Russian Cruisers , LIVE

[Earl_of_Northesk]

 

wait until all the srubs get the ships

the stats will even out fast

 

So far, for low tier, we miss the thousands and thousands of completely new players. As of now, it was probably mostly experienced players rushing through the tiers. I don't think Bogatyr, for example, is OP. It's better than Kolberg, sure, but compared to the St. Louis it lacks HP and armour. It can dish out a lot of damage, but it's not very good at taking it...

 

[cherry2blost]

Í like to be put in Tier 8 games with my Buddy 

it is a Kutuzov with better armor 1 less turret and worse AA 

you get tons of XP in those games

 

also angle with Buddy and no cruiser will penetrate you

 

Buddy is probably the best overall of the T6's I have played so far... as long as you look after your citadel that is...

 

[allufewig]

At least for me, this leads to two interesting questions:

 

1. Is this intentional from WGs side, or are they not better at testing the ships? If it is the former we know we can not trust anything they say about "balancing", and if it is the latter they have to work hard to get their act together.

 

2. Are the supertesters and community contributors and such that tested the ships ready to eat some humble pie and apologise to all they have ridiculed for thinking to Russian cruisers will be OP?

 

 

I am really 100% sure we have a population-bias here. Svietlana for example is mediocre at very best. Its probably better than the Karlsruhe, but thats it. There is just no way that - given an identical playerbase for both - it would ever beat a Kuma or Phoenix.

[von_Boeg]

Sorry, it does not add up. Let us look at the stats for Tier 4 from Maplesyrup for last week. The playerbase for all four silver ships are quite similar in size, and the number of battles played in it is similar to the other ships; there will not be any major shifts in the stats based on these figures.

 

<

tier	name	players	total battles	average of rates
				battles	win	exp	damage	warship	aircraft	survived	kill /
							caused	destroyed	destoryed		death
4	Kuma	1783	34131	19.14	49.48	571	19997	0.66	0.17	20.47	0.83
4	Iwaki Alpha	5	84	16.8	61.07	808	27336	0.97	0.4	28.47	1.36
4	Yubari	34	449	13.21	51.77	774	24629	0.85	2.18	28.75	1.19
4	Karlsruhe	2382	42440	17.82	47.27	497	14044	0.45	0.03	19.39	0.56
4	Svietlana	1337	21331	15.95	51.78	724	24076	0.79	0.07	23.87	1.04
4	Phoenix	1813	33737	18.61	49.06	603	17413	0.52	0.22	20.29	0.65

[allufewig]

Misunderstanding I guess.

 

I had the playerskill in mind, not the amount of players. The captains (those in front of the monitor) of the ru cruisers must be much better on average than the players of other lines. Probably veterans in search of new toys or something.

 

 

[von_Boeg]

Misunderstanding I guess.

 

I had the playerskill in mind, not the amount of players. The captains (those in front of the monitor) of the ru cruisers must be much better on average than the players of other lines. Probably veterans in search of new toys or something.

 

 

 

 

Yeah but that is the thing, there is nothing to base that assumption on. The simplest way to look at that would be to compare the latest week with the latest day on warships.today, first numbers are last week and last numbers are last day:

 

Tier 2

51%, 15,4K vs 51% 16K

 

Tier 3

54%, 28,8K vs 53% 28,5K

 

Tier 4

52%, 25,8K vs 51% 25,5K

 

Tier 5

54%, 32,8% vs 53%, 30,9K

 

Tier 6

58%, 41,8K vs 57%, 39,8K

 

If very good players played the ships to high tiers in the start to such a degree some of you are claiming we would see a significant difference between the numbers for "last week" and "last day" in the stats. To be sure, there is a difference between the two, and that clearly shows that early super players indeed have an inpact. However, that inpact is only minor, and it does not change the general preformance of the ships in a significat way.

 

So we can therefore say that these ships are around the area where they will end up, and I would call that OP.

[Fluffy_Pillow]

 

So far i Enjoyed T5 and I really enjoyed T6 and T7 were i felt i really had an impact on the game doing damage kills and winning a majority of the played battles. Total disaster at T8... It seems Chapayev is a unlucky ship for me. Does not seem to matter what I do in the battle i play in this cruiser. The team will loose every almost every engagement i have in this cruiser. Its very frustrating.

