Let this be a lesson to us, never trigger the Battleship community!

[Mucker]

All this drama, why? Szimakaze can still stealth torp 2km with all skills/modules/camo. If you cannot use that effectively, don't pley tier 10.

[cherry2blost]

All this drama, why? Szimakaze can still stealth torp 2km with all skills/modules/camo. If you cannot use that effectively, don't pley tier 10.

 

Exactly !!

[Nechrom]

Yes it was a buff regardless of the aquisition mod. Congratulations, you are correct.

 

Also there was the nerfs to US CVs and the drop in their play during the winter, which was a huge indirect buff to Shimas, not to mention the simultaneous nerf to BB rudder shift time.

 

The torpedo visibility reduction in 5.2 was 100-500 m. The mod gives +20% and the later buff to Vigilance was +5%. If we assume the 500 m reduction was given to the Shima, then it got its effective torpedo visibility buffed by a whopping 25 m.

 

A ship is being played less? Let's directly nerf another ship based on that. What a great idea!

Just like it's an awesome idea to directly nerf a badly performing ship, because a lot of players use it and the matchmaker freaks out.

 

Blanket nerfs to BB agility doesn't just effect the Shima. Hell it doesn't just effect DDs.

I could also bring up earlier blanket buffs to ship maneuverability, but I (unlike some) realize that it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

All this drama, why? Szimakaze can still stealth torp 2km with all skills/modules/camo. If you cannot use that effectively, don't pley tier 10.

 

Clearly you know exactly what you're talking about.

[Black0rchid]

Hurrrrrrr now buff my YAMATOOOOOOOooo............put oil in rails so it goes faster duuurrrrrrrr

 

Well gents, like so many of you have said, the nerf was not needed or called for, and the problem persists. Unlike some tard said here I actually have always played with the torp speed buff on the captain and with lower range torps, I always liked it like that. I got to the Shimakaze with a healthy 59% win rate on the Kagero and enjoyed it alot ( and that is not a bad Wr rate however you look at it). I cannot say the same about the shima and for now I won't be exploring it much further as I refuse to pay retrain my captain (Thank you Wargaming). But I will keep on playing the fubuki, although slow in speed and slugish in turn maintains the same characteristics as it had.........and I will keep on killing Yamatos from 6km away .........or from 14 even ,) if I feel like it ...just so I can come to the forums and read their cries aboutr it

 

 

[Mucker]

Clearly you know exactly what you're talking about.

 

Enlighten me, i'm eager to learn, 

[Nechrom]

 

Enlighten me, i'm eager to learn, 

 

To avoid repeating myself:

 

The only issue I have with the Shima changes is that they forced her into knife fight ranges without making her viable there. The US and RU DDs completely destroys her while she's pushing in well past their max torpedo ranges.

How they nerfed the long range torps was a big mistake. They were never OP, just random and devoid of skill. Now they are even more useless to the point that you can safely ignore them when you compare the DDs. You now have a sluggish 8 km range DD who's only advantages are 15 fast torps and high alpha shells, everything else is at best decent but more likely awful.

 

Once again I want to point out that the Shima was never OP, it just rewarded lazy play and had a high morale impact.

So it had to change, but not by getting nerfed, which this change resulted in.

Even with both you're looking at 16.5 secs for 180° of traverse (10.9°/sec). Also the mod scales horribly with a long reload, low traverse gun since it's a modifier to reload time and traverse speed, making long reloads even longer and low traverse speeds not noticeably faster.

 

The issue is that now you have no option but to engage the enemy DDs if you want to get within torp range. Sure you can still avoid them in most cases, but that also means you're not getting anything done. Also CA backup is more a thing for offensive DDs like the US ones that go for caps and other DDs. A DD looking to set up torp attacks will not have the luxury of staying with CA support.

Torp focused DDs were always hit or miss because you're always at the mercy of everyone else, but the Shima "worked" through sheer quantity and not having to take risks. Both are bad ways to have a DD function, but the solution is not to break the one tool that worked without providing other solutions.

You can't make the Shima into a tier 10 Minekaze simply by slapping melee range torps onto it and call it a day. Tier 5 doesn't have radar, tons of carrier aircraft, spotter aircraft and huge open maps. The Shima was never balanced to be in any significant danger and it still didn't do particularly well statistically even when launching at 10-20 km was viable.

