Adapt and Evolve - 0.5.5 Shimakaze Commentary [270k damage]

[Pupu_prpr]

The Shima was probably the ship changed the most in the recent patch, and as usual we have people proclaiming the sky is falling instead of adapting. Decided to reply to those claims with a commentary of my own.

 

[Ictogan]

I feel like the Kagero got hit much harder than the shimakaze. 10km torps are a straight downgrade from the Fubuki, due to having 1 less torp and less flexibility due to only two launchers. 20km torps are useless, same as Shima. 8km torps are, as you said, extremely high risk, even though they also have great reward when using them properly.

I think the Kagero should just get the type 93 mod 1(20km) switched out for the type 93 mod 3(12km).

 

Edit: and also consider that the "gunboat" gearing with torpedo acceleration now has(compared to a type 93 mod 3 shima) more torpedo range(13.2km vs 12km), significantly better torpedo detection(1.4km vs 1.9km), better torpedo speed(71kts vs 67kts) and better torpedo reload(136s vs 153s stock).

Now it has 5 less of them and they deal less damage, but I feel like IJN DDs at tier 9&10 have lost their national flavour of having better torpedoes than the USN ones. And USN DDs will still outgun IJN ones if both players are playing well. To add to that, they can actually sometimes shoot planes down, meaning that a CV can't just shut them down by keeping them permaspotted.

 

I've just realized that this may sound like some more of the whining you see everywhere, so I would like to clarify that that is not my intention. IJN DDs are still [edited]good torpedo boats. But they can't do it significantly better than USN ones now and the Kagero is being forced into an insanely high risk option.

[Z_OnkelE]

I feel like the Kagero got hit much harder than the shimakaze.

 

Sounds like a challenge for Flamu

[Ictogan]

 

Sounds like a challenge for Flamu

Not saying the Kagero can't output very high damage numbers​^{[citation needed],} but unlike the Shima it's now being forced into the F3 torps.

[Krizmuz]

So the Shima is more like Minekaze now with T6-9 inbetween which play differently than those two?

[Takeda92]

 

Sounds like a challenge for Flamu

 

He'll just show 1 good game he had in it.

 

Personally, I'll wait for the stat to see if these ships are balanced or not..

[Capra76]

Interesting video Flamu, I presume that was from the 15 games on Sunday when you averaged 71,000, without that game your average would've been 58,000 compared to the 86,000 you average over the long term.

 

Was there a lot of experimenting with other torpedoes during those games or some other factor that made you 15,000 - 30,000 average damage weaker?

[Pupu_prpr]

Interesting video Flamu, I presume that was from the 15 games on Sunday when you averaged 71,000, without that game your average would've been 58,000 compared to the 86,000 you average over the long term.

 

Was there a lot of experimenting with other torpedoes during those games or some other factor that made you 15,000 - 30,000 average damage weaker?

 

No, I made this vid today (yesterday on Monday since it's so late), as you can clearly see since I mentioned that the double credit buff was no longer active. Pleasantly surprised I averaged 71k damage even with some of the disastrous games I had with the 20k torps, thanks for calculating that for me!

 

I don't understand why you even need to ask if there was a lot of experimenting with torpedoes though? Of course there was, how would I otherwise test them out and be able to give my informed opinion about them? I spent much of Sunday spamming shima with various module and captain setups before finding one I could recommend to my viewers.

 

That's how I've always done commentaries, research first, commentary after.

 

[MS_Surface]

 

No, I made this vid today (yesterday on Monday since it's so late), as you can clearly see since I mentioned that the double credit buff was no longer active. Pleasantly surprised I averaged 71k damage even with some of the disastrous games I had with the 20k torps, thanks for calculating that for me!

 

I don't understand why you even need to ask if there was a lot of experimenting with torpedoes though? Of course there was, how would I otherwise test them out and be able to give my informed opinion about them? I spent much of Sunday spamming shima with various module and captain setups before finding one I could recommend to my viewers.

 

That's how I've always done commentaries, research first, commentary after.

 

 

I'm your subscriber and i usually agree with what you say but this video... saying that your viewers (subs...) that complain about Shima nerfs are "full of sh..." and should "evolve" is insulting and obviously, you should expect some nasty feedback. I subbed to your channel because i like the way you comment the videos, because you play well and i think your videos are enjoyable. It's your channel and you do what you want with it but i would think twice before saying certain things.

Other than that, i really don't agree with this nerfs being good for anything. If WG increased mod 3 range a bit, nobody would be complaining.

