US T7+ cruisers, DE or AFT?

[VC381]

So I'm almost done with my Cleveland grind and am hyped to get my Pensacola. My captain just hit Level 10 and I'm wondering what skill to get, I plan to move him up the line in the long term. I'm not keen on building pure AA escort so my instinct based on playing IJN cruisers is to default to DE. But I read that US AP shells have significantly better penetration at greater angles, so now I'm not sure it's worth it if I'll be using AP more than HE. As far as I can tell the other skills at T4 are duds or too specialised so my choice is down to those two.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Depends. If you rely on solo carrying - Demolition Expert is way to go. And don't think that you will not use HE cause AP is good. HE is still ammo of choice. If you're more team oriented, go with AFT. 
I got two 18 points skippers for Des Moines:
1. Solo carry: BoS + SA (2 points), EM + Fire Prevention (4 points), SI (3 points), DE (4 points), camo (5 points) [you can swap BoS + Fire prevention for High Alert or Vigilance]

2. Team escort: BFT + SA (2 points), EM + Fire prevention (4 points), SI (3 points), AFT (4 points), camo (5 points) 

[T_H_0_R]

I must say that I find it surprising that you use Fire Prevention skill Dropsiq... In general considered one of the most useless skills out there. For an anti burn build I'd go with BOS and DCM II and if possible a flag to really shave off fire duration. Do correct me if I'm wrong through.

 

Else on second row I like to use IFA because of one and only reason: when dueling with other CA and there is still one BB afloat under 20 km. If I don't see my target gun flash this tells me to turn immediately. IFA is mandatory for USN CA, and I even value it more over EM as it takes 1 second of tunnel vision to be deleted. Hence my survival rate in Pensacola.

 

Used DE on both Pensa and NO and did not see a difference. Thus I take AFT with all USN CA with possibly DM being the exception when I unlock her due to already great AA range and insane ROF. AFT extends range on secondaries - that are on both Pensa and NO very useful in close fights with DDs.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 I must say that I find it surprising that you use Fire Prevention skill Dropsiq... In general considered one of the most useless skills out there. For an anti burn build I'd go with BOS and DCM II and if possible a flag to really shave off fire duration. Do correct me if I'm wrong through.

I wouldn't take it if I could spend it elsewhere. But I'm very fond of Basics of Survi, so I'm stuck with 2 points. So either I go with BFT and Loader skills from tier 1, or IFA from tier 2 (but I already have SA). But to tell you the truth, I could live with 16 points not 18. And I'm still faaaaar away from 19th point  

So, for solo carry I try to pick stuff that boost my survivability as much as possible. Hence BoS, Intendent, Camo. I would also High Alert, but I would have to drop BoS or Awareness - a no no for me. So I'm stuck with 2 points. And from all useless stuff I can choose with, I choose Fire Prevention, cause I'm burning damn often because of my playstyle - I think it somewhat help, but can't tell you how much  

 

[VC381]

Thanks for your input. I think that "solo-carrying" is a bit of a strong phrase to apply for someone of average skill like myself, but I do prefer to go out and fight, flank, lone wolf a bit sometimes. If HE is still the ammo of choice, and as long as the CV population is as low as it is, then DE is probably my choice.

 

How's the gun spread? Do they desperately need the -7% or is that upgrade slot better used on something else?

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Again, it depends For solo - always dispersion. For teamgames - I would go with buffed AA. 

 

Remember that captain skills are a matter of personal choice, apart from few "must haves". Situational Awareness, Intendent (for me it's a must have, but some dudes play without it with good results), Camo and BoS. That's staples for me, rest is pretty much decided by your playstyle. If you like solohunting - I would choose DE.

[VC381]

I don't see the point of superintendent on cruisers until you start getting the heal. At the moment I run high alert as my T3 skill for all cruisers except Kutuzov (I love the smoke too much). Maybe one day if I get to Tier 9 I will change it.

 

For dispersion, I used to use it on everything but recently I played a few ships without it and honestly even on BBs I can't tell the difference, doesn't really seem to do anything for me. I will probably play Pensacola without that upgrade first, see if I really need it and decide later.

