Lack of carriers?

[VC381]

Firstly, are carriers capped at max. 2 per team? I was wondering if there's a cap or if I don't see more because they aren't popular.

 

Secondly, why are they so unpopular (especially at high tier)? I mean, they have a very specific playstyle personally I don't care for them but I would imagine others have different opinions. Are they really that weak at the moment and if so why?

[OVanBruce]

yes, there is a cap at max 2 carriers per team.

 

Carriers aren't really that much popular due to various reasons.

 

- Most people find carrier gameplay boring

- The skill slope is quite harsh after tier VI, it gets worse at tiers IX and X where you definetly need to have learnt some basics and most people can't learn those.

[VC381]

I wouldn't say CV play is boring, quite the opposite. I don't like it because I can't handle the amount of multi-tasking, micro-managing and map awareness you need! Also I don't like it because the ships in this game look so good it's a shame to not be able to see them up close. But I'm surprised you say most people find it "boring".

 

I wonder, if there was no cap would it be better? Then the responsibility of being a good CV doesn't fall on 1 or 2 people and CV players can learn easier?

[Adrian1914]

  I think the problem with carriers right now is that they are just not fun and not rewarding to play. Let me explain what I mean:

  WG made a lot of attempts to make their impact on a game less than what it was @ launch, where a CV could absolutely dominate a game, if the player knew what he was doing. One of those attempts to fix them was to increase the servicing time of their aircraft and at the moment a carrier can make an attack on a ship or attack planes once every 3-4 minutes (depending on the particular CVs servicing times as well as how far away he is from the action).
  Another factor was that torpedoes got nerfed in speed and in damage if I am not mistaking, and when they removed the pure strike loadouts on the IJN CVs it directly affected their potential damage they could deal in a game. Another thing as a result of this - let's say you could be spotting with your fighters the enemy DDs the whole game, but if your team is erm... incompetent.., then you can't do much to compensate that with all those nerfs that they did, unless you are very very skilled and have some luck with RNG. That recent buff to the US strike loadouts did sort of brought back the potential for a high damage game, but I still don't think it's as what it used to be with those servicing times, especially if you lose a squad.

 

  But let's say even with all those things you still manage to do well and dish out a lot of damage and support your team in every way that you can - in the end of the battle you'd rarely finish above the top 3 players by XP, meaning that the XP as well as the credit rewards on the CVs does not in any way feel rewarding. Sure if you didn't get sniped or attacked you won't be on a credit loss due to not paying for repairs, but still - grinding on CVs for me now feel extremely slow compared to other ship classes.

[PixelMK]

-stuff-

 

I wonder, if there was no cap would it be better? Then the responsibility of being a good CV doesn't fall on 1 or 2 people and CV players can learn easier?

Thing is, 1v1 CV's or 2v2 CV fights are pretty intense themselves, especially if you are me, running a fighter setup.

Better there be a cap.. It would turn into a lot of planes on maps and pretty messed up..

Firstly, are carriers capped at max. 2 per team? I was wondering if there's a cap or if I don't see more because they aren't popular.

 

Secondly, why are they so unpopular (especially at high tier)? I mean, they have a very specific playstyle personally I don't care for them but I would imagine others have different opinions. Are they really that weak at the moment and if so why?

Thing is CV's are pretty complex, but once you get used to it it gets boring; and the guys left are either , fans of RTS,fans of airplanes on ships, or just tryhards.

And most of them are tryhards, i dont have a high tier CV, (im at tier V US) but i can only imagine how it is there. By only tasting one battle against a VI/VII team with my Bogue, my planes got obliterated, everything i believed in was destroyed,me utterly crushed by the enemy CV. 

There seems to be a skill spike somewhere..

Im about to hit it.

 

And CV's aint weak. Their idea is not weak, its more like we dont have the ability/nor the game (atleast now) to utilise that power/idea to its full extent.

[VC381]

Well, CVs did become THE capital ship in WWII and while I understand that the game needs to be balanced for each ship type I wouldn't mind seeing more of them. I like naval aviation and CVs as ships but like I said the gameplay isn't really my thing, guess others share that opinion. I guess this has been discussed before but what do the CV players think would make the gameplay more interesting?