 

Hey, I would be the first one to be happy if I could play my destroyer around 8-10 km torps, it's a fun way to play DDs. But currently it's not a functioning long term playstyle with the high tier IJN DDs.

[GulvkluderGuld]

Nechrom, on 02 May 2016 - 07:41 PM, said:

 

The torpedo visibility reduction in 5.2 was 100-500 m. The mod gives +20% and the later buff to Vigilance was +5%. If we assume the 500 m reduction was given to the Shima, then it got its effective torpedo visibility buffed by a whopping 25 m

 

Still a buff.

And that is provided the ship has both mod and Vigilance, which only BBs do. 

Against other ships the buff was much greater. My torp casualty rate in DDs increased by quite a lot due to that buff.

 

A ship is being played less? Let's directly nerf another ship based on that. What a great idea!

Just like it's an awesome idea to directly nerf a badly performing ship, because a lot of players use it and the matchmaker freaks out.

 

Blanket nerfs to BB agility doesn't just effect the Shima. Hell it doesn't just effect DDs.

I could also bring up earlier blanket buffs to ship maneuverability, but I (unlike some) realize that it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

 

When the direct counter to a ship is nerfed, don't you think it gets an advantage?

Also you put your finger on the crucial point.

If it is so bad, why do you think a lot of players play it? Natural stupidity perhaps?

 

I for one am in favour of diversity in my games. Repetition is boring.

And yes that includes nerfing popular ships to force players onto other ships. 

 

EDIT: typos

[IceyJones]

the 20km torps are still fine! you really think that 5kts +spotting  nerf makes a difference?! rofl.....

railsailers will still get rekt! working as intended......

 

 

[Tyrendian89]

Flamu agrees the changes are a good thing. Flamu is God. Flamu is love. Flamu is life. /thread.*

 

 

*do feel free to put your irony meter to use, it might get some results on that statement...

[ghostbuster_]

 

 

Here is your unplayable hugely nerfed very underperforming(!) shimakaze.

[ghostbuster_]

Flamu agrees the changes are a good thing. Flamu is God. Flamu is love. Flamu is life. /thread.*

 

 

 

*do feel free to put your irony meter to use, it might get some results on that statement...

lol i didnt refresh the page before i post itbut you were quicker than me. 

[Syrrender]

Flamu agrees the changes are a good thing. Flamu is God. Flamu is love. Flamu is life. /thread.*

 

 

*do feel free to put your irony meter to use, it might get some results on that statement...

 

No carriers, no competent Cruisers, no competent Gunboats.

 

Everything remotely imaginable happened to be in his favor here.

 

lol fanboys swarming.

[ghostbuster_]

 

No carriers, no competent Cruisers, no competent Gunboats.

 

Everything remotely imaginable happened to be in his favor here.

 

lol fanboys swarming.

 

^because in every single battle there are cvs. all cas are equiped radar. yeah. whine more...

[Kazomir]

 

No carriers, no competent Cruisers, no competent Gunboats.

 

Everything remotely imaginable happened to be in his favor here.

 

lol fanboys swarming.

 

Not attempting to slam Flamu or anything, he is a very good player, but most of his videos are like that.

 

His Molotov comentary I saw today aswell had cruisers constantly sailing broadside to him and BBs that did not even target him. (He was also top-tier) Videos like that make the ships seem OP as heck, actually made me think that the molotov is hugely imbalanced with its Dmitrii Donskoi guns. Which it probably is.

[WhoCares01]

 

No carriers, no competent Cruisers, no competent Gunboats.

 

Everything remotely imaginable happened to be in his favor here.

 

lol fanboys swarming.

 

Not to forget that he respec'd the captain to get rid of Torpedo Accelleration...

The sad thing is, if WG didn't give us the free captain respec with the introduction of all those new skills, then today much fewer captains would be stuck with exactly that skill - namely all those that already had unlocked the Shimakaze...

So I now play my setup with the 16km torps (as most other Shimas I have seen so far with the same torp rating of 61), and I hope many other Shima captains stuck with this skill do the same, to give them a nice statistic on the result of the changes - we have to keep the torp soup cooking! Well, so far four defeats with an average of >60k damage (certainly not lost on purpose...).

