So Carriers, where did they go?

[Hannibalurg]

I have had a long afk from this game, and i am just curious on where the carriers went?

 

Used to have 2 carriers on each team, sometimes only 1v1, now i see carriers once every 15-20 games.

 

Sup wit dat?

 

[txtspeak]

they went up my [edited].

 >=D

[Gunship14]

I'm not one to talk about the problems CVs face, honestly, I don't know. But, every 15-20 games is an exaggeration. I see CVs every other game.

[Procrastes]

Due to overall cross-class buffs of AA defense capabilities they were hunted near to extinction, but they have recently found new breeding grounds in the premium shop and are slowly building up to a healthy population in mid-tier games.

[Jethro_Grey]

Like with every other class - see all the Shima-got-nerfed-mimimi-whine threads - as soon a class gets nerfed from being OP as hell to finally balanced,

the players start whining that they can't rofl stomp the opposition anymore, and stop playing the nerfed ships.

Because that's what it's all about, having a OP ship to curbstomp everyone else.

It's easier to do well in OP ships, good results without any effort. When you have to put effort into it, well that's the point where the fun for some folks evaporates and leaves saltyness. ^^

[P4RDUS]

In tier 5-6-7 games i see them very often. Most of them are even 4 CV matches.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

try play t4 u will face even 4x each game

[Jethro_Grey]

True, the lower Tiers are quite populated with CVs, it's the high tiers that don't see a CV every game.

 

[AgarwaenME]

 

Like with every other class - see all the Shima-got-nerfed-mimimi-whine threads - as soon a class gets nerfed from being OP as hell to finally balanced,

the players start whining that they can't rofl stomp the opposition anymore, and stop playing the nerfed ships.

Because that's what it's all about, having a OP ship to curbstomp everyone else.

It's easier to do well in OP ships, good results without any effort. When you have to put effort into it, well that's the point where the fun for some folks evaporates and leaves saltyness. ^^

 

Or maybe if you want to live in the real world. After certain types of people whine that they can't just be automaticly immune to anything by buying a BB they fill the forums with endless whines (it's amazingly hypocritical to attack those that get nerfed as whiners btw, given the amount of BB mafia whine threads we've seen since early CBT), other ships gets their abilities nerfed to not overpower the lowest common denominator BB player.

 

DDs weren't doing more damage, or surviving more, than BBs even before the latest nerfs. And CVs who specificly hunted the highest HP targets barely outdamaged BBs. And even now the forum is littered with "fire is op" posts, as if CAs in any way are hard targets for BBs to deal with.

 

Fact of the matter is, no ship gets you better results for minimum effort than BBs. Surviving is more or less only dependant on having a minimum of map awareness (unlike say DDs and CVs who both needs this maxed) and the ability to now and then turn and angle your ship (unlike say CAs who can get wrecked by BBs from any angle).

[Dar_Raksada]

At higher tiers aa is very strong, and it got buffed recently (first nerfed, then buffed to higher than pre-nerf). Starting at t9, but especially at t10 any cruiser will shred your planes in seconds (taiho planes at least). When bombing an iowa or any t10BB you can expect to a chunk of your planes even if they are solo. When teams stick close it becomes impossible to bomb anything, and the camping everyone complains about on t10 means that teams will stick together, or at least in big chunks. If a DM or Hindenburg goes solo you still can't really bomb him unless someone has been shooting he to take out the aa.

 

I love the cv playstyle even at high tiers though.

[Hannibalurg]

I'm not one to talk about the problems CVs face, honestly, I don't know. But, every 15-20 games is an exaggeration. I see CVs every other game.

 

Thing is i don't exaggeration. Maybe a little bit. 1 out of 10 games then. I que with buddy T8 while i play the Montana or Yamato, and i can honestly say that 1 pr 10th game i see a CV. Maybe it's the playtimes, but nevertheless. Never seen 2xT10 CV's. Maybe it can happen during primetime tho. But not in the day or at night. Never. Of all these games i'v not seen a singel 2v2 CV's at all. 

