Unfair team battles?

[Furbs109]

 

Ok, tonight we ran into 2 teams using the new soviet CA, which of course can use radar. This completely tipped the tables in their favour and ruined the games. 

Team games are supposed to be a level playing field with skill and tactics deciding who wins, not which team uses a ship that is only available to a select few.

 

We will not be playing any more team games until the ship is released to everyone who takes part.

 

Black Watch.

 

[gr0pah]

I agree it's really a douche move if people with special (testing) access to the SN ships are using it to gain an advantage in Team Battles.

[havaduck]

I agree it's really a douche move if people with special (testing) access to the SN ships are using it to gain an advantage in Team Battles.

 

Very, very true.

 

On the other hand its basically just another step further from p2w ships and p2w-trained captains - so by the direction this game is going: no one should be surprised. They just have silver ships a "little earlier".

 

Not that I condone this buts its similar to:

 

CV vs air supremacy skill CV

Mogami 155 vs Kutuzov

Mogami 203 vs Atago

Benson vs LoYang - hey at least the "hydro-Benson" is a worse overall Benson aside from the consumable

etc

 

... and nobody swings a tail at that.

 

 

 

 

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

Agree, i quit team battles

[ColonelPete]

Woot?

 

You are basically saying that these ships are much stronger than the other ships. I doubt that.

[EmilyFara]

Are they that good? Or is the RADAR that effective?

[havaduck]

Woot?

 

You are basically saying that these ships are much stronger than the other ships. I doubt that.

 

No he said having unique access to radar while no one other does and using it in team battles is a douche bag move.

 

.... and I can imagine 3-4 people running premium R Rader ships might also be capable of droping the obligatory CV and with timed radar pops annihilating the enemy DDs.

 

 

Let me put it in simpler terms, Pete: YOU never get to use radar in this game, even after it get introduced on other ships and to the public with the R cruisers.

 

Do you feel at a disadvantage?

[LilJumpa]

I agree it's really a douche move if people with special (testing) access to the SN ships are using it to gain an advantage in Team Battles.

 

Testing - use them in all environments on the live server to get an opininion. Team Battles is certainly one of the game modes where they could have an impact. Ranked battles are momentarily not available.

Unfair advantage? To gain what? There is nothing in teambattles to achieve other than being somewhere on a list. No rewards.

 

I actually would have liked to play against a team with the new ability to see the impact of radar and maybe already think about how it can be used in a teamcomposition.

 

@ complaining people

Don't take part in the event tonight. I bet some of them are going to use the new cruisers, since most of them have access.

[havaduck]

 

Testing - use them in all environments on the live server to get an opininion. Team Battles is certainly one of the game modes where they could have an impact. Ranked battles are momentarily not available.

Unfair advantage? To gain what? There is nothing in teambattles to achieve other than being somewhere on a list. No rewards.

 

Except being robbed of the fun of a fair play invoirement.

 

I like to play cards with my friends - but they could bugger of when cheating/using a unfair advantage? I mean wth is it with people today? To much Armstrong attitude?

 

Should I be the only one able to bring a Yamato into team battles, because its ok since there is nothing to be gained?

 

 

.... speaking of which: There ARE still bills. So I guess those saying it isnt a big thing will also send doubloons to exchange for credits and cover the repair bills of anyone who got sunk by preview radar?

[LilJumpa]

that doesn't even make sense....

[Hanszeehock]

Supertesters have been given access to all the RUCAs to test on the live server. As LilJumpa has said we have been asked to test these ships in all modes including team battles. 

 

Once the the ships are released generally it's going to take people quite a long time to reach T8 where radar is first available unless they use a ton of free XP. In addition from my own experience of testing radar is not the game changer some people might think it is. It only lasts 20 seconds with a long reload time. If I was in a DD I would be more concerned about being spotted by planes.

[ColonelPete]

Let me put it in simpler terms, Pete: YOU never get to use radar in this game, even after it get introduced on other ships and to the public with the R cruisers.

 

Do you feel at a disadvantage?

 

No, not if it is balanced.

 

What you are saying is basically that a team with a Königsberg (improved sonar) is better than a team without it.

There are already that many ships in the game, that one team will always have ships in the team that the other team does not have.

That did not cause problems until now (unless one ship was too powerful) and I am sure it will not cause problems in the future (unless one ship is too powerful)

[Furbs109]

Supertesters have been given access to all the RUCAs to test on the live server. As LilJumpa has said we have been asked to test these ships in all modes including team battles. 

 

Once the the ships are released generally it's going to take people quite a long time to reach T8 where radar is first available unless they use a ton of free XP. In addition from my own experience of testing radar is not the game changer some people might think it is. It only lasts 20 seconds with a long reload time. If I was in a DD I would be more concerned about being spotted by planes.

 

Of course, but they are getting a advantage that the other team does not have the choice to use, ie not a level playing field, pretty sure you would feel different if it was your games being ruined. We saw in the 2 games we played vs radar what a huge advantage it was. Were not a bad team, but when the opposing team can park up the CA behind a island and spot every ship in a cap your trying to defend and shoot the crap out of your team it leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and makes you feel that there is no point trying.

 

 

[Furbs109]

 

No, not if it is balanced.

 

What you are saying is basically that a team with a Königsberg (improved sonar) is better than a team without it.

