New tier 7 premium carrier Saipan (5.14)

[Gefreiter_Fritz]

I think, the idea with high tier flyers in small  wings/squads is great. But i have to say that 3 TBs will propably be OP. I suggest, give them 2 Skyraider DBs with 1000lbs bombs and 1 Skyraider TB. It will make it less potentially OP in skilled hands, because its more RNG and on the other hand it stays special with its small number of iron hard wings.   

[ilhilh]

Hmmm.  Interesting squad setup.  I expect I'll get it as I am currently at the Ranger.

[SBS]

I think, the idea with high tier flyers in small  wings/squads is great. But i have to say that 3 TBs will propably be OP. I suggest, give them 2 Skyraider DBs with 1000lbs bombs and 1 Skyraider TB. It will make it less potentially OP in skilled hands, because its more RNG and on the other hand it stays special with its small number of iron hard wings.   

 

That could work, or it could backfire spectacularly as the players who got it (probably can be expected to be players with high tier captains, who know what they are doing and lots of captain skills) suddenly get access to both fires from bombs and floodings. Also, if those 3 TB squad have the same spread as IJN TB then it is not as bad. Those 1000 pound bombs can hurt a lot, and they won't be so difficult to use by the skilled players. Those Bombs can also really cripple DD, and let's not forget that those planes are fast, they can easily get in to position to make the aim marker go alone the ship and have the greatest chance of hitting.

 

My worry is how it can be bought. Is it available to everyone or only people with experience in CV? I am more worried in seeing a flood of Saipans like we saw with Tirpitz and Atago. Especially considering this is a CV, and a lot of people who could buy it probably have no idea what to do. Remember, CV has mirror MM, this means that each team may only have 1 or 2 CV, if you get the new guy/s who have no idea what they are doing, and the other team gets a regular CV player who is just half way decent, then this could mean a lot. Especially if it is a 1v1 CV battle, then there is no other CV to carry his bad performance.

[44smok]

Considering how many bad CVs are on tier 7 already this won't make a big difference.

[RogDodgeUK]

moved to Ships / Aircraft Carrier section

[Kenjiro_]

 

So, an OP premium CV was much needed, huh?

 

OP premium ships are the WG's new monetization policy. T7 CV with T9 fighter and T10 TB? With 3 TB squadrons? This ship will sell like crazy. Like Kutuzov, you nerf the silver competition and release an OP premium...People will buy it like there is no tomorrow. I think most Midway players pissed of with recent nerf will get this ship and club all the seals in the world at T7 with their 5th skilled captain. I also expect a huge nerf on T7 silver carriers if (probably will) wallet warriors can manage to get owned even in this beast.

 

It is really sad to see this game is turning P2W with every new patch and ship release...

[Gefreiter_Fritz]

P2W...  and again...

 

Now just wait what will make it to the server. I dont think it will come with the T9 TBs without some drawbacks in the softstats.

 

By the way, I dont think the MK is that OP, ist stats are average with 50,64% av. winrate and around 35k av. dmg...

[ilhilh]

Considering how many bad CVs are on tier 7 already this won't make a big difference.

 

My 2 tier 7 CVs have the highest ave damage of any of my tier 7 ships...

[44smok]

Was talkin bout player quality

[gr0pah]

I also expect a huge nerf on T7 silver carriers if (probably will) wallet warriors can manage to get owned even in this beast.

 

It is really sad to see this game is turning P2W with every new patch and ship release...

 

P2W...  and again...

 

By the way, I dont think the MK is that OP, ist stats are average with 50,64% av. winrate and around 35k av. dmg...

 

The bolded parts above are related. And it's the one thing, when discussing ship quality ("OPness") that annoyes me the absolute most.

 

Let's say you have a premium ship, we'll call it MK, that subjectively is overpowered in itself. It's not "user friendly"; it takes skill and a sound understanding of game mechanics to get the most of it. It will have drawbacks that really discourages yolo-play, and it's on a higher tier than many low/medium-skill players usually play at. You then allow anyone to buy it. It's likely the absolute majority of all buyers will be average, or below average (at least in this particular ship, for reasons already postulated). This will drag the ship stats, WR included, down. For the good players, it's however a p2w-ship (the tomatoes just bought a p2l-ship, but they provide justification for not nerfing the ship by dragging down average stats). Even if the buyers are equally split in good/bad, the conclusion stands.

 

There's also another even more insidious effect here. If you sell a lot of MK, so there's guaranteed to be one (or 2) on every team, guess what the WR will be? A perfect 50%. But meanwhile, the silver ship users just got dumped on. And this is what people very often fails to see, and which arguably is the worst part. Because it's the silver ship players who provide the back bone of the population, and when they consistently feel their ships can't compete with money-ships, yeah, well, that's bad for the game. Including the MK-owners.