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

Like with every other class - see all the Shima-got-nerfed-mimimi-whine threads - as soon a class gets nerfed from being OP as hell to finally balanced,

the players start whining that they can't rofl stomp the opposition anymore, and stop playing the nerfed ships.

Because that's what it's all about, having a OP ship to curbstomp everyone else.

It's easier to do well in OP ships, good results without any effort. When you have to put effort into it, well that's the point where the fun for some folks evaporates and leaves saltyness. ^^

 

Do you used the Shima ? i doubt it. The Shima was not OP, it was a well balanced ship for T10, the problem was the MM, game after game you would see 5,6,7 or even 8 Shima's in battles which ruined the experience for other players due to the very high volume of torps, so obviously with all these torps there is going to be a lot of casualties, put 5,6,7 or 8 Hindenburgh's or Yamato's in each battle and you will soon see everyone shouting OP. The MM was 100% to blame for the chaos caused by the Shima's. A ship with such an arsenal of torpedoes should be limited to 1 or 2 on each team.

 

So to solve the problem, WG nerf the Shima, great excuse to take away the fact they have implemented an MM system that has been broken for a long time, blame the Shima.

 

Effectively they have destroyed a destroyer in the process. Now you hardly see a Shima, they are getting smaller in numbers by the day

[Gatt]

They are all in Tier V-VI games. Often two on each side. 3 Torpedo Bombers squadrons against one BB with almost no AA is very funny to watch ..... very funny.

[Jethro_Grey]

 

Do you used the Shima ? i doubt it. The Shima was not OP, it was a well balanced ship for T10, the problem was the MM, game after game you would see 5,6,7 or even 8 Shima's in battles which ruined the experience for other players due to the very high volume of torps, so obviously with all these torps there is going to be a lot of casualties, put 5,6,7 or 8 Hindenburgh's or Yamato's in each battle and you will soon see everyone shouting OP. The MM was 100% to blame for the chaos caused by the Shima's. A ship with such an arsenal of torpedoes should be limited to 1 or 2 on each team.

 

So to solve the problem, WG nerf the Shima, great excuse to take away the fact they have implemented an MM system that has been broken for a long time, blame the Shima.

 

Effectively they have destroyed a destroyer in the process. Now you hardly see a Shima, they are getting smaller in numbers by the day

 

I used the Shima on the Testserver as i'm on the Kagero on the live server atm, but yeah, i played it.

 

And i'm perfectly aware of the fact that the Shimakaze by itself is not OP. Infact, despite all the claims and whining on the Forums, none of the ships in WoWS is OP. Not a single one of them.

After Mogami got her - well derserved nerf bat treatment - there is no ship that can be considered to be OP.

 

When i reached Tier V in the RU Cruiser line, i was thinking, ok now we have  some OP ships. When i reached Tier VI i was pretty sure we have some OP ships.

Then i went into a knife fight with an Omaha - and i had to reconsider. Are the RU CLs strong? Yes. OP? No.

In the end, it all balances out. Every ship can be very strong in the hand of a good player.

 

We do have quite a few strong ships across all techtrees and in the Ptremium depatrtment, that is for sure - but downright OP? Nope.

Then why do i state that the Shima is OP? I like how folks claim that Premiums are OP, but Silverships ain't and how defendend some folks get when one does make such a statement ( not aimed at you though).^^

And with the current whinning, in regards to what some folks believe is a nerf to the Shima, it certainly is fun.^^

 

You are right in the point that it's not the ship that's OP, it's the MM that's responsible for the Meta we have at high tiers. And it does indeed need to be adressed and rather sooner then later. Much sooner.

Having 3 Shimas, 1 Kagero, 1 Fubuki and a Fletcher on the other team while our team had 2 Fubukis and a Benson is nowhere near good matchmaking.

 

I have to disagree though on the destroyed a destroyer statement. Plain wrong. Shima is hardly destroyed, neither is she gone from the MM. 

In every game i played since the patch, there was at least one of them. And isn't this what we asked for? To reduce the number of shimas in MM?

And considering the results those Shima players had, she surely as hell ain't nerfed to death.