Almost funny is, that now the T8+ US DDs are the kings of stealth torping: similar camouflage, very low detection torps (in absolute values also least affected by Vigilance and Target Acquisition module). Just remember all the Bensons in ranked season three, many will be by now in Fletchers and Gearings - since January the two month average of players playing American T8+ DDs already went up from ~1500 to 3400 (~230% vs 180% Japanese: 4500 to 8000).

[Nechrom]

Here is your unplayable hugely nerfed very underperforming(!) shimakaze.

 

There we go.

I was wondering when the cherry picking would start.

[Capra76]

 

No carriers, no competent Cruisers, no competent Gunboats.

 

Everything remotely imaginable happened to be in his favor here.

 

lol fanboys swarming.

 

What he doesn't mention is that his average over 15 games yesterday (and I assume that was when that game was played) was 71,000, which is 15,000 below his long term average on that ship, and without all those compliant enemies in that one game he would've been averaging 57,000.

 

Now maybe there was some experimentation with the F3's in there which dragged the average down, but he was top of the leader-board yesterday and no-one on any server has managed to post a daily average in line with what was previously achievable so I'd like to see more than one game before we conclude that nothing has happened.

[ghostbuster_]

 

There we go.

I was wondering when the cherry picking would start.

 

i love this. "cherry picking" always the same story. ".... that happens 1 time you are cherry picking..."

look its simple. if a guy can get awesome results with that ship, it means that the ship has the potential. all you have to do is play it properly. there are many people who get crap results with tirpitz. does that make it a weak ship? so before you blame the ship itself, it would be much better and easier to try getting better with it.

[Meneleus]

No carriers, no competent Cruisers, no competent Gunboats.

Everything remotely imaginable happened to be in his favor here.

lol fanboys swarming.

 

Because some nebulous assertions are an adequate rebuke to an in-depth commentary of 26 minutes right? Try again.

 

Not to forget that he respec'd the captain to get rid of Torpedo Accelleration...

The sad thing is, if WG didn't give us the free captain respec with the introduction of all those new skills, then today much fewer captains would be stuck with exactly that skill.

 

I consider that a legitimate complaint. It would have been the correct thing to allow the IJN captains specialized in the affected ships a free respec in the light of the changes.

 

Cheers, M

 

[Kartoffelmos]

i love this. "cherry picking" always the same story. ".... that happens 1 time you are cherry picking..."

look its simple. if a guy can get awesome results with that ship, it means that the ship has the potential. all you have to do is play it properly. there are many people who get crap results with tirpitz. does that make it a weak ship? so before you blame the ship itself, it would be much better and easier to try getting better with it.

 

So if I get one awesome game with Mikasa or Dresden, the ships are confirmed to be overpowered? 

[HMS_Worcester]

 

So if I get one awesome game with Mikasa or Dresden, the ships are confirmed to be overpowered? 

 

Hey, the Mikasa is OP!

[ghostbuster_]

 

So if I get one awesome game with Mikasa or Dresden, the ships are confirmed to be overpowered? 

 

not overpowered, capable. if you get 120k damage with mikasa for example, it means mikasa is capable to deal that much damage in a battle. 

[Kartoffelmos]

not overpowered, capable. if you get 120k damage with mikasa for example, it means mikasa is capable to deal that much damage in a battle. 

 

So what you are saying is that a ship's performance in one battle directly correlates to how a ship can perform in one battle? And not that that one battle represents the performance of the ship? 

[WhoCares01]

 

not overpowered, capable. if you get 120k damage with mikasa for example, it means mikasa is capable to deal that much damage in a battle. 

 

There are not just capable ships and/or captains, you also have to consider stupid enemies. And a bunch of those can make great results for pretty much every ship and captain... Like the Iowa captain today, that kept sailing in a straight line after I was detected in my Shimakaze less than 7km away in perfect position, and that twice, once before I fired 2x5 torps and shortly after.

[ghostbuster_]

 

So what you are saying is that a ship's performance in one battle directly correlates to how a ship can perform in one battle? And not that that one battle represents the performance of the ship? 

 

yes. it show how good that ship can be with the right hands using it.

 

 

There are not just capable ships and/or captains, you also have to consider stupid enemies. And a bunch of those can make great results for pretty much every ship and captain... Like the Iowa captain today, that kept sailing in a straight line after I was detected in my Shimakaze less than 7km away in perfect position, and that twice, once before I fired 2x5 torps and shortly after.

there are a lot of those people. i also had such a guy today.