Two full broadsides no citadel at 87 degrees to cruisers FTW

[Ysterpyp]

Hi All

I made a training room and this happens when you go close to a CA and open fire on its perfectly presented broadside at close range. I tested with t6 and t7 cruisers and the same thing happens ( nothing)

 

 

Look at where all the holes are its even more that two broadsides, i aimed for the magazines and midship , all shots overpenning even through citadel. Working as inteded?

 

 

 

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So think of this , cruiser is coming in close for a torp run and you wait for the perfect broadside , you fire and 10k damage max. boom blows you out of the water , so you have to shoot when he is still at a bit of angle otherwise all shot will overpen at close range. 

 

 

This seems incorrect to me

 

 

[BigDov]

would say its working as intended, the citadel on most ships sits below the water line, very few ships have it above the waterline so needs a slightly downward angle or all shells hitting the water line to get a citadel, at close range the shells have a flater arc so getting them to hit/ pen below the water line after penetrating the armor is a little bit more problematic.

[Ictogan]

The shells can often overpen the citadel when at very close ranges. You can prevent this by firing at the waterline, as the shells will loose some penetration power when they travel through the water.

[EsaTuunanen]

BB APs were designed to punch through BB armor and most of them have over half meter penetration at point blank range.

Also fuze has delay intended to allow shell to penetrate thick armor and then at slowed down speed to proceed to inner compartments of BB.

In comparison relatively thin cruiser armor doesn't slow AP's speed much any and also ship is slimmer.

 

Apparently IJN also used longer delay than USN to allow short falling shells time to hit ship below thickest belt armor before detonating.

[lafeel]

The shells can often overpen the citadel when at very close ranges. You can prevent this by firing at the waterline, as the shells will loose some penetration power when they travel through the water.

 

Not to mention that being the thickest part of the vessel's armor, generally.

[Ysterpyp]

You can prevent this by firing at the waterline

 

I tried that to , doesn't work at close range

[SailingDutchy]

so we need special anti-cruiser shells 

 

[Admiral_noodle]

so we need special anti-cruiser shells 

 

HE works rather well. Especially if it blows off the torpedoes they were about to launch  

 

but it this is only recommended for high HP cruisers at *point blank* range, when AP just bounces off the citadel roof...

[Carnivore81]

It's actually BS for me. AT least a Citadel overpen should be do more DMG than a normal Overpen. 

[Admiral_noodle]

Well it's not a citadel overpen. It's an overpen plus a citadel ricochet. So it does minimal damage in this scenario.

[Carnivore81]

Well it's not a citadel overpen. It's an overpen plus a citadel ricochet. So it does minimal damage in this scenario.

 

no actually you overpen Citadel.  Some Cruiser esp. IJN Engineroom Starts over the Waterline. And DD can Citadel  (no overpen)there.

[Admiral_noodle]

 

no actually you overpen Citadel.  Some Cruiser esp. IJN Engineroom Starts over the Waterline. And DD can Citadel  (no overpen)there.

 

Well then in that specific scenario that is daft. You should get a regular pen or something for landing heavy shells *inside the engine room* even if they do go right through it. Citadel containing like important ship stuff...

[Carnivore81]

 

Well then in that specific scenario that is daft. You should get a regular pen or something for landing heavy shells *inside the engine room* even if they do go right through it. Citadel containing like important ship stuff...

 

Thats why I say it's BS. 

[Ysterpyp]

Well it's not a citadel overpen. It's an overpen plus a citadel ricochet. So it does minimal damage in this scenario.

 

So we are hitting the kitchen and living quarters? If you hit the kitchen i will be out of action 

[Ysterpyp]

No cruiser should ever be able to survive a full broadside like this ever

[Loke56]

I would say this fall on RNG. It just wasn't meant to be.

 

I have experienced the same problem like that a lot also. Shooting at a cruiser with my battleship at 6 km or less and only getting overpen no matter if he gives me a sharp angel or broadside.

 

when the AP shell goes through the hull, it explodes inside the ship and the shrapnel goes through the citadel. Making it feel like the citadel is bigger than it actually is. that's why its possible to sometimes hit on the bow or aft end and get citadel hit. That's another RNG.

[RichardNixon]

The shells can often overpen the citadel when at very close ranges. You can prevent this by firing at the waterline, as the shells will loose some penetration power when they travel through the water.

 

Through-water penetrations have a very narrow margin though. You get maybe 1 per 10 citadel hits at close range.

 

Given the choice, a better tactic against close-range cruisers is to fire when they're somewhat angled. Goes against instinct, but works well in most cases.

 

[RichardNixon]

when the AP shell goes through the hull, it explodes inside the ship and the shrapnel goes through the citadel. Making it feel like the citadel is bigger than it actually is. that's why its possible to sometimes hit on the bow or aft end and get citadel hit. That's another RNG.

 

Neither of these cases have much to do with RNG. Citadel overpens are caused by the shell passing through both sides of the ship before exploding (shells have a detonation timer, typically 0.033 seconds for BB AP). Bow/aft citadels are caused by shells passing through the thin bow/stern armour and then punching through the internal citadel bulkhead.

 

The only RNG in the AP damage mechanics is for ricochets. Typically a shell that impacts at 45 degrees has a 0% chance of a ricochet, while a shell landing at 60 degrees has a 100% chance. Chances for angles in between are interpolated.

 

[P4RDUS]

No cruiser should ever be able to survive a full broadside like this ever

 

No good BB captain should ever let a cruiser to come that close. 

 

Just aim at the waterline and cruiser will go down to the bottom of the sea in 1 or 2 salvos, before getting a chance to approach so much. So MAN THE FORK UP

[Carnivore81]

 

No good BB captain should ever let a cruiser to come that close. 

 

Just aim at the waterline and cruiser will go down to the bottom of the sea in 1 or 2 salvos, before getting a chance to approach so much. So MAN THE FORK UP

 

No actually that's the Problem  we Talk about.  They are not going down. Because the area where you actually doing Citadells got very small on Close Range .Against Low armoured CA. You need a lucky shot to score more than 1 Citadel.When i tested Moskva, in Trainingsroom, a Mogami surviving more Salvos than Iowa on 5 km. 

[Nechrom]

This is one of those things that makes about as much sense as citadel penetrations using AP doing more damage than citadel penetrations using HE.