Tier VIII blues

[Tugnut]

Well i sat down and had a look on the warships today web page and the WG page and for some reason tier8 is not going well.... I say that but I am loving the Benson but average game play stats shows i am falling short in it and all my other tier VIII.  My tier VII stats very good but for some reason suffering a little at the next tier :/ what am i doing wrong?

 

(btw before players complain about not caring about stats thats all well and good... but i use stats to see how well i am doing in ships and hopfuly fig out what i am doing wrong)

 

I think in my CV its because i am playing to safe and running 3 fighters... might be best going balanced and going for some quick good kills at the start and not try and play the survive all game strat!.

 

My Mogami not fully upgraded, only range is maybe this is the issue!! not sure on that one

 

Dirpitz well i am not really a good BB players so ummm really need get more games in and get a grip with them.

 

Lo Yang

also having trouble getting wins out of it not played it much as its very like the benson and i am grinding the benson so put more time that way.

 

Getting to the point getting a little frustrated with my tier 8 games as no matter how well or bad i play having problems securing the wins

[indycar]

tuggy u always will be bad

 

im busy irl these days but when i get some extra time we can play few more and i could steer u a bit ;)

[Kazomir]

You start meeting people in tier 10 with extremely experienced skippers (both behind the keyboard and on the ship's helm, with a lot of captain points)

 

This means, even if you are a great player, your worth to the team is not as high as if you were in say tier 5. (where even a Skipper with basic Common sense is kinda a spike in the general skill level, not that I try to disparige any tier 5 players as being poor ones, they just havent got the hang of the game yet.)

 

 

[Mayv]

I will try give some tips for the Benson (most of these will probably apply to the Lo Yang dont have it myself but from the stats they are very similar, but hydro-acoustic may change the way you play it.)

 

The Benson is a great all round DD. Both the guns and torpedoes are very usable along with good speed, stealth and the best smoke at tier 8. On the pre-match loading screen you should take a look at the enemy DDS to see what you are up against. Know which ones can be stealthier than you. The stats dont take into account captain skills or modules. Against most IJN you can aggressively push caps, You will see RU DDs long before they see you so you can chose to engage them or not.

 

Early game pick a flank/cap to go to. Keep an eye on your mini-map to ensure you arent alone. If you come across an enemy DD engage them. Point your bow towards them if they go broadside on between shots to avoid torpedoes. If the engagement isnt favourable (you take more damage than them, they have more support) smoke and get out, DDs are best when alive in the late game.

 

Against BBs you will want to use your torpedoes mainly. If you flood a BB and you are mostlt safe from CAs other DDs or can drop smoke. Wait until they repair the flooding and start shooting at them with hopes of starting a fire or two.

 

Against CAs you should use AP against broadsides at close ranges or is they are poorly armoured like the Pensacola and Admiral Hipper. Use HE if they are angled or are a good distance out. 

 

Try to contest any cap that isnt well defended as the game goes on. In the late game your speed will help cap and mop up HP stragglers.

 

If you have any replays I could try and give you some more advice. I can also put up some of my own if you want.

[Aotearas]

In the high tiers, ships grow more and more lethal to the point were a single mistake can end in a cascade of debilitating blows that will ultimately herd you into death.

 

Pushed a flag too aggressively, get isolated from the majority of your team, get focused, enemy battleships just waiting for you to turn and show a broadside and the only way is forward into the enemies' teeth or risk getting blown apart instantly.

Above all else, positioning and map awareness are the two skills that utterly dominate the necessities of skills needed to succeed. I'm already finding that out in t7 and for one I'm grateful that I'll get my bad habits of pushing too aggressively citadelled out of me before reaching t10 matchmaking where a single Yamato salvo or Shimakaze torpwall can end me. That's me talking about my own experience though.

