0.5.5 Ship Rebalance Feedback

[DeletedUser]

I dont want to start a Discussion about Carriers again, because its like putting Oil in the Fire, "BUT" is the AA Feature really needed?! Its only because some Trolls like to Snipe down a Carrier in the first Minutes of a Game... and if the Teamplay or even the TeamBalance is better, it wont happen that much. 120 Seconds Active / 360 Seconds Reload for AA Feature on Tier 8 Carriers, thats a lol - even a bit more experienced Carrier Player knows how to deal with that... and me, im running an AA Based Essex Class in the Open Game, i can handle the most dumb Carrier Snipes without that Feature <- but thats my Personal Opinion about this Stuff. For me i dont need that.

[kostuch999]

I don't know why but I fell Japanise fighters planes from carriers are just worthless. I manage to lost 3 fighter squadrons to 1 American. I had all buffs and perks, still shredded to bits.

[SV_Kompresor]

the us cv's are getting nerferd way to much !

 

Not enough :-P, the saipan could use something

 

the only way for me (jap CV) to win against US CVs is to kill one of my own squads to take out 2 or in very few cases 3 of his.....

[Ilya_Wolf]

Yamato APs - 14,800 "max damage" x 9 shells = 133k damage

Reload 30 seconds, Time to react when fired from 18km (detection of ship) 14 seconds

Most likely outcome, 3 overpens on shimakaze = 4440, assuming 21k health thats 5 salvos average to kill the shima which adds up to 120s of loading and shooting after the first shots.

 

Shimakaze 20km torps - 20,697 "max damage" x15 = 310k damage

Reload 153 seconds, time to impact if launched from max range 107 seconds, time to react after spotted 19.5 seconds

Most likely outcome, 1 hit for 45% damage = 9313, assuming 100k health thats 11 salvos to down the yamato, thats over 25 minutes, longer than the entire round....

 

Ok Ok this is not the best example but think about it for a minute, aren't Destroyers supposed to counter Battleships?

 

Why is the yamato able to strike at massive ranges every 30 seconds when a shimakaze has shorter range and takes 260 seconds with significantly worse dispersion for what, better potential total damage?

 

This level of nerfs to the detection and speed are absolutely crazy i think even bot yamatos in coop mode will be able to dodge every single torpedo launched by shimakazes equipped with the 20km torps

 

By the way, after comparing all of the different torpedos around t8/9/10 guess which DD has the torps with the smallest reaction times? Khabarovsk... russian bias much 

[Enkidu69]

Math isn't even needed here. Just look at average damage Shimakazes do and then at Yamatos. And then at their win rates.

 

The supposed BB counter class kills less than 40% of one Yamato per game on average.

 

Destroyers are the worst performing class in game yet WG keeps nerfing them because of kids in BB's crying about torpedoes.

Reload 153 seconds, time to impact if launched from max range 107 seconds, time to react after spotted 19.5 seconds

 

The ridiculous reaction time is the main offender here. It's literally impossible to hit anyone with those torpedoes if enemy has a working brain.

 

And how is Gearing getting 16.5km torps with half the detection range okay? Their guns are many times better than Shimakaze and now their torpedoes are also better?

[RonWhisper]

Japanese DD nerf analysis,...

 

In several forums I can see so many people complain about shimakaze and kagero's and their "torp walls".  This is unfounded whining wich resulted in an unapropriate nerf, and i will explain why (if not already pointed out). 

 

I need too play DD's just like i play BB's.  When you play using half a brain you would know that Sailing in a straight line is asking for a torpedo in your broad side.  It is unbelievable how many people make this mistake (And it is mostly these folks who always complain about the "torp walls"). 

 

Reasons why the IJN destroyers are already being routed out of the game are the following,...

 

-  introduction of radar has made hiding virtually impossible,

(when you are trying to get close and you are cought in radar range of a cruiser, you are dead. The speed of these destroyers is so minimally more and the cruisers in this tier, that you are sunk way before you get out of radar range. A T10 cruiser does not need the full duration of the radar to sink a DD.)

 

- The guns are useless

(When you get spotted by any other DD than an IJN one, you are dead. Turret traverse is terrible, not to mention rate of fire.)

 

- IJN Destroyer speed is the slowest of all DDs in the high tiers

(Getting away in unfavorable situations is all but impossible since the speed on these IJN DDs is a joke. Even cruisers can keep up when you have to dodge their shells)

 

- Torpedoes remain spotted when detected by any kind of aircraft. 

