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netc0rd

What exactly is the role of the Moskva?

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So I Visa Warrior'd my Moskva a few days back only to realize it was a waste of cash. I've had absolutely horrible games with the ship, and I fail to see what the role of the ship is.

I own most of the T10s  --CVs and Shima excluded-- and each and every one of these ships actually brings something to the table - They differentiate themselves from the others by all fullfilling a specific role - All except the Moskva:

 

The HP pool is nullified by the fact that you're a floating citadel. Looking at the armor you'd think you'd be able to tank enemies whilst you angle the ship, but nope! - You're going to bleed HP no matter what shoots at you.

The guns of the ship, albeit nice, fail to reach that "oomph" level of barrage you can lay down on the enemy whilst sailing in either a Zao (a pain in the *ss for enemy BBs), or a Hindenburg (which can wreck enemy CAs at even long distance due to massive AP volleys).

 

Heck, even the Des Moines excels at two roles over the Moskva - First and foremost as an escort due to excellent AA and secondly its low detection range; With the concealment spec you can actually sneak up upon enemy cruisers and lay waste to multiple ships in a short span of time. Even the Moskva would get its a** whooped vs a DM 1v1 close range.

 

The ship's lack of torpedoes makes it unsuitable of chicken race against other cruisers, and torpedo dive runs against BBs.

 

So to summarize:

You can't brawl with the ship due to paper armor and lack of torpedoes. I honestly believe any other T10 CA would wreck the Moskva if it came down to 1v1 close range.

You fail at escort role due to crappy AA,and concealment, not to mention the focus you're going to receive from enemies; You're an even higher priority target than a stationary Yamato at mid range. (I guarantee you Moskva owners can attest to this statement.)

The ship falls short at the sniping role in comparison to both the Zao and the Hindenburg - Want HE spam fest? - Go Zao. Want AP spam fest? - Go Hinden.

 

So where does that leave us? - Well. While the Moskva can do *some* things the other CAs can, it does it so *very* mediocre/meekly. Imo, a small buff to either the HE or AP damage would be in order, and if not that, at least some buff to the ship's armor.

One huge issue right now for the ship, which I honestly feel will never go away, is the fact that you also get so focused while sailing in the Moskva. I don't think it's due to the novely of people having a new ship in game which you can fire upon with impunity, but rather the fact that you're gonna score massive hits on it whether you fire AP or HE on it. It just melts.

 

So, boys and girls. IF you have faced off with a Moskva in one of your games, or consider yourselves one of the few unlucky people who actually invested in this ship - What are you thoughts on it? Is it up on par with the other CAs? What roles do you think it fulfills? - I'm actually really eager to hear what people have to say of it.

 

Oh, and one last thing - Please don't drag the preliminary stats of the Moskva into this thread. They don't account for anything considering which people actually own the ship right now. Thanks.

 

 

Edited by netc0rd

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Silly me, completely forgot to touch on the subject of radar.

 

Having the radar on the Moskva doesn't make it an efficient DD hunter imo, nor a support of your fleet in any way. First off, the cooldown is too long. Secondly - Seeing as you need to be within 11,7km of a DD means you'll probably run too close to enemy fleet, since, arguably, you'll probably try to use the first radar pop early in game to cancel DD capping zones. 

Getting too close to enemy fleet while being spotted by enemy DD - EVEN if you spot that DD in return, will net you a one way ticket to the spectate game due to the focus you will receive from enemy fleet.

 

And should you survive that initial encounter with enemy DDs you then play the waiting game, dodging 10+ torp salvoes until you can use your radar again. All whilst being perma spotted. Ain't game mechanics lovely?

Edited by netc0rd

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Must say this , i  dont expect u know how play when most of your ships free xp

 

This and why didn't you simply watch youtube reviews of the ship first? There is more than enough of them...

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I did, and it seemed like a viable option to the Hindenburg at the time, hence why I got it.

 

Considering how much the russian ship line differs in calibre (shell trajectory and whatnot), armor, if the ships are equipped with torps or not I deem the comment about "l2p earlier ships first" not worth my time. You don't learn to play the Moska by playing either the Budyonny nor the Dimitri. That's a fact.

Edited by netc0rd

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I did, and it seemed like a viable option to the Hindenburg at the time, hence why I got it.

 

Considering how much the russian ship line differs in calibre (shell trajectory and whatnot), armor, if the ships are equipped with torps or not I deem the comment about "l2p earlier ships first" not worth my time. You don't learn to play the Moska by playing either the Budyonny nor the Dimitri. That's a fact.