 

But the choice is linked, if I don't care about dispersion and put the AA module there it makes more sense to get AFT and really max the AA range. Better focus both upgrades and skills on the same thing than spread out, no?

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 I don't see the point of superintendent on cruisers until you start getting the heal. At the moment I run high alert as my T3 skill for all cruisers except Kutuzov (I love the smoke too much). Maybe one day if I get to Tier 9 I will change it.

yeah, I'm talking about tier X CA's. I take High Alert until tier IX and then I reset my skipper.

 

 For dispersion, I used to use it on everything but recently I played a few ships without it and honestly even on BBs I can't tell the difference, doesn't really seem to do anything for me. I will probably play Pensacola without that upgrade first, see if I really need it and decide later. 

Dunno man. I take it on every CA. 7% is not much, but it actually can make a difference. The problem is - you can't really measure it

 

 But the choice is linked, if I don't care about dispersion and put the AA module there it makes more sense to get AFT and really max the AA range. Better focus both upgrades and skills on the same thing than spread out, no?

Yup, go hard or go home.

 

[Spithas]

Regarding the modifications:

 

I've played both Pensacola and Cleveland so far with AA range increase mod. I honestly can't remember a single time where i caught my self thinking "Wish i had Accuracy Mod on now".

 

So far my accuracy with Pensa is 40% and even though i have only 10 games in it atm most of them were T8 games so i was playing from range most of the time. This also allows me to ditch AFT in favor of DE which is quite useful. AFT + AA mod is simply overkill unless you are divisioning with CV.

 

Regarding Dropsiq's Builds:

Do you use premium consumables? Also have you ever considered Expert loader? I know Des Moines has a 6 Sec reload but since my Cruiser play has started to shift from HE dominated play to "Always look for that chance to AP salvo". I am even considering ditching Superintendent on my Zao to get it.

Currently at a 15 point skill captain in the Pensa but my 16th skill is going to be expert loader. 14 sec reload makes me lose far too many AP wrecking salvo chances specially when it comes down to cruiser vs cruiser duels.
 

[Kurbain]

Demolition Expert.

 

The AP shells of the US CAs are definitely excellent because they do not ricochet as easily as those of other nations (Auto-bounce only from 65° onwards instead of 50°), but HE should still be your ammo of choice if somebody is not showing broadside, especially once you reach the Des Moines, which is the best flamethrower in the game.

 

Also great against DDs which are spotted with Radar. 30/35 seconds are often not enough to kill them considering the slow firing rate of the New Orleans/Baltimore, but if you can set them on fire after their repair you might kill them that way.

Managed to kill 2 DDs with fires after they disappeared yesterday in my New Orleans.

 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 I've played both Pensacola and Cleveland so far with AA range increase mod. I honestly can't remember a single time where i caught my self thinking "Wish i had Accuracy Mod on now".

Well, like I said, you won't feel it. But when the range is 18 km... yeah I think it actually makes a difference. And AA mod is, well, questionable with CV absence. If i would have CV every game - I would think about it. In current meta you do some shots at long range, especially with Des.

btw Spithas: it seems that Pensa and NO has the same time for shells to reach target. Let me know if you feel it isn't right when you get NO. I seem to hit a lot easier in Pensa then in NO. Maybe I'm skewered by Des, but something feels wrong.

 

 Do you use premium consumables? Also have you ever considered Expert loader? I know Des Moines has a 6 Sec reload but since my Cruiser play has started to shift from HE dominated play to "Always look for that chance to AP salvo".

