Ok here we have the RN Cruisers

[dude1416]

I really wished I hadn't seen the videos of these well known players.

How good would they have been with the ships they are now and would there videos look as good.

How many of them come on here and give advice.

Its commanders like your self that are coming on forum giving advice while they just want to just promote the game for WG.

When were chatting about the Konigsberg and you put up a video of you playing the ship was good for new commanders because its how the ship is for all of us and not of a ship that once was.

[StuntMan0369]

 

15km to 15.3km range I would agree with but why would you want to keep the arc ?.

Did when game was closed have such a arc ? and if not why didn't it then ?.

I think that even putting the range upto 15km wouldn't make that much difo because of the arc since the other two are a lot flatter with more range and still able to spot Cleveland before Cleveland can spot any of them.

Also you say about the AA of a Cleveland.

Yes they are good but we are talking random battles here not real life scenarios or platoon battles.

I must have only been in a hand full if that of battles in random that commanders do what should be doing in the ship they chose to play in.

Then you have the missions that WG bring into the game that get players to decide not to play the role of the ship.

So yes AA are good but only if a mission would be if you have to play the role of what the ships are meant for.

Setting X amount of fires, so you have a BB only using HE is stupid but that's what happens instead of to win.

I don't play missions and will never do because I beleave its a team game not to get extra ships or bonuses.

 

The arc is manageable. Of course I want a flatter arc, but does it really need it? Well, since it's been nerfed to this point since OBT and is still performing rather well, it obviously doesn't need it. If the Budyonny does prove to be too effective stat wise, it will probably get nerfed in upcoming patches.

 

As for AA, this is not a problem with cruiser balance, but a problem with the fact that this is an online game. No matter what online game you play, there will always be people doing things that they realistically shouldn't be. There is no avoiding that, and it's just something to take in your stride. Sure, the missions don't exactly help, but a fully AA spec'd Cleveland is a game changer, I have a replay that shows a clutch game win that was only possible because of the ships AA (I'll make a video on this game at some point maybe, I need to get back into YouTube video making - would be good for the newcomers to the game).

[dude1416]

 

The arc is manageable. Of course I want a flatter arc, but does it really need it? Well, since it's been nerfed to this point since OBT and is still performing rather well, it obviously doesn't need it. If the Budyonny does prove to be too effective stat wise, it will probably get nerfed in upcoming patches.

 

As for AA, this is not a problem with cruiser balance, but a problem with the fact that this is an online game. No matter what online game you play, there will always be people doing things that they realistically shouldn't be. There is no avoiding that, and it's just something to take in your stride. Sure, the missions don't exactly help, but a fully AA spec'd Cleveland is a game changer, I have a replay that shows a clutch game win that was only possible because of the ships AA (I'll make a video on this game at some point maybe, I need to get back into YouTube video making - would be good for the newcomers to the game).

 

Yes the arc is manageable to a commander that played it when it didn't have such a arc and know how to use the ships pros and cons.

You are not the commander who is getting the ships in its present state for the first time apart from the latest  ones.

Its like us new commanders could be seen as cannon fodder for closed players to destroy with ships that have been downgraded to the way they are now.

I am not knocking closed commanders at all because they are using whats available unless there was influence for changes ,but you need to admit that with such changes we are finding the game harder to play than your selfs did and we maybe questioning about is this game worth spending money on.

I am looking at your thing with your stats showing while I am typing and have to wonder would they be like that if joined for first time in its present state.

[dude1416]

Do you think that if there was such a arc with the shells when it was closed you would of got as many citadels at long range ?.

So yes if want to be fair on new commanders then the arc needs to change.

[StuntMan0369]

Yes the arc is manageable to a commander that played it when it didn't have such a arc and know how to use the ships pros and cons.

You are not the commander who is getting the ships in its present state for the first time apart from the latest  ones.

Its like us new commanders could be seen as cannon fodder for closed players to destroy with ships that have been downgraded to the way they are now.

I am not knocking closed commanders at all because they are using whats available unless there was influence for changes ,but you need to admit that with such changes we are finding the game harder to play than your selfs did and we maybe questioning about is this game worth spending money on.