 

Actually you do. They are all quite weak in the armor and have huge citadels, just like Moskva. The only difference is that Moskva has better guns and is even bigger. I guess staying at bigger range (15km+), sticking to your BBs and using the amazing shell velocity your guns have is the best option, but I haven't played the ship so I can't really be 100% sure if that is the way it should be played.

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I've tried what you suggest. For whatever reason the enemy seems to focus you despite the fact that you have friendly BBs inbetween you and your target. Might be bad luck, I don't know. I just feel singled out in the Moskva no matter what situation I end up in, and it really sucks.

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I've tried what you suggest. For whatever reason the enemy seems to focus you despite the fact that you have friendly BBs inbetween you and your target. Might be bad luck, I don't know. I just feel singled out in the Moskva no matter what situation I end up in, and it really sucks.

 

Well, it is a new ship and everybody wants to see how it takes damage/kill it I guess. Try to stay angled towards the opponents as much as you can.

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One does not simply question a ship's viability when the God of Ships Flamu says it's a stronk boat

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Well, to quote Flamu "It's a jack of all trades, except it has no torpedoes".

 

It might be able to do most things, problem is, any other CA can do "most things" but also have some sort of extra feature. The Hinden has amazing AP damage and torps, the Zao has concealment, awesome torps and excellent HE damage. The DM has RoF, concealment and excellent frontal armor.

The Moskva feels left out I feel.

 

Just me?

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No, it's not just you. I had similar impressions about Moskva when I got it, and like you I received similar comments ("You don't know how to play..." etc.) when I wrote how I felt about the ship. Mastering a certain ship takes its time, but even the initial impressions should not be derided as they can be helpful to others planning to get the same ship. Opinions may change over time as one gets more proficient with a ship; or they may not - not all ships suit to all players. Personally I won't give Moskva up as a waste of credits yet, but from my limited experience it currently seems that its guns are its only redeeming feature. So far I've had most success with Moskva in games where the number of players per side is lower than usual, say like 8 or less.

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Agree with the OP on most points it is a jack of all trades, master of none...

 

BUT you can do quite well in it due to its rather amazing arcs, specc demolition expert and it is a real flame thrower (will leave u open to air attacks but CVs are so rare these days anyways...), and for...sake remember to specc full concealment, 18km stock is bloody horrible, 14km is manageable... and even then you take ALOT of dmg from BBs, does not matter what angle you are posed at if it hits it does massive dmg and that is even when they do not hit your citadel..  

 

If i am to point at my main problem with her though it is her agility, this thing turn like a brick in sirup.. on paper it is rather similar to the Hindenburg, but i have no problems in Hindenburg for some reason.. This force you to play very passively in her something I do not enjoy one single bit. (and yes I watched every youtube video i could find of her and I did not plan on getting her that fast but curiosity got the better of this cruiser loving player).

 

To be honest: I find it a rather boring ship to play, it does not encourage you to play "actively" like the other cruisers and I love to play cruisers. And because of this the Moskva was not worth the money imo, hell pixels are never truly worth the money, BUT I can't be **** to grind through ships I do not enjoy.

 

PS: these are my impressions after 7 games and 97k avg dmg. 

PPS: For those who say L2P or you need to grind to understand the gameplay at tier X, bla bla, i have experience from all tiers mostly at high tiers, I'm an able cruiser player and my profile is open if you feel the need to check.

 

Edited by JohnA87

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Well, to quote Flamu "It's a jack of all trades, except it has no torpedoes".

 

It might be able to do most things, problem is, any other CA can do "most things" but also have some sort of extra feature. The Hinden has amazing AP damage and torps, the Zao has concealment, awesome torps and excellent HE damage. The DM has RoF, concealment and excellent frontal armor.

The Moskva feels left out I feel.

 

Just me?

 

Considering your excellent statistical performance, I'm inclined to believe that you know how to play this ship even if you used Free XP to skip the grind, so it's good to hear about your experiences with it.

 

Looking at the ship's statistics, it definitely appears to be a jack of all trades, which could be considered a weakness, but overall your bad performance can probably be accounted to be being focused unusually often.

Considering how rare the Moskva is at the moment you are very likely to receive special attention and any ship dies quickly to focus fire, the Russians in particular.

 

Even though I haven't played the ship myself I would like to disagree with at least one of your points, though, which is the brawling.