Cmoooon. I'm the Des King (was :< some dude and Sander took my record recently, have to work hard for it again :< ). I use premiums on each ship I drive. I also look for AP salvoes, especially in CA vs CA fights. But if I have HE loaded I don't really want to switch it asap. You know, usually you set the dude on fire with first salvo, so either he wastes his repair, or you have some free fire damage. EL is a interesting choice sure. But my gamestyle is very aggressive - that's my biggest flaw as a player, I'm impatient - which means I don't have problems with DPS, I have problems with surviving Also, I usually sneak on my prey, so I have a lot of time to choose ammo I want to use. It's a tough choice. The best one for me would be High Alert or Vigilance, but I can't do it without dropping one tier I perk :<

 

 Currently at a 15 point skill captain in the Pensa but my 16th skill is going to be expert loader. 14 sec reload makes me lose far too many AP wrecking salvo chances specially when it comes down to cruiser vs cruiser duels.

Yeah, it's a different story with Pensa. Two aspects: camo and reload makes loader more viable. And you won't be burning as much in Pensa as you will be in Des. 

 

   

 

[Spithas]

Reason i am asking about the premium consumables is BOS you picked on 1 build. With premium Damage Control this skill loses "strength"... and high alert becomes nearly useless too.

[Kurbain]

btw Spithas: it seems that Pensa and NO has the same time for shells to reach target. Let me know if you feel it isn't right when you get NO. I seem to hit a lot easier in Pensa then in NO. Maybe I'm skewered by Des, but something feels wrong.

 

I've unlocked the New Orleans yesterday and I've felt no difference between the Pensacola and New Orleans in that regard. My main battery hit ratio is exactly the same in both ships at the moment.

 

To me the New Orleans feels like a clear upgrade with its much better concealment and armor.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

I'm aware of it. For solo games I need to max my survi as much as possible. You will see it in Balti propably. To be effective you will have to be closer - DD's will set you on fire, CA will set you on fire, CV will set you on fire. It's a bit easier to survive with few secs less to repair and few secs less fires.  

Again - this might be different for somebody that doesn't play as close as I do.

[T_H_0_R]

I concur. Extra AA range or something else over gun precision upgrade.

 

As for AFT being an overkill with maxed out AA I wouldn't agree. I find that when there is a CV in the match that 7.2 km range allows me not to hug a friendly BB in order to cover him with DF on time to panic the incoming bombers. Especially when you consider the AA nerf NO and Pensa received with 0.5.3. Now the max obtainable range is 6 km.

 

There are also other factors in play - MM and concealment. Pensa has BB concealment so you will want to stay back during the initial phase of the match and cover your friendly ships. NO OTOH has phenomenal concealment allowing you to sneak upon other CA, and it has radar. Thus I had Pensa built for max AA and NO as a DD hunter with gun precision upgrade and Hydro & Radar. Pensa ends up in T5 matches = seal clubbing. NO ends up in T10 more than being top tier. This means CA with heal and lots more HP. You will want that concealment and any other help available.

 

Baltimore I found has great accuracy under 12 km. Might be placebo effect but seems better than NO with gun precision upgrade even though they seem the same on paper. Baltimore also gets lots of XP for shooting down planes. And overall earns good XP for me. Like Cleve before, you can again have 7.2km AA range on her so I set her up like that.

 

EDIT: Used EL on Pensa. Does help when DD is spotted or CA suddenly comes out behind an island.

[S4h3L]

 To be effective you will have to be closer - DD's will set you on fire, CA will set you on fire, CV will set you on fire. It's a bit easier to survive with few secs less to repair and few secs less fires.  

Again - this might be different for somebody that doesn't play as close as I do.

 

when you get really close even BBs sets you in fire 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 when you get really close even BBs sets you in fire 

They sure do, but usually either I torp them from 2 km range, or I whisper "here's johnny" and ram them if I'm losing the duel and I'm in US CA

 

[VC381]

Well, my answer to bad accuracy is "get closer" which I think Dropsiq will identify with, although as has been pointed out that's not really feasible in a Pensacola. If I'm going to be spending more time at long range I might get more mileage out of the accuracy mod but it depends what I'm shooting at (I usually don't deliberately go DD hunting). I definitely don't think I need it for burning BBs, but it might give an edge in CA duels.

 

Hmm... Good points all round, still a tough choice, will have to play the ship first and see how it feels.

[Kurbain]

I also prefer the AA module because it allows you to support other players in your team more easily.
Considering CV players rarely attack US CAs, you do not have to utilize your AA for self-defense often.

