Radar / Hydro should have a negative side effect

[Fogas21]

Let me explain through a situation.

I was the last ship alive in my Minekaze, came around an island and ran into an enemy CA. I popped smoke, she used her hydro/radar (I don't know which ship has which but that's not important here, because as far as I know they work similar), the logical thing and I have no problem with that. But as I got deeper in my smoke I was unable to SEE the CA but she kept me spotted by her radar/hydro, and I have zero problem with staying spotted, smoke was a bit OP. In my case alone against multiple ships I was spotted but I couldn't SEE anybody because of my own smoke.

The change I suggest is when somebody gets spotted by hydro/radar they should spot back the ship that used the consumable. Almost like HEAR where the hydro/radar comes from. This counter spot should only be possible within the hydro/radar range.

It wouldn't be unbalanced because I had multiple kills against DDs while they were in their smoke because I saw where the smoke was->few torps in their smoke and just wait for the results. With this I mean everybody can see where a DD is when it uses smoke generator for obvious reasons but there is no negative sideffect on hydro/radar. I see a pattern emerging in consumables (or in basic features), almost everything has a positive and a negativ side.

 

For example

nitro:+speed -increased spotting range (edited)

non carrier launched fighter/spotter plane: +the function of the plane -the plane can give your position away

smoke: +decreased spotting range -very visible

fighter strafing (the stuff you can do with fighter planes): +increased dmg -just in one locked direction

automatic return of planes to carriers: +fastest way -gives your general position away

(DD torps: +deals huge dmg -can give your general position and travel direction away)

 

I hope you understand my idea and I'm open to any suggestions

(sorry for my bad english)

[Sonic_157]

Let me explain through a situation.

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.....

.....

 

 

Well, realistically speaking, ships can (at least) detect the general direction of sonar pings.

Hydrophones on the other hand were completely passive and the enemy ships were unable to detect anything.

 

Your idea isn't bad actually but i don't know if that would make the use of Hydro balanced.

Maybe it has already been considered in the past.

 

Regarding consumables, you are wrong about "Engine Boost". It does not add to your detectability.

Also, Radar has no negative effect for the ship carrying it.

 

 

p.s. Your English is fine! :-)

[Tyrendian89]

first off, your english is perfectly fine and understandable - no need to apologize for it at all! We've all seen soooooo much worse in that regard

 

Your idea would require a complete rework of the spotting mechanics - because, right now, there is no "This ship is only visible to this ship on the enemy team but not this other one" besides render distance cap. So it's very unlikely that it's going to happen any time soon. Would such a rework be a good idea? I don't think so - spotting mechanics are sometimes confusing enough for newer players, and you'd have to set up pretty detailed rules for when which ship can transmit spotting information to which other ships etc. Doesn't seem worth the effort to me, especially since it's only going to be relevant in very few corner cases.

[Fogas21]

Sonic_157, on 20 April 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

Regarding consumables, you are wrong about "Engine Boost". It does not add to your detectability.

 

The engine boost when it was first introduced it gave around 100-200m to my detection, but I don't know what is the situation now. It wasn't much, but the speed boost wasn't either, only a few knots.

[Sonic_157]

 

The engine boost when it was first introduced it gave around 100-200m to my detection, but I don't know what is the situation now. It wasn't much, but the speed boost wasn't either, only a few knots.

 

 

It has been changed. Now only firing your guns (and AA) and your ship being on fire add to your detectability.

 

 

 

[Fogas21]

Tyrendian89, on 20 April 2016 - 09:03 PM, said:

"This ship is only visible to this ship on the enemy team but not this other one"

 

Sorry if it wasn't clear, this feature will spot the ship that uses radar/hydro to every ally. Only ships within the used radar/hydro range can detect it. This way there wouldn't be any big change in the spotting mechanic you can already tell if you are spotted by radar/hydro with the different situational awareness icon.

[Fogas21]

It has been changed. Now only firing your guns (and AA) and your ship being on fire add to your detectability.

Thanks for the info, now I can get closer with boost

I will edit the original post

[indycar]

 Radar has no negative effect for the ship carrying it.

 

 

wait really so i can use barrage, scout and radar on my cruiser ?

[Vaderan]

Speaking from a DD players view (i gave up with more team dependend classes on PvP without any division support for obvious reasons), i have to disagree with your idea, though i can feel your pain. I know what burden lies on you when you are the last man standing in your DD, trying to compensate for all the fail of your team.