(Once spotted people often see them coming from more than 10km away. This is a hefty nerf, though stupidity is the factor why people keep running in to them.)

 

In all, the Torps don't need any change, the 5 knot increase in speed already cuts down 20% of their range, wich on it's own should allready be more than enough nerf. I have been in battleships where i was able to dodge most incoming torps from more than one Shimakaze untill back-up arived. The problem is not the torps of these DDs, it's the tunnelvission of their targets. If Torpedoes are this big of a problem, than why does nearly no one in the high tier BBs have the "torpedo detection" captain skill? Nerfing the KAGERO's and Shimakaze's will only result in even more BBs  entering the high tier games trying to snipe from across the map (and using aim-bots to increase their odds), resulting in even more stale and passive games. The T10 battles are already mostly like drinking soda without bubbles. It's missing the fizz, and taking away the One and Only effective weapon of the IJN DD's will just kill the use of these ships... And if any one wants to call me a DD fanboy, you're wrong becouse i sail these ships only about 20% of the time and the other 80% being split mainly between BB's and Cruisers. Honestly, i like the challenge these DD's bring in to the game. 

[Ilya_Wolf]

now their torpedoes are also better?

 

I believe they have always been slightly better, to the tune of 2-3 seconds less reaction time for victims, this hefty nerf will put them at more like half the reaction time.

 

Playing USN high tier like a stealthy torpedo boat really does highlight the huge difference, im landing 3-4 hits out of only 10 torps launched at 6km when with shimakaze i would expect 1-2 out of 15 torps launched at the same distance, assuming they know you are there and expect the launch. Even at wierd angles its consistently easier to land USN torps because those few seconds really count i honestly cant imagine anyone ever being hit with 20 seconds to find a gap.

 

Kagero will be the biggest victim of this nerf, the spread from 2x4 launchers is already horrible leaving massive gaps even at short-medium ranges its just gonna be a suicide shotgun after these changes.

 

All thats needed to complete this farce is nerfing BB rudders to 40 seconds so they actually struggle to avoid these silly torps 

[Insane_Ringworm]

http://warships.today/vehicles/eu  

The stats for the shim  are already a tad poor, past 2 weeks in tier 10, it scores 3rd from bottom on average damage, joint 4th from bottom on win rate, joint last place on average kills per game and not that it matters but also the lowest aircraft kills per game.

I think 1 of the key issues why people hate on it so much( and i do understand why) is it sucks to be attacked by someone who you cant attack back , plus the torp wall often stops someone going where they want, which sea denial and control is part of the torp spreads job.

I do like my shim and while playing it i'm free from that horrible RNG, but i do find many games a wash out now due to planes spotting me or my torps, rader, hydro search and gun boat DDs, plus players torpedo awareness and skill has increased massively meaning many now turn randomly or dodge successfully. The only thing i've noticed is the amount of games played over the past 2 weeks, the shim is way ahead, but the happy times are slowly dying as times move on so more players will be getting other 10s and the amount of shims will be on the decline.

So to sum up IMHO i think the shim should be left alone and for anyone thinking I only play DDs , my top ships are all BBs and I play BBs about 75% of the time now so i'm often the one catching the dreaded torp wall. 

[Takeda92]

Shimakaze seems to require more adjustments with the new F3 torps. Unlike Kagero or Fubuki, trying to get close with Shimakaze in the test server was always a death sentence. Shimakaze just isn't stealthy and maneuverable enough for one use torpedoes. You either hit you target, which is despite what everyone is trying to make it seems, is not always guaranteed, or you die. 

 

The reload on the F3 needs to be reduced. I don't see why a tier 10 Minekaze have to reload in 2 minutes when it is forced to get that close. Giving it at least the 1:30 reload like the destroyers before her (and only for the F3) although it is still 10-20 seconds too high for the both Kagero and Shimakaze.

 

Another thing that might be needed is to slightly increase the stealth of Shimakaze. Currently, Shimakaze is tied with Gearing in stealth and yet Gearing has the torp range and the gun range. Giving the slight edge to Shimakaze in stealth for about 200-300 m seems like a good idea, Although it might not be needed with the torp reload buff.

