Change Tier I to some 1890's

[puxflacet]

...sailors from my beautiful Albany always wonder what are those futuristic-looking ships they are meeting...

EDIT:no longer true since some patch which number i dont remember - tier 1 no longer meets anything else but tier 1

 

I think the ship tiers should progress more or less according to date they were designed. There are some jumps already for balance purposes but nothing such dramatical as tier 1 patrol boats from 1930's. And i really don't see a reason for this. You can pick from 1890's  unprotected cruisers, avisos or first protected cruisers and they would behave pretty much exactly as current patrol boats. The only difference is that they won't have turrets, but when you realize that you will stick with side-mounted guns on the following tiers anyway, I think thats only beneficial for the newcomers to get used to ther right away.

 

Many people probably don't mind becouse "it's just tier 1", but i still think that there should be some continuity...

 

[HMS_Worcester]

I would absolutely LOVE to see that happen. A +1 to you sir!

 

[Todger_Fairmile]

Maybe tier 1 and 2, with a hard cap on how high MM can go. I say hard cap because I've seen tier 1 ships on the north, and northern lights maps. Not pretty.

[Ictogan]

Maybe tier 1 and 2, with a hard cap on how high MM can go. I say hard cap because I've seen tier 1 ships on the north, and northern lights maps. Not pretty.

There is a hard cap how high mm can go. It's tier 2 battles for tier 1 and tier 3 battles for tier 2. However, if they are in a division with a higher tier ship, they are treated by mm as if they were at the same tier as the highest tier ship in the division.

[puxflacet]

well, that's not exactly what i meant...

[Todger_Fairmile]

There is a hard cap how high mm can go. It's tier 2 battles for tier 1 and tier 3 battles for tier 2. However, if they are in a division with a higher tier ship, they are treated by mm as if they were at the same tier as the highest tier ship in the division.

 

Not in a division. MM just dumped them there. It was in co-op if that makes any difference.

[KL_7]

From an historical point of view, yes, I'd love that too.

 

On the other hand, I think that would be a terrible idea gameplay-wise. The point of tier 1 is to give people something easy to play with. The current patrol boats fill the job quite well:

 

• Uniform 2 guns front + 2 guns aft
• Good manoeuvrability
• Compact size

 

Which all combined gives very simple and forgiving ships with a quite instinctive gameplay from the get-go

 

1890s cruisers on the other hand would have archaic gun placement with awkward angles, and should have pretty poor overall manoeuvrability.

That'd definitely not the kind of ship best suited to learn the basics of the game in my opinion. It could work by artificially buffing some stats compared to what they should be, but at this point realism would take a hit (and yes, I know the game is far from realistic, but understand it as "continuity" realism between the tiers).

 

 

 

[puxflacet]

i dont think that players would be sooo confused with them more than from the current ones.

you'll stick with that archaic gun placement for another 3 tiers. isnt more confusing to jump from gun turrets to side placement right after tier1? to not deal with turret rotation (because of guns on both sides) could be actually an advantage for a newcomers

 

[Todger_Fairmile]

From an historical point of view, yes, I'd love that too.

 

On the other hand, I think that would be a terrible idea gameplay-wise. The point of tier 1 is to give people something easy to play with. The current patrol boats fill the job quite well:

 

• Uniform 2 guns front + 2 guns aft
• Good manoeuvrability
• Compact size

 

Which all combined gives very simple and forgiving ships with a quite instinctive gameplay from the get-go

 

1890s cruisers on the other hand would have archaic gun placement with awkward angles, and should have pretty poor overall manoeuvrability.

That'd definitely not the kind of ship best suited to learn the basics of the game in my opinion. It could work by artificially buffing some stats compared to what they should be, but at this point realism would take a hit (and yes, I know the game is far from realistic, but understand it as "continuity" realism between the tiers).

 

 

 

 

Not saying make them starter ships. Just make them low level for a bit of variety.

[KL_7]

 

Not saying make them starter ships. Just make them low level for a bit of variety.

 

From such a point of view I guess they could work as reward ships or cheap premiums for history nerds. Balancing them around tier 1 might not be the easiest thing too.

[puxflacet]

 

Not saying make them starter ships. Just make them low level for a bit of variety.

 

i just think that these 1930s patrol boats look out of place/time with 1900 designs...if they at least wouldnt meet other tiers or had their own rampage mode.

 

 

From such a point of view I guess they could work as reward ships or cheap premiums for history nerds. Balancing them around tier 1 might not be the easiest thing too.

 

but their performance wouldnt be such dramatically different. they are maybe a bit slower but we can pick faster ones.

[puxflacet]

...

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

Great idea, would love to see this happen

[puxflacet]

well i did some research and i'm starting to see the problems...

 

the first criterium was the speed. these are the fastest.

 

examples:

SMS Gefion (1893) - looks like ideal candidate for tier 1
- speed - 19,5 knots
- guns - 10x105 mm
- armor - deck 25 mm

or

SMS Niobe (1899) - also...
- speed - 21,5 knots
- guns - 10x105 mm
- armor - deck 25 mm

or

USS Montgomery (C-9) (1891)
- speed - 19 knots
- guns - 2x152 + 8x127 mm - way too strong
- armor - deck 11 mm

or

USS Panther (1889)
- speed - 26 knots
- guns - 6x130 mm
- armor - nothing

or

IJN Yaeyama (1889)
- speed - 21 knots
- guns - 3x120 mm
- armor - nothing

or

IJN Yodo (1906)
- speed - 22 knots
- guns - 2x120 mm
- armor - deck 62 mm - strong?

