New tier 7 premium carrier Saipan (5.14)

[Darth_Glorious]

Cost : 9500 gold

5 squads, 3 planes per squad

2 fighter squads + 3 torpedo bomber squads

Fighter : Vought F4U-4 (current top fighter of tier 9 Essex)

Torpedo bomber : Douglas AD1 (old stock torpedo bomber of  tier 10 Midway)

 

 

[Trigger_Happy_Dad]

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/47002-premium-saipan/

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/46952-hms-campbeltown-uss-saipan/

 

...

[gizaman]

Suddenly the Cleveland, Atlanta and MK seem much more appealing. The amount of tier 7 cv will go up fast and plenty of planes to shoot down.

Not sure if the Atlanta or Mikhail is best...for getting most cv encounters.

[Darth_Glorious]

 

Some comparisons between Saipan and other tier 7 CVs :

 

Fighters:
HP: 5730 (Saipan)(3) <=> 5640 (Hiryuu)(4) <=> 9360 (Ranger)(6)
Speed: 178 (Saipan) <=> 162 (Hiryuu) <=> 166 (Ranger)
Damage per second : 210 (Saipan) <=> 232 (Hiryuu) <=> 336 (Ranger)

Torpedo Bombers :
HP: 5820 (Saipan)(3) <=> 4840 (Hiryuu)(4) <=> 9060 (Ranger)(6)
Speed with torps : 155 (Saipan) <=> 129 (Hiryuu) <=> 133 (Ranger)

Speed without torps : 194 (Saipan) <=> 161 (Hiryuu) <=> 166 (Ranger)

With Air superiority perk :
Fighter squad HP: 7640 (Saipan)(4) <=> 7050 (Hiryuu)(5) <=> 10920 (Ranger)(7)

 

[D7v]

Looks delicious for a decicated CV user

[Tyrendian89]

and both at least somewhat balanced at first glance, and unique with that weird layout. Those fighter squadrons look like a very equal 1v1 against Hiryu fighters, and on the strike front Saipan has way better direct damage but Hiryu (assuming 2/2/2) has way better DoT from DBs setting fires after repairs. Plus more reserves for Hiryu. And while Saipan looks to beat 1/1/1 Ranger, and has the fighters to annoy 0/1/3 Ranger, 2/0/2 Ranger can potentially run her out of reserves rather quickly. Probably advantage Saipan, but Ranger can specialise better and is more forgiving to play. Not too bad overall I would say as a first impression.

[SBS]

Hmm, not sure if I like the 3 plane limit per squadron. Makes them really squishy for against any amount of AA. Also, fighters are very reduced in effectiveness as their DPS is lowered a lot due to the lower fighter count, and if one squadron takes a loss, then that is a loss of 1/3 of it's firepower.

Also, does it only have 29 bombers and 19 fighters? That isn't a lot. That is tier 6 hangar space.

 

I am very interested, just not sure about the effectiveness untill I have tried it.

[NoirLotus]

Some comparisons between Saipan and other tier 7 CVs :

 

Fighters:
HP: 5730 (Saipan)(3) <=> 5640 (Hiryuu)(4) <=> 9360 (Ranger)(6)
Speed: 178 (Saipan) <=> 162 (Hiryuu) <=> 166 (Ranger)
Damage per second : 210 (Saipan) <=> 232 (Hiryuu) <=> 336 (Ranger)

Torpedo Bombers :
HP: 5820 (Saipan)(3) <=> 4840 (Hiryuu)(4) <=> 9060 (Ranger)(6)
Speed with torps : 155 (Saipan) <=> 129 (Hiryuu) <=> 133 (Ranger)
Speed without torps : 194 (Saipan) <=> 161 (Hiryuu) <=> 166 (Ranger)

With Air superiority perk :
Fighter squad HP: 7640 (Saipan)(4) <=> 7050 (Hiryuu)(5) <=> 10920 (Ranger)(7)

 

Come on !! How many players have Air Superiority on a T7 CV ??