However, the situation you described is fully intentional, for a reason. DDs, especially those like with characteristics of the Minekaze, are probably the most independend and powerfull class in this game these days, when in the right hands.

Hydro and Radar are a necessary counter against these DDs, and they are still way too inefficient and situational, to be of real use. In fact, most CAs have to sacrifice their Barrage skill to be able to carry hydro (don´t know for radar though), which is already a real impact and drawback.

 

The fact you (or me) get shot within our own smoke, because the enemy uses hydro or radar, while we are not able to fire back, is not the cruisers fault, but our own. We want to do the sneaky hit and run thingy, but this time (which happens how often? ! in 5 times we pull this stuff off?) the target has the intended counter, and it is ready. We try to save our hide, starting the smoke screen, but fail this time and put ourseves by our own will into an even worse situation.

I really, really don´t see any point, why a class, which is supposed to counter us, and fails in this role more often than it succeeds, thanks to other game mechanics, should in addition receive a drawback for this one out of 5 times when it is finally able to do what it is supposed to do.

If you turn your idea around: where would the IJN DDs stay, if the target of our torpedo attack (or even all nearby enemies) receive information about your location, as soon as the torpedoes are launched?

We are never afraid to pull of deadly attacks on our targets unnoticed, leaving the target unaware and unprepared, how are we even allowed to ask for different treatment, if we put ourselves by our own hand in a similar situation?

 

Pretty one sided view of justice, if you ask me...

[Fogas21]

...

 

Pretty one sided view of justice, if you ask me...

 

They have better guns and more HP (and torps in many case) (from an IJN DD player)

What if the ship detected by radar/hydro can only hear "pings" in every 5-10 seconds->the radar/hydro user shows up just for a few (1-2) seconds

[BuccaneerBill]

Sonar and hydro are the counter to smoke, simple as. You can't have everything. I'd like to see more ships with radar.

[Xerkics]

Let me explain through a situation.

I was the last ship alive in my Minekaze, came around an island and ran into an enemy CA. I popped smoke, she used her hydro/radar (I don't know which ship has which but that's not important here, because as far as I know they work similar), the logical thing and I have no problem with that. But as I got deeper in my smoke I was unable to SEE the CA but she kept me spotted by her radar/hydro, and I have zero problem with staying spotted, smoke was a bit OP. In my case alone against multiple ships I was spotted but I couldn't SEE anybody because of my own smoke.

The change I suggest is when somebody gets spotted by hydro/radar they should spot back the ship that used the consumable. Almost like HEAR where the hydro/radar comes from. This counter spot should only be possible within the hydro/radar range.

It wouldn't be unbalanced because I had multiple kills against DDs while they were in their smoke because I saw where the smoke was->few torps in their smoke and just wait for the results. With this I mean everybody can see where a DD is when it uses smoke generator for obvious reasons but there is no negative sideffect on hydro/radar. I see a pattern emerging in consumables (or in basic features), almost everything has a positive and a negativ side.

 

For example

nitro:+speed -increased spotting range (edited)

non carrier launched fighter/spotter plane: +the function of the plane -the plane can give your position away

smoke: +decreased spotting range -very visible

fighter strafing (the stuff you can do with fighter planes): +increased dmg -just in one locked direction

automatic return of planes to carriers: +fastest way -gives your general position away

(DD torps: +deals huge dmg -can give your general position and travel direction away)

 

I hope you understand my idea and I'm open to any suggestions

(sorry for my bad english)

Thats not really a weakness thats their visual representation of how they work. A weakness of firing torps would be becoming visible when firing for example. Knowing that the dd was in a random general direction possibly going in random general direction from you as well a while ago when it fired the torps which is completely unhelpfull to you at the point of seeing them is not really a weakness.

[ScratxNeko]

Vaderan, on 20 April 2016 - 09:54 PM, said:

...

 

Pretty one sided view of justice, if you ask me...

 

They have better guns and more HP (and torps in many case) (from an IJN DD player)

What if the ship detected by radar/hydro can only hear "pings" in every 5-10 seconds->the radar/hydro user shows up just for a few (1-2) seconds

 

They're also not ninjas and blind firing rarely works when you have a general idea of where the target is, let alone when you don't.