 

Finally. It's as useful, or more, to compare the stats for say the top #25 server players on different ships than server averages. Because that's what tells us how the ship really works. Now do this on the Imperator, Gremlin and Atago (that has a 49% server WR, lol wtf). The Imperator especially is horrifying, even on average stats.

 

EDIT: The point is that the Saipan will likely not at all be OP out of the gate, and likely a loss-machine for average players that struggle in their Bogues and Rangers. But queue the CV aces of the game, with their 18 point Midway-captains (that instantly work, because Premium)...

[terios]

But queue the CV aces of the game, with their 18 point Midway-captains (that instantly work, because Premium)...

 

Actually my Midway's captain is just 17, so that means Saipan won't be OP with me driving it...

 

After update 0.5.3 the whole USN CV line became pretty much useless, except for Langley. They killed (more like annihilated) the Lexi, Essex, Midway with the sacred nerfbat of 0.5.3., Indy and Ranger was nerfed previously with 0.5.1. USN CV line deserves at least one working CV that is not tier 4. The main problem that it's going to be premium. But what else would one expect from a WG product...

 

About Saipan: I think the most important factor that's actually decides how OP the Saipan is the torpedo spread: how wide is the baseline of dropping and what is the angle convergence. If you can easily get 3/3 hits on a Colorado sized ship then it will be OP.

[gr0pah]

 

Actually my Midway's captain is just 17, so that means Saipan won't be OP with me driving it...

 

After update 0.5.3 the whole USN CV line became pretty much useless, except for Langley. They killed (more like annihilated) the Lexi, Essex, Midway with the sacred nerfbat of 0.5.3., Indy and Ranger was nerfed previously with 0.5.1. USN CV line deserves at least one working CV that is not tier 4. The main problem that it's going to be premium. But what else would one expect from a WG product...

 

About Saipan: I think the most important factor that's actually decides how OP the Saipan is the torpedo spread: how wide is the baseline of dropping and what is the angle convergence. If you can easily get 3/3 hits on a Colorado sized ship then it will be OP.

 

Haha touché. But yeah, the cut-off is 15 points, when you get 15 pts it's amazing, and everything above just kinda-nice-to-have.

 

Yup, Langley is great, and fun to play!

 

 

[Poster_2015]

Im waiting for Saipan, although Im kinda torn between that and turpitz (kinda miss playing BBs now i have 2xTX which are meh to play in current meta). I definitely like the general idea - its actually somewhat close to what i proposed (I never said anything about 3 plane squads though)

 

There are obviously concerns about it being OP, but i think that there shouldnt be a big problem with it. It can require some small fine tuning but:

 

- Sure it has T9 planes, but it also has less planes in the air then tier 4. That does balance somehow. 

- it has obviously zero burn capability, so only dot you can do is the flood. Now that isnt that easy to achieve - you need to hit the torps (depending on spread might be harder or easier), and with 3 plane squads staggering attacks can result in your squads being simply killed by AA.

- people fret over t9 torp bombers, however : Essex torp bombers tend to die a lot. DB are a lot more resistant, but i notoriously lose TB to even a fubuki when playing Essex. Losing 1 is not a big deal for essex, losing 1 is a big deal for a saipan group.

- Also remember - while you get t9 planes, the CV is t7, which means it doesnt (or does it - premiums have their own rules, but i doubt it) the 3M upgrade slot. Which means the planes will be actually be less durable. Rangers TB have ~1600 hp with 4 pt perk, Saipan will be probably around 1950-2050. 25% more durable planes are nice, but not gamebreaking imo.

 

All in all, I think it will be fun , but hard to play CV. If the torpedoes will be like US ones just with width cut in half, i guess it will be on strong side, if it will be wider or jap style, it really wont. 

 

 

Edit: Also the fighters will be rather on the weak side in terms of firepower. There are 2 reasons for that if you think a bit over the whole "t9 stuff"

 

- AMMO - half the fighters = half the damage but same ammo. Those fighters will often be winning vs other squad, until suddenly they will run out of ammo. Even if we assume Saipan gets AS , and the others do not, Saipan will have real trouble actually killing stuff. If other CVs get AS they will win vs Saipans.

- Dogfighting perk - while its forgotten, its a perk that i still tend to take on US lower tier CVs. Torpedo speed doesnt affect US torps much (increase in minimal drop distance kinda evens out with drop speed). If you add 20% to other nations DPS it will make them win easily. 

[Ragweek]

 

Actually my Midway's captain is just 17, so that means Saipan won't be OP with me driving it...

