Somthing need's to be done

[elexier]

So the past few days I have REALLY REALLY been trying to improve my shooting with BB's.

 

 

Cruisers not real issue I can find my range and lead very quickly I don't need any help there. Fire a shot see where it lands adjust accordingly no issue.

 

Destroyers, Torps are REAL easy to hit with (Provided the target is oblivious)

 

Carriers, Again torps are easy enough to hit with where one decent spread can turn the tide of a flank and win you the fight

 

Battleships on the other hand......Perfect shot, perfect lead and RNG says NOPE7 of your 8 shells miss and the 8th hits and does no damage (This is broadside on.

 

 

An Example.

 

Was on that new map with the island north and south dead center where the carrier like to hide. Was in my ARP Haruna (Basically a Kongo).

 

3 Min into the battle Enemy carrier spotted by our carriers fighters, It's just out of my gun range so I pop my spotter plane slow down to 1/4 speed so I don't overshoot the mountain and keep a clear line of fire on the carrier.

 

First salvo, 1 shell hits rest straddle the target

Second salvo nothing hits

Third salvo nothing hits

 

THIS IS A STATIONARY TARGET.....

 

Fourth salvo I don't get to fire because an enemy DD has snuck through and is making a break for our carrier, Full power hard right to bring the guns in its general direction, 17km away he vanishes I fire blind........DETONATED. O.o

 

I can't hit a stationary ship the size of 4 football fields, But I can hit a DD going full tilt on a "snap shot" ?

 

To top it off Was shooting at a enemy Kongo in the same fight him broadside on to me, Me showing "just" enough of my side to get my rear guns to fire between his shots and then tucking my ships fat [edited]back in again, I get 6 hit on him doing not much, He holds one salvo back hits me in the side as i poke out my [edited]and takes 80% of my hp.

 

 

Now on the other hand yesterday I was reliably hitting targets at range with the same ship, But today I can't hit a thing.

 

Now if wargaming are going to insist on this kind of stupid dispersion could we PLEASE get the lead indicator back, And before people start crying about it let me remind everyone.

 

ALL Torps get it, From planes, DD's, Cruisers, Even battleships (Derpitz )

 

And it can be countered, You see a DD,plane you turn towards them. If you know theres a DD nearby you either turn away before you hear the beeping, or turn towards the rough area, Cruisers get the sonar, and you get the perk that increases torp range detection. And to make life difficult you just change speed occasionally, or change course slightly every 10-15 seconds. 

 

Now fore the aim assist for main guns, For DD's and cruisers it won't really change much, There rate of fire is high enough that after the first or second shot if your target has not changed speed or course there really is no reason to miss.

 

A BB on the other hand, If you know a BB is aiming in your direction do what you do now, Change speed/course, If you want a heads up there's the incoming fire alert - THERES A DIRECT COUNTER for it, Same as Torps (Can't help with the cruiser HE spam though )

 

I've had plenty of games tonight where if just one or two of my salvo's HIT the target I could have swung the game in my teams favor, Or at least given my team a fighting chance.

 

Final thought. This game is much more about where to be and who to shoot than being able to land the hits. But if you can't hit anything because of RNG (Or user error) Then your just a big fat pinata of points for the enemy team. Either remove the RNG of shot dispersion (And lower shell damage a little) Or give the lead indicator back and and remove the player error.

 

You still have to give an educated guess as to what the target is going to do, Is he going to turn, slow down, stop or keep sailing straight on.

 

I will stress again, MISSING A STATIONARY CARRIER WITH 3 SALVO's and having only a SINGLE shell hit for minor damage is just flat out wrong.

 

And I see the flip side too, I Detonated my first target from full hp yesterday, But it was point blank range with the Arkansa's Beta and all 12 guns (Cruiser tried to peekaboo round a mountain popped out to try and spot our DD and found me 3 km from him with everything pointed at him, He even said in chat after, "I popped out looking for a DD, It suddenly turned into a BB, brb need to change my underware" Witch got a few laughs.

 

I don't feel im a bad shot, But it's getting harder and harder to tell if its my error, RNG or the other player making a change at the last second.

[Xerkics]

BBs poor accuracy is their balancing factors because their guns can do so much damage. You are not supposed to shoot at DD if there are better targets, your escorts job is to kill DDs. IF you must hunt DDs usually i take 16 on a targeter if they are far and 12 if they are close with he you can do a lot of damage to DD like that on something like a kongo but ideally its better to stay away from them. Use a mod that improves your dispersion but ye sometimes the rng will troll you and you will hit all around your target. Its by design like this. Also low tier BB like kawachi tend to have atrocious accuracy even for bb.

 

P.S: quite often a  DD player wont expect BB to hit it so as long as you know how much lead to take and its going in a straight line  you can reliably kill it but you have to watch out for torps in the water.