 

there would be maybe beneficial some switches between tier 2 and 1 - like Novik and Chester since they are the least armed and armored ships, yet still quick enough

[DarthDon49]

How about a Tier 0 that is only unlocked when a player reaches level 10 or thereabouts?

[KarmaQU_EU]

Problems before this can be implemented:

Modelling. Need to hire more programmers. And maybe some more administration, and maybe some more...

Player count. Why model it if it is not integrated in the normal tech tree, where enough people will play it? Better leave it for April fools mode.

The whole point of this. WG doesn't need anything in their game even remotely reminding players to do anything else besides playing their game. Why even do this?

[puxflacet]

Modelling. Need to hire more programmers. And maybe some more administration, and maybe some more...

 

Why?

[Makoniel]

I think tiers 1 are" modern" ships to hook the newcommer that came to play a WW2 style game. A bit like "hey, this is the design you can expect from our ships, but before, you'll have to grind trough those old and rusty ships with 3 canons each side. (Oh, how I hate you, stock chester and chikuma.) 

 

[HMS_Worcester]

Oh, how I hate you, stock chester

 

It does look nice though.

 

I love the look of these old ships, that is the main reason I would like to see more in-game.

[Historynerd]

Pray tell those who stayed on HMS Wellesley how confused the sailors of the Albany were... 

 

 AS I was told on a previous discussion, the Wellesley was a third-rate still existing in 1940, although no longer in service (she was on loan), and she got the dubious honour of being the last British ship-of-the-line to be lost to enemy action (bombed during the Blitz).

 

[BlueMoon51]

I proposed a few weeks ago this could be a way to use XP  from elited ships, a branch that runs from a slightly earlier time thats not accessible directly it would be an easy way to add late 19th early 20th cent(and would offer the chance to add valid Russian content!) 

[puxflacet]

Tier I

USA	JAP	GER	RUS
Chester – curr. Tier II	IJN Yodo (1906)	SMS Gefion (1893)	Novik – curr. Tier II
- speed - 24 knots	- speed - 22 knots	- speed - 19,5 knots	- speed - 25 knots
- guns - 2x127 mm	- guns - 2x120 mm	- guns - 10x105 mm	- guns - 6x120 mm
- armor - belt 51 mm	- armor - deck 62 mm	- armor - deck 25 mm	- armor - deck 50 mm

 

Tier II

USS Montgomery (C-9)(1894)	Chikuma	Dresden	Izumrud (1902)
- speed - 19 knots	- speed - 26 knots	- speed - 25 knots	- speed - 24 knots
- guns - 2x152 + 8x127 mm	- guns - 8x152 mm	- guns - 10x105 mm	- guns - 6x120 mm
- armor - deck 11 mm	- armor - deck 57 mm	- armor - deck 50 mm	- armor - deck 76 mm

[Historynerd]

Tier I

USA	JAP	GER	RUS
Chester – curr. Tier II	IJN Yodo (1906)	SMS Gefion (1893)	Novik – curr. Tier II
- speed - 24 knots	- speed - 22 knots	- speed - 19,5 knots	- speed - 25 knots
- guns - 2x127 mm	- guns - 2x120 mm	- guns - 10x105 mm	- guns - 6x120 mm
- armor - belt 51 mm	- armor - deck 62 mm	- armor - deck 25 mm	- armor - deck 50 mm

 

Tier II

USS Montgomery (C-9)(1894)	Chikuma	Dresden	Izumrud (1902)
- speed - 19 knots	- speed - 26 knots	- speed - 25 knots	- speed - 24 knots
- guns - 2x152 + 8x127 mm	- guns - 8x152 mm	- guns - 10x105 mm	- guns - 6x120 mm
- armor - deck 11 mm	- armor - deck 57 mm	- armor - deck 50 mm	- armor - deck 76 mm

 

Um... 

Forgive me, but even as stock the Chester has four 127 mm guns, not two...

I spot a problem with the Montgomery: mixed-caliber armament.

[puxflacet]

i know about chester. she has some fantasy gun layout in game for balance purposes perhaps...well not a big deal to give her 4 imho

mixed caliber indeed. but is it a problem? guns are elevated automatically and only thing is rate of fire...but we can say that they will have identical

...i'm not saying that my choices are ideal or only possible...

[Historynerd]

i know about chester. she has some fantasy gun layout in game for balance purposes perhaps...well not a big deal imho

mixed caliber indeed. but is it a problem? guns are elevated automatically and only thing is rate of fire...but we can say that they will have identical

 

The guns are not the same; they have different performance, different shells, different patterns... lots of things influenced performance even between the same guns (IRL the New York's amidships turret caused a big surge in dispersion because the steam pipes that surrounded the magazine screwed with the need of keeping the charges' temperature the same), with outright different guns it's out of the question.

 

The only way the Montgomery could be placed in the game is to pretend all of its guns are either 127 or 152 mm.