 

After update 0.5.3 the whole USN CV line became pretty much useless, except for Langley. They killed (more like annihilated) the Lexi, Essex, Midway with the sacred nerfbat of 0.5.3., Indy and Ranger was nerfed previously with 0.5.1. USN CV line deserves at least one working CV that is not tier 4. The main problem that it's going to be premium. But what else would one expect from a WG product...

 

About Saipan: I think the most important factor that's actually decides how OP the Saipan is the torpedo spread: how wide is the baseline of dropping and what is the angle convergence. If you can easily get 3/3 hits on a Colorado sized ship then it will be OP.

 

Im waiting for Saipan, although Im kinda torn between that and turpitz (kinda miss playing BBs now i have 2xTX which are meh to play in current meta). I definitely like the general idea - its actually somewhat close to what i proposed (I never said anything about 3 plane squads though)

 

There are obviously concerns about it being OP, but i think that there shouldnt be a big problem with it. It can require some small fine tuning but:

 

- Sure it has T9 planes, but it also has less planes in the air then tier 4. That does balance somehow.

- it has obviously zero burn capability, so only dot you can do is the flood. Now that isnt that easy to achieve - you need to hit the torps (depending on spread might be harder or easier), and with 3 plane squads staggering attacks can result in your squads being simply killed by AA.

- people fret over t9 torp bombers, however : Essex torp bombers tend to die a lot. DB are a lot more resistant, but i notoriously lose TB to even a fubuki when playing Essex. Losing 1 is not a big deal for essex, losing 1 is a big deal for a saipan group.

- Also remember - while you get t9 planes, the CV is t7, which means it doesnt (or does it - premiums have their own rules, but i doubt it) the 3M upgrade slot. Which means the planes will be actually be less durable. Rangers TB have ~1600 hp with 4 pt perk, Saipan will be probably around 1950-2050. 25% more durable planes are nice, but not gamebreaking imo.

 

All in all, I think it will be fun , but hard to play CV. If the torpedoes will be like US ones just with width cut in half, i guess it will be on strong side, if it will be wider or jap style, it really wont.

 

 

Edit: Also the fighters will be rather on the weak side in terms of firepower. There are 2 reasons for that if you think a bit over the whole "t9 stuff"

 

- AMMO - half the fighters = half the damage but same ammo. Those fighters will often be winning vs other squad, until suddenly they will run out of ammo. Even if we assume Saipan gets AS , and the others do not, Saipan will have real trouble actually killing stuff. If other CVs get AS they will win vs Saipans.

- Dogfighting perk - while its forgotten, its a perk that i still tend to take on US lower tier CVs. Torpedo speed doesnt affect US torps much (increase in minimal drop distance kinda evens out with drop speed). If you add 20% to other nations DPS it will make them win easily.

 

Well put, I totally agree. I wish people would stop screaming "OMG nerf this OP ship" before it has even been played.

 

It may even have a worse spread the IGN CV's with it only have the 3 planes in a squad. It makes seance with IGN have 2 less than the US TB and having a worse spread for that reason.

 

If they are a bad spread the thing will be average at best with TB being its only offensive weapon.

[XTHD]

Well put, I totally agree. I wish people would stop screaming "OMG nerf this OP ship" before it has even been played.

 

It may even have a worse spread the IGN CV's with it only have the 3 planes in a squad. It makes seance with IGN have 2 less than the US TB and having a worse spread for that reason.

 

If they are a bad spread the thing will be average at best with TB being its only offensive weapon.

 

People scream "OMG nerf this OP ship" before it has even been played because when it has been played, it is already too late, because of WG's policy of "But gaise, we don't nerf OP premiums lol! But we have a solution: we will keep it in store until the sales start dropping off, and then remove it permanently so nobody else can get it! "

 

[Gefreiter_Fritz]

Lets just wait for tomorrow, than we will propably see some videos/replays how it behaves in a match.

[Ragweek]

anyone found these vids yet?

[Xevious_Red]

Encountered one today. Don't have replays enabled sorry, so no vids.

 

The one I met had a full captain, so it had 4 fighters per squad. 

The fighters are crazy fast at that tier (I was in a kirov, so was bricking it slightly since I'm a tasty target), and seemed pretty good at demolishing planes. It was only facing a strike ranger, and a ryujo so no real competition on the air battle.

 

The torp bombers are equally fast, and really resilient. This particular captain just left his circling a new Mexico (not too shabby AA) at 2km taking no real casualties. Think he lost 1 plane from the 3 squads, he definitely could take his time if he wanted.

