Broken ship sections 0 damage has to change

[Eternus_Damnatio]

This is absolutely the most ridiculous mechanic in the game.

Example 1 - 60 Hits on a Kagero in my Khaba and he sails away with 200ish HP get a further 2 hits just before I die for yet again 0 damage.

Example 2 - 6 Torpedo's hit the same section of a Fubuki he lives.

It's basically saying that the ship is fully functioning with a section you can't damage.

So engine, guns, torps, rudder and steering can all work completely fine in a section you can no longer get damage from.

Consequently the target ship can keep returning fire long after they should be dead.

Please get this sorted WG it is a bad bad joke.

 

 

 

[MudMonkey]

I agree. I always found this mechanic strange. They should at least distribute/scatter the damge to other sections.

[Msiiek]

+1

At least make the reduction to be 50% max or something. Like the Blyskawica that eaten 9 torps and survived. Would like to do that in other ships too.

[Flukeyluke]

this is one of those rare times you feel the need to fire AP at DDs since verpen damage still applies

[robihr]

well 0 hp section isnt wrong, but they should introduce penalty when section gets to 0. like -50% speed and any module on that section not usable

[RamirezKurita]

Alternatively, make the damage reduction dependent on the ship. A battleship that has the all-or-nothing armour scheme might reduce it all the way down below 10%, while ships with less expendable sections might still take 50+ or more damage. It would allow for both better historical accuracy as well as giving another balance lever for helping keep the game balanced.

 

It would also help if WG published the sections' relative HP pools in the client, as then players would be both more informed as well as having meaningful discussion would be far more possible because we would have the information we need to talk about it.

[Sake78]

well 0 hp section isnt wrong, but they should introduce penalty when section gets to 0. like -50% speed and any module on that section not usable

 

Can add one more mechanic on top - if section above water line / not hull - gets said debuffs and / or non-repair fire, but it if is under water / hull, as soon as it hits zero it adds flooding (non-repair flooding). Not ideal, but should kinda sorta kill reasonably fast any ship that should be dead anyway.

 

Maybe said "zero" floods or fires can be tweaked based on ship by ship percentage, or HP remaining percentage to achieve whatever a reasonable fast death should be in such case.

 

Just throwing ideas in the pot.

[Eternus_Damnatio]

well 0 hp section isnt wrong, but they should introduce penalty when section gets to 0. like -50% speed and any module on that section not usable

 

Explain how 0 HP section is right.

So say for example the section of the ship that contains the wheel house and command centre of the ship is at 0 HP.

That surely means all the crew and equipment in that area is destroyed so how does the ship still function.

It is a broken mechanic nothing else to say.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

It's interesting when BB lose most of their sections of ship and become able to take obscene amounts of damage.

 

Comical also when a DD tanks a torp and just carries on rocking... 

[BillydSquid]

Or at the very least give those sections which have been destroyed reduced damage, but it should cause some damage, hits are still going to cause damage like breaching bulkheads, increased drag caused by hull damage etc. 

 

Its just to too simplistic at the moment and as you said ridiculous that an area can take multiple hits and receive no damage or have any  negative effect on the ship's performance even if it's not damage. 

 

For instance if after the new section of a ship is destroyed, further hits have a chance of causing drag to slow speed or increase the turning circle due to shells punching further holes in the compartment's hull section and compromising its draft. Okay no damage but there should be some form of performance degradation. I'd certainly favour performance degradation can the endless HE spam vs BBs, which just cause HP loss. Okay it still could cause some damage, but what about reduced gun efficiency in RoF or accuracy instead of simply stacking damage over time clicks on a BB while the crew has to deal with shrapnel and fight fires. 

 

HE spamming just seems a bit meh boring even if it is an arcade game. 

[robihr]

 

Explain how 0 HP section is right.

So say for example the section of the ship that contains the wheel house and command centre of the ship is at 0 HP.

That surely means all the crew and equipment in that area is destroyed so how does the ship still function.

It is a broken mechanic nothing else to say.