[PixelMK]

Well, CVs did become THE capital ship in WWII and while I understand that the game needs to be balanced for each ship type I wouldn't mind seeing more of them. I like naval aviation and CVs as ships but like I said the gameplay isn't really my thing, guess others share that opinion. I guess this has been discussed before but what do the CV players think would make the gameplay more interesting?

 

Well more stuff to choose would be interesting, if you poke around carrier threads you see a ton of ideas,

including loadouts.

A overly used example is probably choosing your Dive bombers will have AP or HE shells (in the game they have AP, notice how they set fire?).

Another idea by a guy , was combat formations!

Think about it! It would be fun no?

Again by that same guy : Fuel system!

But fuel system would make it even more complicated iirc.

[GulvkluderGuld]

Thing is, 1v1 CV's or 2v2 CV fights are pretty intense themselves, especially if you are me, running a fighter setup.

Better there be a cap.. It would turn into a lot of planes on maps and pretty messed up..

Thing is CV's are pretty complex, but once you get used to it it gets boring; and the guys left are either , fans of RTS,fans of airplanes on ships, or just tryhards.

And most of them are tryhards, i dont have a high tier CV, (im at tier V US) but i can only imagine how it is there. By only tasting one battle against a VI/VII team with my Bogue, my planes got obliterated, everything i believed in was destroyed,me utterly crushed by the enemy CV. 

There seems to be a skill spike somewhere..

Im about to hit it.

 

And CV's aint weak. Their idea is not weak, its more like we dont have the ability/nor the game (atleast now) to utilise that power/idea to its full extent.

 

You forgot creditfarmer scrubs like me who makes 100k on average in the Indy (pre 5.3 as I'm currently taking a break from wows)

[lankylad11_lankylad]

there is a lack of carriers at high tiers, because WG caved into the BB whining mafia and destroyed the top three US CVs, to the extent that none fullfil the role people loved them for and ground them out to get, so barely take them out anymore.  I mean what they did to Midway and Essex would be like taking a torp launcher of Shima, or a gun turret off Montana. Give Midway and Essex their second TB back, and people will start playing these again.  simple as that.  They were not OP.  all you had to do was 1) stick together and 2) have defensive fire near you.  All we get now is a shima infestation in high tier games and that is good for everyone. no really

 

[lankylad11_lankylad]

Midway out damaged Hakuryu because lots of Hakuryus go air superiority, when every Midway captain goes Strike, so it is not a fair comparision

[Kryostorm]

They just announced on NA that Premium Tier VI Saipan is imminent so expect a lot of Carriers to appear in V-VII games soon and it may even get some of these people interested in grinding regular carriers 

[22cm]

Because this is a naval-themed FPS game,  but still an FPS,  while the carrier play is an RTS or TBS game,  so a different genre,  and with a simpler gameplay and much much worse graphic than the RTS or TBS games available on the market. So if you want to play RTS or TBS,  there are much better games out there. 

[viceadmiral123]

Ultimately, the decrease in CV players will increase the rate of said decline due to enforced mirror MM. I like CV, I am good with CV, but I don't like waiting 10 minutes or more for a game.

[Gefreiter_Fritz]

 

You forgot creditfarmer scrubs like me who makes 100k on average in the Indy (pre 5.3 as I'm currently taking a break from wows)

 

[Ton0kki]

Posted this to another topic.

 

I don't think you can blame AS loadouts for the lack of CVs. They are mildly annoying, but they are also bad. Actually, there seems to be fair amount of a CVs in mid tiers. Problem is high tiers (9-10). I think that the main reason is CV snipe. High tier carriers can sink each other so easily if they can sneak their planes to the target. Constant worry about CV snipe makes gameplay exhausting (+ succesfull early snipe is a huge win deciding factor). I take my Taiho out every now and then but Hiryu is much better for casual gameplay. 

 

 

 

[Gefreiter_Fritz]

AS loadouts are "bad" for everyone, they are no good for the owen team, they ar no good for your owen XP/creds and they are not really fun to play...