 

Due to its 170mm it seems to be pretty good at brawling even with BBs. I fought against a Moskva in the training room with my Yamato and it was able to bounce a ridiculous amount of shots even at close range if it was angled.

 

Here is an example: https://gfycat.com/MadeupPhysicalIndianelephant

 

It managed to bounce 8 out of 8 Yamato AP shells at 1,4 KM and it was barely angled in relation to my 2 frontal guns.

 

However, as soon as it is properly showing its broadside, it receives an incredible amount of citadel hits.

 

 

Edited by Kurbain

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Considering your excellent statistical performance, I'm inclined to believe that you know how to play this ship even if you used Free XP to skip the grind, so it's good to hear about your experiences with it.

 

Looking at the ship's statistics, it definitely appears to be a jack of all trades, which could be considered a weakness, but overall your bad performance can probably be accounted to be being focused unusually often.

Considering how rare the Moskva is at the moment you are very likely to receive special attention and any ship dies quickly to focus fire, the Russians in particular.

 

Even though I haven't played the ship myself I would like to disagree with at least one of your points, though, which is the brawling.

 

Due to its 170mm it seems to be pretty good at brawling even with BBs. I fought against a Moskva in the training room with my Yamato and it was able to bounce a ridiculous amount of shots even at close range if it was angled.

 

Here is an example: https://gfycat.com/MadeupPhysicalIndianelephant

 

It managed to bounce 8 out of 8 Yamato AP shells at 1,4 KM and it was barely angled in relation to my 2 frontal guns.

 

However, as soon as it is properly showing its broadside, it receives an incredible amount of citadel hits.

 

 

 

I have brawled against battleships in it, even "won" a brawl with a yamato (we both had the cavalry show up in time to end us both but he called it his loss since he just bounced). 

 

But the funny thing is, I also tried brawling a des moines the same way I brawled the yamato...nope.jpg it melted me down like butter while somehow my guns could not pen anything.

 

I loved the shchors (still in port) and the kirov, but when it comes to moskva I am still left with the feeling of hindenburg being able to do all that a moskva can (except for radar and HE spam but we have zao for that) but better.

 

Still, it might be just me sucking at how to moskva right now or not being able to moskva since it`s "omg the new kid, beat him!".

 

If people think I cannot into russian ca at all, behold proof of clubbing:

shchors lol.jpg (this was my 3rd game in it :P)

 

I still try hard to make moskva work the way I want it to though, so maybe I will get a enlightenment :D

shchors lol.jpg

Edited by Noobsplatter

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I got my Moskva last night. While I do agree with the points the OP is making I wouldn't say it's a waste of credits that's for sure. The main selling point she has are undoubtedly the guns , which no matter what you say are the best on a CA. The shells get faster at 19.4 km then they do on a hindenburg at 17.8, not to mention they are stupidly accurate. AP can easily penetrate battleships, got citadels with it even at 18km away, 20% chance of fire with demolition expert is pretty damn strong as well , it's very easy to keep fires up on bb's especially with the extra range.

 

I only played 3 games on it so far , won and survived all 3 and got about 90k average damage. You do get focused a lot since you're detected from really far away , but the massive hp pool plus the decent armor lets you soak quite a lot of damage.

 

I quite like the idea behind it to be perfectly honest , you out-range most cruisers , you can do massive damage, and since you are bound to attract enemy fire your team can focus them while you dodge shells, as maneuverability is actually really solid on this ship.

 

Also bear in mind that I don't have my concealment expert yet, with that I would basically get the same detection as dmitri, and with dmitri I actually managed to ambush quite a lot of cruisers without them even knowing what hit them.

 

P.S.: In one of the games I played I faced a Des Moines 1 on 1, he was dead in 30 seconds as I scored 6 citadels on him and a bunch of normal hits. I was barely scratched. Des moines has 18.2 km range , but the shells at that distance have a stupidly large arc, Moskva shoots lazers at that distance , 9 seconds or so travel time.

Edited by Appropriate

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Sorry about this, but i feel the need to repeat myself.

 

For ME the Moskva is not a bad ship, but she is BORING.. why? Because she excel at nothing except sniping with those very nice laser guns and thus it simply does not feel fun to play. The way it currently is you are reduced to hanging back with the BBs and hope that you do not get hit by enemy BBs, does this make her bad? ofc not, it simply make her boring.. 