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1675837_WWII_Ship_Damage.html

[Sake78]

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1675837_WWII_Ship_Damage.html

 

Thinking more about it, add a "plus one hit" rule, where, if a section gets to 0 HP, next hit in that section causes detonation, or instakill, based on the idea that structural damage is too high. OR, if we really want to be anal about things, we remove the rule alltogether and give decreased dmg by a whatever percent to severely damaged sections (anything between 0 and 100% of base dmg, or percentage of lowest denominator).

[RamirezKurita]

 

Thinking more about it, add a "plus one hit" rule, where, if a section gets to 0 HP, next hit in that section causes detonation, or instakill, based on the idea that structural damage is too high. OR, if we really want to be anal about things, we remove the rule alltogether and give decreased dmg by a whatever percent to severely damaged sections (anything between 0 and 100% of base dmg, or percentage of lowest denominator).

 

But the whole point of the all-or-nothing armour scheme was that some parts of the ship were literally completely unnecessary for the ship to function in combat. For example, the Colorados could continue fighting (albeit at reduced effectiveness due to being lower in the water and lacking radar) even if their upper decks, bow, stern and superstructure were completely riddled with holes and rendered completely unusable as well as being structural deadweight and providing no bouyancy. They were designed such that the unarmoured sections were expendable, so forcing a detonation when the expendable sections are gone would actually turn the armour layout into a major disadvantage rather than being the generally most effective layout.

[ShockPirat]

 

Explain how 0 HP section is right.

So say for example the section of the ship that contains the wheel house and command centre of the ship is at 0 HP.

That surely means all the crew and equipment in that area is destroyed so how does the ship still function.

It is a broken mechanic nothing else to say.

 

That happened to USS Johnston.

"Johnston took a hit which knocked out one forward gun and damaged another, and her bridge was rendered untenable by fires and explosions resulting from a hit in her 40 mm ready ammunition locker. Evans—who had shifted his command to Johnston's fantail—was yelling orders through an open hatch to men turning her rudder by hand."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Johnston_%28DD-557%29#Under_attack_from_all_sides

 

The easiest way to "fix" it would be to make some damage spill over to neighbor sections.

[Eternus_Damnatio]

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1675837_WWII_Ship_Damage.html

 

All you are showing is damaged ships that were not sunk.

Nowhere does it state that if they were to receive more hits on the same location they would take no damage.

If you continue to hit a damaged and already weakened area you will do more damage not 0.

Think of it this way if you bend a credit card once it weakens keep bending and it will snap eventually.

The same applies to metal that is being heated and cooled rapidly by explosions and concussive blasts.

[Eternus_Damnatio]

 

That happened to USS Johnston.

"Johnston took a hit which knocked out one forward gun and damaged another, and her bridge was rendered untenable by fires and explosions resulting from a hit in her 40 mm ready ammunition locker. Evans—who had shifted his command to Johnston's fantail—was yelling orders through an open hatch to men turning her rudder by hand."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Johnston_%28DD-557%29#Under_attack_from_all_sides

 

The easiest way to "fix" it would be to make some damage spill over to neighbor sections.

 

Moving the command of a ship also does not mean it can't take more damage when shot in the same location.

Just shows that crew can survive and adapt.

[Aotearas]

 

Explain how 0 HP section is right.

So say for example the section of the ship that contains the wheel house and command centre of the ship is at 0 HP.

That surely means all the crew and equipment in that area is destroyed so how does the ship still function.

It is a broken mechanic nothing else to say.

 

Well, do be fair there have been historic examples of such events happening and the vessel was still going. The Fletcher that got wrecked by Kongou in WW2 took a shell straight though its machinery and shortly after the command tower/deck got obliberated. The captain who just barely survived continued to issue orders from the ship's aft.

 

Then again, by that point all the ship could do was keeping itself afloat and shooting with whatever peashooters that were still operational.

 

I do understand the basic idea behind the system. But it's implemented extremely poorly and in a way that doesn't reflect realistic consequency of such damage in the slightest. Yes, a ship doesn't automatically sink even with her bow nearly blown clean off. Watertight compartments etc. were engineered to that express purpose. But could such ships be in any form combat effective? Lolno.

