PROPOSAL: Full German Capital Ships Line (BB/BC)

[VC381]

 

Apart from the mediocre performance of real-life British shells, that will not be a factor in the game, there are other factors that need to be considered before deeming the 30.5 cm gun at the same level of the foreign guns.

 

Although its performance against armor (at least around 10'000 m) was similar to the British 13.5-inch and the American 14-inch gun, its range was slightly smaller (even compared to the American gun, although the latter's maximum elevation was smaller, 15° against 16°), and the advantage in terms of weight of shell and bursting charge is on course sitting on the side of the British and American guns. Their RoF was rather high, though.

So, all in all, how will they be? If the historical route is followed, they probably should have flat firing arcs, have a relatively small reload time, similar penetration power to their Tier 5 counterparts but smaller damage to compensate.

 

As for the difference between the Kaiser and the König, remember that the former may have the same ten guns as the latter, but the disposition is much more awkward, so that for all practical purposes it has only an eight gun broadside.

 

 

 

Depends how she's implemented. The arcs will be limited but she could fire across the deck, ultimately might not be that much worse than Wyoming that has some horrible arcs on at least two turrets. The maximum range I doubt will be a factor since the "effective ranges" we have in game tend to be significantly shorter than the actual maximum ranges of the weapons. I would say it would be in keeping with the German national trait that was historically to have smaller caliber guns on their ships, which is likely to be carried into the game.

 

I agree with the rest, that we're likely to see ships that are defined by fast firing guns with flat arcs and good penetration ability but low-ish damage.

 

As for AA, someone started a whole other thread for that.

[Historynerd]

 

Depends how she's implemented. The arcs will be limited but she could fire across the deck, ultimately might not be that much worse than Wyoming that has some horrible arcs on at least two turrets. The maximum range I doubt will be a factor since the "effective ranges" we have in game tend to be significantly shorter than the actual maximum ranges of the weapons. I would say it would be in keeping with the German national trait that was historically to have smaller caliber guns on their ships, which is likely to be carried into the game.

 

I agree with the rest, that we're likely to see ships that are defined by fast firing guns with flat arcs and good penetration ability but low-ish damage.

 

As for AA, someone started a whole other thread for that.

 

On Wyoming the amidships turret have limited arcs, but at least they're all on the centerline; it wouldn't be the case on the Kaiser. It would be almost as it is now on the Kawachi, with the turrets on the opposite side of the one you're firing with.

[Comrad_StaIin]

they could slap some 88s and 20mms on the low tier german BBs to buff them a little

 

or those things 

 

 

 

 

 

[506_Mephisto]

The Zig-zag turrets of Kaiser have some serious weaknesses, they can all fire on a broadside though. First of all the fireing arc is rather limited. and Secondly  the said turret has to rotate 270 degree. Not so much a problem when you  are in a naval engagement lasting for several hours, but in PC games like WoWS it is a large one. Now considering the fact, that  showing your broadside is very dangerous, I believe most players will not really make use of one of the side turret.

[Historynerd]

The Zig-zag turrets of Kaiser have some serious weaknesses, they can all fire on a broadside though. First of all the fireing arc is rather limited. and Secondly  the said turret has to rotate 270 degree. Not so much a problem when you  are in a naval engagement lasting for several hours, but in PC games like WoWS it is a large one. Now considering the fact, that  showing your broadside is very dangerous, I believe most players will not really make use of one of the side turret.

 

Technically, they could all fire in broadside, but I doubt they might have done it in practice; it could have meant risking to damage the superstructure.

 

Also, NavWeaps says the following:

The Kaiser class were the first German battleships to have superfiring turrets.  This allowed them to have one less turret than previous classes (5 vs. 6) yet still be able to fire the same number of guns on the broadside.  The König class had all main guns on the centerline, giving them a heavier broadside than earlier ships.

 

The preceding class of ships, the Helgoland, had an eight-gun broadside.

This suggests that for practical purposes the above-mentioned was considered, disregarding the potential use of the other wing turret.