 

Another reason why I think this is a shame is the fact that another long range sniper, means more camping and the fact that one of its cool features namely the radar gets neglected, atm i think it will be more interesting to see what happens to the DD population when the USN gets their radar tomorrow and hydro gets buffed then the introduction of the sovjet tier IX and X. 

 

So not bad, by all means she's not bad, but boring as it encourages "passive" play and yet more camping.. 

 

Thus to answer the OPs original topic question, what is the role of the Moskva? Well, reviewing her strengths: that is to provide accurate long range fire support, ideally behind or around friendly BBs... Why not get up medium/close? because you are huge, sluggish and easily focussed, at least until the enemy BBs are dead.

Edited by JohnA87

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Thanks for the input, people. Even the ones claiming "l2p".

 

OnT: I kinda agree with your assessment of the role of the Moskva, JohnA87.

I think the reason I'm so dissapointed with the ship is the fact that the Moskva, on paper, packs a really decent thickness of armor all across. This I actually looked up before I started the grind towards the ship, hoping it would be one of those ships I could use to "lead the charge", since it kinda caters to my playstyle; being an overly aggresive one. Then reality (IE He bombardment) hit me, and I quickly realized I couldn't play the ship like I wanted to. Hence this thread.

Though I have to point out that, if I want to snipe at enemy in a cruiser, I would do so in my Zao. I'm impervious to damage since I stealth fire with my concealment, and my HE damage AND fire chance are higher. I just don't understand the Moskva's appeal for that particular role.

 

Also - The last thing this game needed was another sniping ship, although it seems this is exactly what it does best, it also turns the match development stagnant, which already is bad as it is.

These are my 5 cents tho, and people may agree or disagree.

I still hope for more imput by people who have faced off with the Moskva or bought it themselves. Let's keep the discussion going, shall we?

Edited by netc0rd

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I just thought I'd add my experience against Moskva as well. I played Dmitri A LOT, about 100 games to get my Moskva. In those games I encountered Moskva twice. First time I destroyed her before the guy even realized what was going on , he showed her broadside at 8 km away, 7 citadels within 20 seconds or so and a bunch of normal hits. Second experience was quite similar, a brave soldier in his moskva decided to push our team by himself, this time I only finished her off with 5 citadels after the guy beached himself 5 km away showing full broadside. Granted both of these experiences were quite early on when those people didn't quite know how to play the ship probably. But saying that I do believe that moska is not the kind of ship you want to get close and personal with when you're driving her.

 

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Writing this, I have 25 games with Moskva under my belt. My play with her has improved somewhat, and she has started to feel like a decent ship; nothing spectacular, but ok. Still, like others have said, she seems to lack "that something" which makes a ship stand out among others of the same tier.

 

My initial impression: 6/10.

Current impression: 8/10.

 

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There is two groups of players.  Players in first grup have to make new ship how fast is possible and players in second group can wait until first reasonable stats show up. 

Btw. first thing what i did when Moskva hits live server. Training room vs 15x Moskva bots was enough for me to see how powerfull her armor is. Instakill from fullHP after one salvo from Hindenburg ( 12 citadels). 

I knew, i dont want to play this line from the moment i saw their stats. This line has potencial. It needs to be tested and balanced first but not by me :trollface:  

Edited by skvido

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There is two groups of players.  Players in first grup have to make new ship how fast is possible and players in second group can wait until first reasonable stats show up. 

Btw. first thing what i did when Moskva hits live server. Training room vs 15x Moskva bots was enough for me to see how powerfull her armor is. Instakill from fullHP after one salvo from Hindenburg ( 12 citadels). 

I knew, i dont want to play this line from the moment i saw their stats. This line has potencial. It needs to be tested and balanced first but not by me :trollface:  

 

Well that a Hindenburg will wreck a broadsiding Moskva is really no big surprise, indeed broadside the Hindenburg can wreck almost anything thanks to incredible AP DPM... However up close and angled the armor on the Moskva can take quite a beating from cruisers.. Indeed i 100-0ed a Hindenburg this morning while "running away" from him, kept him at 9-12km while pointing all 3 guns at him (i barely had to wriggle), steady dmg while he kept on bouncing of my hull, i had lost barely 10k hp when he was down and that was also from an NC sniping at me..

 

This was however an example of the Moskvas armour VS other cruisers when done right (or wrong in his case), and i still feel that the Hindenburg is a stronger ship overall.. 

Edited by JohnA87

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