 

You perfectly know that only Saipans will have Air Superiority so :

 

Fighter squad HP: 7640 (Saipan)(4) <=> 5640 (Hiryuu)(4) <=> 9360 (Ranger)(6)

Speed: 178 (Saipan) <=> 162 (Hiryuu) <=> 166 (Ranger)
Damage per second : 308 (Saipan) <=> 232 (Hiryuu) <=> 336 (Ranger)

 

With Air Superiority, Saipan fighters have the upper hand vs Ranger ones, and their speed advantage let them choose if they engage the combat or not. And it's not even worth doing the math for Hiryu ...

[indycar]

its not new... saipan was between indy (was t5) and ranger (t7) before they removed it from the game

[julmatar]

i must get this ship..

 

We finally gets more torpedos squads than 1 it's kinda cheat that shokaku got 2-2-2 when same mod us gets only damage planes not even 1 squad fitghter it should be  1-1-2 not 0-1-3 also when we think about figther setup 2-0-2 vs 3-1-2 again shokaku get torpedos it' not fair why it's not like 3-0-3  and even with standards setups shokaku get more.... lexington was way more balance in patch 2-1-1 you actually can fight against shokaku... and this setups almost same in hiryu...

 

Saipan could make balance when we can get more than 1 torpedos squads why we cant choose planes loadout with some skill points. For example each captain skill gives 10 points and so max is 190points and you have to use points to get different loadouts ofc you should not get more planes squads it would be op. but like this lvl 1 captan have only standard setup what he can play then like 10lvl captain can choose other loadout and 15lvl would get like 1-1-2 or 2-1-1 or even 1-2-1 setups i think that would make huge balance and more fun for cv fights.

 

Because there would be more setups where choose at, i think other cv players can just play like now. Like if you see 2bomb and 1 torps not more you know what setup lexington plays at, so if there is more variations each side cvs it would more fun and harder to dominate fights with 1 cv. that's my opinion

anyway gonna buy saipan and hope it will bring more balance at fights also hope it would cost quite a lot so we dont see everybody to buy it would be better that players who play cv buys more so they dont ruin that bad others games... sory bit off topic but anyways saipan would be  good only what i noticed is why saipan is t7 but got so mutch less planes in hangar than other t7's

 

[SBS]

The Lexingtons 2-0-2 is actually quite good. Those bombers carry 1000 pound bombs, and they do a massive amount of damage. Th only disadvantage is that you can not put fire to someone and then flood them after they put out the fire. 

Not that you can't just start 1 fire and then another fire later after they put the first one out.

[julmatar]

The Lexingtons 2-0-2 is actually quite good. Those bombers carry 1000 pound bombs, and they do a massive amount of damage. Th only disadvantage is that you can not put fire to someone and then flood them after they put out the fire. 

Not that you can't just start 1 fire and then another fire later after they put the first one out.

 

well true but imo torpedos are the thing you help you team so if you get even 1 torpedo squad you can do lot's dmg at 1 strike when 2bombs squads is like 20k and it's very rare hit 10k per squad ok he will burn but he wont die vs you can use torpedos you hit easily 4-5 torp to bb so it's about 3xk-4xk dmg after that you make him fire and he will burn to dead...

[Gefreiter_Fritz]

 

Come on !! How many players have Air Superiority on a T7 CV ??

 

You perfectly know that only Saipans will have Air Superiority so :

 

Fighter squad HP: 7640 (Saipan)(4) <=> 5640 (Hiryuu)(4) <=> 9360 (Ranger)(6)

Speed: 178 (Saipan) <=> 162 (Hiryuu) <=> 166 (Ranger)
Damage per second : 308 (Saipan) <=> 232 (Hiryuu) <=> 336 (Ranger)

 

With Air Superiority, Saipan fighters have the upper hand vs Ranger ones, and their speed advantage let them choose if they engage the combat or not. And it's not even worth doing the math for Hiryu ...