 

[VC381]

 

Technically, they could all fire in broadside, but I doubt they might have done it in practice; it could have meant risking to damage the superstructure.

 

Yeah, the turret placement is quite similar to HMS Invincible in that the turrets would not only have to fire across the deck but also quite close past each-other. Invincible also had the theoretical ability for an 8-gun broadside but was not used because of danger of self-inflicted damage and shock blast to the other turret crew. So I concede that in game Kaiser would probably have an 8-gun broadside and would therefore make more sense at Tier 4. Ships like Moltke, Seydlitz and the Indefatigable class however were able to get all guns on a broadside much more easily as the offset turrets were more widely spaced and the surrounding superstructure better angled to give them room to do so.

[FrankvC_Jr]

Love ur work dude!!! Greetings from spain keep this up!!

My top ships are:

Nassau

Sharn

Bismarck

I will need to buy slots i want all 3!!

Btw WG will give the Hs the 128mm DP guns as heavy AA?? I hope it so much

[Todger_Fairmile]

Scharnhorst has already been spotted in the game being tested as a tier 7 ship.

[1MajorKoenig]

Love ur work dude!!! Greetings from spain keep this up!!

My top ships are:

Nassau

Sharn

Bismarck

I will need to buy slots i want all 3!!

Btw WG will give the Hs the 128mm DP guns as heavy AA?? I hope it so much

 

Muchas gracias mate! Your kind words are really appreciated!

 

The Scharnhorst is already being tested??? Did you spot her??

[Todger_Fairmile]

 

Muchas gracias mate! Your kind words are really appreciated!

 

The Scharnhorst is already being tested??? Did you spot her??

 

No, I didn't spot her. Someone else did and reported it in another thread over a week ago. I think it was on NA forum. Unfortunately I visit NA, EU, and Asia so I don't remember which one, but I believe NA.

Found it.

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/75120-testing-german-bbs

[Deamon93]

Apparently someone spotted her but there is no screen or any other kind of proof. Besides if there were a test she would have shown up in EU as well.

[1MajorKoenig]

Apparently someone spotted her but there is no screen or any other kind of proof. Besides if there were a test she would have shown up in EU as well.

 

Possibly a good idea to have her tested beforehand considering her unique characteristics and very high attention.

 

Easily one of the most anticipated ships. Anyone got a screenshot or impression how she is making out at T7? 

[Unintentional_submarine]

I would like to point out that the spotter didn't respond to the questions regarding Shchors. I wouldn't put much stock in this claim until such a time as others experience the same thing (hopefully with screenshots and/or replays. Besides, I would think that chat would light up with comments if a Scharnhorst was to appear. I remember how it was with Bismarck and Tirpitz last year.

[Deamon93]

 

Possibly a good idea to have her tested beforehand considering her unique characteristics and very high attention.

 

Easily one of the most anticipated ships. Anyone got a screenshot or impression how she is making out at T7? 

 

No screens, replays or any other kind of proof was shown. I wouldn't put too much faith in a single person claiming: if there were a test more than a single person would have seen her by now

[Historynerd]

I would like to point out that the spotter didn't respond to the questions regarding Shchors. I wouldn't put much stock in this claim until such a time as others experience the same thing (hopefully with screenshots and/or replays. Besides, I would think that chat would light up with comments if a Scharnhorst was to appear. I remember how it was with Bismarck and Tirpitz last year.

 

I'd say!

I know what would be my reaction if I realized one of them were in the match:

 

 

(The one on the right... but the one on the left would be possible, if it were on the enemy's team!  )

 

[Mucker]

WG said they wanted to release 2-3 German premium ships this year, and almost half of the years is already gone. 

I still don't rule out a German premium to be released for the Jutland centenary, but Scharnhorst would be a rather odd pick for that occasion,

[1MajorKoenig]

WG said they wanted to release 2-3 German premium ships this year, and almost half of the years is already gone. 

I still don't rule out a German premium to be released for the Jutland centenary, but Scharnhorst would be a rather odd pick for that occasion,

 

One of the premium is believed to be the heavy cruiser Deutschland/or Graf Spee.

