Cheating and Illegal Modifications

[mtm78]

When I look at some of those hacks on youtube, I just makes me cringe.

 

Which one's? The one's you just been explained aren't 'hacks' or 'cheats' but some ........ who doesn't understand anything from both game mechanics nor the server client architecture?

 

Stop drinking the koolaid. 

 

 

[ThinderChief]

 

toidi

 

When I look at some of those hacks on youtube, I just makes me cringe.

How can people play like that I will not understand. I cannot make sense of things, hell I even dislike most GUI mods for wot and wows. Everything I liked eventually made it into the game.

 

 

That's precisely why i do not feel the need to use mods, and ultimately let the trolling and postspamming  go on, it just add to the clarity of the patterns one can see repeating themselves from a forum  to the other one...

 

Oh, there is one good reason why some would use cheat, looks like genius with stats from hell and gain notoriety that otherwise they wouldn't have.

 

 

[mtm78]

That's precisely why i do not feel the need to use mods, and ultimately let the trolling and postspamming  go on, it just add to the clarity of the patterns one can see repeating themselves from a forum  to the other one...

 

Oh, there is one good reason why some would use cheat, looks like genius with stats from hell and gain notoriety that otherwise they wouldn't have.

 

 

Blahblah go use CheatEngine to buy yourself some new ships man, make a video off it and post it online. When you do I will eat my worn sock ok? And please learn how damage saturation works. Ow wait, you can only post libel and never go into actual facts because if you did you for once had to admit you're wrong and you don't understand even the basics of what you keep rambling on about. 

 

@OP

Ignore ThinderChief, he has no idea what hes talking about. IFHE is a must on Akizuki now more than ever. Your only way do deal damage to tier 8-10 ships is with IFHE. Your torps are good, but not nearly enough to carry you. The AP is not reliable enough either. Akizuki can 1v1 any DD in the game with ease, but it needs 2 conditions: IFHE and being at reasonable close range. Now that SF is gone, scouting and DD brawling has become the main role of Aki (despite the bad speed and agility) and without IFHE you are completely useless against tier 8-10 DDs unless they show you a perfect broadside.

 

[ShinGetsu]

I was about to post last Yuro funtage where he eat around 15 torpedoes in his GK but survive thanks to damage saturation, but I can't find it anymore...

 

Welp, this one will do.

 

But I guess, for someone who doesn't know ingame mechanics, it's a "god mode cheat"...

[mtm78]

But I guess, for someone who doesn't know ingame mechanics, it's a "god mode cheat"...

 

Sad part is he seems to actually believe his own bs. 

[SV_Kompresor]

Of course there are cheats, but they're so insignificant and useless that they have little or no effect on the game. Also none of you have ever posted any actual visual evidence that would show a hack (and the old "I don't record replays" excuse doesn't work anymore), which means the only reason you didn't post any is because there isn't any. 99% of the time, the accusers are either just too incompetent or simply don't know game mechanics, like mtm and several others already pointed out.

[ThinderChief]

Of course there are cheats, but they're so insignificant and useless that they have little or no effect on the game. Also none of you have ever posted any actual visual evidence that would show a hack (and the old "I don't record replays" excuse doesn't work anymore), which means the only reason you didn't post any is because there isn't any. 99% of the time, the accusers are either just too incompetent or simply don't know game mechanics, like mtm and several others already pointed out.

 

You still CANT rule out the possibility that there ARE cheats used in this game with enough significance for W.G officials to think that it was necessary to post this topic in the first place, i invite you to have a look at the first post.

 

I hardly see why people keep trying to minimise the impact of cheat or even deny their existence, as i pointed out, unless one is aware for the reason of developing ways to detect them or for using them, there is no way one can really know if they are used and what they really are, W.G are not going to give away details allowing to write cheats are they?

 

So the relevance of this topic should be taken very seriously.

[mtm78]

You still CANT rule out the possibility that there ARE cheats used in this game with enough significance for W.G officials to think that it was necessary to post this topic in the first place, i invite you to have a look at the first post.