 

ps. Keep up the good work Flamu but please try to go easy on the words.

 

Cheers!

[Capra76]

 

No, I made this vid today (yesterday on Monday since it's so late), as you can clearly see since I mentioned that the double credit buff was no longer active. Pleasantly surprised I averaged 71k damage even with some of the disastrous games I had with the 20k torps, thanks for calculating that for me!

 

I don't understand why you even need to ask if there was a lot of experimenting with torpedoes though? Of course there was, how would I otherwise test them out and be able to give my informed opinion about them? I spent much of Sunday spamming shima with various module and captain setups before finding one I could recommend to my viewers.

 

That's how I've always done commentaries, research first, commentary after.

 

 

Ok, thanks for the info, didn't know if you'd tried them on the PT server or maybe experimented Friday/Saturday - completely missed the point about x2 XP, which should've tipped me off.

[Pupu_prpr]

 

I'm your subscriber and i usually agree with what you say but this video... saying that your viewers (subs...) that complain about Shima nerfs are "full of sh..." and should "evolve" is insulting and obviously, you should expect some nasty feedback. I subbed to your channel because i like the way you comment the videos, because you play well and i think your videos are enjoyable. It's your channel and you do what you want with it but i would think twice before saying certain things.

Other than that, i really don't agree with this nerfs being good for anything. If WG increased mod 3 range a bit, nobody would be complaining.

 

ps. Keep up the good work Flamu but please try to go easy on the words.

 

Cheers!

 

What nonsense is this? I said the people who called the ship unplayable are wrong. There's a pretty drastic difference between nerfed and unplayable. I also mentioned I understood the frustration the average player might feel because WG made the mistake (imo) of leaving the 20k torps in the game instead of removing them altogether, making people think they are a valid option, even if they are horrendous. 5:39 in the vid I discuss this mentioning how confusing it will be for new players, probably leading to frustration and a skewed image of the Shimakaze.

 

I admit I might have been a bit hard on the words though, mostly because I feel people have been so stubborn when arguing the subject with me. Something I should no doubt watch out for, but it's in my nature to be confrontative when I feel someone who is wrong is arguing with me.

[MS_Surface]

 

What nonsense is this? I said the people who called the ship unplayable are wrong. There's a pretty drastic difference between nerfed and unplayable. I also mentioned I understood the frustration the average player might feel because WG made the mistake (imo) of leaving the 20k torps in the game instead of removing them altogether, making people think they are a valid option, even if they are horrendous. 5:39 in the vid I discuss this mentioning how confusing it will be for new players, probably leading to frustration and a skewed image of the Shimakaze.

 

I admit I might have been a bit hard on the words though, mostly because I feel people have been so stubborn when arguing the subject with me. Something I should no doubt watch out for, but it's in my nature to be confrontative when I feel someone who is wrong is arguing with me.

 

It's only natural that people are stubborn. Do you think players would grind all the way to a Tier X, to have a "playable" ship? All other Tier X ships are really good. Why is it enough for the Tier X IJN DD to be "playable"?

Mod 3 torpedoes where changed in a way that, if i want to "play", i'm always forced into detection range. When i go into those positions, the ship lacks the "proper tools" to deal with it. When i say unplayable is because of the fact that i don't really know what role the Shimakaze has right now. It has average torpedoes, bad guns, bad survivability, bad reload, bad turret rotation, bad torpedo detection, bad everything if we compare to other Tier X DDs. Sure it is still playable but most battles i'll be waiting for a time where there's less ships or less radars. CA captains are also learning quickly how to properly use their radars and there will be even more ships with that upgrade i suppose.

You know that 12km range is nothing at Tier X. It's not only radars, i have to engage gunboat DDs a lot more times and i will either runaway or sink. Meanwhile that gunboat you found is keeping you always at 13, 14km from ships that you want to launch torpedoes at. That's not something more challenging or exciting. Most battles i will probably get that "weaker buffalo that got away from the herd", land a dozen "random" shells somewhere along the way or just trust in my luck...

You can't possibly think that "playable" is an option. If you take 30% of the main battery fire power of a Yamato, it's still "very playable" but doing it is just nonsense. Shimakaze only advantage was torpedoes. It should be nonsense as well.

Maybe i'm horribly wrong and there's a special role for the Shimakaze, or a great way to take advantage of almost always having to rush on ships to launch torpedoes but i can't see how.

