Regarding new torps and captain skills

[SBS]

Considering the next update will give new torps to the Fubuki, Kagero and Shimakaze and the new torps on the Kage and Shima will have very different stats than their old ones, mainly in regards to range and speed. Now this presents a bit of a problem for those players, allready playing at tier 10 and 9, as those players are likely to have well trained captains, and a lot probably chose the captain skill, to trade torp range for more speed.

 

Now this is not so bad currently, as 15km or even 20km leaves plenty of range to be traded for speed, however if these players in the future have to be able to really get the most out of the new 8km torps, they may have to change skills. These new changes to the torps can drastically change the usefullnes of this captain skill, maybe even make it more or less usefull with the 8km torps?

 

It is my question, will players with tier 9 and 10 japanese DD's be able to retrain those captains for free? As some otherwise might have to pay 500 gold for each well trained captain, just to accomodate a balance change. 

 

Is it possible we could get this? What does the rest of you think?

[ColonelPete]

WG said no, up to now.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

Do we eaven know what changes are comming?

[Procrastes]

I highly doubt that Wargaming is going to start reimbursing the playerbase for skill resets due to changes in the ships, equipment and game mechanics, other than in rather special cases such as the major skill revamp we had some months ago. But I could be wrong.

[ilhilh]

Considering the next update will give new torps to the Fubuki, Kagero and Shimakaze and the new torps on the Kage and Shima will have very different stats than their old ones, mainly in regards to range and speed. Now this presents a bit of a problem for those players, allready playing at tier 10 and 9, as those players are likely to have well trained captains, and a lot probably chose the captain skill, to trade torp range for more speed.

 

Now this is not so bad currently, as 15km or even 20km leaves plenty of range to be traded for speed, however if these players in the future have to be able to really get the most out of the new 8km torps, they may have to change skills. These new changes to the torps can drastically change the usefullnes of this captain skill, maybe even make it more or less usefull with the 8km torps?

 

It is my question, will players with tier 9 and 10 japanese DD's be able to retrain those captains for free? As some otherwise might have to pay 500 gold for each well trained captain, just to accomodate a balance change. 

 

Is it possible we could get this? What does the rest of you think?

 

If it was to happen then why only 9 and 10?  My fubuki with the speed increase would protest this restriction.

[IamTroublemaker]

 

If it was to happen then why only 9 and 10?  My fubuki with the speed increase would protest this restriction.

 

Fubuki is getting those torps as well if I understood correctly.

[Xerkics]

This was asked on the ru servers forum in the patch thread and they said there isn't going to be free respec.

[Tyrendian89]

 

Fubuki is getting those torps as well if I understood correctly.

 

Fubuki is getting Ibuki torps, not Zao

[SBS]

Okay, thanks for info guys. Good to know 

 

[ilhilh]

My point is I chose the speed skill (currently on my Fubuki captain) based on the fact I would ultimately want it on my Shima when I eventually get there and now I might not want it at all.

[chazwozza]

It still has the long range torps that take advantage of that skill though?

[Enkidu69]

It still has the long range torps that take advantage of that skill though?

 

And gets new short range ones that won't, while long range torps were hit with a big nerf? Who in their right mind would want -20% range on 8km torps after radars were introduced? Fubuki is also getting new good torps with great speed but shorter range. Almost nobody would take -20% range on them. Not with Fubuki's speed and radars around.

 

This is a big gameplay change and people should get a free reset because of that.

[Mayv]

It still has the long range torps that take advantage of that skill though?

 

The long ranged torps are receiving heavy nerfs, an increase in spotting distance to greater than it was originally before the previous buffs (and remember vigilance and acquisition mod got buff since then as well) and a reduced speed making them much easier to dodge.

 

 

[Doerte]

Well... I've recently considered, promoting my trusted 18-Points-Shima captain to teacher at the Imperial Navy School and replace him with a 15-Points captain, since the "greenhorn" would all the skills I consider necessary while still being able to gain new Skills. (And that old guy will not -> wasted XP)
Readig those patch-notes, I delayed that plan, since WG (i think) said, free re-training will not be available.

I can only tell you, what I personally would do.
Pre-Radar: I'd have considered going for 8km torps, but now

Post-Radar-Implementation (which I think REALLY helps the game): I consider 8km as way too risky. If you run into radar at that range, you're as good as dead. So that leaves those 8km too situational in my mind, too be a good choice.
BUT 8km range with my captain (sacrificing 20% range for +5knots) would leave my captain with 6.4km torp range... and that is in the ranges of a bad joke for a TierX-DD.

Getting to the point of said joke: 15km torps (nerfed)->12km -20% (current capatin skillset) leaves my mighty Shima with a MAX  torp range of 9,6km. Unless I don't re-skill. (I would for sure... 18x25 Gold down the drain. love it!)
I personally think, this leaves only one single torp-skill-combination, that looks even remotely usefull. And that would take a lot of fun out of the meta-game for me.

Being given 4 possible "choices", of which 3 are useless. Leaving just 1 no-brainer to chose, is bad game-design.