 

I don't know how you play and where your faults may lie. The only thing I can say is that mistakes will be exploited mercilessly by good players and with those players steering good ships, any exploitation of such is going to hurt proportionally worse (mistakes in lower tiers get equally exploited be good players, but ships haven't yet reached such a power potential to end you in one or two salvoes, hence you tend to get away with it). All you can do is try to analyze your games and see were it started to go wrong: then backtrack from that moment and reconstruct your decision progress that led to you getting to that point. That is where you can improve.

[Tugnut]

You start meeting people in tier 10 with extremely experienced skippers (both behind the keyboard and on the ship's helm, with a lot of captain points)

 

This means, even if you are a great player, your worth to the team is not as high as if you were in say tier 5. (where even a Skipper with basic Common sense is kinda a spike in the general skill level, not that I try to disparige any tier 5 players as being poor ones, they just havent got the hang of the game yet.)

 

 

 

you may be right as when in tier 9 10 games i find i have to hang back more... in the DDs a must as the tier 10 DDs just rip though you :/  so a lot of my dmg is from long range out of sight fire in the benson ( no is this costing games due to less dmg or less vision ummmm trouble is Benson gets seen quite easy by the RJN DDs and you find your self as a DD pinata lol    CV well its a given by tier 9 and 10 they norm have the exstra plane skill     funny anouth before this post played my Shokaku as a 2 2 2 (cost me a mil creds   to think i had this load up before WGing played about with load outs so in a way paid for it twice lol ) got a 6 7 8 game in it was a easy win with lots of damage cross torp drops yum yum.

[BadGene616]

Play in division. Mixed divisions seem to work better for me.

 

Pick one ship and stick with it.

 

The major difference I see at t8+ is the range you fight at. If you're not enjoying bb game play at any tier maybe you just need to dial in a bit on your long range play?

 

If I play one ship over and over I get the timings of ranged shots much better and hit more consistently. You may find the same thing? It's not like tanks where you have to learn a while new batch of weak spots as you go up the tiers so perhaps something else?

 

Finally, the meta for maps changes by tier. I have to constantly ask myself, this worked at t4, t5, will it work in a t10 game? With the changes to dispersion at range and the general punishment you get on making a mistake, often maps require a rethink.

 

The number of times you see people going to c1 on island of fire from the north, or to the A cap on trap... Just cause they always went there before...

 

Playing with people who are far better than me has really helped me see the game differently. Perhaps worth a try?

[SethAbercromby]

Mogami is a bit of an oddball at T8 compared to the other IJN Cruisers. It doesn't start with the same 203 mm turrets you've been getting used to from T5 onward and has terrible turret traverse. This is partially founded in real life as the Mogami had a problem with the 155 mm turrets jamming before they improved the mounts. If WG were to be a bit more historically accurate with the hulls, the B hull should improve the traverse to 20-24 seconds for 180°, but as is they are a bit of a double-edged sword, offering a significantly higher rate of fire and shell density than the 203 mm, but struggling to adapt to changing targets.

 

Having a chance to meet the Zao, which boasts the same density as the 155 mm with its 203 mm turrets, better range, a very high stopping power and forward-facing torpedo mounts, the Mogami can very much feel like the underdog.

 

Edit:

And who ought to forget the Des Moines, which does everything but torpedoes and has more than double the rate of fire than the Zao and almost twice as that of Mogami's 155 mm turrets.

 

Correction:

Mogami with 5 155 mm Turrets: 15 guns at 6 rpm; 90 shells per minute

Zao with 4 203 mm turrets: 12 guns at 4.4 rpm; 52.8 shells per minute

Des Moines with 3 203 mm turrets: 9 guns at 10 rpm; 90 shells per minute

 

Zao has better density per volley, but with its rate of fire Des Moines is basically the Mogami at TX with all the problems of the 155 mm fixed. As long as she stays out of Zao's torpedo range, the latter is gonna have a very bad time, especially in the forward arc, where Des Moines keeps two thirds of its firepower at 60 rpm, while Zao loses half of its firepower at 26.4.