[Spellfire40]

I dont want to start a Discussion about Carriers again, because its like putting Oil in the Fire, "BUT" is the AA Feature really needed?! Its only because some Trolls like to Snipe down a Carrier in the first Minutes of a Game... and if the Teamplay or even the TeamBalance is better, it wont happen that much. 120 Seconds Active / 360 Seconds Reload for AA Feature on Tier 8 Carriers, thats a lol - even a bit more experienced Carrier Player knows how to deal with that... and me, im running an AA Based Essex Class in the Open Game, i can handle the most dumb Carrier Snipes without that Feature <- but thats my Personal Opinion about this Stuff. For me i dont need that.

  It not Trolls. Ist requrlar Tactics because if def fire from a CA can srew your atack alone then AA ship defence plus enemy fighters can make you force to Play a VERY pasive uninteresting game. It also means AA CV can now actively hunt without risking sinking instantly when caught out of position. instead of having to Keep their planes over themself till the enemy is acounted for.

[Fionia_DK]

Have Moskva's AA been nerfed or ?

 

Yesterday I was sailing in a tight formation (1-2 km) with another Moskva.

We came under attack from an Essex CV. Several waves came on to us and we got hit a lot. I used defensive fire (v II) but the bombs and torps hit us badly. We did al we could for evading torps, but CV was without a doubt very skilled, we couldn't evade the torps. The Essex sank the both of us. I did only shoot 17 AC down. If it have been in my Kutosow or Hindenburg, I am sure I would have survived.

 

My Q is, Was our AA so badly damaged that we couldn't shoot them down or is Moskva's AA weak? It would be nice with an indicator that tells the stats on AA.

 

It was fun, but I dont understand that outcome.

 

[got_carried_by_Dark_haha]

Well, the ship re-balancing is great so far. But I wan't to make a point regarding CVs especially the USN CVs 

But still for instance In a ranked or Team battle the Lexington vs Shokaku match

 

1. If the lex goes on strike setup 0-1-3 its pretty much useless against a shoks strike 2-2-2, in ranked or TB match protecting critical targets is always the priority and if enemy is using to fighters over cap zones then the lex is useless, if the lex tries to bait his fighters in the cap and starts going after the shok now it would be useless as now the shok has a 2 mins  AA consumable so the lex can't do anything, fighters also resist cap as they tend to spot DDs over critical caps and caps do matter fa the outcome of whole match. So i would say give atleast one fighter squadron to the lex atleast she gets a chance to use her fighters, if its difficult reduce the no. of fighter planes in the squadron but still give lex a fighter squad in a strike setup

 

2.If the lex goes in stock flight mod against the shok in a TB or ranked with one fighter squad 1-1-1 against shok strike 2-2-2 its still can't do much as the maps at tier 8s are quiet large for the planes spread so its a downfall for lex unless her team has good AA CAs

 

3. The only case the lex wons over shok is going Full Air superiority but this depends on the whole team more than on CV if the RNG is good the lex would have some luck on DBs otherwise the shok always wins. 

 

So I would say the shok is op now against a lex, Either nerf the shok or give lex some strength to live on

 

//Br

[over_watch]

hello

i would like to talk about the usn

bb:

it has very low speed,armor and guns are nearly the same as ijn(tire x yamato is way better then the montana)

lots of aa guns but blind as bats

 

ca

it says that it has superior fire power(not really) mid tires have the same armor as other ships ,no range at all(lowes range) ,same concealment,

same fire rate,no torps , and a high arc of fire

usn ca are supposed to be in the front line but with its arc and its damage , all you can do is hide and fire over islands

[over_watch]

 

hello
i would like to talk about the usn
bb:
it has very low speed,armor and guns are nearly the same as ijn(tire x yamato is way better then the montana)
lots of aa guns but blind as bats

ca
it says that it has superior fire power(not really) mid tires have the same armor as other ships ,no range at all(lowes range) ,same concealment,
same fire rate,no torps , and a high arc of fire (hard to citadel at mid and high range, at close range it gets torped from every one)
usn ca are supposed to be in the front line but with its arc and its damage , all you can do is hide and fire over islands

 

[Claudio_Borghi]

Sorry but IMHO the best solution is not to nerf torpedoes range or speed but simply to limit their number on board. If we make people count their shots (as it was in real life) no more sea of torps...

[AlwaysBadLuckWithTeams]

T10 boats are very expensive to play.

 

 

 

Zao, premium, zulu signal, game won, 1444 base exp (2nd of my team, ~100 behind), not dead (a few scratches): -10,600 silver. All you need to know. Surely not my best game, but one of those seal clubber rounds where I ended up on the right team for a change. And on the wrong side of the map.