 

1. ->

 

Of course there are cheats, but they're so insignificant and useless that they have little or no effect on the game.

 

I hardly see why people keep trying to minimise the impact of cheat or even deny their existence, as i pointed out, unless one is aware for the reason of developing ways to detect them or for using them, there is no way one can really know if they are used and what they really are, W.G are not going to give away details allowing to write cheats are they?

 

2. ->

 

Omg posting the damage saturation video and proclaiming it's a 'cheat' \

 

And everyone can try using CheatEngine to modify in memory data ffs.... now go and try buying something with those credits you ..... 

 

If anyone had a doubt still, this guy doesn't understand anything from how this game works. Let's help him a bit with #2..... 

 

1. The game has memory locations which hold local data like 'credits' 

2. You can use CheatEngine to scan through process memory locations for values.

3. When you find the location of the value you can EDIT the value.

4. But this is an online game meaning you can edit it to whatever you want but it doesn't change the amount of credits the server has associated to your account. So try buying something with them

 

 

So the relevance of this topic should be taken very seriously.

 

3. -> The relevancy of this thread is not to post nonsense, or to spread FUD, nor is it here to showcase stagnant ignorance. The relevancy of this thread would be better served if those ignorant about mechanics or programming models would actually take the knowledge handed to them and learn from it. 

[SV_Kompresor]

 

You still CANT rule out the possibility that there ARE cheats used in this game with enough significance

 

 

Well so far I haven't met a single player which I could accuse of hacking or cheating and be sure about it. I've met a bunch of exploiters but no relevant cheaters, so obviously cheats aren't that significant.

[ThinderChief]

 

Well so far I haven't met a single player which I could accuse of hacking or cheating and be sure about it. I've met a bunch of exploiters but no relevant cheaters, so obviously cheats aren't that significant.

 

It's not what W.G officials posting this thread and the weird inststence of some to try to deny their existence in all forums where people can mention them suggest, does it?

 

Again, you can't know when people are using cheats, now, if you search well for evidence of their existence there are plenty of them online, but you CANT prove it on your own unless you really want to, that is by getting one yourself and recording a video on how to use them and how they work, as some guys have done in both WoT and this game.

 

Plus again, i have said previously that myself had no evidences, basically not have been trying to get one, and thaught that they were unnecessary in this game because we have all the tools we need to perform well as it is.

 

Having said that, some variation patterns in the performances of some might suggest that they might use cheats if not legal mods, simply because they occur when a major update messes with them.

 

I should know, this is exactly what happened to me when using the legal OMC ModPack in WoT, simply because you get use to a set up and once a sudden have to re-adapt to the original one, which is not always straightforward, in the case of an illegal mod the difference will be even more noticeable because of the advantage that the cheaters would get by using them.

 

 

[Ferry_25]

The debate is still raging on! I like that. My opinion: like I mentioned before. I think it's naive to assume there are no cheats. They're in every game. Furthermore it's IMO a matter of POV to consider something a cheat or an aid. From what I've seen in the YT movies, some sort of aimassist would be a huge aid in my case (being bad with numbers/ calculating). Same as the colorblind mode for those relevant players.

Now, I'm not whining to implement an aimassist here. Just my POV about it. About "illegal cheats" the main problem is proving it. Other than putting yourself online, demonstrating it there's really nothing much WG could do from a legal POV. They have no right to poke into my (or your) computer to see if I have any illegal software in my client. Likewise I don't have any right to hack the server to give myself 1 billion gold f.e. My common sense is telling me that the likelihood of hacking the WG server is very low. No offense but a serious hacker wouldn't risk legal prosecution by hacking a silly game. So I think there are "cheaters" but I don't care. I think people don't get really far much better by it. And there's really not much that can be done about it. Other than suspecting someone by sudden unexplainable rise in stats. And even then they should be careful. F.e. a friend spent an entire day in WOW(arcraft) walking the same parcours over and over with his character to gain resources. It wouldn't be my idea of fun to do but nothing illegal about that. Yet he got banned for cheating!