 

[KillSlim]

I'm at Tier 6, trying a similar play style I used with the Kirov, and I can't stand it. It's too big. It doesn't matter if you angle because the guns you're against at T6-7-8 will laugh at your """""armour""""" and punch straight through. If you hold back and support ships that push ahead everything will hit you because you're an easy target that has a citadel the size of a destroyer, usually regardless of manoeuvres. Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong? I see some people posting that they hate Buddy and others say they love it. 

[Fluffy_Pillow]

So after a few battles in Dmitri Donskoi I can say it is definitely worth the grind. Coming from a fully upgraded Chapayev to a stock Dmitri Donskoi the Dmitri still fells like a giant upgrade. Handeling is better, guns are, better armor is better i can't think of anything that is not better.  Chappy was a painful grind and i ended up using free xp it was just so horrible but it was worth it. The weakness of Dmitri is really the size of the ship and placement of the guns. Even if it looks great with 12 guns the placement of the rear turret gives you 9 guns in reality most of the time unless if you want to show your whole side. Yes the caliber is not great at T9 so you will not dish out those massive citadel hits like with Roon but the guns are very accurate and has high velocity which makes it a very good dd hunter and relative good chance of setting things on fire. AP are still ok against cruisers showing their side. Best description is that its kind of middle between german and IJN guns.

[Eternus_Damnatio]

Played T4-5-6 and Kirov is my fave so far the guns are epic.

All seem to be plagued by poor turning speed and are fragile.

Just stay off the front line until late game and you are golden.

 

Edit.

Ok what the hell is up with that Moskva just had 27 hits into one flat on broadside with my Roon and ended up with 10k damage.

[von_Boeg]

So, now we have two weeks of stats, and we can see how the development of the Russian cruisers look. First week to the left, second to the right:

 

tier	name	players				tier	name	players
			win	exp	damage				win	exp	damage
					caused						caused
2	Novik	210	40.76	319	9874	2	Novik	220	42.55	325	10068
3	Bogatyr	2186	50.95	566	25443	3	Bogatyr	3559	49.21	518	24221
4	Svietlana	1337	51.78	724	24076	4	Svietlana	4490	50.41	650	23171
5	Kirov	852	53.27	1043	33540	5	Kirov	2835	51.72	925	30015
6	Budyonny	212	58.31	1386	40701	6	Budyonny	964	55.6	1293	37775
7	Shchors	50	57.06	1500	42972	7	Shchors	334	54.33	1410	40093
8	Chapayev	30	57.79	1549	42960	8	Chapayev	120	54.06	1484	41183
9	Dmitri Donskoi	16	53.7	1532	51467	9	Dmitri Donskoi	63	54.93	1564	51941
10	Moskva	22	58.84	1740	68675	10	Moskva	47	54.18	1705	72062

[Admiral_noodle]

Well the stats are sliding. Apart from Novik. As expected. I'm probably pulling down Kirov stats. Can't keep from blowing up

 

if if I had to bet at this point I'd say Buddy OP 

[Gojuadorai]

buddy is op in good players hands

 

question is when average/medicore player get their hands on it will it still be above 51-53% (which is the acceptable range of "OP")

[von_Boeg]

Well the stats are sliding. Apart from Novik. As expected. I'm probably pulling down Kirov stats. Can't keep from blowing up

 

if if I had to bet at this point I'd say Buddy OP 

 

buddy is op in good players hands

 

question is when average/medicore player get their hands on it will it still be above 51-53% (which is the acceptable range of "OP")

 

Next up will be comparison tier by tier!

[von_Boeg]

Here is a tier by tier comparison for last week, and I only took it up to tier 6 since the data for higher tiers are not that good yet. You can draw your own conclusions:

 

<

ation	tier	name	players
				win	exp	damage
						caused
JP	2	Chikuma	194	44.37	394	10326
KM	2	Dresden	415	47.93	387	11952
SN	2	Novik	220	42.55	325	10068
US	2	Chester	262	42.87	356	8288
JP	3	Tenryu	1104	48.09	477	14243
KM	3	Kolberg	1502	48.51	442	13606
SN	3	Bogatyr	3559	49.21	518	24221
US	3	St. Louis	2241	49.18	445	17894
JP	4	Kuma	1328	48.85	551	18660
KM	4	Karlsruhe	2011	47.91	494	13478
SN	4	Svietlana	4490	50.41	650	23171
US	4	Phoenix	1457	48.19	585	16502
JP	5	Furutaka	1421	48.09	689	17946
KM	5	Koenigsberg	3336	47.89	656	21393
SN	5	Kirov	2835	51.72	925	30015
US	5	Omaha	2409	48.44	669	20243
JP	6	Aoba	1442	48.29	837	23168
KM	6	Nurnberg	3209	47.33	758	20479
SN	6	Budyonny	964	55.6	1293	37775
US	6	Cleveland	2967	49.25	788	22397