 

I think you should play a few battles with Kagero with F3/8km torpedoes. I tried it and it's kind of crazy. With every torpedo reload boosts and skill installed, i think you have like 1 minute reload (not sure here)... If you exchange smoke for torpedo reload boost upgrade things can go crazy launching 16 torpedoes in 30 secs at 76knots. The 5.4km detection range is great and having Tier VII ships also help. I would go back to this ship and just forget about Tier X problems but some Kagero captains are saying it's not that good so i'll just wait a while to see. 

 

Cheers!

[Omnichr0n]

Looks like my kinda ship after the nerf. Will have to torp my way up to it soon

 

[MS_Surface]

I feel like the Kagero got hit much harder than the shimakaze. 10km torps are a straight downgrade from the Fubuki, due to having 1 less torp and less flexibility due to only two launchers. 20km torps are useless, same as Shima. 8km torps are, as you said, extremely high risk, even though they also have great reward when using them properly.

I think the Kagero should just get the type 93 mod 1(20km) switched out for the type 93 mod 3(12km).

 

Edit: and also consider that the "gunboat" gearing with torpedo acceleration now has(compared to a type 93 mod 3 shima) more torpedo range(13.2km vs 12km), significantly better torpedo detection(1.4km vs 1.9km), better torpedo speed(71kts vs 67kts) and better torpedo reload(136s vs 153s stock).

Now it has 5 less of them and they deal less damage, but I feel like IJN DDs at tier 9&10 have lost their national flavour of having better torpedoes than the USN ones. And USN DDs will still outgun IJN ones if both players are playing well. To add to that, they can actually sometimes shoot planes down, meaning that a CV can't just shut them down by keeping them permaspotted.

 

I've just realized that this may sound like some more of the whining you see everywhere, so I would like to clarify that that is not my intention. IJN DDs are still [edited]good torpedo boats. But they can't do it significantly better than USN ones now and the Kagero is being forced into an insanely high risk option.

 

So how have you been doing with Kagero? I was thinking of going back to it. I was having some nice battles with F3/8km torpedoes but it was on test server, where things can go weird.

[Ictogan]

 

So how have you been doing with Kagero? I was thinking of going back to it. I was having some nice battles with F3/8km torpedoes but it was on test server, where things can go weird.

 

The Kagero with F3 torpedoes is one of the best ships and at the same time one of the worst ships I've played. Either you can just wreck anything with those 76kts rockets or it's absolutely useless, depending on the situation. There's not an awful lot of situations where it's anywhere in between.

[th3freakie]

 

The Kagero with F3 torpedoes is one of the best ships and at the same time one of the worst ships I've played. Either you can just wreck anything with those 76kts rockets or it's absolutely useless, depending on the situation. There's not an awful lot of situations where it's anywhere in between.

 

I'm running it with the TA, and the F3s just aren't practical. Guided missiles in speed, no doubt, but you end up exposed, and with the new spotting mechanics + radar you stay exposed for a long time, something the Kagero just isn't prepared for. The model 3 ones get an uncomfortably short range, but are playable. Perhaps using the F3s without TA is a divine experience, but I'm not about to give WG money as a reward for nerfing a ship down to "playable". 

 

Currently just glad I didn't use my ample free exp to unlock the Shima, as I could have, and will be focusing on learning to play Battleships instead.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

 

I'm running it with the TA, and the F3s just aren't practical. Guided missiles in speed, no doubt, but you end up exposed, and with the new spotting mechanics + radar you stay exposed for a long time, something the Kagero just isn't prepared for. The model 3 ones get an uncomfortably short range, but are playable. Perhaps using the F3s without TA is a divine experience, but I'm not about to give WG money as a reward for nerfing a ship down to "playable". 

 

Currently just glad I didn't use my ample free exp to unlock the Shima, as I could have, and will be focusing on learning to play Battleships instead.

 

You do not read forums? - BS are ussles

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/49495-my-bbs-feel-obsolete-even-my-yamato/

[th3freakie]

 

You do not read forums? - BS are ussles

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/49495-my-bbs-feel-obsolete-even-my-yamato/

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I wasn't whining about how BBs are OP or BB players are noobs or anything of the sort. It's just a different class that I haven't tried much of yet, and if I am to give IJN DDs a rest, might as well try something on the opposite side of the gameplay spectrum.

 

Besides, I'm slightly above average with the New York so maybe there's some skill to explore there (probably not, though ) 

[_interceptor_80]

Just to put light on some details: WG doing some nasty thing

I (and majority of Shima players) need to reset capt. skills for free or cca 400 doubloons

Because we are forced to play 9.6km faster torps instead of 12km normal  

If we have elited Shima in 0.5.4 patch why we need to pay 2x 2.5 mil. in 0.5.5 for 2 "new"/nerfed torps?