[ThinderChief]

some sort of aimassist would be a huge aid in my case (being bad with numbers/ calculating). Same as the colorblind mode for those relevant players.

 

I guarany you that if you train your eye instead of asking your brain to conpute numbers you barely take notice of when the playing get hot, you will fast forget your issue with aiming at maneuvring targets if you have any.

 

 

  They have no right to poke into my (or your) computer to see if I have any illegal software in my client.

 

They don't need to, the game client anticheat can "tell" the server if there is any form of cheat installed, simply because as opposed to what some might want us to believe, cheats have to have at least part of themselves in the client client forlder, if not all depending on their complexity, to interfer with the files.

 

They will in any case need the address of the folders, that's where this little piece of policing software can detect them, not within your all PC and technically it's no more of an intrusive program than an antivirus plus it legaly remains W.G property.

 

 Other than suspecting someone by sudden unexplainable rise in stats.

 

You got this one in reverse mode, when you use a legal mod, it works until the next update, then when it doesn't it takes time to adapt back to the original game, and for mod developers to write a new release, so your stats (my case anyway when using OMC ModPack in WoT) were naturally affected by the updates, not by getting better but worsening with them.

[Zerstoeroer]

 

Well so far I haven't met a single player which I could accuse of hacking or cheating and be sure about it. I've met a bunch of exploiters but no relevant cheaters, so obviously cheats aren't that significant.

 

So please tell me: why is it that those players who deal consistently high damage on me or even do devastating strikes on my cruiser usually have a WTR between 700 and 900 with below average damage? it's not the above average players or even unicums.

Sorry to say this, but if someone with such bad stats hits like every salvoe well all of a sudden, he is most likely using something to achieve that.

And since I noticed this quite some time ago, I actually made the effort to check the stats of those who hit that well. Mostly the above mentioned kind of clown who then goes on to completely fail due to zero map awareness. 

 

Just today I can name you two people with such stats. One of them dealth super consistent high damage, the other one-shot me in my Roon (no detonation) from 19km, which basically never happens to me. The latter has a WTR of 759, which pretty much rules out any form of skill. Luck? I doubt it. I'd actually bet money on him using lead assist.

 

There is a problem. It's not dramatic, but prevalent enough that action is needed in my opinion.

[Taliesn]

 

So please tell me: why is it that those players who deal consistently high damage on me or even do devastating strikes on my cruiser usually have a WTR between 700 and 900 with below average damage? it's not the above average players or even unicums.

Sorry to say this, but if someone with such bad stats hits like every salvoe well all of a sudden, he is most likely using something to achieve that.

And since I noticed this quite some time ago, I actually made the effort to check the stats of those who hit that well. Mostly the above mentioned kind of unskilled clown who then goes on the completely fail due to zero map awareness. 

 

Just today I can name you two people with such stats. One of them dealth super consistent high damage, the other one-shot me in my Roon (no detonation) from 19km, which basically never happens to me. The latter has a WTR of 759, which pretty much rules out any form of skill. Luck? My [edited]. I guarantee you that he used lead assist.

 

You are not proving anything, just that someone with poor to average WTR can sometimes deal heavy damage. Go figure.

Likeliest explanation is he has good aiming but poor map awareness and/or decision making.

 

I once one-shot a New Mexico with my Colorado from 18km with the spotting aircraft. One salvo of 3 citadels and 3 other hits, 48k damage and bam, to the bottom. Fair play to the guy, he didn't claim cheat. Thing is, it is a matter of probability and is bound to happen when you play the game. And eventually you are going to be at the other end of that shot too.

 

On the other hand, yesterday I had an Akatsuki player crying foul because I spotted and killed him in his smoke. With my Chapayev...

 

[mtm78]

I guarantee you that he used lead assist.

 

Don't sail in straight lines. Even a lead assist can't predict where you will be when their shells land if you use wasd.exe. 

[Ferry_25]

They don't need to, the game client anticheat can "tell" the server if there is any form of cheat installed, simply because as opposed to what some might want us to believe, cheats have to have at least part of themselves in the client client forlder, if not all depending on their complexity, to interfer with the files.

