Soviet T10 Cruiser Moskva - First Impressions [183k damage]

[mtm78]

 

Trolling is a bad habit my friend.  I have backed my posts with facts.

 

 

You're lying in every post you make. Where did Flamu ever say anything you claim he did? 

 

Lying is a bad habit VonPletz

 

 

 

I am to tired to do it for all the others, but your lies are even more tiresome. 

 

edit:

 

 

 

Another lie?

 

Really man, why you so prone on getting your lies pruned from this thread?

 

 

 

[Pupu_prpr]

 

Just as Flamu pointed out in his videos... Soviet ones will be pretty much OP at just about any tier.  I completely agree with his option.

 

 

As mtm78 pointed out, this is nonsense. The only Soviet ship I have considered to have too many benefits so far is the T6, because of the overly powerful guns. Even the T5 that I call a sealclubber, I only call that because of its ability to punish broadsides, something lower tiers show quite often. I sum up my thoughts on the Kirov here:

 

 

10:25 if the timestamp doesn't work.

[Crysantos]

 

Trolling is a bad habit my friend.  I have backed my posts with facts.

 

 

No, you are mutilating another thread with your stuff. You're distorting statements and downright lying about what people like flamu actually said - and I've watched all of his videos. So please stop this nonsense, you're making a fool out of yourself and you hijack another thread for you personal gain. I hope a moderator can clean up this mess.

[Getzamatic]

 

No, you are mutilating another thread with your stuff. You're distorting statements and downright lying about what people like flamu actually said - and I've watched all of his videos. So please stop this nonsense, you're making a fool out of yourself and you hijack another thread for you personal gain. I hope a moderator can clean up this mess.

 

Agreed.  I've found Flamu's videos something of a relief precisely because he's clearly said he doesn't think most of the ships he's reviewed are OP.

[mtm78]

 

As mtm78 pointed out, this is nonsense. The only Soviet ship I have considered to have too many benefits so far is the T6, because of the overly powerful guns. Even the T5 that I call a sealclubber, I only call that because of its ability to punish broadsides, something lower tiers show quite often. I sum up my thoughts on the Kirov here:

 

 

10:25 if the timestamp doesn't work.

 

In your conclusion I did wonder about something, as you call out the 'lack of anti air' on a Kirov which has the best anti air for tier 5 ( better then Murmansk ). Those 100mm DP guns have 6km range iirc with the captain skills and quite decent dps ( for the tier ).

[VonPletz]

I think it is pointed out that these Soviet Cruisers will be very powerful ships with high RoF cannons higher fire-starting capabilities and their unique abilities will be quite strong ships and a headache to DDs.  I think the videos demonstrate those points.

 

[Tyrendian89]

Even I wouldn't say they are all OP, tier 7 looks average and tier 8 is weaker than Mikhail Kutuzov (but still good).

This makes me even more worried about the state of premium ships.

 

that is pretty much the only thing that has me worried about this line right now: How the T8 has pretty much only disadvantages compared to Kutuzov - well except for a bit of concealment, and access to Radar, but other than that it's just plain a worse copy, much more blatantly so than any of the other premiums so far I feel (even Mogami still has her unique 155mm setup compared to Atago...)

[Pupu_prpr]

People have been requesting a lower tier Soviet commentary for a while, so I decided to have a look at the Bogatyr, the T3 one. If you guys enjoyed the St Louis then I have no doubt that you will also enjoy playing the Bogatyr.

 

 

The modules on this ship still baffle me though, or the gun module does. The ship description quite clearly says:

 

"The best protected cruiser in the Russian Navy. The ship was based on a project that was notable for its overall well-balanced features and good protection of the ship’s numerous main guns that were partly mounted in turrets.

During World War I, the ship was re-armed with smaller-caliber artillery that had a longer range and higher rate of fire.

"

 

Yet upgrading from the 152mm to 130mm guns gives you neither range nor ROF, only slightly reducing your turret traverse at the cost of damage. Really strange. Only way to actually gain these benefits would be through captain perks, since upgrading to 130mm means perks affect the guns..