 

Personally, i don't see the point in sitting in the far back and spam torps in the generell direction of the enemy. But that's the culprit, ain't it?

The chance to hit something with from long range with the 20km torps has been reduced and lots of folks going Ham about that. Sad, that Shima drivers now actualkly have to work for it...

[Vulgarny]

Im playing Dreadnought....dont we all?

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

 

I used the Shima on the Testserver as i'm on the Kagero on the live server atm, but yeah, i played it.

 

And i'm perfectly aware of the fact that the Shimakaze by itself is not OP. Infact, despite all the claims and whining on the Forums, none of the ships in WoWS is OP. Not a single one of them.

After Mogami got her - well derserved nerf bat treatment - there is no ship that can be considered to be OP.

 

When i reached Tier V in the RU Cruiser line, i was thinking, ok now we have  some OP ships. When i reached Tier VI i was pretty sure we have some OP ships.

Then i went into a knife fight with an Omaha - and i had to reconsider. Are the RU CLs strong? Yes. OP? No.

In the end, it all balances out. Every ship can be very strong in the hand of a good player.

 

We do have quite a few strong ships across all techtrees and in the Ptremium depatrtment, that is for sure - but downright OP? Nope.

Then why do i state that the Shima is OP? I like how folks claim that Premiums are OP, but Silverships ain't and how defendend some folks get when one does make such a statement ( not aimed at you though).^^

And with the current whinning, in regards to what some folks believe is a nerf to the Shima, it certainly is fun.^^

 

You are right in the point that it's not the ship that's OP, it's the MM that's responsible for the Meta we have at high tiers. And it does indeed need to be adressed and rather sooner then later. Much sooner.

Having 3 Shimas, 1 Kagero, 1 Fubuki and a Fletcher on the other team while our team had 2 Fubukis and a Benson is nowhere near good matchmaking.

 

I have to disagree though on the destroyed a destroyer statement. Plain wrong. Shima is hardly destroyed, neither is she gone from the MM. 

In every game i played since the patch, there was at least one of them. And isn't this what we asked for? To reduce the number of shimas in MM?

And considering the results those Shima players had, she surely as hell ain't nerfed to death.

 

Personally, i don't see the point in sitting in the far back and spam torps in the generell direction of the enemy. But that's the culprit, ain't it?

The chance to hit something with from long range with the 20km torps has been reduced and lots of folks going Ham about that. Sad, that Shima drivers now actualkly have to work for it...

 

You made some good points, i have to give you that

But regarding the Shima i disagree on the basis it's not been nerfed too much. The only 2 strong points Shima has is torps and speed. Rudder turn, turret speed and shell loading times are all poor, this make it an easy target when spotted. Before the patch the Shima could launch torps from a distance and stay safe visibility wise, now it's not the case, the Shima has to get in too close and is very easily spotted by enemy gunboats, now the Shima against a gunboat is a no contest, the gunboat should win almost every time, i have seen and felt the difference, once spotted the Shima will struggle to get away, smoke screen is almost  ineffective if a Cruiser is nearby, sonar or radar have killed any invisibility it has, it's now pretty much a weak ship for T10 compared to others.

Shima's relied on good range torps and distance, with that taken away it has destroyed a destroyer

 

Plus the fact the MM allowed too many Shimas in battles which actually ruined battles. It became a torp fest

[Aerroon]

T10 CVs suffer from what I warned about before they introduced mirror matchmaking... and what they suffer from is mirror matchmaking. If I can't actually play my carrier like 16 hours a day then it's not really unexpected that you won't see them around. I can only really play a carrier from like 5pm to 11pm my time and even then it can get sketchy matchmaking. At times other than that there is usually just no opposing T10 carrier in queue and thus you'll be waiting minutes and mostly still don't get a game.

 

Now add onto that fact that anti air is so damn powerful now as well and how carriers get rewarded much much less than other ships doing the same kinds of actions (damage, % of health taken, ships sunk etc) and I think you should be able to see why people don't really want to play CVs at the highest tiers. Lower than that you do see CVs quite often (especially T7 and T8 and below), but if those get put into a match as bottom tier they're kinda screwed.