I am looking at your thing with your stats showing while I am typing and have to wonder would they be like that if joined for first time in its present state.

 

Do you think that if there was such a arc with the shells when it was closed you would of got as many citadels at long range ?.

So yes if want to be fair on new commanders then the arc needs to change.

 

When the arc changed after CBT, I had to learn to use the Cleveland like that too. Knowing how to shoot with a lower arc means nothing when transferring to a high arc, you came from a relatively low arc in the Omaha to Cleveland, so by that logic you should be fine too, right? My stats don't show my CBT performance, so all my Cleveland games are with the new arc. I went through the exact same progress as the newer players, except I had the knowledge before hand of how to drive and shoot already from my 80-90 CBT games. But, by tier 6, you should be used to the game enough to know how to shoot properly, so we're in very similar circumstances. Also, just to add, citadels at long range? My damage is not from citadel hits, except when I'm brawling with other cruisers at mid-close range.

 

Every ship has its fans and haters. People hate the Cleveland for the arc, people hate the Pensacola for it's massive citadel, doesn't make them bad ships (Heck, Pensacola and Cleveland are some of my better ships). If the Cleveland always had the high arc, I doubt it would have the same reputation, but that's besides the point. It has a high arc now, it's just a case of learning how to play with a high arc (I did it exactly the same as a new player, I was new at the time too).

[dude1416]

 

When the arc changed after CBT, I had to learn to use the Cleveland like that too. Knowing how to shoot with a lower arc means nothing when transferring to a high arc, you came from a relatively low arc in the Omaha to Cleveland, so by that logic you should be fine too, right? My stats don't show my CBT performance, so all my Cleveland games are with the new arc. I went through the exact same progress as the newer players, except I had the knowledge before hand of how to drive and shoot already from my 80-90 CBT games. But, by tier 6, you should be used to the game enough to know how to shoot properly, so we're in very similar circumstances. Also, just to add, citadels at long range? My damage is not from citadel hits, except when I'm brawling with other cruisers at mid-close range.

 

Every ship has its fans and haters. People hate the Cleveland for the arc, people hate the Pensacola for it's massive citadel, doesn't make them bad ships (Heck, Pensacola and Cleveland are some of my better ships). If the Cleveland always had the high arc, I doubt it would have the same reputation, but that's besides the point. It has a high arc now, it's just a case of learning how to play with a high arc (I did it exactly the same as a new player, I was new at the time too).

 

So your unable to say like videos showing before change was like .

So how close now does a Cleveland need to get with the arc it has at 14.1km range to get citadel hits ? and how close would either of the other two need to get with its current shells on a much better flatter line ?.

This isn't just against each other.

[StuntMan0369]

 

So your unable to say like videos showing before change was like .

So how close now does a Cleveland need to get with the arc it has at 14.1km range to get citadel hits ? and how close would either of the other two need to get with its current shells on a much better flatter line ?.

This isn't just against each other.

 

You say that as if the Cleveland relies on citadel hits. I disagree, hitting citadels is nice, its a lot of damage and kills ships quickly, but as soon as any angling is involved, it doesn't matter what cruiser you're in, AP is worthless (Well, the KM can overcome slight angling, but any decent angling will render it useless still). But to answer your question anyway, I will consider attempting citadel hits at roughly 12-12.5km if the enemy is broadside. If I don't feel I can reliably connect or they start angling, it's straight back to HE and the great fire chance (12% per shell, 12 shells going out every 8 seconds, gotta like them odds). The KM can definitely hit citadel hits further than that, I'd bet the Budyonny could too, but that's the purpose of those cruisers. Cleveland is not primarily an anti cruiser ship, it's an escort ship. It will still put up a great fight vs the others, but since it's not it's main role, of course it may be at a slight disadvantage (same for DD's vs Cruisers and BB's vs DD's).