The drops however were pretty wide from what I could see, so it looks like it uses the IJN drop, since he went after this particular new Mexico 3 or 4 times (with all 3 waves) and it was still over half strength when the game ended.

Having looked the player up, his stats (before they were hidden) were a little low, so don't know if the repeated missed drops are due to the saipan or the captain

[Trigger_Happy_Dad]

 

 

Supertesters are testing the Saipan in-game currently (imgur.com)

 

[–]godzilla5549Hatsuduki best duki (godzilla5549@NA)[S] 11 Punkte vor 21 Stunden 

Loadout is 2/3/0 with 3 planes per squad

 

 

 https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/4bujop/supertesters_are_testing_the_saipan_ingame/

[Hi_im_Biff]

I met a Saipan ingame.

So if you are interested here is the replay.

http://wowreplays.com/Replay/2805

 

 

[Ragweek]

So much for the OP Saipan, In this video the Saipan tried to snipe a Ranger but with the lack of DB's could not get dot's.

 

The Ranger did not have the same trouble. 

 

Seems balanced to me.Some of his planes did get shot down by the rangers aa too. 

 

 

 

 

[XTHD]

So much for the OP Saipan, In this video the Saipan tried to snipe a Ranger but with the lack of DB's could not get dot's.

 

The Ranger did not have the same trouble. 

 

Seems balanced to me.Some of his planes did get shot down by the rangers aa too. 

 

 

You mean that a Saipan with a noob captain (no air supremacy) that [edited]up his drop and still gets the ranger down to 3k HP is totally fine, while getting sniped by a strike Ranger at the same time, even though his fighters are available. K.

[Ragweek]

Well if you call a cv player as a noob just because he has not got the 5 point skill, then he got raped by noob then with out the skill.

 

I guess you missed that his fighters where busy kill what they could ( there is on 3 planes in a squad. That may of had an effect.

 

It realy F**ks me off when people call people noobs for no reason apart form that they think their better . Some people play for fun and this cv gives a whole new flavour to the US line.

 

 

As for his drop, if you pay close attention, each squad drop 3 torps. He hit with 2 out of the 3 in each squad. Not a disastrous by any stretch  

 

As far as im concerned it will be a welcomed addition coming from a causal part time player.

 

[Ton0kki]

Well if you call a cv player as a noob just because he has not got the 5 point skill, then he got raped by noob then with out the skill.

 

I guess you missed that his fighters where busy kill what they could ( there is on 3 planes in a squad. That may of had an effect.

 

It realy F**ks me off when people call people noobs for no reason apart form that they think their better . Some people play for fun and this cv gives a whole new flavour to the US line.

 

 

As for his drop, if you pay close attention, each squad drop 3 torps. He hit with 2 out of the 3 in each squad. Not a disastrous by any stretch  

 

As far as im concerned it will be a welcomed addition coming from a causal part time player.

 

 

That drop from Saipan player wasn't very good. Of course even the best players sometimes mess up with their drops but it does seem that Saipan torpedo spread is identical to IJN one. I play IJN carriers and I know that it's quite easy to hit enemy carriers with 3/4 torpedoes (and entirely possible to hit all 4). With decent drop Saipan 1-shots Hiryus and Rangers. Compined with superior speed and durability of planes, this certainly doesn't seem like "a welcomed addition" to me.

 

The Saipan player in the video didn't use strafe either. That's the way to go with fighters.

 

I hope Saipan turns out to be weaker than it seems. Otherwise we have to deal with OP tier 7 CV forever.

[RamirezKurita]

Well if you call a cv player as a noob just because he has not got the 5 point skill, then he got raped by noob then with out the skill.

 

I guess you missed that his fighters where busy kill what they could ( there is on 3 planes in a squad. That may of had an effect.

 

It realy F**ks me off when people call people noobs for no reason apart form that they think their better . Some people play for fun and this cv gives a whole new flavour to the US line.

 

 

As for his drop, if you pay close attention, each squad drop 3 torps. He hit with 2 out of the 3 in each squad. Not a disastrous by any stretch  

 

As far as im concerned it will be a welcomed addition coming from a causal part time player.

 

 

He wasn't talking about the player, he was talking about the captain they had in the ship. Considering how the Saipan is a premium, the standard practice would be to bring out your main CV captains which will normally have at least 15 points and the Air Supremacy skill as you don't need to retrain them.

 

Either way, the Saipan player was pretty terrible in the video, he didn't take advantage of the DoT on his torp bombers as well as having his fighters in completely the wrong locations and using his repair at the wrong time. If he had been sensible and intercepted the Ranger's bombers much earlier, as well as if he had a proper captain in his carrier (as +1 fighter per squadron is really strong on the Saipan), he probably would have survived quite handily.