However, I still consider the accuracy module a valid choice. It may not provide as much of a bonus as it does for BBs, but it's a decent buff and at least against DDs every little bit helps.
I read about the good accuracy of cruisers quite often, but against DDs it is still not good enough.

Against IJN DDs in particular a large amount of my shots miss even at close range because of their low profile.
Since US CAs are especially suited for DD hunting now that they got radar, it is a shame if you spot a DD 5 KM away that is standing still and half your salvo misses because they fly above the DD even though you aimed directly at it.
Better accuracy also helps to hit the citadels of cruisers more reliably.

[VC381]

[Duplicate glitch]

[VC381]

 

Well, played my first three games in the Pensacola last night and I have to say I'm quite impressed. The turret traverse however is killing me. I'm really tempted to use the Main Battery Mod 2 at least until I get the upgrades.

 

Accuracy wise it feels like she has railguns. 6-8 hits per salvo on BBs at max range, 6 hits per salvo on cruisers at 12km, 5 hits per salvo on Fubuki at 10km, 2-3 citadels per salvo on cruisers <9km. I made 50k AP damage on my first game (ok I was clubbing Nurns and Furus but still). Yeah, don't think I need the accuracy mod.

 

Fire chance seems OK but could be better, leaning towards DE. 2/3 games no CV, got a few plane kills in the other, AA seems good enough without buffs.

 

[piritskenyer]

Well, played my first three games in the Pensacola last night and I have to say I'm quite impressed. The turret traverse however is killing me. I'm really tempted to use the Main Battery Mod 2 at least until I get the upgrades.

 

Accuracy wise it feels like she has railguns. 6-8 hits per salvo on BBs at max range, 6 hits per salvo on cruisers at 12km, 5 hits per salvo on Fubuki at 10km, 2-3 citadels per salvo on cruisers <9km. I made 50k AP damage on my first game (ok I was clubbing Nurns and Furus but still). Yeah, don't think I need the accuracy mod.

 

Fire chance seems OK but could be better, leaning towards DE. 2/3 games no CV, got a few plane kills in the other, AA seems good enough without buffs.

 

When you upgrade the hull and the guns, the turret traverse becomes much better. Blow free xp on her instead of money for a mod you'll have to destroy when you get the ship upgraded.

 

IMO AA is going to be good enough if you have BFT. The guns will only get better: better AP dmg, pen and normalisation, but the HE will remain the same. 

[VC381]

 

When you upgrade the hull and the guns, the turret traverse becomes much better. Blow free xp on her instead of money for a mod you'll have to destroy when you get the ship upgraded.

 

IMO AA is going to be good enough if you have BFT. The guns will only get better: better AP dmg, pen and normalisation, but the HE will remain the same. 

 

I don't have a spare point to blow on BFT at the moment but I'll consider it in the long term.

 

I wouldn't necessarily need to destroy the module, fully upgraded I work out it still brings my traverse down from 27 seconds to 23, which sounds pretty awesome, especially with the decreased rudder shift you get on the B hull. If I don't want to go down the secondaries/AA route and I don't feel the need for the accuracy mod I would probably just keep it.

[piritskenyer]

 

I don't have a spare point to blow on BFT at the moment but I'll consider it in the long term.

 

I wouldn't necessarily need to destroy the module, fully upgraded I work out it still brings my traverse down from 27 seconds to 23, which sounds pretty awesome, especially with the decreased rudder shift you get on the B hull. If I don't want to go down the secondaries/AA route and I don't feel the need for the accuracy mod I would probably just keep it.

 

Okay, let me rephrase: your augmented turret turn rate is no good if you lose out RoF. 

[lankylad11_lankylad]

BFT doesn't work on the main battery guns of tier 7 + cruisers (except Atlanta), this is about AA defence.  I would say get AFT because you should be firing a mixture of AP and HE anyway, mainly AP particularly at other cruisers, and it can work at long range against battleships as well, so DE wouldn't help there, and you want a good AA score it being an American cruiser