 

Two things:

Counting "HP" of flyers is not usefull, cause they dont loose them they get destroyed after rolling against "HP"/dmg. So the harder fighters are much better, cause they are destroyed more seldom. And a T5 captains will be quiet common, as it is a prem CV.

 

i must get this ship..

 

We finally gets more torpedos squads than 1 it's kinda cheat that shokaku got 2-2-2 when same mod us gets only damage planes not even 1 squad fitghter it should be  1-1-2 not 0-1-3 also when we think about figther setup 2-0-2 vs 3-1-2 again shokaku get torpedos it' not fair why it's not like 3-0-3  and even with standards setups shokaku get more.... lexington was way more balance in patch 2-1-1 you actually can fight against shokaku... and this setups almost same in hiryu...

 

Saipan could make balance when we can get more than 1 torpedos squads why we cant choose planes loadout with some skill points. For example each captain skill gives 10 points and so max is 190points and you have to use points to get different loadouts ofc you should not get more planes squads it would be op. but like this lvl 1 captan have only standard setup what he can play then like 10lvl captain can choose other loadout and 15lvl would get like 1-1-2 or 2-1-1 or even 1-2-1 setups i think that would make huge balance and more fun for cv fights.

 

Because there would be more setups where choose at, i think other cv players can just play like now. Like if you see 2bomb and 1 torps not more you know what setup lexington plays at, so if there is more variations each side cvs it would more fun and harder to dominate fights with 1 cv. that's my opinion

 

anyway gonna buy saipan and hope it will bring more balance at fights also hope it would cost quite a lot so we dont see everybody to buy it would be better that players who play cv buys more so they dont ruin that bad others games... sory bit off topic but anyways saipan would be  good only what i noticed is why saipan is t7 but got so mutch less planes in hangar than other t7's

 

 

I would really like to have a 1-1-2 setup at Ranger/Lexi. That would be much more fun, I think.

 

For the Saipan, I would vote vor a 2-2-1 setup with 1 Squad skyraider DBs with 1000lbs bombs.

[SBS]

You can do the same think with 2 bombers. 1 squad to set him on fire, usually start 2 fires on BB, then after he puts it out then you start another fire with second squadron.

Also, those 1000 pound bombs mess up DD a lot. Something that is needed at higher tiers.

[julmatar]

You can do the same think with 2 bombers. 1 squad to set him on fire, usually start 2 fires on BB, then after he puts it out then you start another fire with second squadron.

Also, those 1000 pound bombs mess up DD a lot. Something that is needed at higher tiers.

 

i dont say 2-0-2 is bad but 2-1-1 was better imo

[NoirLotus]

anyway gonna buy saipan and hope it will bring more balance at fights also hope it would cost quite a lot so we dont see everybody to buy it would be better that players who play cv buys more so they dont ruin that bad others games... sory bit off topic but anyways saipan would be  good only what i noticed is why saipan is t7 but got so mutch less planes in hangar than other t7's

 

 

Are you crazy ?? This thing as presented is the most imbalanced ship I ever saw in WoWS !!

 

His TB are too fast to enemy fighters, and with their HP and speed, they are not afraid of AAA. With Air Superiority, a single squad of 3 fighters can fight a Ranger fighter squad of 6 with 50% win chance, and its fighters have also speed advantage so they can choose if they fight or not.

 

And do I have to remember people here what happened when CV had 3 or more TB squads ?

 

 

 

Two things:

Counting "HP" of flyers is not usefull, cause they dont loose them they get destroyed after rolling against "HP"/dmg. So the harder fighters are much better, cause they are destroyed more seldom.

 

Yeah, and I did the math HP/dmg, and can tell you that with Air Superiority, Saipan fighters are on par with Ranger ones.

[fnord_disc]

Having 15(+2) planes when the enemy at the same tier has 24(+4) is a big problem and the reserves are small. 48 planes, guys. 48.