 

 

 

1. Mahan

 

What about the Sims ? Imagine a Mahan with much worse torpedos. 3 into a Benson: half hp left. Hitting a Colorado for 3k each ? You barely notice the health bar going down.

 

[BillydSquid]

Torpedo nerfs to IJN were long overdue, torpedo walls have been killing T9/10 games as no one wants to expose themselves or take a risk in case there is a shima about and they take a spread of torpedoes which ends up costing them 160k repair bill and 15 minutes sitting on the sidelines.

 

Hence the move of CA and BBs to sit back and snipe as it was safer rather than face walls of invisible torpedoes which a DD can fire with impunity and never be targeted by as they're rarely inside detection range. It's why until now I stopped grinding do to get to the Hindenburg on the German CA line, it just wasn't worth it. 

 

Radar and HAS buffs are a step in the right direction, I was initially worried that they'd leave shima torpedo walls untouched which was the big problem. But the reduction in range of the 15km torpedoes to 12km and the addition of the 8km torpedoes makes this a lot fairer on the USN and Russian DDs. Good players being able to hit with fast short range torpedoes by risking detection vs a CA is good. As it stands, an isolated CA vs another CA and a Shima in support is in trouble as the situational awareness skill doesn't identify which ship is detecting him, and with the new torpedoes it's really hard to avoid the damage. 

 

With Radar and HAS buffs the Shima with 8km torpedoes still only really has to worry when it runs into an enemy CA alone or with another CA / DD in support to pin down the Shimas location and keep him spotted. 

 

If  this forces IJN ships to work with the CA or DDs for support great, as the Shima has long been a problem rushing off spamming torpedoes with impunity. Leaving the rest of the team to either dodge torpedoes or the allied team to be killed by enemy DDs and spotted. 

 

Please, please follow through on the turret HP buffs, it's desperately needed on the USN and Russian DDs for gunboat play and it would certainly help CAs which can be crippled by destroyed turrets on higher tiers easily. 

 

All in all, lot to like in this patch. 

 

 

[Ilya_Wolf]

Torpedo nerfs to IJN were long overdue, torpedo walls have been killing T9/10 games as no one wants to expose themselves or take a risk in case there is a shima about and they take a spread of torpedoes which ends up costing them 160k repair bill and 15 minutes sitting on the sidelines.

 

Hence the move of CA and BBs to sit back and snipe as it was safer rather than face walls of invisible torpedoes which a DD can fire with impunity and never be targeted by as they're rarely inside detection range. It's why until now I stopped grinding do to get to the Hindenburg on the German CA line, it just wasn't worth it. 

 

Radar and HAS buffs are a step in the right direction, I was initially worried that they'd leave shima torpedo walls untouched which was the big problem. But the reduction in range of the 15km torpedoes to 12km and the addition of the 8km torpedoes makes this a lot fairer on the USN and Russian DDs. Good players being able to hit with fast short range torpedoes by risking detection vs a CA is good. As it stands, an isolated CA vs another CA and a Shima in support is in trouble as the situational awareness skill doesn't identify which ship is detecting him, and with the new torpedoes it's really hard to avoid the damage. 

 

With Radar and HAS buffs the Shima with 8km torpedoes still only really has to worry when it runs into an enemy CA alone or with another CA / DD in support to pin down the Shimas location and keep him spotted. 

 

If  this forces IJN ships to work with the CA or DDs for support great, as the Shima has long been a problem rushing off spamming torpedoes with impunity. Leaving the rest of the team to either dodge torpedoes or the allied team to be killed by enemy DDs and spotted. 

 

Please, please follow through on the turret HP buffs, it's desperately needed on the USN and Russian DDs for gunboat play and it would certainly help CAs which can be crippled by destroyed turrets on higher tiers easily. 

 

All in all, lot to like in this patch. 

 

 

 

Honestly i wonder if we are even playing the same game...

It is the crazy range and damage of BBs that keep the CAs camping, the BBs camp because they have no ships screening for torps, its a self fullfilling prophecy "i wont advance in case of torps" total nonsense if there is a competent DD or CA between the battleship and the enemy ships there is a very high chance of spotting torps long before they arrive not to mention the permanent spotting a CV can inflict.

Would you have guessed me and my other shimakaze playing friends absolutely love it when the enemies all cluster together and "hide" it makes it incredibly easy to rack up huge damage just by headbutting the keyboard 

 

You hide because you are afraid, others hide because they dont want to be the first, you hide further behind them because you dont want to be first either, they keep trying to hide behind you, before you know it you are at the edge of the map barely able to hit anything at the edge of your range....