[ColonelPete]

You were shooting at max range. The dispersion is bigger than the target.

[katie111]

I feel like this sometimes, other days I do just fine, alot of it in the mind I think although the dreaded RNG monster does exist i'm sure!

[Srle_Vigilante]

Go play world of tanks. When you done that you have the right to complain about RNG in this game.

[Jethro_Grey]

Simple solution: don't shoot at max range.

The initial shots yeah, but then get closer and you'll hit stuff.

[Aotearas]

At long range BB dispersion tends to be bigger than most targets you shoot at.

 

Typically you can only expect to get reliable hits until about two-thirds of your max range and even then unlucky RNG rolls can screw you over. Then again that is partly counteracted by the chance that a lucky RNG roll can cause massive damage salvos, so if your aim is on point, it usually balances out (unless it's one of those days when RNG hates your living guts and wants to see you squirm ... been there, done that, got salty).

 

Anything close to maximum range should be considered as potshots and lucky if you get a (good) hit, but don't expect it. That is why po.sitioning is so much more important in a BB since you need to put yourself at a spot where you can take shots at the enemy team within a range that you can hit (and simultanously minimize the volume from return fire)

[elexier]

Go play world of tanks. When you done that you have the right to complain about RNG in this game.

 

I am tier 9 in WoT in 3 different tree's. I Think I qualify to complain about RNG

[Lemasive]

The biggest problem with BBs is not that you miss alot of shots, most likley you are not taking what direction they move into consideration. But that BBS only function is to punish players that make mistakes and show their side to you, this is very situational and a good player will not give you that opportunity easily. For me I think the overpen damage should be increased and the Citadel damage lowered to balance the game abit. 

[Srle_Vigilante]

 

I am tier 9 in WoT in 3 different tree's. I Think I qualify to complain about RNG

 

I'm sorry, but i'm still failing to understand how this game's RNG can annoy you when you played that game 

I mean let's be serious if you gave accuracy to battleships (which were not even accurate in real life) everyone would just play battleships.

What you can do is just get closer to the enemy to make your shell dispersion smaller.

[HMS_Worcester]

The only BB I seem to have a consistent accuracy problem in is the Tirpitz. I don't know why, but out of all the BBs I play often, this is the only one I generally struggle to hit anything with. But I try not to play BBs at long range so most of the time these problems are negated.

 

[Ph3lan]

Hi elexier!

 

As others have already mentioned above, BBs are meant to be inaccurate at their maximum range. Their relative inaccuracy at higher ranges is the balancing factor that keeps their awesome firepower in check. In my experience with good shooting you can reliable hit and damage enemy ships at 70-80% of your maximum range with most BBs. I have been playing mostly BBs since the closed beta and never thought that dispersion is a huge problem. Of course there is the occasional infuriating salvo that misses completely, but then I also have the occasional "every shot hit the citadel somehow" salvo to make up for those. 

[Admiral_noodle]

The biggest problem with BBs is not that you miss alot of shots, most likley you are not taking what direction they move into consideration. But that BBS only function is to punish players that make mistakes and show their side to you, this is very situational and a good player will not give you that opportunity easily. For me I think the overpen damage should be increased and the Citadel damage lowered to balance the game abit. 

 

Except it's impossible not to show your side to a bb at some point. Especially if there are two of you setting up a crossfire. At some point cruisers have to turn. When they do... 

 

I am currently OP in BBs. Pls don't nerf

[Lemasive]

 

Except it's impossible not to show your side to a bb at some point. Especially if there are two of you setting up a crossfire. At some point cruisers have to turn. When they do... 

 

I am currently OP in BBs. Pls don't nerf

 

You are talking about random battles, I am think about later stage CW like battles.

[Ictogan]

 

You are talking about random battles, I am think about later stage CW like battles.

Even there is possible to force ships to show broadside by flanking with other ships, torping it to force maneuvers, attacking it with planes to force maneuvers, etc. Yes, all of these can be countered, but it depends on the situation. And BBs are the only thing that has any kind of armor or HP pool, so they are important as damage sponges for pushing. And they can force cruisers to stay at distance, because a cruiser closing in too much on battleships can get rekt easily quite often.

[Crysantos]

Hi elexier!

 

As others have already mentioned above, BBs are meant to be inaccurate at their maximum range. Their relative inaccuracy at higher ranges is the balancing factor that keeps their awesome firepower in check. In my experience with good shooting you can reliable hit and damage enemy ships at 70-80% of your maximum range with most BBs. I have been playing mostly BBs since the closed beta and never thought that dispersion is a huge problem. Of course there is the occasional infuriating salvo that misses completely, but then I also have the occasional "every shot hit the citadel somehow" salvo to make up for those. 

