0.5.5 News (Supertest)

[_Zug_Zwang_]

Skill.

 

nice picture deceiving nonetheless ... the problem is obv the mm ... 6 dd's? that is why there are so many torps ...

[Spithas]

 

nice picture deceiving nonetheless ... the problem is obv the mm ... 6 dd's? that is why there are so many torps ...

 

Oh we know. We proposed a simple 3 DD cap per team for the MM ... but the whinny DD mafia and WG didn't want it.

[Crusherheads]

Gearing is totaly OP! ( fight between fubuki and shimikaze, didnt kill any.. reasons at screenshot lol )

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

The picture is for lulz. Take it with a grain of salt. Salt, you see what I did there?

[Ictogan]

Gearing is totaly OP! ( fight between fubuki and shimikaze, didnt kill any.. reasons at screenshot lol )

 

Well, Gearing should be getting a decent buff with the upcoming turret HP increase for all DDs.

[Enkidu69]

Oh god. I just checked. Only high tier ship you have is a freakin Atago, and all battles on tier VIII you have is a whooping 158 Atago games. Bro. You don't even know what are you talking about, you don't even know the game you play. Stop right now while you still can.

 

 

 

And nobody should talk about football unless they play in Barcelona right?

 

When I show average statistics that clearly show Tier 6+ DD's under-performing hard it's because there are so many DD players messing with average statistics. When I show it's also true for 5% top players it's also because of sample size. When I show top15 players for every ship and it still clearly shows that DD's underperform it's because I'm not playing them myself.

 

Hilarious.

[lankylad11_lankylad]

the problem with US DDs and guns has always been shell arc when fighting other DDs. If you asked me which two destroyers I would go DD hunting and knife fighting with other DDs in I would pick the Udaloi and Khabarovsk every day of the week, since 9 second rotation is perfectly acceptable, and you have good alpha plus good rof which is what you need

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

No. You can't talk about differences between Barcelona/Real/Athletico while having a vague idea what football game is about. Right now you know, that they play with a ball, and that there are 2 hoops. Basic stuff. Therefore, you are not prepared enough to have an discussion in which you know only basic stuff. Ictogan is much better suited, and while we disagree on some points, I also agree with him on other (DD vs CV balancing issues ie.). And if you actually payed attention and read what we talked about you might have learned that (sticking to football metaphores) there are 11 players on each team, and that ball crossing white line not always mean it was a score. 

[Panocek]

the problem with US DDs and guns has always been shell arc when fighting other DDs. If you asked me which two destroyers I would go DD hunting and knife fighting with other DDs in I would pick the Udaloi and Khabarovsk every day of the week, since 9 second rotation is perfectly acceptable, and you have good alpha plus good rof which is what you need

 

And (at least) 2km worse detection, which is a lot when it comes to "DD hunting"

[OVanBruce]

If anything I doubt statistics because they are completely isolated from the discussion we are having. There is no clear method that ensure the results of those stats are relevant and valid for the point some people are bringing up here. If you want to use stats to support your idea, come up with proper test methods to extract relevant data.

 

Any conclussion that is reached using the current stats you are pulling is merely speculation and confirmation bias.

[ColonelPete]

Yes, opinions are much more objective.

[KaraMon]

the problem with US DDs and guns has always been shell arc when fighting other DDs. If you asked me which two destroyers I would go DD hunting and knife fighting with other DDs in I would pick the Udaloi and Khabarovsk every day of the week, since 9 second rotation is perfectly acceptable, and you have good alpha plus good rof which is what you need

 

So you have no idea about how to use gunboat DD :p

 

Knife fight against other dd in Khaba/Udaloy is last thing you want to do . 10km + stalinium rain is the way to go .

 

Simply you can't get close undetected , at close ranges other dds can hit you and believe me even Kagero/Shimakaze guns can hurt you , HP not much but when you lsoe 2 turrets it's very painfull .  Gearing will do to you much more damage . Stay at range , don't get close to enemy kill everything

[T0byJug]

 

Oh we know. We proposed a simple 3 DD cap per team for the MM ... but the whinny DD mafia and WG didn't want it.

 

Yep 3 DD per team great idea! Max 2 CV average  at moment in tier ten is inder 0.5 per match.  so you will be effectively getting 9 ships made  up of BB and CA. Very Very quickly CA's will disapeir. As BB's will own the CA's so People will stop playing Cruesers as they will be fed up of BB's citadeling him. 

 

Also most DD  players will love Low DD count! as they will be in a low risk high target environment. sorry you have not though this through.

 

The main issue with DD's is the team Disparity! matches where there is 1 DD on 1 team and 4 or 5 on there other! Then there is a problem

[159Hunter]

 

And nobody should talk about football unless they play in Barcelona right?

 

When I show average statistics that clearly show Tier 6+ DD's under-performing hard it's because there are so many DD players messing with average statistics. When I show it's also true for 5% top players it's also because of sample size. When I show top15 players for every ship and it still clearly shows that DD's underperform it's because I'm not playing them myself.

 

Hilarious.