[Blizzard____]

[Spellfire40]

The problem is rather that CVs cancel each other out.Your game basically starts when the enemy CV IS gone. The New Def fire just mean rather than snipe you have to da with AA on top of fighters to srew  up your game.

 

CV Werent gone only because of gameplay nerfs. There were gone because the nerfed the reward also. While not doing much to make gameplay more enjoyable.

[Rosletyne]

What are you talking about destroyers for? This topic is about carriers.

 

I like playing carriers, and I'm good at playing carriers, or at least I was until I reached tier VI. Now I no longer wonder where the carriers have gone, after the painful experiences I've had over the past few days.

 

I think one of the main reasons people quit playing carriers after low tiers is other carrier players. To be specific, the ones that use fighter loadouts. Suppose you enter a battle with a balanced loadout only to discover that your opponent has three times as many fighters as you. What can you do? Unless your opponent does something extremely stupid, or you manage to sneak around to sink his carrier, you are guaranteed to have a boring game. Get enough boring games, and you will quit. This is not a problem with tier IV carriers since they don't have loadouts. At tier V the average Bogue player will drive many Zuiho players to ragequit, but from tier VI onwards it only gets worse. Of course you could use fighter loadouts yourself, but what is the point of flying around with nothing to do except fight each other, with RNG deciding the winner? Fighter loadouts are boring, and they make the game boring for other carrier players too.

 

The second reason why people quit carriers is the matchmaker. Tier IV and V carriers can only encounter enemies one tier above themselves. But tier VI and onward can encounter two tiers above themselves, and that makes a huge difference. Low tier carriers have little to worry about from enemy AA, but mid tier carriers can be stuck in games with nothing to do. If you are tier VI, and you are facing tier VII cruisers and tier VIII battleships, what can you do? If you try to attack, even an isolated target, most of your planes will be shot down before they can even drop their bombs, and none will return to base. Imagine playing a cruiser with your turrets randomly being incapacitated or destroyed every time you fire, and that is what it is like playing a mid tier carrier in a high tier game. You just don't stand a chance, and the frustration will drive people to quit.

 

The third reason is both of the above together. You can get stuck in a game that is completely impossible to succeed in, no matter how skilled you are. My worst was in a tier VI carrier partnered with a tier VIII carrier using the strike loadout, when both enemy carriers had the fighter loadout. I had 4 tier VI fighters against 24 tier VI and VIII fighters on the enemy team, not to mention the enemy team had only one tier VI ship besides the other carrier. What can you do in a game like that? It was completely hopeless.

 

Because of these problems the outcome of your carrier games no longer depends on your level of skill, but on the matchmaker. Now I get a chance to play at my best in maybe one game out of five, and the rest are doomed from the start. I have the patience for it, but it does not surprise me that many other players don't.

[Aerroon]

I just got a game as a T10 Hakuryuu!

 

Aaand it was a 7vs7, so not a full match...

 

^ just to illustrate that the CV mirror means CV matches suck (at T10).

[Venatacia]

Had lots of teams over this bank holiday weekend with 2 CV a side. The team with the most DD lost I found, CVs scouted and the team with more cruisers put the DD to the bottom of the ocean. Last event weekend brought them CVs out from hiding, so whether they go back into hiding until the next event I don't know.

[Jethro_Grey]

I just got a game as a T10 Hakuryuu!

 

Aaand it was a 7vs7, so not a full match...

 

^ just to illustrate that the CV mirror means CV matches suck (at T10).

 

Well, mirror MM for CVs is a good thing, imo.

Without MMM you put the team without CV or a lower Tier CV in a big disadvantage.

[SV_Kompresor]

You probably only play higher tier games....go lower and you'll see them

[Aerroon]

 

Well, mirror MM for CVs is a good thing, imo.

Without MMM you put the team without CV or a lower Tier CV in a big disadvantage.

 

Yeah, so that I can never actually find a match, which, again, is the reason why T10 CVs are not really playable other than this 6 hour window during prime time. Don't play during that? Well [edited]you then. Shouldn't have got a T10 CV, should've gone for the other lines instead.