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BabyAdmiral

I love my new battleship, but...

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... how much better do I need to perform to overcome being put in the weaker team?

 

I have always been impressed by players so good that they can carry their team and get win rates pushing (and sometimes exceed) 60%.

 

My two last games were somewhat poor, so I had an average damage of approx. 90.000 after the 5 first losses. I love the Amagi though.. plays great. :great:

 

IJN_Amagi_zpsprocnyq0.jpg

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7 battles are not much in the Amagi, she will take up a lot of games, so plenty time to rectify this. And doing this well in a stock Amagi, well I can't only conclude that you are likely to do rather well once she is fully upgraded, and then you will be able to carry hard.

7 games are possible to have been a mix of being stuffed into T10 matches and potato teams and finally just a couple games where your yourself had bad dispersion for the game, or even did less well. Once you hit 25 games you should begin to see what you are capable of, though in your case with at least 7 initial losses it might not be entirely descriptive.

 

In other words, don't worry, you are doing fine and eventually that will translate into wins.

Edited by Unintentional_submarine

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And doing this well in a stock Amagi, well I can't only conclude that you are likely to do rather well once she is fully upgraded, and then you will be able to carry hard.

 

Well, part of my point/question was how well do one have to play to being able to actually carry? I'm not worried about my win rate. I understand statistics (and these games just underline the fact that win rate doesn't tell anything about proficiency for 99% of players - only the very best ones), and realise that my win rate will even out at around 50% over time, just like with any other ship.

 

The very first game, I made 4 kills, 112k damage and lost. Next three games 1-2 kills per game and around 95k damage, still lost. I'm sure the Amagi is better when fully upgraded, but I can't count on being able to play even better than this on average. I've always consider myself (in WoT too), to be slightly above the average Joe, yet still well within the bell curve of the normal distribution. Thus, according to the central limit theorem, one would except 50% victories and 50% losses over time as my contribution isn't significant enough to make an impact on a regular basis. But this time around, I felt my games were waay above average performance, but I still seem to be placed well within the group of players who can't make a decisive impact (carry).

 

So my question still stands: how much does it take? What is the average damage at tier 8 BB for those who have a win rate of 60% and above?

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In other words, don't worry, you are doing fine and eventually that will translate into wins.

 

I just checked your stats, and see that you lie around 90k average damage on all three of your tier 8 BBs. That might just be where this threshold lies. Maybe, just maybe, I will be able to reach your level of performance sometime in the future. :honoring:

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It takes no specific amount. There are also factors that don't mean damage, like you taking the attention of the enemy ships letting your team cap and/kill.

I have seen people brag about doing 150k damage, but never left the two rearmost lines and only really racked up the damage when the enemy came looking for them after the team was killed off. In those cases, it would take an epic amount of damage to carry, as effectively they left their team to their fate and then had to fight the enemy team solo later on.

 

Amagi gets a lot better. She gets massive increases in penetration, rudder shift and HP. Her armour also gets better, though it will never be great, but at least it won't be a squishy as in stock (most of the armour increases are internal and the turrets). Thus she gets a lot better at being closer to the battle, when that is required.

 

So if you can do this well in stock, you can expect better performance in upgraded form. Might not be more damage done, but your impact on the battlefield is likely to increase.

 

 

I just checked your stats, and see that you lie around 90k average damage on all three of your tier 8 BBs. That might just be where this threshold lies. Maybe, just maybe, I will be able to reach your level of performance sometime in the future. :honoring:

 

Thanks.:):honoring:

For me it lies there. But I know people who can carry with less damage done. It is all about presence, and the potential damage you can do.

 

An Iowa sitting bow on can be very hard to dislodge unless you have destroyers nearby, or a Yamato. However if you move down a flank, you can either do a lot of damage to him, or he will spot you and abandon his position. In the end the result is much the same.

Edited by Unintentional_submarine
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Well, part of my point/question was how well do one have to play to being able to actually carry? I'm not worried about my win rate. I understand statistics (and these games just underline the fact that win rate doesn't tell anything about proficiency for 99% of players - only the very best ones), and realise that my win rate will even out at around 50% over time, just like with any other ship.