 

While you're at your statistics, why don't you give us the amount of games played in each of those ships you mentioned the last two weeks ( on EU server )?

Then we can draw some more conclusions.

[Spithas]

 Very Very quickly CA's will disapeir. As BB's will own the CA's so People will stop playing Cruesers as they will be fed up of BB's citadel him. 

 

Please stop.... enough cluelessness already. Cruisers dominate battleships in the high tiers.

 

Oh wait... 5 battles in T9 0 in T10.... wow do you people with ZERO experience on the subject ever consider to stop posting about it???!?

 

Every week there is a new person with 0 gameplay in top tiers telling us how CAs BBs and DDs play in those tiers... amazing!

[Meneleus]

So, how exactly is Texas supposed to be balanced compared to the New York?

 

She is not and I doubt she will be. They might bump her to T6 like they bumped the Blyskawica a tier, maybe giving the AA capability and extra bump in the process.

 

Cheers, M

[LilJumpa]

 

159Hunter, on 19 April 2016 - 02:19 PM, said:

 

While you're at your statistics, why don't you give us the amount of games played in each of those ships you mentioned the last two weeks ( on EU server )?

Then we can draw some more conclusions.

 

You can get the weekly / 2 Months stats from here : http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/index.html

 If you are really serious about further arguing with stats guys that don't really play the tiers/ships they are talking about, that is.

 

Btw in what language are the goals on a football field called hoops . Seems like I don't even know the basics of football.

 

 

 

 

[T0byJug]

 

Please stop.... enough cluelessness already. Cruisers dominate battleships in the high tiers.

 

Oh wait... 5 battles in T9 0 in T10.... wow do you people with ZERO experience on the subject ever consider to stop posting about it???!?

 

Every week there is a new person with 0 gameplay in top tiers telling us how CAs BBs and DDs play in those tiers... amazing!

God you are an arrogant person. We have worked out you don't like stats. But the stats do not support you here.

 

and sorry mate but due to lack of players playing tier ten! tier 8 ships are often in matches with tier 9 and  10 ships! Very often.

 

What is fact! YOU dominate BBs in high tiers because you are a CA player and you are very good at them! but the overall stats show a different story.

 

Also unless a CA gets a torp strike! (so only jap CA) there is very little chance of a CA getting a devastating strike on a BB. The reverse is not the same. Good players will stay with there CA's the average Joe will go BB as its the easiest ship to do ok in! more so if there are Less DD. I like the way no one pics up on the main issue with DD in matches at tier 7+. Its when one team has 1 or 2 DD and the other team have 5 or 6. 

 

when DD's on both teams are approx the same you have a DD skirmish at the start! and the team that Supports its DD's tend to win this fight.

 

 

[Spithas]

God you are an arrogant person. We have worked out you don't like stats. But the stats do not support you here.

 

and sorry mate but due to lack of players playing tier ten! tier 8 ships are often in matches with tier 9 and  10 ships! Very often.

 

What is fact! YOU dominate BBs in high tiers because you are a CA player and you are very good at them! but the overall stats clearly say BB's dominate high tier games.

 

 

 

Besides being arrogant I am also a good BB player.

 

Why doesn't my Yamato dominate as much? Because DDs and CAs both have the upper hand vs it.

 

Ships should always be balanced at their highest potential. Not based on what level the average pleb drags them down to. Which is exactly what we ( people with skill and experience at T9-10) are trying to explain to people like you that insist on reading stats completely wrong due to your total lack of experience in the subject.

 

[ColonelPete]

@Spithas

Now you get ridiculous. BBs outlcass cruisers in nearly all aspects.

Please tell us how cruisers dominate BBs.

Tier X is the only tier where cruisers are comparable to BB.

[T0byJug]

 

Besides being arrogant I am also a good BB player.

 

Why doesn't my Yamato dominate as much? Because DDs and CAs both have the upper hand vs it.

 

Ships should always be balanced at their highest potential. Not based on what level the average pleb drags them down to. Which is exactly what we ( people with skill and experience at T9-10) are trying to explain to people like you that insist on reading stats completely wrong due to your total lack of experience in the subject.

 

well you win more in you Yamato!! ........

 

 

First Please dont get me wrong when i say arrogant i mean about Dismissing players that dont have Tier 10 ships!!  tier 8 is high tier.

 

For you playing skill be as arrogant as you like you are very good so you have every right to be arrogant.

 

Now lets talk about your comment in Bold!! In the context of what I was saying. Restrict DD to 3 a team  will make the 9 ships be BB/CA (I say this because CV's are very under played at top tiers). I said CA's will disapier as Players get fed up of being killed by Crits from the higher volume of big gun BB's in game so will stop playing CA and play BB instead! making BB the most played Ships by a long way in game. Well it will be those average pleb drags that make up a the vast majority of the player base that will go to BB. 

 

So i believe my statement will stay true.  DD's will stay at max number (3 per team)! as limiting the number of DD's in a match is better for the DD player. The Good Players that like CA will stay playing CA (how many Good players are there out there?) The rest will levitate to BB.

 

so we will go to games with a very high BB count! so World of battleships.

