[Suggestion] Pensacola tech rework

[T_H_0_R]

Yeah sorry the pic just didn't load for me so I didn't realise there were two. Also T_H_0_R whatever is in your spoiler I can't see, although I've been on Navsource enough to know what you're referring to

 

On a slight tangent, the New Orleans could use a bit of love too, have the A hull as an actual early war fit rather than the weird mess we have that's basically an inaccurate 1944 hull with most of the AA stripped away or ahistorical.

 

Just checked and both pictures are showing fine for me. In any case, here are links again to check what / if is wrong with them:

 

http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/024/0402450.jpg

 

"Starboard side view while off Mare Island after completion of repairs. Photo taken on 11 July 1945."

 

http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/024/0402426.jpg

 

"USS Pensacola (CA 24) Off the Mare Island Navy Yard, California, 29 June 1945."

 

 

- Fully agree on the NO thing. Early Hull A is a mess, nothing like early Pensacola Hull A that actually resembles her early look. On the same note, it looks as if they botched Hipper's new Hull C. No AA guns on B and C turrets with a bunch of non historical guns on the stern behind the D turret...

 

 

 

Nice one. I would add to move it to tier 6 (fits better with other ships introduction time to service more or less, than Cleveland that would be alternative at tier 8 with shell flight time buff) and as for tier 7? WG can put http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_northampton_class_cruisers.html  or http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_portland_class_cruisers.html Both classes of CAs(slight upgrades of Pensacola class with 9 203mm) lie between Pensacola and New Orleans. Ship design progression feels better that way(won't happen because WG is bringing USS Indianapolis a Portland class CA as premium :/)

 

Like Trainspite said - at T6 she would meet T4. Even against T6 it can be seal clubbing but against T5 in skilled hands Pensacola is a nightmare if sailed properly. God knows how many Omahas I've sent to bottom, together with Koenigsbergs. Them guns are pure sex, especially vs. low armored targets. A reason why USN AP is often called "lol-pen". I've cit-penned Yorck with NO from 11 km with him sailing straight away from me - 2 cits and he went swimming. It was hard to me to explain to him what happened since I was blown away such a thing was possible in-game. 

[VC381]

Like Trainspite said - at T6 she would meet T4. Even against T6 it can be seal clubbing but against T5 in skilled hands Pensacola is a nightmare if sailed properly. God knows how many Omahas I've sent to bottom, together with Koenigsbergs. Them guns are pure sex, especially vs. low armored targets. A reason why USN AP is often called "lol-pen". I've cit-penned Yorck with NO from 11 km with him sailing straight away from me - 2 cits and he went swimming. It was hard to me to explain to him what happened since I was blown away such a thing was possible in-game. 

 

Yup, a Pensacola that's top tier is a cruiser serial killer like no other. Multiple citadels at almost any range on broadside T5 and T6 ships, the kind of 12k+ damage salvos BBs pray to RNJesus for, and you get them reliably every 15 seconds.

[piritskenyer]

 

Nice one. I would add to move it to tier 6 (fits better with other ships introduction time to service more or less, than Cleveland that would be alternative at tier 8 with shell flight time buff) and as for tier 7? WG can put http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_northampton_class_cruisers.html  or http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_portland_class_cruisers.html Both classes of CAs(slight upgrades of Pensacola class with 9 203mm) lie between Pensacola and New Orleans. Ship design progression feels better that way(won't happen because WG is bringing USS Indianapolis a Portland class CA as premium :/)

 

Absolutely not. On T6 she would tear through everything she meets like a wrecking ball through a school bus: quickly, bloodily, and without breaking a sweat. She can handle T8 ships very well if not singled out, imagine if you never met T9's in a ship that could be the best T7 cruiser.

[piritskenyer]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is there a Pensacola preliminary with even more awkward gun layout?

[Trainspite]

 

Is there a Pensacola preliminary with even more awkward gun layout?

 

There are plenty of designs, most revolve around layouts of 1 Forward 2 Aft, 2F2A, 2F1A, but there are outliers, like these two: 

 

 

 

 

 

[piritskenyer]

For a T6 Pensacola preliminary the easiest choice would be either a 2F1A or a 2F2A design, although a 2F2A design may be a wee bit too strong. 

The interesting choice would be one of these rather awkward designs.

 

But we're getting sidetracked.

We are trying to balance Pepsi for T7 here, so keep that in mind

[piritskenyer]

In light of the discovery that Indianapolis is going to have 13.4km detection I've gone ahead and reduced Pensacola's detection to 13.2km.