[mtm78]

 

 Yet upgrading from the 152mm to 130mm guns gives you neither range nor ROF, only slightly reducing your turret traverse at the cost of damage. Really strange. Only way to actually gain these benefits would be through captain perks, since upgrading to 130mm means perks affect the guns..

 

You lose ROF and dmg per round, but with AFT and BFT you get almost the same ROF as with the big guns, but you gain a lot of range ( with a still pretty good arc imo ). The upgraded guns in combination with a high skilled captain make this a certified seal clubber imo. Which as you note is strange, as it goes against the latest captain skill changes which were intended to prevent 'seal clubbing' effect of high skill captains on low tier ships compared with new players playing on that tier just to progress to the next rank. 

[Takeda92]

 

You lose ROF and dmg per round, but with AFT and BFT you get almost the same ROF as with the big guns, but you gain a lot of range ( with a still pretty good arc imo ). The upgraded guns in combination with a high skilled captain make this a certified seal clubber imo. Which as you note is strange, as it goes against the latest captain skill changes which were intended to prevent 'seal clubbing' effect of high skill captains on low tier ships compared with new players playing on that tier just to progress to the next rank. 

 

A sealclubbing low-tier Soviet cruiser will draw many players and keep them in the game.

 

This line is WG's response to the decreasing amount of players and this is why almost all pf these ships are really good.

[mtm78]

 

A sealclubbing low-tier Soviet cruiser will draw many players and keep them in the game.

 

This line is WG's response to the decreasing amount of players and this is why almost all pf these ships are really good.

 

Good new ships attract players, but having good ships which when combined with high skill point captains which make some ships even more powerful and you get the opposite effect. You won't keep new people playing if they have the same ship but get > 2km less range ( how many tier III captains will have AFT other then the one's who play the tier for reasons other than progression to the next tier up? ) Also, good new ships can also lose existing players who don't want to feel pressured into grinding a new line because powercreep made the line's they already unlocked less attractive. I don't think there is powercreep btw, personally I don't even like the tier VI which in Flamu's hands ( and according to his opinion ) is the only candidate for being in possession off to many strong points and not enough weak points.

[von_Boeg]

 

A sealclubbing low-tier Soviet cruiser will draw many players and keep them in the game.

 

This line is WG's response to the decreasing amount of players and this is why almost all pf these ships are really good.

 

This is the real issue here, not the OP/ not OP one. I predict that these cruisers will avarage on a higher WR then the US and German ones, and that the Russian bias will be alive and well after their release. It is this somewhat hidden slightly better preformance of the Russian ships that annoys me the most, not the obvious BS like the Imp and the silly buff on MK.

 

Not that it matters that much, I just can not bring myself to play any more; I really wanted to like the game but for me the Russian cruisers was the last straw...

[Crysantos]

 

This is the real issue here, not the OP/ not OP one. I predict that these cruisers will avarage on a higher WR then the US and German ones, and that the Russian bias will be alive and well after their release. It is this somewhat hidden slightly better preformance of the Russian ships that annoys me the most, not the obvious BS like the Imp and the silly buff on MK.

 

To be honest - you haven't played these ships, people like flamu, me or Izo tell you that they're not overpowered, that they're actually pretty balanced - and still a lot of forumites talk about them performing better, being stronger or russian bias etc. I don't see them performing better on most Tiers, maybe Tier VI. Why do people judge so easily without ever playing these ships on their own? You watch flamu's videos - one of the best players I know - and assume that the average Joe can do the same thing - he won't. Instead of putting it into perspective with the other ships that compete with this class on each Tier. Russian cruisers suffer the same fate like german cruisers do, they trade off their armor for decent guns and hail mary torpedoes.

 

So in general - I'm happy about this new line, it has its own flavour and feeling - it's mostly well balanced and especially TIX and TX will be hard to master and to achieve better results than in a Hindenburg or Zao, even Des Moines. So when they get released, just play them - they're a lot of fun, usually quick games because I guess most tend to die early on

[gr0pah]

 

You lose ROF and dmg per round, but with AFT and BFT you get almost the same ROF as with the big guns, but you gain a lot of range ( with a still pretty good arc imo ). The upgraded guns in combination with a high skilled captain make this a certified seal clubber imo. Which as you note is strange, as it goes against the latest captain skill changes which were intended to prevent 'seal clubbing' effect of high skill captains on low tier ships compared with new players playing on that tier just to progress to the next rank. 