 

It's an okay ship if you know what you're doing, but an average player will perform much worse in this ship than in a Hiryuu or a Ranger.

 

I would like to see you perform consistently better in this ship than in a Hiryuu and I'm pretty sure you won't.

[anonym_gxxGX7KaxQVa]

wow hold the phone..!

if they are tier 9 planes; does that mean the Dogfight expert skill work against them ?? (or is it tied to the CV that launched the planes, which remains teir 7) ??

[julmatar]

 

Are you crazy ?? This thing as presented is the most imbalanced ship I ever saw in WoWS !!

 

His TB are too fast to enemy fighters, and with their HP and speed, they are not afraid of AAA. With Air Superiority, a single squad of 3 fighters can fight a Ranger fighter squad of 6 with 50% win chance, and its fighters have also speed advantage so they can choose if they fight or not.

 

And do I have to remember people here what happened when CV had 3 or more TB squads ?

 

yea i know what saipan was but now it looking different loadouts and different tier so i think it can be more balanced this time

[gr0pah]

And a T5 captains will be quiet common, as it is a prem CV.

You didn't get his point; he meant that comparing level 5 captains is disingenuous as only the Saipan will be level 5. So the comparison should be between level 4 captains on Hiryu/Ranger, and level 5 for Saipan.

[StringWitch]

deleted

[NoirLotus]

Having 15(+2) planes when the enemy at the same tier has 24(+4) is a big problem and the reserves are small. 48 planes, guys. 48.

 

It's an okay ship if you know what you're doing, but an average player will perform much worse in this ship than in a Hiryuu or a Ranger.

 

I would like to see you perform consistently better in this ship than in a Hiryuu and I'm pretty sure you won't.

 

And how are you going to lose planes ?

 

Saipan TB have HPs and speed of a T9 CV, so you don"t really fear AAA, and enemy fighters can only catch them if they are carrying a torp (otherwise they are 30 knots faster than any fighter of a T7 CV).

 

Saipan fighteres are the greatest speed, DPS and HP at T7 (they are the fighters of ESSEX !!). Even with 3 per squad, they shred Hiryu's fighters in pieces and just need Air superiority to be on par with Ranger. Plus they choose the terms of engagement as they are faster.

[SBS]

The thing that seems to be good about Saipan are the planes speed and the health of the TB squadrons planes. They can probably get in and out without being affected too much by AA, but as they only have 3 planes and it can not be incriesed by captain skill and we do not know how the torpedo spread is, we can't say too much. 

 

The Saipans can't engage a Hiryu or Ranger 1 on 1, and most rangers with fighters probably went fighrer loudout and Hiryu allways has at least 2 fighter squadrons, so the Saipan fighters are not that good.

 

Really, it is the speed of the planes that is the Saipans only advantage. Also, as I said earlier, if they loose one TB or fighter, they loose 1/3 of their power.

 

Edit:

wow hold the phone..!

if they are tier 9 planes; does that mean the Dogfight expert skill work against them ?? (or is it tied to the CV that launched the planes, which remains teir 7) ??

 

I think it only takes the plane tier in to account and not CV. So yes, it should work really well if those are tier 9 planes.

[NoirLotus]

The fighters don't see to be much, they DPS is the worst of all the planes and they barely got more HP than pr plane than the Hiryu ones.

The thing of the matter is, a full Saipan fighter squadron can put out 630 average DPS, a full Hiryu squadron 928 DPS and a full Ranger squadron an amazing 2016 DPS.

The combined health of a Saipan fighter squadron is only 17190 HP, for a hiryu 22560 HP and for a Ranger 56160 HP.

These numbers are without skills or modifications ofcourse.

 

 

Man the numbers given above are already for a full squadron ...

[SBS]

 

Man the numbers given above are already for a full squadron ...

 

Weren't they per plane? Might have had a brain fart then.