Captain Skill "Fire Prevention" - Redesign

[Spuggy]

Currently the captain skill Fire Prevention offers a -7% to the risk of fire.

 

This is currently an ineffective skill. This is because of how the chance of fire formula actually works.

 

The bonus doesn't actually result in a -7% chance of a fire being set on your ship. It actually equates to approximately -1% to the chance of a fire being set per HE shell hit. This makes the skill miss leading as it infers that the skill will provide a much greater reduction in chance of fires being set on your ship.

 

So I'd like to discuss whether

 

A) The skill is currently noticeably effective and worth the skill points.

 

B) The skill description is correct or should be re-worded

 

C) The skill should be redesigned to be an effective "Fire Prevention / Fire Fighting" skill.

 

 

My answers to these questions are:

 

A) In my experience and my understanding of the current game mechanics this skill is not effective or does it offer any noticeable difference in the chance of fire on your ship

 

B) The skill does not offer a good description as to how effective the skill actually is

 

C) The skill should be redesigned to either offer a larger bonus to the reduction in the chance of fire or changed to offer a different bonus against ship fires. I think the best option would be to make the skill effect how quickly fires are extinguished. The reason for this is that fires are ALWAYS going to happen. Being able to extinguish them quickly without using a damage control would be a very useful ability and can stack with the flags and upgrades already available.

 

Other peoples thoughts?

[herrjott]

To offer something new, it could reduce the damage over time by 10% instead of just shortening the fire duration.

[Spellfire40]

Inefectiv agist what Kind of Fire?

 

Small to medium caliber HE Shells? There it wiorks.

 

High Caliber and HE Bombs? there it lowers the Chance.

Dont Forget it stack with the plus 3% module.

You expect it to soak up 100 plus Shells without any fire.? then ist indead a "worthless" skill.

[Mr_Mistery]

well yeah me to see this skill is not too much effective but better then nothing.

the real problem is the too much HE spam that makes this skill ineffective.

and most cruiser player use HE spam(i dont want to say that HE spamers cant use AP and dont think where need to aim) but i know a new skill for cruisers

" expert shell" :AP + 25% armor punch-through

+400 damage to the main guns

HE -10% damage

-3% chance of causing the fire.

perhaps it would be less of HE spammer so it would be better to use a fire prevention skill. and even pass should develop a credit system to reward someone say the cruiser AP 60K of doing damage also receive the normal amount. HE measured not only the spam gets the money because they all burned. what we should have changed is that when the cruiser's nose section looks at the Battleship side will not give in Citadele through the nose of the cruiser but snap off the shot. so in the cruiser it would be the chance to stand on.

I play cruisers, battleships how much I know both. eg my battle ship just hate it when HE comes and burns the ship can not be put out because if we succeed in the next match lit up and this is not only unfair but OP and troll again. In reality, HE has been used only against destroyers because they have no armor up to 20-30mm. so here it is supposed to be effective against only.

 

even though I know you do not care about the developers, since it is 3.1 HE the spam problem but do not deal with it. so I'm sure that this will unfortunately lousy spam HE ..... maybe you'll realize one day or never, and when you've had enough of this and many people will lack a player shows you how to have something to start with.

[Spuggy]

Inefectiv agist what Kind of Fire?

 

Small to medium caliber HE Shells? There it wiorks.

 

High Caliber and HE Bombs? there it lowers the Chance.

Dont Forget it stack with the plus 3% module.

You expect it to soak up 100 plus Shells without any fire.? then ist indead a "worthless" skill.

 

I'm guessing you don't understand how the formula works and the difference between the performance of skills.

 

The Demo expert skill offers a +3% chance of fire per shell. If you do the math this skill actually offers +25% chance of fire per shell over the stock shell.

 

The Fire prevention skill is lucky if it reduces the chance of fire by 1%.

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

Fire Prevention should give a time limited fire immunity after a fire have been extinguished either by itself or by use or DCP IMO.

[Unintentional_submarine]

Notser actually has a nice video covering this subject. Well, it covers a lot of poor captain skills, but also Fire Prevention (he is slightly off in how fire works presently, but it doesn't matter in regards to the conclusion). I have to say that the idea of reduced damage per tick would be terribly compelling. And it would also be a hell of a lot more transparent. As is visible in this very thread the present skill doesn't outright lie, but it certainly makes people misunderstand it's effectiveness. But I also like a lot of the other proposed changes.

 

[Comrad_StaIin]

@ Mr_Mistery

I would take that skill any day in my german cruisers

[T_H_0_R]

Currently the most useless skill out there. Others were buffed, why not this one?

[Doerte]

well yeah me to see this skill is not too much effective but better then nothing.

the real problem is the too much HE spam that makes this skill ineffective.

 

No... and no (or at least I disagree). I disagree with you second point, as "HE-spamming" as you call it, is a viable strategy at times, but overall will not get you far. A good player using the "right" ammo type, at the right time will always win vs. "HE-only" (Even on most DDs) So HE-spamming is a thing only done by novice, bad or... simply dumb players. But... you might disagree.

