Warspite's Armour...

[Sea_viper]

I'm going deep chaps!

 

Here's Warspites full armour layout (40lb = 1" or 25mm armour)

 

 

 

The 6mm top section should 25mm (4e or 40lb high tensile steel) It just isn't specifically listed on the cross section profile for C on the drawing but can be seen on B9/8. (The hanger also has 4e/25mm on the roof instead of 16mm but that's far less critical)

 

 

 

The exposed citadel area around the front turret is largely correct but something still feels dodgy.

 

 

51mm (2 x 4e) should be covering the front, where did 102mm (160lb) come from? (assuming gamemodels3d.com has correct values)

Should the WOWS citadel hit box be reduced to match the 4x armour line (25mm doubling) Is that where the 102mm armour should be? I currently don't know what that compartment it is or what 4x doubling armour means.

Did RN engineers really overlook this area for the 89mm citadel extension?

Anyway WG is going a great job and don't mind Warspite not getting looked at until the tech tree version is being developed. 

 

Great Job! 

I think WG is still working on Warspite's model, it seems that it got updated quite a lot, seems that there are updates in v0.5.5 test server too. (I can't look at it though)

One thing to note though, Since Warspite does not use All or Nothing armour scheme, there is no well defined armour bulkhead to define a citadel area. Citadel in battleships not only covers the mechanically important vitals (e.g. Magazines, Boiler/engine rooms), it also includes Buoyancy/stability critical areas, or in other words, flooding in seemingly non-critical part inside the citadel will greatly impart the ships stability. (like SMS Lutzow and SMS Seydlitz) 

I think RN engineers are aware of this. you can see form the deck plan of hold. 

Notice the bulkhead with two 4e (1 inch HT) plates that cover all the important compartments with some extra? That is probably the area that is critical to the stability of the ship, so I kind of agree the citadel placement.

[creamgravy]

Yep, the hold/lower deck sides are wrapped in 4e (both sides for 51mm) It's the 4x section on the lower deck that's the issue (which doesn't exist on the armour model)

The WG designer has used 102mm on the ends instead of 51mm, was this to compensate for 4x? Ditto using 127mm armour over the stern roof when it should be 64mm and just forgot to replace the bow top with 127mm too. The main 330mm belt also matches the 4x boundary.

Also all the UK designed Japanese battleships have citadels that end at the turrets... 

[Bersaglio]

It is a shitty ship, slow , little ray of fire , little maneuverability , the turrets can not keep up with targets.

With pointer on target, guns fail to give green target to fire .

The ship need buff otherwise remain in port . I can only advise against the purchase for now .

[Zepheris_]

It is a shitty ship, slow , little ray of fire , little maneuverability , the turrets can not keep up with targets.

 

So your not a good player with the Warspite. For me its the best Armoured tier 6 BB in the game.

 

It's down to the players skill, if you're trying to play it like a Cleveland and failing, its not the ships fault

 

Did you even check the guides before buying it?

[Soft_Kitty_Warm_Kitty]

I love the old Girl, admittedly her slow speed and size make her a high priority target for CV's who don't know any better (or so it seems to me) but she is manoverable as hell once fully upgraded with Rudder shift etc, so dodging most of the torps isn't too hard and I have upgraded my secondaries to over 7km range, with I think I am right in saying a -20% dispersion to the secondaries accuracy, making her an even more deadly close range fighter.

Long may she rule the waves at T6 to T8

[Seikin]

Dunno if its just me - but it seems a LOT better since today's update. Still catches fire as soon as the first CA comes in range tho.. but I can live with that

[Mucker]

I'm wondering how we could forward this information to the devs, because clearly this stuff could be fixed in no time. Because right now, no matter how you place Warspite, at any angle there are huge weakspots that should not be there. 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

I recently took main battery accuracy and swapped out secondaries so their range falls to 6km. Would rather have better main guns and it seems to work...

 

So getting hit for 50% HP even when angled isn't a "feature" and probably a mistake they should patch?

[RedStorm1]

Excellent Post!

 

I have a question though: Looking at the 3D armour model and modules of Warspite, I noticed that the citadel area is below the waterline (as Jingles had mentioned in his film).

 

On the contrary, when I read the Wiki, it clearly mentions that Citadel point is slightly over the waterline.

here: BSB002_Warspite_1941" style="background: none;">http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/ShipBSB002_Warspite_1941

 

So, I am asking myself whether they have changed something. Otherwise, why would an officially sponsored Wargaming site come to that conclusion.

 

 

 

[Seikin]

Looking at it in port, it does kind of look like it's sitting high in the water. The ship has its camo paint, then below that a brownish stripe, then below that, the red for the underside. With most ships in my port, I can only see the top of the brown stripe over the waterline. For the Warspite, I can see the whole brown stripe and the top of the red too.

[Getzamatic]

I'm pretty sure it's sitting higher in the water than when it used to, and I can definitely state that in a game early today I took massive damage from a single 14" shell from a Fuso striking close to the waterline, near X turret at an angle of about 45 degrees.  That simply should not happen.