[Tugnut]

I will try give some tips for the Benson (most of these will probably apply to the Lo Yang dont have it myself but from the stats they are very similar, but hydro-acoustic may change the way you play it.)

 

The Benson is a great all round DD. Both the guns and torpedoes are very usable along with good speed, stealth and the best smoke at tier 8. On the pre-match loading screen you should take a look at the enemy DDS to see what you are up against. Know which ones can be stealthier than you. The stats dont take into account captain skills or modules. Against most IJN you can aggressively push caps, You will see RU DDs long before they see you so you can chose to engage them or not.

 

Early game pick a flank/cap to go to. Keep an eye on your mini-map to ensure you arent alone. If you come across an enemy DD engage them. Point your bow towards them if they go broadside on between shots to avoid torpedoes. If the engagement isnt favourable (you take more damage than them, they have more support) smoke and get out, DDs are best when alive in the late game.

 

Against BBs you will want to use your torpedoes mainly. If you flood a BB and you are mostlt safe from CAs other DDs or can drop smoke. Wait until they repair the flooding and start shooting at them with hopes of starting a fire or two.

 

Against CAs you should use AP against broadsides at close ranges or is they are poorly armoured like the Pensacola and Admiral Hipper. Use HE if they are angled or are a good distance out. 

 

Try to contest any cap that isnt well defended as the game goes on. In the late game your speed will help cap and mop up HP stragglers.

 

If you have any replays I could try and give you some more advice. I can also put up some of my own if you want.

 

DD v DD unless i am vs tier 10 and some 9s i have no problems i can avoid torps and most gun fire... but i find most of my teams lacking in support... finding that most games (maybe just bad luck a lot for me) that the enemy CV will put a lot of effort start game to spot at caps for his DD giving them a big advantage. )  i try back up other DD and also help with BB battles... few fires on the enemy BB can helps tons.. also using the Benson ability to protect caps with long range fire is great.  but not sure if i am doing some thing wrong as soo many players dieing or screaming for me to cap a cap that cant be capped by me ( 1 or 2 CA in there :/ )

 

you look at my Benson survive rate its high but in the end finding i am having to do to many things for the team      bahhh maybe its just a load of bad luck on teams.... any good youtube vids for the benson?

 

Edit BTW thanks for all the tips guys great to see the forums being helpful  

[Tugnut]

 

If you have any replays I could try and give you some more advice. I can also put up some of my own if you want.

 

missed this bit yes pls if you dont mind... will load some up tomorrow and link the replays to you.

[SethAbercromby]

 

Quick Correction on my end:

Mogami with 5 155 mm Turrets: 15 guns at 6 rpm; 90 shells per minute

Zao with 4 203 mm turrets: 12 guns at 4.4 rpm; 52.8 shells per minute

Des Moines with 3 203 mm turrets: 9 guns at 10 rpm; 90 shells per minute

 

Zao has better density per volley, but with its rate of fire Des Moines is basically the Mogami at TX with all the problems of the 155 mm fixed. As long as she stays out of Zao's torpedo range, the latter is gonna have a very bad time, especially in the forward arc, where Des Moines keeps two thirds of its firepower at 60 rpm, while Zao loses half of its firepower at 26.4.

 

[LetsRockAndRoll]

I'm having the same problems Tugnut. Tier 5/6/7 fine, jump in my Tirpitz get wrecked although doing a little better in the Atago.

I did notice that your survival rate in the Benson (73%) is more than double the average (35%). Perhaps you are playing her too passively?

Anyway, thanks for this post. I got some good tips from the replies.

 

[anonym_gCiyicUsNYGl]

 

Mogami with 5 155 mm Turrets: 15 guns at 6 rpm; 90 shells per minute

 

what's the % of mogami surviving until she can spit out 90 shells in one minute? the turrets move slower compared to turrets on a battleship and turning just a tiny bit will force her turrets to not keep up with the ship.