There are already that many ships in the game, that one team will always have ships in the team that the other team does not have.

That did not cause problems until now (unless one ship was too powerful) and I am sure it will not cause problems in the future (unless one ship is too powerful)

 

The point is...every team can choose to pick a Konigsberg. Only a select few teams can use the radar, so its not a level playing field.

[ColonelPete]

Bascially it is: I want something that others have.

 

That has nothing to do with fairness: The deciding factor is IN the match. And teams will always have ships that the other team does not have. If the ships are balanced, it is fine. If not, then not.

[havaduck]

 

No, not if it is balanced.

 

 

 

Its (supposedly) balanced in a way to have Radar available, its just YOU who arent getting it (even on ships that are going to get it ans are also supposedly balanced with at least having the option).

 

like ...... having AP and HE shells .... its just YOU that arent allowed to use AP shells ... for now. Which means you can still angle ... but the the enemy doesnt need to. (at least in terms of fear of citadels)

[ColonelPete]

AP/HE is a different ball game than radar.

[SethAbercromby]

I feel hava is overselling the impact of Radar a little. Yes, it's frustrating to not have any real access to it in the foreseeable future, but as Hans and some others have pointed out in this and other threads, it lasts only 20 seconds and shouldn't be able to spot through islands. If that change is made, I think it'll only be as good as the scout plane used to be in CBT.

 

By the way, can our scout planes get a little more useful again? That range buff is nice and all but I'd appreciate the actual scouting a little more.

[Furbs109]

AP/HE is a different ball game than radar.

 

Have you played a team game where your enemies had radar and you did not?

[ColonelPete]

 

Have you played a team game where your enemies had radar and you did not?

 

Woot?

 

You are basically saying that these ships are much stronger than the other ships. I doubt that.

[Elias_D]

We met the radar in team battles. Basically not knowing how long it lasts or how much range it has. I agree that it was unfair to be allowed in team battles.  In general I believe that all supertesters took advantage from it before it comes public. So that is testing against all other users with something they can't have. It would be nice to test things out of the statistics of normal players and ofcourse no supertester to gain more advantage from others for "testing" purposes. Anyway what is done is done as we say in Greece. Real soon everybody will have the chance to fight again more fair having the chance to use modules and weapons that can be used by anyone and not only by selected few.

[Vulgarny]

Just kill soviet cruiser first?

[0ptImuS_Pr1mE]

Wut advantage we have? Playing RU cruisers....ye it's pretty cool when whole team hunt you like they saw ghost. And that's not only with RU CA, any ship which go on live server for testing purpose is more like dead man walking then any advantage.

[Hanszeehock]

We met the radar in team battles. Basically not knowing how long it lasts or how much range it has. I agree that it was unfair to be allowed in team battles.  In general I believe that all supertesters took advantage from it before it comes public. So that is testing against all other users with something they can't have. It would be nice to test things out of the statistics of normal players and ofcourse no supertester to gain more advantage from others for "testing" purposes. Anyway what is done is done as we say in Greece. Real soon everybody will have the chance to fight again more fair having the chance to use modules and weapons that can be used by anyone and not only by selected few.

 

We do not gain any advantage. We get no XP and no credits and the battles do not affect our stats. As Optimus says you get targeted all the time. 

[ezymodo]

As has been said previously, WG itself wanted the supertesters to test the radar in different environments including the team battle mode.

Since one of our clan members have access to one of these RU cruisers (Chapayev), we put it into one of our casual teams to test its usefulness in team battles. 

(this casual team consist mostly of not-so-active players and is mainly used for fun, experiments, and training purposes). 

 

We immediately notices that the radar has a short duration (20 seconds) and long cooldown time (4 minutes).

This time frame is just enough to shoot 1 BB salvo, 2 CA salvo, and 4-5 DD salvo, respectively.

Thus, we wait until all the gun tubes are reloaded and preaim at the smoke before the radar is activated.

 

This doctrine is effective against destroyers and Mikhail Kutusov, which has a tendency to sit inside the smoke and is normally destroyed with 1-2 salvo.

It is much less effective against battleships, which cannot be taken down within such time period and normally angled, and dropping torps into the smoke is preferable in such circumstances.

Unlike sonar, it cannot spot torpedoes; it is truly a one-trick pony which is only useful against a light ship (CA or DD) sitting still inside the smoke.

With the exception of North (which is notoriously campy), this consumable is of limited utility against high-rating teams with 1 or 0 DDs, which strategy revolves around pushes and attrition.

 

The main problem of radar is not the consumable itself, but the platform it is in.

While relatively decent, we found that the Chapayev is inferior to Atago and Mikhail Kutusov.

The combination of stealth, healing ability, good fire chance, good torpedo arc, and ability to use a high skill captain makes Atago the backbone of a serious team battles setup.

The highest AA rating of tier 8 Cruisers, combined with AA and smoke consumables makes Kutusov the premier support ship for team battles.  

Thus, it is unlikely that we will take any RU or US cruisers into the core team battle setup: the opportunity cost is quite high compared to the abovementioned alternatives.

 

P.S:

It seems to me (CMIIW) that the radar as currently working works by increasing the proxy spotting distance of the ship.

Thus, it spots everything within its range (circle with 10 km radius) without any need of direct line of sight.