[RedStorm1]

I'm pretty sure it's sitting higher in the water than when it used to, and I can definitely state that in a game early today I took massive damage from a single 14" shell from a Fuso striking close to the waterline, near X turret at an angle of about 45 degrees.  That simply should not happen.

 

You would not happen to have a replay of this by any chance???

 

[Getzamatic]

If only.  Unfortunately I don't have replays enabled...

[Dampfboot]

Got citalled through frontal armor by a Colorado at 14km distance. The Warspite armor really needs some work.

 

[Sea_viper]

Well... nagato and colorado can also take cit through the front against their own guns...

[Sea_viper]

I think I found why Warspite may feel very soft for some people now. I was playing in the ocean map just now and bow on towards a Fuso and NM, I bounce most AP shells no problem, then come the HE.... OUCH, it hurts A LOT! (the heal kinda save my [edited] long enough to win) So I decided to check the module and armour model again to see what may went wrong.

So "casemate" module is really big, notice there is a part that is one deck above the rest of the module? Those are where the secondaries are located. Guess how many armour covered that part? 

 

   25mm  which is actually fairly accurate to real life

That's not where the fun ends, the floor of that deck is actually armoured (also fairly accurate)

44mm (38mm infront and after it on the same deck) but this won't stop shells damaging the "casemate" module

Question: How can a single module be divided in half by armour that is thicker than what covers it? Let's see it this happens to fuso and NM

 

New Mexico

New Mexico is a typical example of All or nothing armor scheme, the "casemate" are safely behind 140mm(!!) of deck armour (and more belt armour), while the "wows_inner_ssc" probably have a relatively small HP pool (Even though it includes all the secondary battery)

Which means that after HE depleted the unarmoured upper hull, HE will start to deal 0 damage and will not touch the "casemate" module

 

Fuso

Fuso have a massive "casemate" module BUT,

 

 

The module is bound by 35mm (top), 99mm (bottom) armoured decks and 152-305mm (side) with NOTHING in between, so it make sense to make it as one module (unarmoured decks will be holed by shrapnel anyway)

 

This means that Warspite's "casemate" is basically hanging its [edited] in the air with a rather big HP pool. I must concluded that some one make a mistake with the module placement, even though there is nothing wrong with the armour model. So I think they should divide this module into two by the 44mm armoured deck

 

Before someone jump on me and say that it is "working as intended", I must remind that person one thing, the Queen Elizabeth class battleship have 152mm side armour for the forecastle (secondary batteries) BEFORE modernization. During the modernization, those 152mm armour were removed and deck armour were added, so they basically decided to turn the secondary battery into the "nothing" part" of the armour scheme and focus more on protecting decks below it. If this doesn't change, by the time the Queen Elizabeth class BB roll out (God knows when) with A hull and B hull, people will find that B hull is actually worse against HE, so it is better to change it sooner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

Thanks for sharing that information that explains quite a lot actually.

[RedStorm1]

@Sea_viper

Thank you for all this work!

 

What confuses me though is that this does not explain the sudden change in the old lady's capabilities! The developers claim no change was made to the ship.

 

 

[Xerkics]

I was playing a match yesterday and had a hit from nagato for 75% hp while angled I was like what the hell. I don't think I ever had this many citadel hits on a bb in any I played tier 3-8.

[Sea_viper]

Since the Nagato shells overmatch all 25mm plate, there is only one 32mm deck and 102mm internal belt and bulkhead that covers the foward citadel... yea, will totally slice right through 

[creamgravy]

Don't forget 14" HE will penetrate 59mm armour. Fuso has great HE, it'll do 2k+ per shell to any superstructure, bow or stern section. That's why you typically shoot HE at angled battleships, just don't aim for the heavily armoured belt or turrets.

Warspites large 16mm superstructure will always be a big juicy target for any ship. 

 

 

[Numberjack]

Thx for work Sea Viper.

 

I love this ship, but ingame the feeling because the Armour is like a Cruiser. 

[kfa]

Well i dont know guys, i got solo warrior in a Tier8 match with mine. It is a really strong all around ship dispite all the hate.

 

 

 

 

 

[RedStorm1]

Well i dont know guys, i got solo warrior in a Tier8 match with mine. It is a really strong all around ship dispite all the hate.

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Nice job KFA! do you have the replay??? I would love to land 53 hits with my warspite, does not happen ever!

[_Flyto_]

 

This means that Warspite's "casemate" is basically hanging its [edited] in the air with a rather big HP pool. I must concluded that some one make a mistake with the module placement, even though there is nothing wrong with the armour model. So I think they should divide this module into two by the 44mm armoured deck

Ugh, that would explain a lot. It's another scenario where an armour scheme that seems fairly sensible in real life causes problems in a game with hitpoints.

Reality: The badly armoured casemate area gets hit and obliterated. No more secondaries, but further hits to that area do little.

In game: The badly armoured casemate area gets hit repeatedly, and each hit continues to remove hitpoints from the ship as a whole.