 

The very first game, I made 4 kills, 112k damage and lost. Next three games 1-2 kills per game and around 95k damage, still lost. I'm sure the Amagi is better when fully upgraded, but I can't count on being able to play even better than this on average. I've always consider myself (in WoT too), to be slightly above the average Joe, yet still well within the bell curve of the normal distribution. Thus, according to the central limit theorem, one would except 50% victories and 50% losses over time as my contribution isn't significant enough to make an impact on a regular basis. But this time around, I felt my games were waay above average performance, but I still seem to be placed well within the group of players who can't make a decisive impact (carry).

 

So my question still stands: how much does it take? What is the average damage at tier 8 BB for those who have a win rate of 60% and above?

It doesn't neccesarily take all that much(Not quite 60%, but close enough).

sC5HX1K.png

Thing is, no matter how well you play, you will only be able to carry a team if the rest of your team is at least somewhat competent or the enemy team are a bunch of complete idiots. If your team is playing badly and the enemy team is playing well, it's almost impossible to solo carry.

Also, damage dealt alone doesn't tell about how much you contributed to the team. It's also about finishing off low health enemies, defending caps, pushing flanks and things like that.

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Well, part of my point/question was how well do one have to play to being able to actually carry? I'm not worried about my win rate. I understand statistics (and these games just underline the fact that win rate doesn't tell anything about proficiency for 99% of players - only the very best ones), and realise that my win rate will even out at around 50% over time, just like with any other ship.

 

You have dealt 79K average damage so far in a stock Amagi, which is an excellent performance. I'm sure you have simply been unfortunate and been on 7 bad teams in a row.

Your winrate is definitely going to greatly improve if you keep up your current performance.

 

However, keep in mind that carrying teams isn't simply about dealing large amounts of damage. It's about making the correct tactical decisions and dealing damage at the right times to the correct targets.

50K damage dealt at just the right moments to the right ships can be a lot more useful to the team than 100K damage randomly dealt to enemy ships.

 

If you often like to sit at the back and let your teammates receive all the damage while you chip away at the enemies and die in a 5vs1 battle at the end of the match with 150K damage dealt, you can end up with a sub-par winrate despite high average damage.

 

For example, here are a few ways that a player can increase their chances to win without dealing much (or any) damage:

 

1. Spotting torpedoes and enemy ships for your teammates.

2. Going on a suicide mission into your base that is being capped by enemies to stop them from taking it.

3. Creating a distraction and ensuring the enemies focus their firepower on you to stop your teammates from taking damage; Hopefully not dying in the process yourself.

4. Talking strategy with your teammates or at least pointing out important information like an incoming carrier snipe or torpedo carpet.

5. Protecting your BBs/CVs from enemy planes.

6. Making the right decision between going back and defending your base or sailing into the enemy base and trying to capture it instead.

 

If you plan on dealing damage to the enemy team, try to focus on their DDs first assuming you have a reasonable chance to hit them. They have the least HP but one of the largest influences on the outcome of the battles, particularly in domination mode.

 

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Beta Tester
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Well, it seems random teams still creates random outcomes. I haven't played particularly well in this ship, but I keep getting put on the winning side:

 

Budyonny_01_zpsr6mlphst.jpg

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Well, it seems random teams still creates random outcomes.

 

First: Yes of course.

 

And Second: Having these win rates with a number of battles <50 or even <100 is not really telling you about carry potenital or anything like that. Sometimes it is, but it isn't very likely. For example: Upgrades shift the matchmaker into higher tiers and a ship that did incredibly well at - for example - Tier V, can underperform or just become a piece of junk when it gets matchmaked into higher Tiers. Randomeness about stuff like how critical your team is potatoing around or how good the rng of your opponent is at the time he shoots at you is a big factor and should never be unterestimated. 

 

 

 

Edited by LeonardoBlue

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Beta Tester
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YYou like the Amagi? did you free exp to hull B?

 

Don't you? It's pretty much the awesomest ship in the game (along with Nagato). :izmena:  And now I even have a 50% win ratio to go with it. :great:

 

Yeah... I think I might have free exp'd my way to hull B. Can't quite remember though.

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I love my new BB, too

qqq.png

 

Would have preferred a t8 USN prem BB, tho :(

 

On topic: As already pointed out: Your sample size is too small - but your average dmg is good so keep going :P

Edited by aboomination

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Don't you? It's pretty much the awesomest ship in the game (along with Nagato). :izmena:  And now I even have a 50% win ratio to go with it. :great:

 

Yeah... I think I might have free exp'd my way to hull B. Can't quite remember though.

 

The amagi together with the Mogami are the 2 worst ships I've played so far (stock at least)

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... how much better do I need to perform to overcome being put in the weaker team?