To conclude: If these numbers are true, I'll test my Shima a bit... and leave her in the harbor, until she get's buffed again. (did that with old Furutaka, while she sucked. Did that with NO while a.s.o.)
That said: By now, all of this is pure speculation and we'll only know, if the patch arrives. Let us hope, we will not get another patch, that alters the game in such a drastic way, it ends up breaking it somewhere else. Until then, I'll have a tea. Anyone care for a biscuit?

 

See you on the High Seas!
EDIT: thx gr0pah for the hint

[gr0pah]

Pre-Sonar: I'd have considered going for 8km torps, but now

Post-Sonar-Implementation (which I think REALLY helps the game): I consider 8km as way too risky. If you run into sonar at that range, you're as good as dead. So that leaves those 8km too situational in my mind, too be a good choice.

Do you mean sonar (hydro-acoustics) or radar?

[Doerte]

Do you mean sonar (hydro-acoustics) or radar?

 

I meant the "hot new stuff" ;-) So I misspelled. Was talking about the Radar (that I consider a great addition to the game) Will change it. Thx

[Reisen__]

know about the zao torps with the increased torp speed skill = a torp with 6.5 range that does 81 knts

[Xerkics]

The devs on ru said they want to reward people playing more aggressively which is why the torps are faster and there are more options of them and they dont consider there being any skill involved in spamming torps at long range and hoping for the best. And they want to encourage skilled play .

[Kharazas]

This was asked on the ru servers forum in the patch thread and they said there isn't going to be free respec.

 

Maybe there wîll be a gold-discount for that?

[Ubertron_X]

And they want to encourage skilled play .

 

And how then is the I-kill-you button considered skilled play?

[Xerkics]

 

Maybe there wîll be a gold-discount for that?

 

I dont think so also to quote :

 

"Developers post from ru ":

 

The Gameplay of a DD should be focused on being highly mobile and player should be encouraged to take risks  and not pew pewing  torps into a distant foggy far away area hoping a zoomed in BB will catch a couple. 

They are saying that the long distance of current torps promotes boring gameplay the path of least resistance

He has Kagero and he is really looking forward to high speed torps with skill where he can dance on the edge of invisibility to ambush enemy shimakazes and make them eat a couple of super fast torps they will struggle to dodge. Its not cool it doesnt give you adrenalin or sense of accomplishment spamming torps from  behind backs of your fellow team mates. He doesnt find that sort of game play appealing . Your not a ninja warrior you are some sort of long range slinger then.

They say that they believe that people should be free to play the way they want but it ultimately shouldnt be at the cost of fun of all the other players but they wan t to make a more aggressive gameplay more appealing with these changes. "

[Kharazas]

 

I dont think so also to quote :

 

"Игровой процесс эсминца должен стремиться к высокой динамике и риску, а не "клац-клац торпедами в туманную даль - авось зазевавшийся в бинокле ЛК поймает парочку"."

The Gameplay of a DD should be focused on being highly mobile and player should be encouraged to take risks  and not pew pewing  torps into a distant foggy far away area hoping a zoomed in BB will catch a couple.

 

Well I agree with the idea. But the current rep-costs don't really encourage that.

[Xerkics]

 

Well I agree with the idea. But the current rep-costs don't really encourage that.

 

Ive translated the entire part of that post on that now see above. Also bear in mind eventually weather will add more to concealment of ships although initially it will only appear as a test in 5-7% of high tier  battles so DD could probably still b e stealthy when the weather is bad. Also they are making sure that people understand there is a new design process where they want to avoid big sweeping changes they are going to introduce small change see how it affects gameplay tinker with it and so on. So Those might not be final changes. They did point out at people complaining that noone is forcing them to load short range torps and that there is still plenty of room for carefull invis firing with correct skills and gear equiped and that the really skilled players will find this patch more rewarding .

[Ilya_Wolf]

The devs on ru said they want to reward people playing more aggressively which is why the torps are faster and there are more options of them and they dont consider there being any skill involved in spamming torps at long range and hoping for the best. And they want to encourage skilled play .

 

With the huge nerfs to the original choices detection range and being forced into 6.4km with the only real option left.. they have effectively destroyed the shimakaze population with this heavy handed decision.

I would have much preferred a cap to the number of DDs per team than this overkill nerf to detection, anyone being hit by long range torps after this patch should be very ashamed.

 

It is already difficult to pull off a close-medium range (6-10km) torpedo run on a decent BB player, 1 torpedo hit every few minutes is meaningless compared to the damage being done by CA & BB every 30 seconds.

Those who arent going to be cursed by having taken torpedo acceleration will be really punishing everyone for instigating this "nerf" i am looking forward to the whining 

[Xerkics]

 

With the huge nerfs to the original choices detection range and being forced into 6.4km with the only real option left.. they have effectively destroyed the shimakaze population with this heavy handed decision.

I would have much preferred a cap to the number of DDs per team than this overkill nerf to detection, anyone being hit by long range torps after this patch should be very ashamed.

 

It is already difficult to pull off a close-medium range (6-10km) torpedo run on a decent BB player, 1 torpedo hit every few minutes is meaningless compared to the damage being done by CA & BB every 30 seconds.

Those who arent going to be cursed by having taken torpedo acceleration will be really punishing everyone for instigating this "nerf" i am looking forward to the whining 

I think thats kinda the point of the changes .