[Trainspite]

It would be quite interesting to compare how Northampton & Pensacola compare if they both recieve a final C hull like this. Both would have their huge detection radiuses removed, but I wonder which one if any would perform better with that limitation removed.

 

Northampton is slightly better armoured, can fire 6 guns forward, and has better AA, while Pensacola has more hit points, an extra gun broadside, and should turn better than Northampton. I feel Pensacola may be able to use her superior maneuverability a bit more often.

 

 

[piritskenyer]

I'd say Northampton would be more of a bow-in brawler, while Pensacola could stick to her current get-out-from-under-the-shellfire role.

[T_H_0_R]

I'd say Northampton would be more of a bow-in brawler, while Pensacola could stick to her current get-out-from-under-the-shellfire role.

 

Curious to what the actual difference is between Northampton and Portland class? Indianapolis does have slightly better armor nose one, but the rest isn't much different from Pensa.

[piritskenyer]

 

Curious to what the actual difference is between Northampton and Portland class? Indianapolis does have slightly better armor nose one, but the rest isn't much different from Pensa.

 

AFAIK Portland and Indianapolis were built larger and heavier, purposefully as fleet flagships, while Northamptons were "just" typical CA's. Which is funny if you consider how much larger both Northampton and Portland classes were compared to Pensacola, and yet Pensacola was oftentime used as her CruDiv's flagship (or so I recall).

 

Armour-wise, frontally I don't think there's much difference between Indy and Pepsi, Indy has the better belt, but that seems to be it really. Indy's hangarspace is however much more vulnerable in my experience.

[VC381]

 

Curious to what the actual difference is between Northampton and Portland class? Indianapolis does have slightly better armor nose one, but the rest isn't much different from Pensa.

 

Since we don't have a Northampton in game I'm going to assume we're talking history. The two Portlands were essentially repeat Northamptons with minor improvements. The armor of Northampton is slightly worse, maximum belt thickness 3.75" against 5" for Portland and 4" for Pensacola. But the armor scheme for all three classes is in patches of different thicknesses so this maximum belt doesn't say much; most of the belt in the machinery area is 3" for all of them. The Northampton also shares the tall forward tripod mast and small aft tripod of Pensacola while Portland cleaned this up with a single more compact mast forward.

 

EDIT: The Northampton class was a bit of a sidegrade from Pensacola. The intention was to optimise layout and improve things like seakeeping and crew conditions but the "raw stats" that would matter in game were not significantly better. The ships came out nearly 1,000 tons below the treaty limit so the designers basically knew when drawing up Portland that they had that extra weight to play with, so they made improvements where they could.

 

Piritskenyer is not completely right about the flagship thing, the last three out of 6 Northampton class and the second Portland class (Indianapolis) were fitted as flagships so it's not a difference between the classes. This was done by extending the forecastle deck aft until almost reaching the catapults and filling this space with offices, ops rooms and accommodation for the flag officer and his staff. Look at the area either side of the forward funnel on Portland compared to Indy.

 

On the unlikely chance we get a Northampton in game she would be the worst of both worlds between Indianapolis and Pensacola, with the high sides of the former but the armor and detectability of the latter. The bow on brawling thing probably has more to do with the shell bouncing mechanics in game than the actual thicknesses of armor on the ships.

[lup3s]

Torpedoes on the Pensa? HELL YES

 

[piritskenyer]

Torpedoes on the Pensa? HELL YES

 

Don't expect miracles, those are slow, short, and removed early in the progression. But historically she had them.

[lup3s]

 

Don't expect miracles, those are slow, short, and removed early in the progression. But historically she had them.

 

short and slow doesn't really matter if you're hiding behind an island waiting for unsuspecting ships to float by

SURPRISE MOTHERF*****

[piritskenyer]

I like your style.

[lup3s]

I like your style.

 

when you're on 40 HP in a Mogami you can't really do anything else ;)

[basharran]

 

Don't expect miracles, those are slow, short, and removed early in the progression. But historically she had them.

 

So had all early BB's

 

Regardless, our beloved can of Pepsicola needs some love.

[Dampfboot]

If you guys love the Pensacola, good for you. With the tin can armor you are the primary target for all BBs because they know even one straggling AP shell completely off target can citadel it.

[piritskenyer]

If you guys love the Pensacola, good for you. With the tin can armor you are the primary target for all BBs because they know even one straggling AP shell completely off target can citadel it.

 

Yes, thank you for this very detailed and thourough overview. Not like that's not what happens with any cruiser that meets a 400+mm AP shell...

 

PS: That tin can armour is of the exact same thickness as that of the Myoko.