[dude1416]

 

You say that as if the Cleveland relies on citadel hits. I disagree, hitting citadels is nice, its a lot of damage and kills ships quickly, but as soon as any angling is involved, it doesn't matter what cruiser you're in, AP is worthless (Well, the KM can overcome slight angling, but any decent angling will render it useless still). But to answer your question anyway, I will consider attempting citadel hits at roughly 12-12.5km if the enemy is broadside. If I don't feel I can reliably connect or they start angling, it's straight back to HE and the great fire chance (12% per shell, 12 shells going out every 8 seconds, gotta like them odds). The KM can definitely hit citadel hits further than that, I'd bet the Budyonny could too, but that's the purpose of those cruisers. Cleveland is not primarily an anti cruiser ship, it's an escort ship. It will still put up a great fight vs the others, but since it's not it's main role, of course it may be at a slight disadvantage (same for DD's vs Cruisers and BB's vs DD's).

 

But it once was able to citadel at range.

So that was also taken away from its capability as well because of its now lack of range and having such a high arc .

So now its use is for setting fire at range its unable to hit at if you stay with the BBs with a better range until something comes in close and you need to hope that none of the other two cruisers are not with the convoy to knock out the ships before the Cleveland has a chance to hit anything.

 

 

So the Cleveland has to rely these to have a good game.

You need to hope carriers are in battle to hit planes that may come in your direction ,in a battle where commanders know the role of the ships , theres no Cruisers from RU GR with convoy to hit ,citadel and set fires and destroy ships before the clevelands in range to set a fire let alone citadel or destroy a ship.

If you only had either of the RU GR VI cruisers with you and they can be closer to the enemy ships coming in your direction than Cleveland is and still the Cleveland will be spotted in the air and from other ships before the other two are seen.

[dude1416]

Sorry its not balanced for the Cleveland with the RU GN VI Cruisers introduced into the game.

It is very unbalanced and bias against the Cleveland.

How many points will a Cleveland get with a shell setting a fire with HE ?.

GR ?

RU ?

[StuntMan0369]

I'm really starting to lose the purpose of this discussion. I have explained why the ship has it's high arc (balancing factor), why it had to be changed (OP back in CBT), why it's still competitive (differing roles to other cruisers) and you're still calling it bias against the Cleveland? If the Cleveland really is that outmatched, you'd think no-one would play it right? We can't really compare the Budyonny's stats as of now, nowhere near a large enough sample size for it, but I can compare Cleveland vs the Nurnberg. And yeah, Cleveland's still beating it.

 

If this still hasn't got through, then I give up. I've explained it in so much more detail than it realistically needed, but none of it seems to be getting through. Cleveland is doing fine right now, if anything's going to happen, the Budyonny may get nerfed, I highly doubt the Cleveland will get any substantial buff.

[dude1416]

I was only saying the situation where the Cleveland would or not shine in thread 33.

Thread 34 was asking

How many points will a Cleveland get with a shell setting a fire with HE ?.

GR ?

RU ?.

 

Up to you if wanted to say.

 

Anyway thanks for giving your opinion and views on the three ships if I agree with you or not.

You are one of many I do value help from to do with the game and you have helped me to decide.

 

Again thanks

[StuntMan0369]

I was only saying the situation where the Cleveland would or not shine in thread 33.

Thread 34 was asking

How many points will a Cleveland get with a shell setting a fire with HE ?.

GR ?

RU ?.

 

Up to you if wanted to say.

 

Anyway thanks for giving your opinion and views on the three ships if I agree with you or not.

You are one of many I do value help from to do with the game and you have helped me to decide.

 

Again thanks

 

As far as I'm aware, they get the same points for fire's set. Then again, Cleveland has more guns, so it's more likely to set a fire die to more projectiles going in.

 

Also, as if by some higher power, Jingles uploaded a replay with the Cleveland today, and talked about his experience with it since CBT. Whilst I agree with him on certain things, I feel it's necessary to take these things with a pinch of salt. The situation he got in with the Colorado was one such incident; he did the right thing in trying to burn him down, but his aim was pretty off for the superstructure, and he said about AP being worthless on the Colorado's main belt. Well, yeah, main belt is gonna be a problem, but the USN all-or-nothing armour scheme means there's plenty of spots where cruiser AP will pen. The bow of the USN BB's is really weak, and he could have used his AP to get a lot more damage off (He was of course still doomed, and he acknowledged that, going one-on-one with a Colorado is never good).