 

 

 

They will in any case need the address of the folders, that's where this little piece of policing software can detect them, not within your all PC and technically it's no more of an intrusive program than an antivirus plus it legaly remains W.G property.

 

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. AFAIK the basis of this game is information exchange. Basically like the boardgame "Battleships." When I'm shooting @ someone my client is transmitting that info to the server: "Ferry's shooting @ those coordinates." The server, after St RNG-us' process then relays that to the enemy client who in turn processes that info whether or not it's a hit. I've seen this game as a LAN party with a server in the middle. All clients "know" all the enemy positions etc and "tell" you when you have "the right to know." (aka spotted them). So in theory I could make a hack which is giving me all the info straight away and telling me where to go to dodge. At least this is my world view which is very limited cause I don't know much about IT/ programming. So correct me if I'm wrong there.

 

However: everything on my computer is my property. I could (provided I was able to do so) paint all my ships pink and have lovely half naked women baking in the sun on my deck, diving in the ocean and elegantly climb on board my ships via the anchor shackles. WTF, getting a good idea while typing in a response!.......... ASLAIN!!!!!! . But only I would see that. Same as with the swastika flags etc.  Heck even if I'd put my porn stash in the client directories. That's all none of WG's business. IMO still the only thing they can do is give the program keys to approved mod makers. And without those keys make the client unstable. Or note my odd behavior of getting 200k battles with 0 return damage in my exaggerated cheat example.

 

Edit: to clarify with "illegal" I mean by law illegal. Not necessarily "illegal" though "house rules" of WG. Like card counting is not illegal by law but unwanted by casino's. But if I'd be a card counter a casino could never take legal actions against me. Only throw me out of the door. Now hacking into the server and euthanize RNG-us for my particular ships would be illegal. And I'm not saying they can't poke into my client's directories (or my whole PC for that matter). But they'd have nothing to gain from that. If I'd get an E-mail with "we've seen this and this illegal mod in your client, you're banned." They could face legal charges.

[mtm78]

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. AFAIK the basis of this game is information exchange. Basically like the boardgame "Battleships." When I'm shooting @ someone my client is transmitting that info to the server: "Ferry's shooting @ those coordinates." The server, after St RNG-us' process then relays that to the enemy client who in turn processes that info whether or not it's a hit. I've seen this game as a LAN party with a server in the middle. All clients "know" all the enemy positions etc and "tell" you when you have "the right to know." (aka spotted them). So in theory I could make a hack which is giving me all the info straight away and telling me where to go to dodge. At least this is my world view which is very limited cause I don't know much about IT/ programming. So correct me if I'm wrong there.

 

You're asking him? Really? 

 

He doesn't understand jack all about anything ffs. His whole ffin claim that cheats only work when in the same folder is bs to start with 

 

Ferry_25, on 03 April 2017 - 04:52 PM, said:

The server, after St RNG-us' process then relays that to the enemy client who in turn processes that info whether or not it's a hit. 

 

No, the client doesn't calculate anything, it's basically just a render engine. Shell trajectory and impact determination / damage calculations are all entirely server side / server side authoritative. 

[SV_Kompresor]

 

So please tell me: why is it that those players who deal consistently high damage on me or even do devastating strikes on my cruiser usually have a WTR between 700 and 900 with below average damage? it's not the above average players or even unicums.

Sorry to say this, but if someone with such bad stats hits like every salvoe well all of a sudden, he is most likely using something to achieve that.

And since I noticed this quite some time ago, I actually made the effort to check the stats of those who hit that well. Mostly the above mentioned kind of clown who then goes on to completely fail due to zero map awareness. 

 

Just today I can name you two people with such stats. One of them dealth super consistent high damage, the other one-shot me in my Roon (no detonation) from 19km, which basically never happens to me. The latter has a WTR of 759, which pretty much rules out any form of skill. Luck? I doubt it. I'd actually bet money on him using lead assist.

 

There is a problem. It's not dramatic, but prevalent enough that action is needed in my opinion.