 

so if we assume mogami spits out 90 shells per minute in a realistic setting, that means you have to sail in a straight angle and that's one easy ticket to the bottom of the ocean

[StringWitch]

In the high tiers, ships grow more and more lethal to the point were a single mistake can end in a cascade of debilitating blows that will ultimately herd you into death.

 

Pushed a flag too aggressively, get isolated from the majority of your team, get focused, enemy battleships just waiting for you to turn and show a broadside and the only way is forward into the enemies' teeth or risk getting blown apart instantly.

Above all else, positioning and map awareness are the two skills that utterly dominate the necessities of skills needed to succeed. I'm already finding that out in t7 and for one I'm grateful that I'll get my bad habits of pushing too aggressively citadelled out of me before reaching t10 matchmaking where a single Yamato salvo or Shimakaze torpwall can end me. That's me talking about my own experience though.

 

I don't know how you play and where your faults may lie. The only thing I can say is that mistakes will be exploited mercilessly by good players and with those players steering good ships, any exploitation of such is going to hurt proportionally worse (mistakes in lower tiers get equally exploited be good players, but ships haven't yet reached such a power potential to end you in one or two salvoes, hence you tend to get away with it). All you can do is try to analyze your games and see were it started to go wrong: then backtrack from that moment and reconstruct your decision progress that led to you getting to that point. That is where you can improve.

 

About getting focused and BBs waiting for broadsides: One thing you can do to retreat in a cruiser, provided you're still quite far away, is simply face your opponent dead-on and start to reverse. I learned this from Youtuber/streamer Aerroon from one of his Atago games. According to him it's difficult for the enemy to tell whether you're moving forward or backward and aim correctly. I've only seriously used this tactic in Murmansk (encouraged by the fact she can fire with only one less gun than a full broadside directly forwards) which isn't a high tier ship, but it seems to work. Of course you can still get citted by a BB through your unangled front, but nothing seems to work every time anyway.

[Kenliero]

I think the most likely thing is that you are mixed between 2 different playstyles. In T10 matches you have to hang at back, but you shouldn't be doing that in T8 battles... Now if you play long times, you might get stuck in a "mode" and play the same style all than time, when you should change styles to different tiers. For example Tirpitz should be used as close range ship against Tier 6-8(Amagi and NC are always in advantage from ranges past 12km), while you are forced to hang at back a lot against Yamatos. using AS in Carrier definitely will hinder you. I did that mistake in lower tiers and it severely dropped my carrier stats and results. Lo Yang/Benson is great in divisions, if you rotate smokes and use TS. I do that often in T7-8.

[SethAbercromby]

 

what's the % of mogami surviving until she can spit out 90 shells in one minute? the turrets move slower compared to turrets on a battleship and turning just a tiny bit will force her turrets to not keep up with the ship.

 

so if we assume mogami spits out 90 shells per minute in a realistic setting, that means you have to sail in a straight angle and that's one easy ticket to the bottom of the ocean

 

I discussed the problems of the 155 turrets above and you are right, Mogami is not very capable of altering its angle of approach without having to wait a significant time to adjust its turrets. That is what holds her back significantly. However, being the the turret setup you are expected to spend a lot of time with through your first matches, this is not a choice.  In my opinion, being aware of the strength of being able to complete with TX CAs when it boils down to broadside to broadside trades is just as important as keeping the low traverse speed in mind. 

 

A 155 Mogami will just have to play more patiently and wait for an opportunity to bring your broadside on a target. 

[Tugnut]

I'm having the same problems Tugnut. Tier 5/6/7 fine, jump in my Tirpitz get wrecked although doing a little better in the Atago.

I did notice that your survival rate in the Benson (73%) is more than double the average (35%). Perhaps you are playing her too passively?

Anyway, thanks for this post. I got some good tips from the replies.