 

Well with the various changes to AP mechanics and the way BBs work right now I've basically stopped playing BBs and I know a lot of other longtime players did, too. The issue isn't "relative inaccuracy" - it's being completely unreliable when it comes to dealing damage. You either get minimum or maximum damage, relying on RNG more than anything else. Long range sniping is rewarded more due to the random plunging citadels you get than going close up and brawl, just to see your complete salvo miss at 4-8 kms.

 

Just my personal take on this, I completely understand why there has to be a certain dispersion and inaccuracy on BBs - but it's completely bonkers that you can deal more reliable AP damage with cruisers than with a BB.

[Takru]

 

Well with the various changes to AP mechanics and the way BBs work right now I've basically stopped playing BBs and I know a lot of other longtime players did, too. The issue isn't "relative inaccuracy" - it's being completely unreliable when it comes to dealing damage. You either get minimum or maximum damage, relying on RNG more than anything else. Long range sniping is rewarded more due to the random plunging citadels you get than going close up and brawl, just to see your complete salvo miss at 4-8 kms.

 

Just my personal take on this, I completely understand why there has to be a certain dispersion and inaccuracy on BBs - but it's completely bonkers that you can deal more reliable AP damage with cruisers than with a BB.

 

Which is why US BBs in particular will have their accuracy improved. Regarding the either-or comment, it's currently the same with USN T8+ DBs, at least that's how I feel about them.

[Sub_Eleven]

Your basicly complaining you don't hit every shell at max range. I think bb's are still top dog on pretty much every single statistic regarding things like damage done, experience gained, kill ratio and what not. Yes dispersion sucks, but so does getting blown up in one volley by said bb's. Deal with it.

[EsaTuunanen]

3 Min into the battle Enemy carrier spotted by our carriers fighters, It's just out of my gun range so I pop my spotter plane slow down to 1/4 speed so I don't overshoot the mountain and keep a clear line of fire on the carrier.

 

First salvo, 1 shell hits rest straddle the target

Second salvo nothing hits

Third salvo nothing hits

 

THIS IS A STATIONARY TARGET.....

BB's aren't supposed to hit reliably from max range.

And there are already enough of Balless Boats afraid of getting paint scratched hiding at their max range costing battles because unsupported cruisers get focused and demolished by enemy.

 

 

...Long range sniping is rewarded more due to the random plunging citadels you get than going close up and brawl, just to see your complete salvo miss at 4-8 kms.

While known from my Gremlin play I've actually tested Arkensaus and Arp Kongo in Training Room (AP works just fine against charging in DD) and Co-op and that close range is definitely sometimes comical when there' broadside cruiser at ~5km:

One turret fires 1km short and another over the ship.

Then there's that third type of "split to two" turret with one gun firing at ship's bow and other gun firing ship's stern.

[Ph3lan]

 

Well with the various changes to AP mechanics and the way BBs work right now I've basically stopped playing BBs and I know a lot of other longtime players did, too. The issue isn't "relative inaccuracy" - it's being completely unreliable when it comes to dealing damage. You either get minimum or maximum damage, relying on RNG more than anything else. Long range sniping is rewarded more due to the random plunging citadels you get than going close up and brawl, just to see your complete salvo miss at 4-8 kms.

 

Just my personal take on this, I completely understand why there has to be a certain dispersion and inaccuracy on BBs - but it's completely bonkers that you can deal more reliable AP damage with cruisers than with a BB.

 

In my case, most of the time if I lose with my BB it does not come down to the dispersion. It is mostly about me committing some kind of tactical mistake, not reading the situation correctly, choosing the wrong targets, bad consumable timing or something similar. Dispersion might also play a part of course, but there are so many mistakes on my part that I can't really blame that for the end result. Since you are a much better player than me Crysantos, the dispersion might play a larger role in your matches (since you don't commit that many mistakes) and it is probably more obvious to you. For an "average" player  I feel the there is so much to improve tactically and mechanically that dispersion is probably the least of the factors that contributes to bad performance. 

[Retu81]

When you see your shot from a single double gun turret start to fly off in a clear V-shape, you know the dispersion is overdone.

[TheCinC]

How can you hit cruisers and not battleships?
That makes no sense.

Personally, not having this issue, even at long range I get the odd lucky citadel and really, really hurt that enemy BB, cruiser, sometimes even a DD at medium range.

[Skyllon]

Go play world of tanks. When you done that you have the right to complain about RNG in this game.

 

Love it!

I guess it means that one should be happy because somewhere else is even worse?

 

 

(...)

Final thought. This game is much more about where to be and who to shoot than being able to land the hits. But if you can't hit anything because of RNG (Or user error) Then your just a big fat pinata of points for the enemy team. Either remove the RNG of shot dispersion (And lower shell damage a little) Or give the lead indicator back and and remove the player error.

(...)