 

They may not have skill but they sure as hell do have luck. You've played one match against each of these players and because they were able to damage you badly (possibly because of your own mistake) you can accuse them of cheating? By using your logic (that they're using some sort of a cheat (that actually works)) their WTR would actually be a lot higher. You simply can't do well all the time and have a low WTR, which proves that they weren't hacking. At least when using your logic. If on the other hand you played a hundred battles against each of these players (ignoring their WTR) and they were still be able to delete you every time in one salvo without you making a single mistake, then yes, you could accuse them of cheating.

Also by your logic unicums need to constantly have good games. Since I am one (I'm asumming purple is a unicum) means that if I have a single bad game, I must be hacking because I simply shouldn't be able to have a bad game.

[ThinderChief]

Also by your logic unicums need to constantly have good games. Since I am one (I'm asumming purple is a unicum) means that if I have a single bad game, I must be hacking because I simply shouldn't be able to have a bad game.

 

Purple, Unicum, the colour i got on a good day, like today for my personal rating, although i struggle with win rate and damage.

 

When it comes to having bad days, i know what you're talking about since they were the majority of my days (and still are depending on the ship i play) and of course are not related to using cheats.

 

It's purely about conjectural variation and the way such freak events occurs, sometimes i wonder HOW a ship would delete me in one salvo when i'm undetected or how my shells seems to cause no damage even when fired at point blank range but in WoW those doesn't seem to occur as often and systematically than in WoT, which is the primary reason why i vaccated over here, the game was so rotten with cheats it fast became unplayable at some point.

 

 

[Odo_Toothless]

 

Don't sail in straight lines. Even a lead assist can't predict where you will be when their shells land if you use wasd.exe. 

 

It's not so easy. Playing at least middle tier DD with bots (when their auto aim accuracy is not nerfed) shows how hard they can hit even when you manuveuring all the time. Most people can't do that past some distance.

 

The most cheating option in auto aimbots is that they show your actual speed, making especially long shooting much easier. How many times we shoot at someone realizing he is only going half a speed and there is not any sign of it becouse his smoke is often invisiblem or hard to determine when angled.

 

I bet with aimbot help at least half of my wrong salvos would be in target.

[mtm78]

The most cheating option in auto aimbots is that they show your actual speed, making especially long shooting much easier. How many times we shoot at someone realizing he is only going half a speed and there is not any sign of it becouse his smoke is often invisiblem or hard to determine when angled.

 

I bet with aimbot help at least half of my wrong salvos would be in target.

 

Engine smoke should indicate speed setting, but you're right it's not always easy and not everyone checks it. But even while lead assist in the game  ( before WG declared it illegal ) you could throw off people using it quite easilly. 

 

Ofc, sometimes you get deleted anyway, perhaps they just predicted your turn correctly, or they actually couldn't aim and would have missed completely if you sailed straight. What you say is right though, the biggest 'aid' that indicator mod gave was showcasing speed. You can judge turns from either minimap or alt_hud / navigator mod ( which is legal btw ).

 

It's not so easy. Playing at least middle tier DD with bots (when their auto aim accuracy is not nerfed) shows how hard they can hit even when you manuveuring all the time. Most people can't do that past some distance.

 

Depends on distance, but yeah the one thing the AI is actually not THAT shabby in is aiming

[Quazie]

OK mister Alpha Tester..

 

You missed my point, Why do the testers all jump striaght in defending WG, acting like GODS of programming that know everything.

 

Are you infact a programmer?

Do you have data on exactly what is or isn't being sent?

Or are you just taking WG's word for it, there is many an organisation out there that have cried can't be hacked including government and military only to find they were wrong.

Where is the information from WG on why these hacks can't work, are they so worried that their detection system is so weak that they can't share some information.

Why is it that they themselves are not fight their corner.

 

Don't get me wrong I love the game, most battles are fine. I come across good players all the time and I don't shout cheat, I commend them.

But you come across that one thing rarely that makes you question it?

The moment you mention it, you are a crap player, or he is just a good player why shout cheat.