 

 

But you are right, sniping is a problem from T7 on. If you can not motivate a CA to help you, things get hard. But sniping is also very tempting, because so many CV players stand still in their spawn point and start moving when the first bombs hit their deck. For higher Ts I think the high number of squads gets a problem for many players. I for my self find 6 squads the point where its fun to play, more would be work/stressing. So nothing i would do in my free time willingly.

[Tugnut]

Midway out damaged Hakuryu because lots of Hakuryus go air superiority, when every Midway captain goes Strike, so it is not a fair comparision

 

its hard to keep the US fighters from dominating the map... and this forces IJN CV to go for more fighters.  

[ilhilh]

 

its hard to keep the US fighters from dominating the map... and this forces IJN CV to go for more fighters.  

 

It might be the logic many use but it is crap logic.

 

If they go strike you don't need loads of fighters.

If they go balanced then your balanced means 8 fighters vs 6.

If they go AS then they are stupid and you use your smaller fighter squads to tie theirs up whilst you get your balanced strike load through and onto target.  Your fighters die but who really cares if your strike planes are tearing up the enemy whilst their crappy DB force is making next to no difference to anything.

[Kenjiro_]

I wouldn't say CV play is boring, quite the opposite. I don't like it because I can't handle the amount of multi-tasking, micro-managing and map awareness you need!

 

This! Also, I cannot handle the amount of stress it brings. People who say CVs are clickers usually are not able to 'click' themselves....

[BlueMoon51]

I have wondered if there would be so way to to basically take the carrier operations off the main map in other words give them strategic targets to attack defend(thus giving the team points), there by you can make carriers more effective without impacting other types of players.

[HaganeNoKaze]

As carrier player, i don't find fun to play anymore cause:

-Not really rewarding for the efforts i have to do to play them while i just have to have some good manoeuvers and good aiming in BB to perform well (and without any stress in comparison to carriers), this is why i'm switching actually on BBs. (Less stress, more fun, more rewards... :S)

-Actually, there is too much AA efficiency, losing half of your planes is frustrating. I don't mind actually if WG would nerf the damage of my planes, but i would prefer to hit more often. (I would prefer hit 300 times with torpedoes, inflicting each 50 damage (total: 15000), than hitting with one unique torpedo with a nuclear warhead.)

-actually, US carriers are... stupid to play (i don't say they do not perform well, they are quite efficient, a bit too much !), actual DB (Dive bombers), can deal mass damage and are not really affected AA barrage or fighters in both automatic and manual drop. Plus their fighters that could dominate the skies easily... uninteresting.

-Recent patchs bring back CV sniping (Poor AA on carriers, even US ones now), this is boring. (I don't say that i'm not doing this, i have to do it to have my ship safe, but it's an idiot design).

-as @viceadmiral123 wrote, too much time to wait to have a game in carriers... 

 

@Bluemoon51 Nice idea there !

[Admiral_noodle]

Come to tier IV to VI. It's infested

 

[Adrian1914]

I have wondered if there would be so way to to basically take the carrier operations off the main map in other words give them strategic targets to attack defend(thus giving the team points), there by you can make carriers more effective without impacting other types of players.

 

  Interesting thought!

 

  I have read somewhere that WG was working on some sort of PvE objectives for game modes - like coastal batteries, escorting ships (there is actually a ship in the game files that I've seen - a US tanker, that I think is not used in any way atm, but it does exist) and attacking land objectives, but all of those are just plans for the future and no confirmation if that would even come has been given out yet officially.

[Kryostorm]

I guess one way could be if they treated enemy cv's (the same as a friendly fire AFAIK) whereby strikes from aircraft do half damage just to CV's, would take multiple strikes then making it a higher risk move, probably only for tier VII up as tiers below that are not so easy in one strike.

[Capra76]

They just announced on NA that Premium Tier VI Saipan is imminent so expect a lot of Carriers to appear in V-VII games soon and it may even get some of these people interested in grinding regular carriers

 

 

 

Great, lots of novice CV players in T6/7/8 games is really going to help.