 

Other than that WG was mentioning a cruiser and a battleship. I really hope they Release a WW1 Style battleship/battlecruiser for The 100 year Jutland ! 

[thestaggy]

Other than that WG was mentioning a cruiser and a battleship. I really hope they Release a WW1 Style battleship/battlecruiser for The 100 year Jutland ! 

 

That would be awesome if they released one of the battlecruisers, preferably Lutzow.

[Comrad_StaIin]

 

shematics of the BBS

 

 

 

Tier VIII

 

 

[1MajorKoenig]

Nice line up!

According to the armored patrol The German Guns and Engines have been datamined clearly identifying Scharnhorst.

 

EDIT: interesting speculation: The guns for Scharnhorst arme named, potentially indicating a Premium Ship . And The 30.5 L/50 are named Drh Lc11 which was the version used on the König class battleships.

[506_Mephisto]

But if Scharnhorst is a Premium, which is odd, since she is the lead ship of her class, so Gneisenau would be fitting better, what is going to be the Tier 7? L20 A or Ersatz-Yorck? (L20 A would be hilarious. Fast, well armored against guns, extremely powerful guns, but with a rather weak torpedo protection,  enormous size, and a ridiculously slow turret traverse.)

[Trainspite]

But if Scharnhorst is a Premium, which is odd, since she is the lead ship of her class, so Gneisenau would be fitting better, what is going to be the Tier 7? L20 A or Ersatz-Yorck? (L20 A would be hilarious. Fast, well armored against guns, extremely powerful guns, but with a rather weak torpedo protection,  enormous size, and a ridiculously slow turret traverse.)

 

One of the names Scharnhorst and Gneisenau has to be used for the WW1 armoured Cruiser class as well, so if Scharnhorst is the tech tree ship at tier 7 for the German BB line, then Gneisenau should be the armoured Cruiser. This leaves Ersatz Yorck for a potential BC line, and L20A as premium. 

If need be then Scharnhorst and L20A could be swapped.

[1MajorKoenig]

But if Scharnhorst is a Premium, which is odd, since she is the lead ship of her class, so Gneisenau would be fitting better, what is going to be the Tier 7? L20 A or Ersatz-Yorck? (L20 A would be hilarious. Fast, well armored against guns, extremely powerful guns, but with a rather weak torpedo protection,  enormous size, and a ridiculously slow turret traverse.)

 

I also find it kinda odd to have Scharnhorst als Premium. Not sure if WG really does it but the naming convention of her guns Look like Emden & Tirpitz. 

 

I mean, everyone would buy her for sure and she is kind of special with her smaller guns.

 

Ersatz Yorck would be awesome in The tree at T7 though :-)

[VC381]

Yeah, I agree an uncompleted post-war battlecruiser would be a good compromise as a Tier 7 that is closer to "normal" for what a BB is in game. WG might be too scared to try and balance Scharnhorst with her 11" guns so they might push her to premium as a test due to her uniqueness.

[Mucker]

 

I also find it kinda odd to have Scharnhorst als Premium. Not sure if WG really does it but the naming convention of her guns Look like Emden & Tirpitz. 

 

I mean, everyone would buy her for sure and she is kind of special with her smaller guns.

 

Ersatz Yorck would be awesome in The tree at T7 though :-)

 

Based on the leaked data, we can extract the following: 

Scharnhorst has two engine entries, one 125000 PS (stock) and one 160000 PS (elite). But premiums do not have upgrade options.

There is an entry which suggests the 380 mm L/52 on tier 7, which would represent the planned main battery swap.

There are also "non-ship-specific" entries of these 125000 and 160000 PS engines on tier 7.

But OTOH, there is no "non-ship-specific" entry of the 283 mm L/54, which suggests these guns will not appear in the tech tree.

 

My conclusion based on this:

Regular tech tree will be Gneisenau with 6 x 380 mm and 2 engine options (stock & elite)

Scharnhorst will be premium with 9 x 283 mmm but WG has not yet figured it out balance wise if it should get stock or elite engine.