 

My two last games were somewhat poor, so I had an average damage of approx. 90.000 after the 5 first losses.

That isn't enough even at Tier 5.

Got successive ~104, ~104 and ~114k damage defeats.

 

In first Strait match told to prioritize enemy destroyers.

Instead fail division Wickes and Karlsruin suicided with one BBaby, Hosho who couldn't be bothered to move his arse to secure side of the map and ARP Haruna (who should have known better) then suiciding against torps of Nicholas while for some reason heading to that failed side. Neither did other carrier (not slow USN one but fast Zuiho) understand to run away from enemy destroyer, despite of plenty of time for that.

 

In second match in Neighbours told BBs to follow own cruisers to support them and smash enemy cruisers.

Of course one Dorck suicided against half the enemy team past my capping DD and team's strongest BBs went full Balless&Brainless... Hiding firmly behind cruisers at max range, failing to really hit even enemy BBs and god forbid, smash enemy cruisers. After useless braindead sailing avoiding defending caps against enemy cruisers they then suicided by keeping sides toward enemy BBs.

30k average damage in Nagato is just bad. (did myself 40k AP damage against cruisers+BB in that match with 130mm AP)

 

And in New Dawn match one cruiser and three other DDs and what little was on other flank just basically suicided.

While on the flank I was pushing BBs failed to do their job of punching side showing enemy BBs.

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The amagi together with the Mogami are the 2 worst ships I've played so far (stock at least)

 

how is that possible, to get to the amagi you have to play the myogi.

stock myogi is worse than south carolina. scratch that its worse than a chikuma 1v1

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Fully upgrade amagi and learn how to angle well against multiple BBs, then delete them 1 by 1 from the top to the bottom of the seas. Never take out your eyes from enemy BBs cause you can be easly citadelled so you have to watch out constantly that, then be smart, position yourself well and while reloading change course and angle even more, it takes time but you'll succeed on improving that skill. It's how I used to play my Amagi in ranked season 2 and that got me to rank3, then i got burnt down to pieces on incompetent gameplay and lack of days to reach rank1 haha.

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how is that possible, to get to the amagi you have to play the myogi.

stock myogi is worse than south carolina. scratch that its worse than a chikuma 1v1

 

I'm not even counting Myogi, that's not a ship xD It's a piece of iron waiting to be sunk.

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Myogi isn't that bad tbh. Tier for tier a quadrillion times better than Mikasa and even that ship got a fan club, probably because of her stunning looks. 

Played Myogi as a complete noob and got 40k average dmg out of it, more than I did with the Wyoming that I played about a month before the Myogi. 

Turret traverse and reload time are good and 28 knots top speed make her quite flexible and able to get into firing range which is way larger than that of the Wyoming btw.

 

Would be interesting to rebuy those ships we bought in the very beginning and see what they are really worth :)

Edited by aboomination

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Myogi isn't that bad tbh. Tier for tier a quadrillion times better than Mikasa and even that ship got a fan club, probably because of her stunning looks. 

Played Myogi as a complete noob and got 40k average dmg out of it, more than I did with the Wyoming that I played about a month before the Myogi. 

Turret traverse and reload time are good and 28 knots top speed make her quite flexible and able to get into firing range which is way larger than that of the Wyoming btw.

 

Would be interesting to rebuy those ships we bought in the very beginning and see what they are really worth :)

 

I still regard the Myogi as junk and I make sure to farm them whenever i see them. There is simply no reason why it's better to take one over a Kongo. I'd rather run the risk of meeting higher tiers than be in a inferior ship.

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There is simply no reason why it's better to take one over a Kongo.

 

They aren't even at the same tier so why ask such silly questions in the first place? :P

Kongou is everybody's darling.

 

latest?cb=20131210222539

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I love my new BB, too

qqq.png

 

Would have preferred a t8 USN prem BB, tho :(

 

On topic: As already pointed out: Your sample size is too small - but your average dmg is good so keep going :P

 

wow after 36 games my average damage is about 35,000 on the Texas, I love playing the yellow rose but I must be doing something wrong! Well done grrrrh.

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Texas is slow so plan ahead, also regarding her turret rotation speed (use ctrl + x to move them into position before you need them). 

Also I picked the main gun range upgrade module over further AA mods so I can have more impact - CV avoid the Texas anyway and 1-2 torps won't kill her.

Only downside is the dispersion on her main guns but that's clearly the balancing factor.

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