 

On the other hand if you are a good shot, even if RNG is not on your side, you are going to land enough shells on the target to accumulate significant amount of damage through the course of battle.

 

There are also those times when every time you shoot you score citadels. The other day, in Kongo had a game that was so short I had no many chances to fire guns. But still with only couple of salvos I scored 8 citadels...

 

[Rybak1999]

Me, playing BB's in a nutshell:

 

1) Sniping DD's from 12-15km? No problem, I just load HE and poor sucker gets smacked for 5-10k.

2) Nurnberg broadside on at 8km? NOPE. 80% of shots miss, rest(if hits) does only overpens. -___-

 

 

[Blue_Bug]

So the past few days I have REALLY REALLY been trying to improve my shooting with BB's.

 

 

Cruisers not real issue I can find my range and lead very quickly I don't need any help there. Fire a shot see where it lands adjust accordingly no issue.

 

Destroyers, Torps are REAL easy to hit with (Provided the target is oblivious)

 

Carriers, Again torps are easy enough to hit with where one decent spread can turn the tide of a flank and win you the fight

 

Battleships on the other hand......Perfect shot, perfect lead and RNG says NOPE7 of your 8 shells miss and the 8th hits and does no damage (This is broadside on.

 

 

An Example.

 

Was on that new map with the island north and south dead center where the carrier like to hide. Was in my ARP Haruna (Basically a Kongo).

 

3 Min into the battle Enemy carrier spotted by our carriers fighters, It's just out of my gun range so I pop my spotter plane slow down to 1/4 speed so I don't overshoot the mountain and keep a clear line of fire on the carrier.

 

First salvo, 1 shell hits rest straddle the target

Second salvo nothing hits

Third salvo nothing hits

 

THIS IS A STATIONARY TARGET.....

 

Fourth salvo I don't get to fire because an enemy DD has snuck through and is making a break for our carrier, Full power hard right to bring the guns in its general direction, 17km away he vanishes I fire blind........DETONATED. O.o

 

I can't hit a stationary ship the size of 4 football fields, But I can hit a DD going full tilt on a "snap shot" ?

 

To top it off Was shooting at a enemy Kongo in the same fight him broadside on to me, Me showing "just" enough of my side to get my rear guns to fire between his shots and then tucking my ships fat [edited]back in again, I get 6 hit on him doing not much, He holds one salvo back hits me in the side as i poke out my [edited]and takes 80% of my hp.

 

 

Now on the other hand yesterday I was reliably hitting targets at range with the same ship, But today I can't hit a thing.

 

Now if wargaming are going to insist on this kind of stupid dispersion could we PLEASE get the lead indicator back, And before people start crying about it let me remind everyone.

 

ALL Torps get it, From planes, DD's, Cruisers, Even battleships (Derpitz )

 

And it can be countered, You see a DD,plane you turn towards them. If you know theres a DD nearby you either turn away before you hear the beeping, or turn towards the rough area, Cruisers get the sonar, and you get the perk that increases torp range detection. And to make life difficult you just change speed occasionally, or change course slightly every 10-15 seconds. 

 

Now fore the aim assist for main guns, For DD's and cruisers it won't really change much, There rate of fire is high enough that after the first or second shot if your target has not changed speed or course there really is no reason to miss.

 

A BB on the other hand, If you know a BB is aiming in your direction do what you do now, Change speed/course, If you want a heads up there's the incoming fire alert - THERES A DIRECT COUNTER for it, Same as Torps (Can't help with the cruiser HE spam though )

 

I've had plenty of games tonight where if just one or two of my salvo's HIT the target I could have swung the game in my teams favor, Or at least given my team a fighting chance.

 

Final thought. This game is much more about where to be and who to shoot than being able to land the hits. But if you can't hit anything because of RNG (Or user error) Then your just a big fat pinata of points for the enemy team. Either remove the RNG of shot dispersion (And lower shell damage a little) Or give the lead indicator back and and remove the player error.

 

You still have to give an educated guess as to what the target is going to do, Is he going to turn, slow down, stop or keep sailing straight on.

 

I will stress again, MISSING A STATIONARY CARRIER WITH 3 SALVO's and having only a SINGLE shell hit for minor damage is just flat out wrong.

 

And I see the flip side too, I Detonated my first target from full hp yesterday, But it was point blank range with the Arkansa's Beta and all 12 guns (Cruiser tried to peekaboo round a mountain popped out to try and spot our DD and found me 3 km from him with everything pointed at him, He even said in chat after, "I popped out looking for a DD, It suddenly turned into a BB, brb need to change my underware" Witch got a few laughs.

 

I don't feel im a bad shot, But it's getting harder and harder to tell if its my error, RNG or the other player making a change at the last second

  ​So your solution for this is Aim-asist. You are complaining about RNG. Aim asist does nothing about RNG.