 

All this from someone who doesnt even have a t10 ship nor played a single game in destroyer? please try to learn how things work before you form such opinions.

[cpt_sparrow_jack]

i was reading this topic and its madness..the title in my post is DONT ACT LIKE SPOILED CHILDS.

everyone  saying about his personal favourite ship and the injustice that happened..it called BALANCE THE GAME..they try to find out how the teams will be even.its a TEAM PLAY..its not a battle between shimas and yamato..thats the point and if the most of u coparate its other it will not be a problem.

im a cpt of all kind of ships equally and i like to have shima and montana and yamato.i have fun when i play dds, cvs,  bbs, cas,

i dont have rusian cruiser but i like the new feature of radar even if i play my dd..i will speak about shimas cpts because i think u are the most spoilt. all that time u choose your shima because of sniping from very far and have with just one hit 20000 damage (+flooding) i think a bellow  average skilled dd cpt can reach with shima the top3 best xp position of his team in the battle easily.thats y the most of u bought it.i n the field play there are also other bbs most times and lower tier than X..also if u think american dds are better own one american dd its not prohibited for u..(but becareful it doesnt have 15 torps ;p )if u  think jpn CVS are better maybe u think because is more close in your gameplay so be the owner of one.its so simple..

in conclusion as i say above  i play all the kind of ships and the nationalities..i think the key word is TEAMPLAY u are in a teamplay station u dont play for your own,,

 

CONGRATS WOWS keep the good work as u do and experiment with new features in the ships,we like them.,,...if the repair of the high tier ships is cheaper i think u will not have such problems with any cpt crying, the game play will change imidiately..

[BillydSquid]

 

 

 

Honestly i wonder if we are even playing the same game...

It is the crazy range and damage of BBs that keep the CAs camping, the BBs camp because they have no ships screening for torps, its a self fullfilling prophecy "i wont advance in case of torps" total nonsense if there is a competent DD or CA between the battleship and the enemy ships there is a very high chance of spotting torps long before they arrive not to mention the permanent spotting a CV can inflict.

Would you have guessed me and my other shimakaze playing friends absolutely love it when the enemies all cluster together and "hide" it makes it incredibly easy to rack up huge damage just by headbutting the keyboard 

 

You hide because you are afraid, others hide because they dont want to be the first, you hide further behind them because you dont want to be first either, they keep trying to hide behind you, before you know it you are at the edge of the map barely able to hit anything at the edge of your range....

 

All this from someone who doesnt even have a t10 ship nor played a single game in destroyer? please try to learn how things work before you form such opinions.

 

That's because we're not, you've got no games in a CA past T8 and that T8 is an Atago. I do, T9 Roon. All your T10 are in a shima so no wonder you're pissing and moaning, you're going to get your crutch ship taken away because you can't hack T10 games without a Shima. 

 

You effectively pushed one ship line and are unable to play the game any other way. As you've never had to learn detection mechanics, how to cope with BB fire from Yamato's, focus fire, dodging torpedo spreads, stealth DDs constantly spotting you. Citadels from German CAs, 9km stealth Zao setting you on fire, angling your armour, anticipating shell trajectory and dispersion to weave in between, dealing with BB shells ripping through your angled CA armour. You played a Shima, the lowest skill entry ship in T10 so I wouldn't expect you to know how to deal with any of that. 

 

No no wonder you don't know what high tier gameplay is like, please go play a CA at T9/10 then get back to me, frankly you're one of the people that spam torpedoes at 10km in all likelihood so it's little wonder there are several people here crying about the nerfs. I dint see the other super testers or better Shimi players in here screaming about the torpedo change when they know they're going to get a set of extremely fast torpedoes. Do you? 

 

Get to a Roon, like mine, or any other T9/10 CA then you'll have a better understanding of what higher tiers are like for anything outside a DD. 

 

Please go cry more, I will laugh my arse off when WG brings these changes in and the handful of players which have free xp'd their way to the Shima fail leaving only the better ones who know what they're doing to play DDs at higher tiers. I'll be glad to see the back of torpedo walls. 

[Ilya_Wolf]

 

 

That's because we're not, you've got no games in a CA past T8 and that T8 is an Atago. I do, T9 Roon. All your T10 are in a shima so no wonder you're pissing and moaning, you're going to get your crutch ship taken away because you can't hack T10 games without a Shima. 