The fact that cheats exist is a reality, how effective they are is another matter.

 

The thing that sucks is you constant attitude that it can't be done without providing any real evidence to support that theory, and they way it looks now man is your on the payrole!

No names needed, you know who I mean..

 

Another comment was "I don't record" was a lame excuse, let me tell you friend, if I had I would have posted it and told you watch and weep, then swivel baby.

[mtm78]

Are you infact a programmer?

 

Well I studied application development so I guess that's a yes.

 

The fact that cheats exist is a reality, how effective they are is another matter.

 

Yes there is ONE cheat that I know which bugs the heck out of me. Luckily it's been behind a paywall since WG killed the freely available one ( people will know what I am talking about, if not don't ask as promoting actual cheats is not the intent of this thread ). 

 

All the rest, especially those posted here, are just so utterly ridiculous it's laughable that someone can keep crying over them. Damage saturation is a well known game mechanic, the video with the 'GOD MODE' cheat is a hoax based on that ( I'll give you the proof below, again btw ). The video posted about CheatEngine 'hacking' the credit amount is hilarious as well because of the same reason.

 

Both those 'values' ( damage calculations AND credits tied to your account ) are server authoritative. You can simply not 'cheat' in that way, period. It's not possible, there is no discussion possible either on whether or not it's not possible because it simply isn't.

 

CheatEngine is 'great' for those wanting to cheat in a single player game, or badly designed multiplayer game. But it is just a memory modification, or active script manipulating local memory locations. It doesn't 'hack' server authoritative values for you. 

 

If you're wondering why I am using the term 'server authoritative game' so often, google it, it might give you some insights on why WG uses the same engine for all their games ( one which uses this exact programming model ). 

[Blue_Bug]

OK mister Alpha Tester..

 

You missed my point, Why do the testers all jump striaght in defending WG, acting like GODS of programming that know everything.

 

Are you infact a programmer?

Do you have data on exactly what is or isn't being sent?

Or are you just taking WG's word for it, there is many an organisation out there that have cried can't be hacked including government and military only to find they were wrong.

Where is the information from WG on why these hacks can't work, are they so worried that their detection system is so weak that they can't share some information.

Why is it that they themselves are not fight their corner.

 

Don't get me wrong I love the game, most battles are fine. I come across good players all the time and I don't shout cheat, I commend them.

But you come across that one thing rarely that makes you question it?

The moment you mention it, you are a crap player, or he is just a good player why shout cheat.

The fact that cheats exist is a reality, how effective they are is another matter.

 

The thing that sucks is you constant attitude that it can't be done without providing any real evidence to support that theory, and they way it looks now man is your on the payrole!

No names needed, you know who I mean..

 

Another comment was "I don't record" was a lame excuse, let me tell you friend, if I had I would have posted it and told you watch and weep, then swivel baby.

 

First , WG never stated that they can't be hacked. They just said that all calculation are made serverside. As many stated, when you are capable to hack the WG server, why would you risk a jail sentence  for hacking a game instead for something more profitable.Ofcourse

 

If we look at the known cheats (the ones I know the excistence of), they have in common that they work with an overlay on the screen.Why would you make a cheat that way, instead of an more easier methode. As far as I know there are no cheats available who gives the position of all enemy ships.   This gives an indication that all calculations are indeed made serverside.  Besides that WG is an large employer. Many people left the company , and as in many companies , some left in anger. If WG would lie about the fact that the calculations were made server side we would have heard the rumors about it.

 

Ofcourse the above depends on what you call a cheat. There are players that say that every mod , that does more as re-skin you ship, is a cheat. If you define a cheat that way, then there are many cheats around. 

 

Edit 1: The reason that WG doesn't share info about their detection system is obvious. It is very common not to share any details about that, cause everything you share can be used to make a cheat that might avoid the detection system. That this topic excist proves that there are cheats (or unwanted modifications) around and that WG recognices the excistence of it.

 

[mtm78]

BigWorld is a commercial engine, you don't need a angry ex employees. Up to 2015 there even was an indie version available. There is a lot of documentation around.