[Procrastes]

I must say, I really like the first impressions of the tier III Bogatyr! It's a beautiful ship with strong lines, it's got good firepower (although not as good as the S:t Louis), it's got good range (better than S:t Louis) and it is fairly maneuverable (I haven't gotten around to compare it's speed to that of S:t Louis). And so far I have been able to stay alive at least long enough to do some serious damage to the enemy team.

 

I'm looking forward to comparing the Svietlana to my Kuma; she's one of my favourite ships. And the Kirov looks promising as a long-range glass cannon. If she's good enough I might put Alexandr Radionov, my Murmansk captain, in command of her as well.

[ApesTogetherStronK]

Well the stats are sliding. Apart from Novik. As expected. I'm probably pulling down Kirov stats. Can't keep from blowing up

 

if if I had to bet at this point I'd say Buddy OP 

 

She's not OP when she plays like a tier 8-10 cruisers at tier 6 and gets constantly one shotted and citadeled by New Mexicos (which seem to be the only ones capable of one shotting her normally) no matter what angle you're at. 

Just had a game where I was soloing defence with another forumite in a Kongo, we'd sunk a destroyer, 3 cruisers and a BB, but still had one more destroyer, 2 cruisers and 2 New Mexicos to go, both cruisers had been damaged by both of us. I'm on 32k health still (I have tier 4 captain perk) and then one of the New Mexicos citadels me 3 times in one salvo through my butt, while I'm dodging and weaving too, this happens a lot with seemingly homing New Mexico shells disabling turrets and scoring citadels on my stern flag pole.  

I really don't enjoy gameplay that doesn't reward skill but just gives some guy dumb luck. 

Granted, she's bloody lethal if left alone though. 

[von_Boeg]

Does anybody find my stats summaries interesting? If so, I might do them for next week as well!

 

[Admiral_noodle]

Does anybody find my stats summaries interesting? If so, I might do them for next week as well!

 

Yes. Although I still think the tier by tier comparisons are favouring SN cruisers because seal clubbers have moved onto them and aren't playing St. Louis etc anymore. (I know this because it's what I've been doing.... )

 

kirov. My my. I've seen a good player play her. He alternates between 17k and dying early on because citadels and 100k monster kraken games with double digit citadels...

[von_Boeg]

 

Yes. Although I still think the tier by tier comparisons are favouring SN cruisers because seal clubbers have moved onto them and aren't playing St. Louis etc anymore. (I know this because it's what I've been doing.... )

 

kirov. My my. I've seen a good player play her. He alternates between 17k and dying early on because citadels and 100k monster kraken games with double digit citadels...

 

Funny you should mention St. L vs Bogotyr, since the amount of players from last week will surprise you. Last week last, the week before that first:

 

 

tier	name	players					tier	name	players
			win	exp	damage					win	exp	damage
					caused							caused
2	Chikuma	194	44.37	394	10326		2	Chikuma	145	46.91	437	11695
2	Dresden	415	47.93	387	11952		2	Dresden	300	48.72	411	12968
2	Novik	220	42.55	325	10068		2	Novik	112	46.07	388	12647
2	Chester	262	42.87	356	8288		2	Chester	180	42.31	357	8301
3	Tenryu	1104	48.09	477	14243		3	Tenryu	986	48.15	487	14393
3	Kolberg	1502	48.51	442	13606		3	Kolberg	1097	48.15	448	12919
3	Bogatyr	3559	49.21	518	24221		3	Bogatyr	1284	49.46	513	22340
3	St. Louis	2241	49.18	445	17894		3	St. Louis	1893	49.1	456	18038
4	Kuma	1328	48.85	551	18660		4	Kuma	1259	49.11	570	19208
4	Karlsruhe	2011	47.91	494	13478		4	Karlsruhe	1622	47.24	499	13572
4	Svietlana	4490	50.41	650	23171		4	Svietlana	2936	49.97	599	22229
4	Phoenix	1457	48.19	585	16502		4	Phoenix	1345	48.05	587	16526
5	Furutaka	1421	48.09	689	17946		5	Furutaka	1288	48.48	703	17958
5	Koenigsberg	3336	47.89	656	21393		5	Koenigsberg	2749	48.62	667	21371
5	Kirov	2835	51.72	925	30015		5	Kirov	2423	50.43	845	28406
5	Omaha	2409	48.44	669	20243		5	Omaha	1972	48.97	686	20023
6	Aoba	1442	48.29	837	23168		6	Aoba	1284	48.97	854	23422
6	Nurnberg	3209	47.33	758	20479		6	Nurnberg	2530	47.53	762	20568
6	Budyonny	964	55.6	1293	37775		6	Budyonny	1086	54.09	1208	35941
6	Cleveland	2967	49.25	788	22397		6	Cleveland	2487	49.04	797	22626
							7	Myoko	1815	48.93	971	30407
							7	Yorck	2421	48.18	924	24527
							7	Shchors	420	52.98	1357	38450
							7	Pensacola	2087	48.34	987	25584