 

You effectively pushed one ship line and are unable to play the game any other way. As you've never had to learn detection mechanics, how to cope with BB fire from Yamato's, focus fire, dodging torpedo spreads, stealth DDs constantly spotting you. Citadels from German CAs, 9km stealth Zao setting you on fire, angling your armour, anticipating shell trajectory and dispersion to weave in between, dealing with BB shells ripping through your angled CA armour. You played a Shima, the lowest skill entry ship in T10 so I wouldn't expect you to know how to deal with any of that. 

 

No no wonder you don't know what high tier gameplay is like, please go play a CA at T9/10 then get back to me, frankly you're one of the people that spam torpedoes at 10km in all likelihood so it's little wonder there are several people here crying about the nerfs. I dint see the other super testers or better Shimi players in here screaming about the torpedo change when they know they're going to get a set of extremely fast torpedoes. Do you? 

 

Get to a Roon, like mine, or any other T9/10 CA then you'll have a better understanding of what higher tiers are like for anything outside a DD. 

 

Please go cry more, I will laugh my arse off when WG brings these changes in and the handful of players which have free xp'd their way to the Shima fail leaving only the better ones who know what they're doing to play DDs at higher tiers. I'll be glad to see the back of torpedo walls. 

 

Its super impressive how you manage to insult me over the internets, my feels are hurting. 

Quit derailing the thread with your pointless trolling. You clearly dont understand how destroyers work, or how IJN destroyers fit into the overall game.

 

This wont be the end of torpedo walls, far from it, they will just come from Gearing instead.

[JymmBlack]

 

 

That's because we're not, you've got no games in a CA past T8 and that T8 is an Atago. I do, T9 Roon. All your T10 are in a shima so no wonder you're pissing and moaning, you're going to get your crutch ship taken away because you can't hack T10 games without a Shima. 

 

You effectively pushed one ship line and are unable to play the game any other way. As you've never had to learn detection mechanics, how to cope with BB fire from Yamato's, focus fire, dodging torpedo spreads, stealth DDs constantly spotting you. Citadels from German CAs, 9km stealth Zao setting you on fire, angling your armour, anticipating shell trajectory and dispersion to weave in between, dealing with BB shells ripping through your angled CA armour. You played a Shima, the lowest skill entry ship in T10 so I wouldn't expect you to know how to deal with any of that. 

 

No no wonder you don't know what high tier gameplay is like, please go play a CA at T9/10 then get back to me, frankly you're one of the people that spam torpedoes at 10km in all likelihood so it's little wonder there are several people here crying about the nerfs. I dint see the other super testers or better Shimi players in here screaming about the torpedo change when they know they're going to get a set of extremely fast torpedoes. Do you? 

 

Get to a Roon, like mine, or any other T9/10 CA then you'll have a better understanding of what higher tiers are like for anything outside a DD.

 

All this is pointless.

 

I play Roon. And Izumo. And Yamato. And Zao. And Shima. And Udaloï (and, and, and ... ok ?). And i just laugh when i read people saying IJN DDs are responsible of what the gameplay in high tiers is and talk about thoose "walls of torps".

 

Torpedoes walls were NEVER a problem for me, even in an Izumo or Yamato. I just deal with it. And the only few times i got sunk by torpedoes, was not "because a wall" that i can easily dodge as fare as i'm cautious and have a well fitted ship and captain. When i got sunk by torpedoes, it was from very short range. Or it was just because i was allready almost dead and one torp was enough to finish the job. In all cases if a DD could torp me, it was because i did a mistake or i was not helped by thoose who could spot him. Not because the DD is IJN and has long rang torps.

 

High tiers gameplay is what it is because most of players are risk averse. Cruisers dont do their job, DDs dont do their job (including useless DD players who shoot "walls of torps" at such distance they will be useless except if a player doesnt pay attention : the spread is so wide at long range that anybody can dodge them if they play properly). And the number of DDs in thoose game is what it is because the MM is not working properly.

 

When i play cruisers or DDs, i'm playing it first line and i chase DDs. It's easier know than monthes ago : better sonars, radars, and i kill a lot of them, that's my favorite gameplay (got my rank 1 mostly in Mogami, killing DDs). And i think i do it well, spotting and reporting your "walls of torps" so early that BBs behind me dodge them easily, except the kind of player that doesnt pay attention ... to not use more hard words. But in 99 % of the games i play as a DD or a cruiser, when i look to what my teammates in DDs and cruiser do, i rage because they just stay back. THEY ARE the main reason of the high tiers gameplay, as are BBs stuck to the blue line.