 

STILL that first "No" is an objective "No" since that skill does not only affect Fire chances around mere 0,3-1% (before people disagree... learn fire mechanic and do the math first, pls. See link below!)

no, that skill also misguides you, by making people believe it does sth... it just does not.

(I called that a "Noob-Trap" or a "Skillsink" in various posts before. I'd even claim, 90% of people with 54+% win rate will have thrown that skill out at some point in the past)

And to give that first "No" some meat on its hips, I might add that "but better then nothing" is not true, since those 2 Skill-points are virtually ALWAYS better allocated somewhere else.

Not being able to take a usefull skill, because you took this piece of stats-mumbo-jumbo for the truth IS actually worse than "nothing", because it puts you at a disadvantage against your opponents.

 

Further reading on how skills affect... pretty much everything: 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MSNQxCSfz2mzd92Av0QNkxRlCnXavIL6ItvCYqHkg7Y/edit#gid=418658764

 

 

[Xerkics]

The purpose of that skill is to make people spend gold to respec when they find out how it actually works. It's description is deceptive in the extreme.

[Unintentional_submarine]

The purpose of that skill is to make people spend gold to respec when they find out how it actually works. It's description is deceptive in the extreme.

 

This is actually my theory too.

 

The skill looks terribly tempting to a new player. After a while he learns it is crap, as at least one guy in this thread has by now, and skills out of it soon after.

[Xerkics]

 

This is actually my theory too.

 

The skill looks terribly tempting to a new player. After a while he learns it is crap, as at least one guy in this thread has by now, and skills out of it soon after.

 

I literally had it on every single ship till I found out what it actually does.

[waxx25]

I agree with the OP an actually usefull fire reduction skill/flag is needed in this game because everything sets fire to you.

[AnotherDuck]

What did you expect Fire Prevention to do? Take 7 percentage points away from individual shell fire chance? Like taking a shell with 14% chance and reducing it to 7%? That's a 50% reduction of fire chance. It would also make you immune to anything with 7% or lower fire chance, which would make it stupidly overpowered.

[KarmaQU_EU]

It's a horrible clusterfuk of a description. Imagine if the 4th tier Arsonist skill applied its calculations this way. 3% increase to an avg of 15% fire chance is ... 0.5%.

[ColonelPete]

7% is 7%, it is just a very small reduction.

The Tier I skill is stronger.

 

20% would be better.

[Admiral_noodle]

 

I literally had it on every single ship till I found out what it actually does.

 

Me too

 

-7% additive would be far to good. The reduced damage over time would be a better implementation. As it stands it's an awful skill 

[Kenliero]

Yeah, this skill should be something like "20% less fires set, by enemies shooting at you"

[Spuggy]

What did you expect Fire Prevention to do? Take 7 percentage points away from individual shell fire chance? Like taking a shell with 14% chance and reducing it to 7%? That's a 50% reduction of fire chance. It would also make you immune to anything with 7% or lower fire chance, which would make it stupidly overpowered.

 

Well the +3% fire chance that demo expert skill gives you actually equates to 25% more chance of fire per shell.

 

Yeah, this skill should be something like "20% less fires set, by enemies shooting at you"

 

In reality the skill description should be: "less than 1% fewer fires set by enemies shooting at you"

 

The math is so wonky it's crazy.

[HMS_Worcester]

Well this thread is an eye opener, time to go and retrain some captains methinks....

 

[GunnyGreenhill]

The skill is just misleading, would rather see the real numbers of fire prevention.

[ColonelPete]

 

Well the +3% fire chance that demo expert skill gives you actually equates to 25% more chance of fire per shell.

 

 

In reality the skill description should be: "less than 1% fewer fires set by enemies shooting at you"

 

The math is so wonky it's crazy.

It is 7% less.

You are mixing up additiv and multiplikativ modifiers.

7% of for example 8% is not much, but is still 7% less.

 

[Spuggy]

It is 7% less.

You are mixing up additiv and multiplikativ modifiers.

7% of for example 8% is not much, but is still 7% less.

 

 

 

Yes it is 7% but because of how the formula works it's actually less than 1% effective.

 

You are being fooled. Check the math in the link someone posted. It really is that bad and demo expert really is that good

 

 

From another thread from a while ago:

 

It's just awful.  Sometimes it only makes a 1% difference in the final fire chance.  Example using 0.76 base rate given above (which appears to be pure speculation, as far as I can tell) and Colorado's 32% chance HE shells:

 

base rate * (1 - (Damage Control + Fire Prevention)) * (shell base fire chance + Demolition Expert) = chance of shell starting fire

 

Without Damage Control:

0.76 * (1 - (0 + 0)) * (0.32 + 0) = 24.3% chance of shell starting fire

 

With Damage Control:

0.76 * (1 - (0.05 + 0)) * (0.32 + 0) = 23.1% chance of shell starting fire

 

In this example, Damage Control makes a 1.2% difference in the chance of fires starting (which is 5% of 24.3%).  You'll still be set on fire by every 4th or 5th shell.

 

In conclusion, it's basically useless.  Use your captain skill points on other skills.

 

 

Even the upgrades that "prevent" fires are frakkin' useless!!

[ColonelPete]

It is not WGs problem if people are bad at math.

But as I said before: A higher value would be better.