 

Yes the numbers are still dropping a slight bit, but they will not fall enough to end up on par with the other cruisers. Besides, we saw WG saying that they will not touch them yet because of different "opinions" on different servers; it is clear for anyone that actually want to see what the stats are showing by now.

[Gojuadorai]

wel im pretty sure they are op mostly

but i think they are difficult to nerf...

 

I'd rather see slight buffs on the other ships than nerfs on the rus ships tbh

this could lead to high tier problems cause atm high tier cruisers are strong...

[von_Boeg]

wel im pretty sure they are op mostly

but i think they are difficult to nerf...

 

Yeah they are built in a way that really good players get really good results in them and bad ones hate them; a nerf will make them more human compared to others I guess but it will also make them almost unplayable for bad players. This will be tricky to sort out for WG, but we can not have this kind of difference in stats if we want all line to be viable.

[Admiral_noodle]

 

Yeah they are built in a way that really good players get really good results in them and bad ones hate them; a nerf will make them more human compared to others I guess but it will also make them almost unplayable for bad players. This will be tricky to sort out for WG, but we can not have this kind of difference in stats if we want all line to be viable.

 

I don't think they need nerfing *just yet*.  The Kirov is so paper I only realised *today* that I can pen them from any angle with AP... In Murmansk...

 

so as players realise this catastrophic weakness in the Soviet ships - at least the Kirov - they ought to see even more drops in stats. We shall see. 

[von_Boeg]

 

I don't think they need nerfing *just yet*.  The Kirov is so paper I only realised *today* that I can pen them from any angle with AP... In Murmansk...

 

so as players realise this catastrophic weakness in the Soviet ships - at least the Kirov - they ought to see even more drops in stats. We shall see. 

 

You honestly expect the Kirov to drop 8K in avarage damage just due to that?

 

This is getting silly, the Russian cruisers are way too strong and the numbers are obvious; they were obvious from the start to be fair. There are no ifs and buts any logner, and I do not know why so many are just playing along like the stats did not exist. Instead of an honest discussion around this Russian bias we get "lets wait and see", "you are talking conspiracy theories", you have bad stats, haha!" and so on forever 

 

I bet that everyone will come around and say "sure they were too strong, but you see WG changed them so there is no Russian bias" when they eventually will be nerfed.

[Admiral_noodle]

No I just want more time to be sure. I've played the Kirov and so have friends. We've had ridiculously good games in them (the guns on Kirov are amazing) but just as many ridiculous pretty much unavoidable death due to their armour problem, detect ability and steering.

While alive the Kirov does great damage. It often doesn't stay alive very long. The WR is approaching 50%. I'm wondering if the Kirov isn't OP at all but will always do better damage. I'd like to see survive comparisons of Kirov and her peers.

 

not all ships should have comparable damage. Perhaps Kirov is supposed to be a high damage causing fragile cruiser. But the XP gained needs to be in line. 

The stats *do* seem to point to Buddyonny OP as her WR (the only stat that counts in the end) is still well above 50%. If all ships are close to 50% overall then whatever the rest of the stats it doesn't really matter. (Except XP)

There may need to be damage XP and repair cost tweaking if the trend is right for the tier 3-5. But I don't think (from playing them) they need the nerf bat. The tier 6 possibly does.