato from its bow, montana have 1 extra turrent which is a huge plus at killin CAs, yamato has ridiculous overpens which montana doesnt has and montana has much better AA. Ok yamato has bigger guns so its more likely to damage angled enemies. But its not that dramatic after 5.5 imo. They are equal and well balanced.

 

I'm not aware of any mechanics changes to either one in 0.5.5. Do you have a source for that?

 

You could always punish a seemingly heavily angled Yama if you hit the right spot just under #1 turret, where the internal citadel armor slopes inward (and the bow does too, so the 32mm outer "armor" won't auto-bounce you). Won't work if the Yama is perfectly angled, but many wants to angle just enough to get their back turret into the action.

 

It's also the fact that Montana is just a bad ship in general - it has 19mm (!) of deck armor (even if the actual design was 57mm), so it won't bounce AP from any BB and HE will do massive damage and set fires. And it can't turn, so it dies to torps (has no torp belt either). And the AA gets knocked out by HE.

 

The problem has always been that the guns need to be close to be good, but the ship is just too sluggish go in and brawl. Hopefully, the improved sigma will make it work better at a distance where it can survive.

[ghostbuster_]

 

I'm not aware of any mechanics changes to either one in 0.5.5. Do you have a source for that?

 

You could always punish a seemingly heavily angled Yama if you hit the right spot just under #1 turret, where the internal citadel armor slopes inward (and the bow does too, so the 32mm outer "armor" won't auto-bounce you). Won't work if the Yama is perfectly angled, but many wants to angle just enough to get their back turret into the action.

 

It's also the fact that Montana is just a bad ship in general - it has 19mm (!) of deck armor (even if the actual design was 57mm), so it won't bounce AP from any BB and HE will do massive damage and set fires. And it can't turn, so it dies to torps (has no torp belt either). And the AA gets knocked out by HE.

 

The problem has always been that the guns need to be close to be good, but the ship is just too sluggish go in and brawl. Hopefully, the improved sigma will make it work better at a distance where it can survive.

I dont have any source its onlt what i feel since 5.5. I also heard this from many good players. Yes you could punish yamato but it happens more often after the patch. I dont remember hitting that many citadels with montana to a yamato from its bow. The only issue is torpedo belt you are right about it. But 1 extra turrent and no ridiculous over pens make that ship good. And every ship loses AA to HE shells but that doesnt change that montana has much better AA compare to yamato. There is no need to say "yamato>montana" they have both good and bad sides.  Both have different playstyles. Brawl with montana and with %95 chance you will die really fast.

[_GrimLock__]

Des moines vs zao its pretty win for zao 80% of time.Long range des moines doesnt stand a chance if they get close enough prepare your torps

 

[T_H_0_R]

Des moines vs zao its pretty win for zao 80% of time.Long range des moines doesnt stand a chance if they get close enough prepare your torps

 

 

Up close Zao doesn't stand a chance i.e. would die if shows broadside to launch torps. If trying to engage Zao from long range that its your own fault for sinking. If you instead try to use your concealment to get close, then it is a whole another ball game. For Zao to exploit its range advantage someone should be spotting Des Moines. With max concealment and Des having radar - that is a situational thing too.

 

In general, Zao is the best all around cruiser. One on one, it is a different story.

[IamTroublemaker]

And especially why bother when every patch you'll just get nerfed again? I've long since moved on to BBs mainly, because you're just god. DDs cant hurt you if you are smart. Cruisers get oneshot. Fire simply gets repaired. Most CVs are too bad to properly drop nowadays. I mean, if you're a CV player like me, you barely ever take serious damage from a CV drop just because you know how to counter it. If 5+ ships focus you plus you get CV dropped, yes then you can actually die. But otherwise you're a floating fortress that obliterates everything easily.

 

So much exaggeration...

 

And this is coming from a player who has more cruiser than battleship games.

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

Benson is still the most OP ship, long needed a nerf

[Syrchalis]

 

So much exaggeration...

 

And this is coming from a player who has more cruiser than battleship games.

 

Come play with me and watch me destroy fleets in my BBs. If you can play them they are ridiculous.

[ghostbuster_]

 

Come play with me and watch me destroy fleets in my BBs. If you can play them they are ridiculous.

Every ship is good if you can play them. But this is just exaggeration, i agree with trouble.

 "Destroy fleets" lol! everything is pink in dreams, right?

[Syrchalis]

I can't count it on one hand how often I engaged 4 ships with my Tirpitz alone and killed all of them.

 

There is no exaggeration here. Play some Hiryu (a CV that has no access to T7 planes and faces the most ridiculous AA) and then play some Kongo or Amagi or whatever BB and tell me where you felt more useful.

 

As for the T10 thing - Yamato beats Montana because Yamato is better against Montana than vice versa. Montana is just better at killing anything else, because Yamato overpens like crazy. In other words, Yamato is an expert at killing Montanas, that's why it feels superior.

[ghostbuster_]

I can't count it on one hand how often I engaged 4 ships with my Tirpitz alone and killed all of them.

 

There is no exaggeration here. Play some Hiryu (a CV that has no access to T7 planes and faces the most ridiculous AA) and then play some Kongo or Amagi or whatever BB and tell me where you felt more useful.

 

As for the T10 thing - Yamato beats Montana because Yamato is better against Montana than vice versa. Montana is just better at killing anything else, because Yamato overpens like crazy. In other words, Yamato is an expert at killing Montanas, that's why it feels superior.

I had the same situation with my BBs but also with other ships. I cant remember how many times i killed 3-4 ships with my murmansk alone. So does that make murmansk god of the seas? If you give example with tier 8 BB than compare with shokaku. And imagine how easy shokaku kills your tirpitz. 

[SirLloydHigginsBoomBoom]

Hi thanks for the replies.

 

I am a platinum division Starcraft 2 player so managing any amount of airplanes will be a piece of cake for me (my APM peaks about 200 in battle), and so if the Hakaryu is superior then Hakaryu it is.

 

Having said that I am curious why is it that you barely see CVs in Tier X games? 

[Ictogan]

Hi thanks for the replies.

 

I am a platinum division Starcraft 2 player so managing any amount of airplanes will be a piece of cake for me (my APM peaks about 200 in battle), and so if the Hakaryu is superior then Hakaryu it is.

 

Having said that I am curious why is it that you barely see CVs in Tier X games? 

 

Because CVs are constantly getting nerfed. Just look at what 0.5.6 will bring, buffed AA for pretty much all high tier ships.

[SirLloydHigginsBoomBoom]

 

Because CVs are constantly getting nerfed. Just look at what 0.5.6 will bring, buffed AA for pretty much all high tier ships.

 

Is it like Arty was in WoT? Everyone complains about them until they realise they are impossible to balance and then nerf them into oblivion?