 

And as a DD player also (which obviously you, who come giving lessons to others telling them they have to learn high tiers gameplay, do NOT know at all, Mister blah blah), i know how hard it is know to deal with all the detection meanings that are in game and can be used by players WHO WANT TO ... not by people hiding at the backline, of course. And i know what detection range of IJN torps and the reaction time the targets has are : IJN torps are the easier torpedoes to dodge in the game. SO TALKING ABOUT INVISIBLE WALLS OF TORPS IS JUST RIDICULOUS.

 

What Iliya said is true : theese changes to IJN torps will change NOTHING. People will use Gearing instead, and good IJN players will still be very dangerous at short range (they are, we are, few). Exactly as, monthes ago, people rushed on Bensons and we found ranked battles with 5 - 6 Bensons in teams. Good Shima or Kagero or Fubuki players will keep it, and whiners will still whine "because walls of torps". I'll keep my IJN DDs, and of course will never use the F3 because i wont pay for an unintended change of the game (i use torps acceleration on my captains, of course).

 

The real good solution was to fix matchmaking, and limit the number of DDs to a maximum of 4 in a team. Another solution to help people to be less risk averse is to give bonus to any hit a cruiser or a DD does to a DD : players are risk averse, but they love credits and xp. It would be really far better for the game that WG delays thoose torps changes, or at least change their datas which are actually bad and will just bring "walls of Gearings" (oh ... and dont come again with historical stories ... lol ... IJN torps were the stealthiest in WW2 ...).

 

But of course, this means more work for WG ..... it's easier to come with a useless tweak, without taking in account what happened in past and was also useless. Remember the "bad Mogamis spamming HE from 18 km" ? Nerf on 155 mm guns (except on MK, soooo surprising ...), and now what ? Players bought Kutuzovs, and/or ran for Russian cruisers. And you still have long range HE spamming. Including off sight spamming from skilled captains (which US DDs do well also, wanna nerf them too ?).

[BillydSquid]

 

All this is pointless.

 

I play Roon. And Izumo. And Yamato. And Zao. And Shima. And Udaloï (and, and, and ... ok ?). And i just laugh when i read people saying IJN DDs are responsible of what the gameplay in high tiers is and talk about thoose "walls of torps".

 

Torpedoes walls were NEVER a problem for me, even in an Izumo or Yamato. I just deal with it. And the only few times i got sunk by torpedoes, was not "because a wall" that i can easily dodge as fare as i'm cautious and have a well fitted ship and captain. When i got sunk by torpedoes, it was from very short range. Or it was just because i was allready almost dead and one torp was enough to finish the job. In all cases if a DD could torp me, it was because i did a mistake or i was not helped by thoose who could spot him. Not because the DD is IJN and has long rang torps.

 

High tiers gameplay is what it is because most of players are risk averse. Cruisers dont do their job, DDs dont do their job (including useless DD players who shoot "walls of torps" at such distance they will be useless except if a player doesnt pay attention : the spread is so wide at long range that anybody can dodge them if they play properly). And the number of DDs in thoose game is what it is because the MM is not working properly.

 

When i play cruisers or DDs, i'm playing it first line and i chase DDs. It's easier know than monthes ago : better sonars, radars, and i kill a lot of them, that's my favorite gameplay (got my rank 1 mostly in Mogami, killing DDs). And i think i do it well, spotting and reporting your "walls of torps" so early that BBs behind me dodge them easily, except the kind of player that doesnt pay attention ... to not use more hard words. But in 99 % of the games i play as a DD or a cruiser, when i look to what my teammates in DDs and cruiser do, i rage because they just stay back. THEY ARE the main reason of the high tiers gameplay, as are BBs stuck to the blue line.

 

And as a DD player also (which obviously you, who come giving lessons to others telling them they have to learn high tiers gameplay, do NOT know at all, Mister blah blah), i know how hard it is know to deal with all the detection meanings that are in game and can be used by players WHO WANT TO ... not by people hiding at the backline, of course. And i know what detection range of IJN torps and the reaction time the targets has are : IJN torps are the easier torpedoes to dodge in the game. SO TALKING ABOUT INVISIBLE WALLS OF TORPS IS JUST RIDICULOUS.