 

 

As i have her set up so i  can harass BB and CA from a distance and not be spot i tend to be 10.4k or more away from my prey... lobbing loads of shells at them.  If you look at my torp % at 3% i tend to use them more as a i know the DD is some where in said direction and blind fire them.   

 

Edit: on the cruisers side of things yesturday played my tier 6 German CA and we won and picked up a kraken badge to boot.  I have poo loads of free xp 140k available to spend muhahahha  might free xp my tier 8 to fully upgraded and see if that makes a big difference for me.   Need to do a lot more trials with my cv running 2 2 2   as looking at my othere cv stats they use to run at least that... i only swapped to 3 1 2 when the cv nerfed the first time happened.  And with the Dirpitz like i said need to get some BB games in more.

 

[OVanBruce]

Why aren't you joining the "Forumites" channel in game with the password "play4fun"? I've never seen you there iirc

[Tugnut]

Why aren't you joining the "Forumites" channel in game with the password "play4fun"? I've never seen you there iirc

 

play4fun   now what do you see playing for fun?  Myself is doing the best i can for me and the team.... but i find a lot of players use the "I play for fun" as an excuse for bad play!   Any ways if my team is not winning i feel i not done my best and then not having fun sorry thats just the way i am. 

[MATREKUS]

t8 is a black hole in mm brain. t6 and t7 are oftena paired, just like t9 and t10. The problem is, t8 doesnt have its pair and is more often thrown in t9 and t10 matched which are lacking players not only because of the grind but because of the expensive repairs...so in t8 ship you will more often found yourself fighting t9 and t10 ships than t7 and t8 ships....its bloody annoying I agree because t8 is the last tier whe you can previal without paying the premium month taxes to WG team....

[Sonic_157]

 

play4fun   now what do you see playing for fun?  Myself is doing the best i can for me and the team.... but i find a lot of players use the "I play for fun" as an excuse for bad play!   Any ways if my team is not winning i feel i not done my best and then not having fun sorry thats just the way i am. 

 

 

Ehm... You do understand that "play4fun" is just the password, right?

 

You have to give a password to enter the channel, it doesn't mean that we play to lose!

 

 

[xeransa]

Yeah I feel the same way about tier 8 starting to struggle with it as others have said at tier 8 you come up against those players who have played thousands of games so are way more experienced and in more powerful ships. In a tier 8 CA you are a massive target to any of the tier 8 - 10 BBs and with the AFT nerf my poor little Mogami has to get even closer to them...

[True_Winterfeld]

I can recommend to watch Flamu play. You can find him on YT. He is aggressiv but does it very smart. I recently reached Tier 8 on all my ships lines that I play and I also struggle a little bit with my cruiser gameplay at high tier. No problems with BBs or gun DDs. So far I can say I have to improve my map awareness and pick my fights better.

 

I found most of Tier 8+ players to passive because they "fear" the cost but thats for me like "Look at me, I have a Ferrari now! But I really cant afford the maintenance and so I drive it very carefully around the block and hope nothing happens". But if you fear the costs you will never get better because you do not test your ship and your abbilities and so you cant improve. That combind with not enough experiance are the roots for some boring and weak gameplay. Max range snipping for example. No wonder most players find Tier 8 not entertaining. Its not as easy as bevor to be an slightly better then average player now and thats more then enough for a good game.

[Tugnut]

 

 

Ehm... You do understand that "play4fun" is just the password, right?

 

You have to give a password to enter the channel, it doesn't mean that we play to lose!

 

 

 

sorry lol... its just the words play for fun take me back to my WoT days and bad players saying it like playing like a idiot does not matter as long as your having fun doing it :/

 

But next time im on will cheak the channel out.

[OVanBruce]

 

sorry lol... its just the words play for fun take me back to my WoT days and bad players saying it like playing like a idiot does not matter as long as your having fun doing it :/

 

But next time im on will cheak the channel out.

 

I cannot help but recomend it. The channel is more active than ever and bursting with good players that want to div with other people. Having someone to talk to or simply listen while in the TS helps.