 

 

The big issue with this mechanic isn't even equally distributed among the ship classes. Shooting a BB and getting zero damage due to damage saturation? No big deal, adjust aim a bit and shoot up another section. BB is big and slow, easy to hit.

A DD however is a whole different story. Small, manouvreable and fast. Tough luck trying to aim for a specific point.

 

Imho it would go a long way already if DDs were exempt from the damage saturation mechanic. Then WG could look at the stats and see how things work.

 

Definately not a fan of the mechanic as it is right now!

[RichardNixon]

A DD however is a whole different story. Small, manouvreable and fast. Tough luck trying to aim for a specific point.

 

Note that there is a practical workaround: Just load AP against low-HP DDs. Overpenetrations don't depend on module HP so they always deal damage.

 

Not an argument in favour of the mechanic. You might be waiting a while before WG fix anything.

[von_Boeg]

To me this is simple: If a section have 0 HP, that section do not exist any more. Either model that section as blown away with a likely sinking as result, or it can take more damage until it do not exist any more.

[RamirezKurita]

To me this is simple: If a section have 0 HP, that section do not exist any more. Either model that section as blown away with a likely sinking as result, or it can take more damage until it do not exist any more.

 

Likely sinking? Warships were designed to still operate with everything outside the citadel ruined. Even little cruisers could survive having their entire bow ripped off as long as the citadel was intact:

 

[Nargoth73]

I remember in Battletech (the game) when an area is destroyed, the area next to it takes damage. Would only be logical to have that in WoWs as well. Your bow is destroyed, so the shells can penetrate further without much difficulty.

[KL_7]

Maybe a better way to implement that mechanic could be by likening 0hp sections to permanent incapacitations.

 

Bow  section at 0hp? Reduce max speed/acceleration and increase turn radius (ruined hydrodynamics).

Superstructure at 0hp? Make everything operate on limp mode: increase rudder shift time, longer cooldowns on consummables (centralized commandment blown off → orders can't travel as fast through the ship); reduce accuracy/range (main rangefinders/artillery calculating devices destroyed) and so on.

 

Those are just a couple ideas I just had but I believe it would offer a more realistic approach than just making a section immune to damage.

 

On the other hand I also believe there's very little chance such a system would ever be implemented because it would definitely be too complicated for the average player to understand^TM 

 

 

 

 

[von_Boeg]

 

Likely sinking? Warships were designed to still operate with everything outside the citadel ruined. Even little cruisers could survive having their entire bow ripped off as long as the citadel was intact:

 

 

Yes, likely sinking. I do not know how detailed the sections are on the ships ingame, but I suspect that there are not more then three or four of them. The loss of the Pittsburgh bow is hardly one third of the ship, so this can not be compared. Besides, IF the models were more accurate such a loss as this one would make the ship useless for the fight since the speed would have to be reduced.

[cro_pwr]

 

Likely sinking? Warships were designed to still operate with everything outside the citadel ruined. Even little cruisers could survive having their entire bow ripped off as long as the citadel was intact:

 

 

so you are telling me, that cruiser could take 5 more torps without sinking? cool, didn't know that...

I see you know a lot about naval history, so pls, could you show me 1 DD (any DD really) getting hit by 3 long lances and surviving the battle / even continuing to fight back and sinking few more enemies?

 

OT: this is most likely the 1 thing i couldn't agree more... it should be fixed / reworked / removed completely...

[Eternus_Damnatio]

 

Likely sinking? Warships were designed to still operate with everything outside the citadel ruined. Even little cruisers could survive having their entire bow ripped off as long as the citadel was intact:

 

 

Again people seem to be missing the point yes the ship could still operate that is not the problem.

The problem is the fact that the ship section gets to 0 HP and takes no further damage in that section while still operating at full efficiency.

Take your own example that ship would be slowed dramatically and with the gaping hole in the bow it would actually be easier to damage that ship as the outer armour is gone.