 

Sorry mate, hydro is meant to counter DDs and it's a limited use consumable that you must choose over defensive fire. As is most people don't grab it over DF. Add drawbacks to it and/or nerf it and nobody will likely use it.

[waxx25]

Ahh the radar tears are finally here. Never saw this coming. How dare does that big mean cruiser spot the dd.

[Fogas21]

Sonar and hydro are the counter to smoke, simple as. You can't have everything. I'd like to see more ships with radar.

 

I just want to see more rock-paper-scissor stuff.

[KaraMon]

So now DD QQ about OP sonar/radar? Interesting

[Fogas21]

Ahh the radar tears are finally here. Never saw this coming. How dare does that big mean cruiser spot the dd.

 

I wanted to make sure in my first post I have nothing against hydro/radar, it is an awesome feature.

My spotting idea won't mean I will be able to shoot back. (I probably wouldn't, maybe some torps, but the hydro/radar spots them further away anyway)

This could add a bit of reality in an arcade game

[Fogas21]

So now DD QQ about OP sonar/radar? Interesting

 

I don't thint it's OP

[waxx25]

 

I wanted to make sure in my first post I have nothing against hydro/radar, it is an awesome feature.

My spotting idea won't mean I will be able to shoot back. (I probably wouldn't, maybe some torps, but the hydro/radar spots them further away anyway)

This could add a bit of reality in an arcade game

 

in reality a 90 meter destroyer is not invisible to a battleship at 7km

[Fogas21]

 

in reality a 90 meter destroyer is not invisible to a battleship at 7km

 

true

it was just an idea, but now I see the flaws

[AnotherDuck]

Sonar's fine. Radar has problems, though I've said enough about that elsewhere.

 

By the way, since no one mentioned it (that I saw), radar replaces the airplane, so you can have it along with AA barrage or sonar, and healing.

[AgarwaenME]

 

in reality a 90 meter destroyer is not invisible to a battleship at 7km

 

But then in reality IJN torps were pretty much entirely undetectable until they hit your ship too.

 

For every "realistic" point one can ask for, there's a "realistic" point to take it the other way.

 

As it is, there are costs to having those abilities, which are opportunity costs, especially for hydroacoustic.

[ghostbuster_]

Let me explain through a situation.

I was the last ship alive in my Minekaze, came around an island and ran into an enemy CA. I popped smoke, she used her hydro/radar (I don't know which ship has which but that's not important here, because as far as I know they work similar), the logical thing and I have no problem with that. But as I got deeper in my smoke I was unable to SEE the CA but she kept me spotted by her radar/hydro, and I have zero problem with staying spotted, smoke was a bit OP. In my case alone against multiple ships I was spotted but I couldn't SEE anybody because of my own smoke.

The change I suggest is when somebody gets spotted by hydro/radar they should spot back the ship that used the consumable. Almost like HEAR where the hydro/radar comes from. This counter spot should only be possible within the hydro/radar range.

It wouldn't be unbalanced because I had multiple kills against DDs while they were in their smoke because I saw where the smoke was->few torps in their smoke and just wait for the results. With this I mean everybody can see where a DD is when it uses smoke generator for obvious reasons but there is no negative sideffect on hydro/radar. I see a pattern emerging in consumables (or in basic features), almost everything has a positive and a negativ side.

 

For example

nitro:+speed -increased spotting range (edited)

non carrier launched fighter/spotter plane: +the function of the plane -the plane can give your position away

smoke: +decreased spotting range -very visible

fighter strafing (the stuff you can do with fighter planes): +increased dmg -just in one locked direction

automatic return of planes to carriers: +fastest way -gives your general position away

(DD torps: +deals huge dmg -can give your general position and travel direction away)

 

I hope you understand my idea and I'm open to any suggestions

(sorry for my bad english)

 

is he even serious? this is one of the funniest posts i have ever seen hear. 

[waxx25]

 

But then in reality IJN torps were pretty much entirely undetectable until they hit your ship too.

 

For every "realistic" point one can ask for, there's a "realistic" point to take it the other way.

 

As it is, there are costs to having those abilities, which are opportunity costs, especially for hydroacoustic.

 

and in reality there was no aim assist for torps

[Kazomir]

Im speaking as a (Mainly) DD player:

 

Are you joking me? You expect to get into 3km of an enemy cruiser and just pop smoke and survive? Thats not how it's done at all!!!