Let me remind you: in 0.5.4 16km torps become now 9.6km range and we need to pay that hammer 2.5 mil. really?  

Its so stupid to players need to pay nerf

So if I want playable Shima I need to invest in new patch nerfs 425 doubloons and to spend 2.5 mil. for nerfed torps

 

[Martaloc801124]

I think i adapted very fast  . But true i needed reset my captain skillpoints ,so  WG forced me buy 500 doubloons and i must payed 2,5 million credit for the new torps . This was not fair from WG.

 

I wish i have recorded this battle , but i have some good screenshoots :

 

 

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

 

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

 

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

 

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

 

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

 

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

 

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

 

 

This is my captain and what equipment i use curently :

 

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

 

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

 

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

 

[Taffus]

True the Shima is still playable. But it lost its greatness, it has become an average, but deadly ship at the highest tier. And not really a rewarding ship at tier 10, in my humble opinion.

And Flamu is not the average player. Only a few in the community can truly live up to his averages. He would probably make a Hatsuharu in a Tier X game a playable ship. :-)

I never really used the Shima for extreme ranges, but the range option gave the ship more flexibility, as Flamu also states in his choice for the 12kms. Right now with all the radar and enemy gunboats it has become a challenge to play the Shima, which is good. But personally I think it went a little too far. I tried to adept, but I am just not at good as Flamu (but not a bad player either). It is so easy to get caught now. So basically the only way to go for me now, is go in very aggressive and try to take one or two ships in my death, or play really conservative, avoiding most and wait for a few chances later in the battle.

 

I play the shima with torp acceleration. So 9,6 km is the only option. Even tried the 6.4 km torps for fun. 82 knots is insane. I just refuse to pay the 500 gold, though I dont mind to pay my monthly premium subscription and buying a premium ship now and then. So this feels like a rip off, especially because it is tier X and most owners have played quite a few battles, and are likely to be premium members....

So basically I prefer to go for the Gearing or even Fletcher for now. Will play the Shima now and then, and more Fubuki when I want to play IJN dd's.

 

[WhoCares01]

Do statistics lie?

 

Shimakaze stats for 2016/04/30

JP

DD

10

Shimakaze

753

15949

21.18

48.89

0.08

51.04

1593

49918

0.85

0.18

0.00

0.00

42.42

1.48

 

Shimakaze stats for 2016/05/07

JP

DD

10

Shimakaze

684

12758

18.65

46.74

0.07

53.19

1486

40075

0.72

0.21

0.00

0.00

37.45

1.15

 

-2% win rate, -20% damage; by far the lowest damage of all tier 10 ships and the lowest win rate of all tier 8-10 ships, also by a considerable margin

to all but the American T8/9 carriers.

[Martaloc801124]

No ,statistic dont lie. Nowadays is very hard to play with the Shima mainly there are very many gunboats in every match.

Shima cant beat in 1vs1 even the tier 8 DD's except the Fubuki ,same IJN DD.

Benson,Tashkent, Lo Yang are all deadly oponents and any tier 9, 10 USA or USR DD send you back to the port in seconds.

You can see the new trend in games too, every game full with USA and USR DD's sometimes with one lone IJN DD.

After par month the IJN DD's will be obsolate becuse the gunboats will always slaugter them.

I think the IJN DD's need some buff in gun dpm and must reduce the turret traverse speed atleast with 5 sec in all tier because they cant defend themselves with cruiserlike 25- 30 sec turret traverse speed.

[_interceptor_80]

Time to nerf gunboats to "playable" level,this will be cool feature for WG ....

Things going to smell like in WOT, nerf experts cutting down some tanks to death and keep in state like that for 2 years and then they bring back 50% what nerf hammer done *Patton M48 example

So WG please safe me here from STUPID decisions and messing with tier X ships

Make bad ships better this is way to go 

NO piont for me to play Shima in state like that if I have Fubuki and Kamikaze

 

  

[Sub_Eleven]

I suspect it's the yolo shima drivers that pull the stats down. See quite alot of em all alone on a flank expecting to operate with impunity, till they run into afore mentioned gunboats and radar ships. I don't mind, it's lovely xp for my benson and new orleans. I suspect those players will ragequit in the next couple of weeks and the good shima captains will grasp the change in playstyle needed to be succesful.