 

I want what is good for the game not what is good for me.

 

Limiting DD's to 3 is way to small. That would be great for me as a DD player. Im more scarred of DD's finding me  than almost any other class, CVs are a pain but there are just not many out there.  

 

I will say it again! what needs to be done is fix the issue of Variance. 2 DD on one team and 6 on the other is wrong and makes for a very imbalanced match. especially in dominations games. another thing they should do is restrict DD's in a division no more than 2 DD and maybe force them to be iferent Classes of DD (so no division with 2 Shimakazies)

 

This veriance should be about 30%-50% so if a team has 6 DD the other team will have at least 4. A Team has 4 DD other team has 2 or 3 at a minimum

[Msiiek]

@Spithas

Now you get ridiculous. BBs outlcass cruisers in nearly all aspects.

Please tell us how cruisers dominate BBs.

Tier X is the only tier where cruisers are comparable to BB.

 

Cruiser decide when he want a bb to spot him or not. So the cruiser can fire while invisible and he in his mighty Yamato can only shoot other bbs, becouse they cant invisi fire. Des Moines not as powerfull at that range but Zao can do what he wants. Zao shoots a salvo (really good dispersion and arc) = 0-2 fires started and you cant flee from him or chase him to his spot range becouse he is faster. The only counter is to get sneaky as bb but you still have 13k+ detection range with module and captain so dds will spot you for the cruisers. All i can kill with bb is noobs on high tier ships and enemy bbs, nothing else.

Not to say bbs are weak, they will kill anything in short ranges if spoted.

 

[Spithas]

well you win more in you Yamato!! ........

 

 

First Please dont get me wrong when i say arrogant i mean about Dismissing players that dont have Tier 10 ships!!  tier 8 is high tier.

 

For you playing skill be as arrogant as you like you are very good so you have every right to be arrogant.

 

Now lets talk about your comment in Bold!! In the context of what I was saying. Restrict DD to 3 a team  will make the 9 ships be BB/CA (I say this because CV's are very under played at top tiers). I said CA's will disapier as Players get fed up of being killed by Crits from the higher volume of big gun BB's in game so will stop playing CA and play BB instead! making BB the most played Ships by a long way in game. Well it will be those average pleb drags that make up a the vast majority of the player base that will go to BB. 

 

So i believe my statement will stay true.  DD's will stay at max number (3 per team)! as limiting the number of DD's in a match is better for the DD player. The Good Players that like CA will stay playing CA (how many Good players are there out there?) The rest will levitate to BB.

 

so we will go to games with a very high BB count! so World of battleships.

 

I want what is good for the game not what is good for me.

 

Limiting DD's to 3 is way to small. That would be great for me as a DD player. Im more scarred of DD's finding me  than almost any other class, CVs are a pain but there are just not many out there.  

 

I will say it again! what needs to be done is fix the issue of Variance. 2 DD on one team and 6 on the other is wrong and makes for a very imbalanced match. especially in dominations games. another thing they should do is restrict DD's in a division no more than 2 DD and maybe force them to be iferent Classes of DD (so no division with 2 Shimakazies)

 

This veriance should be about 30%-50% so if a team has 6 DD the other team will have at least 4. A Team has 4 DD other team has 2 or 3 at a minimum

 

I agree on the subject of variance.

 

However i totally disagree about the BB dominance. In my personal experience the last months from tier 6 onwards the ammount of BBs is less and less. Check the numbers of cruisers in the queue. (Which also results that t6 cruisers end up in t8 battles 80% of the time)

 

People are realizing that BBs are very RNG dependant... that infact with a bit more effort cruisers can perform against them well enough and are much less RNG dependant.

 

Nway this is going off topic. The point is a simple cap would have solved the issues and you wouldn't need to go through delicate and potentially ruinous balancing and nerfing. You don't like 3? 4 then. 

[_Teob_]

 

Besides being arrogant I am also a good BB player.

 

Why doesn't my Yamato dominate as much? Because DDs and CAs both have the upper hand vs it.

 

Ships should always be balanced at their highest potential. Not based on what level the average pleb drags them down to. Which is exactly what we ( people with skill and experience at T9-10) are trying to explain to people like you that insist on reading stats completely wrong due to your total lack of experience in the subject.

 

 

To be fair, while I would generally believe without reservations what someone with your stats and experience  would say, I am curious on the rationale behind this.

 

I am aware that 1v1 (or even 1vX) a Zao will burn down all the BBs to the waterline if there are no DDs to spot it. Also a DD will make mince meat out of a lone BB without breaking a sweat.

However I would have never thought that all CAs dominate BBs. 

 

Again not disputing what you are saying but I want to understand where you're coming from here.

[Spithas]

@Spithas

Now you get ridiculous. BBs outlcass cruisers in nearly all aspects.

Please tell us how cruisers dominate BBs.

Tier X is the only tier where cruisers are comparable to BB.

 

In case you haven't realized yet we ARE talking about T9-10 since those are the tiers the DD changes are for. Cruisers at those tiers are more than a match to BBs.