 

What Iliya said is true : theese changes to IJN torps will change NOTHING. People will use Gearing instead, and good IJN players will still be very dangerous at short range (they are, we are, few). Exactly as, monthes ago, people rushed on Bensons and we found ranked battles with 5 - 6 Bensons in teams. Good Shima or Kagero or Fubuki players will keep it, and whiners will still whine "because walls of torps". I'll keep my IJN DDs, and of course will never use the F3 because i wont pay for an unintended change of the game (i use torps acceleration on my captains, of course).

 

The real good solution was to fix matchmaking, and limit the number of DDs to a maximum of 4 in a team. Another solution to help people to be less risk averse is to give bonus to any hit a cruiser or a DD does to a DD : players are risk averse, but they love credits and xp. It would be really far better for the game that WG delays thoose torps changes, or at least change their datas which are actually bad and will just bring "walls of Gearings" (oh ... and dont come again with historical stories ... lol ... IJN torps were the stealthiest in WW2 ...).

 

But of course, this means more work for WG ..... it's easier to come with a useless tweak, without taking in account what happened in past and was also useless. Remember the "bad Mogamis spamming HE from 18 km" ? Nerf on 155 mm guns (except on MK, soooo surprising ...), and now what ? Players bought Kutuzovs, and/or ran for Russian cruisers. And you still have long range HE spamming. Including off sight spamming from skilled captains (which US DDs do well also, wanna nerf them too ?).

 

Rubbish, when Radar came in they all said that the Gearing and other DDs are dead and the Shimi is unaffected. Now the Shima is getting its torpedoes changed its the gearing that's the DD which will be used. Did the radar changes get reverted when I wasn't looking? 

 

Which is it? I'd like to know, as every time a change comes in be it HAS, Radar, Shima changes a sect of DD players has come out screaming that the class is destroyed, the game is over! Hasn't happened. 

 

As as to running in the first line in a Roon, good luck you're getting highlighted and focus fired by every enemy BB in range and you'll be dead in minutes. 

[BillydSquid]

 

Its super impressive how you manage to insult me over the internets, my feels are hurting. 

Quit derailing the thread with your pointless trolling. You clearly dont understand how destroyers work, or how IJN destroyers fit into the overall game.

 

This wont be the end of torpedo walls, far from it, they will just come from Gearing instead.

 

Awwww don't you like someone who's telling you something you don't like to hear? Tough, this is the Internet after all. 

 

Ha yeah okay. Was this before or after DD players said the Gearing was dead when Radar was included in the game? Suddenly the Gearing is usable again! Nothing has changed, but the Gearing is going to be usable, even though Radar is still being used destroy Gearings firing from smoke. 

 

the same points were made when HAS was introduced, DDs are dead! How'd that work out? 

 

Shima torpedoes are now useless, except they're only 1km less range and 4knits slower and do 6k more damage each.... Oh right, they really aren't. That's before you use torpedo acceleration. Which still gives a 9km range. And on top of that you get 8km torpedoes which are the best in the game. 

 

I admit the Shima is now useless for any long range 15km torpedo spamming pain at high tier, I'm sure I'll lose lots of sleep over their anguish. 

[Ilya_Wolf]

 

Awwww don't you like someone who's telling you something you don't like to hear? Tough, this is the Internet after all. 

 

Ha yeah okay. Was this before or after DD players said the Gearing was dead when Radar was included in the game? Suddenly the Gearing is usable again! Nothing has changed, but the Gearing is going to be usable, even though Radar is still being used destroy Gearings firing from smoke. 

 

the same points were made when HAS was introduced, DDs are dead! How'd that work out? 

 

Shima torpedoes are now useless, except they're only 1km less range and 4knits slower and do 6k more damage each.... Oh right, they really aren't. That's before you use torpedo acceleration. Which still gives a 9km range. And on top of that you get 8km torpedoes which are the best in the game. 

 

I admit the Shima is now useless for any long range 15km torpedo spamming pain at high tier, I'm sure I'll lose lots of sleep over their anguish. 

 

Didnt notice the trollface eh? 

Dont think anyone ever claimed gearing was dead from radar, benson/fletcher and other USN DDs designed to fight close range are the ones most punished by radar, which was meant to address the long range torp walls...

 

The best part about all this nonsense you coming out with, undoubtedly you will be one of the very special few who still eat 20km shima torps after the patch 

 

I also really appreciate you admitting that your main concern about being on the frontline in roon is being focused by all the enemy BBs, not the torp walls of dooooom

 

@JymmBlack thanks for taking the effort to try explaining things to this guy, he probably still wont get it but you have more patience than me!