 

Spot on. It's basically custom made for dedicated seal clubbers to abuse high level captain skills (hello Murmansk owners). Which, as you say, is the exact opposite of what WG said they wanted to regulate with 0.5.3.0. 

 

So many STL owners will be trolled by BFT/AFT Bogatyr players...

[mtm78]

 

Spot on. It's basically custom made for dedicated seal clubbers to abuse high level captain skills (hello Murmansk owners). Which, as you say, is the exact opposite of what WG said they wanted to regulate with 0.5.3.0. 

 

So many STL owners will be trolled by BFT/AFT Bogatyr players...

 

Live testing doesn't mean the ships will go public with these stats.. feedback from live testing is taken into consideration, this is how it's always been I just found it noteworthy because I can't imagine this eluding anyone paying attention anyway so putting it out there should generate only more valuable feedback.

[JohnA87]

Looks like an interesting line, or well, not the 7 and 8 ones.. 

 

My problem with it however is the Moskva, stat wise it looks cool insane guns balanced by the fact that its a cruiser with huge citadel and detection range however: IT IS TO BIG! Yes i know, balance and all that, but hello, a CA the size of the Yamato it does not sit well with me, and imo it simply looks stupid that the biggest BB ever to sail the 7 seas is smaller then a cruiser (even a paper one)..

 

Again i understand its a balance thing, but damn, common... 

[Kurbain]

Looks like an interesting line, or well, not the 7 and 8 ones.. 

 

The T8 cruiser appears to be a capable ship as well since it can stealth-fire from 14,1 KM upwards if you fully improve its concealment.

Here's a video from NoZoupForYou about it:

 

 

Unlike the Kutuzov it has good concealment, and unlike the 155mm B/C-Hull Mogami it doesn't have the firing penalty of a 203mm cruiser.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for the videos and commentaries "Flamu" - I always love to watch your YouTube channel!

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Earl_of_Northesk]

 

The T8 cruiser appears to be a capable ship as well since it can stealth-fire from 14,1 KM upwards if you fully improve its concealment.

Here's a video from NoZoupForYou about it:

 

 

Unlike the Kutuzov it has good concealment, and unlike the 155mm B/C-Hull Mogami it doesn't have the firing penalty of a 203mm cruiser.

 

That stealth firing thing is VERY theorethical though. Honestly, 14,1km is still a rather huge detection range and in the tier range it will be played in most maps are often rather small (Hotspot, Two Brothers, North, Northern Ligths) I doubt it will really be a thing. Even on Zao, it's mostly late game.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

BTW; "Flamu", what "MiniMap" MOD are you using?

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Getzamatic]

 

Spot on. It's basically custom made for dedicated seal clubbers to abuse high level captain skills (hello Murmansk owners). Which, as you say, is the exact opposite of what WG said they wanted to regulate with 0.5.3.0. 

 

So many STL owners will be trolled by BFT/AFT Bogatyr players...

 

This.  I have an Aurora Captain who'd very much like to have a go at the Bogatyr and Svetlana...

[Earl_of_Northesk]

 

This.  I have an Aurora Captain who'd very much like to have a go at the Bogatyr and Svetlana...

 

Retraining an Aurora Captain with 10 skill points on a Bogatyr will basically take all the time you need to grind through it. Worth it? Nah, only if you are a hardcore sealclubber. A lot of people could have don this with Kuma's, Phoenix' and stuff before, but how many did? A sad, sad little minority.

[Getzamatic]

 

Retraining an Aurora Captain with 10 skill points on a Bogatyr will basically take all the time you need to grind through it. Worth it? Nah, only if you are a hardcore sealclubber. A lot of people could have don this with Kuma's, Phoenix' and stuff before, but how many did? A sad, sad little minority.

 

Or I could throw the price of a Ham sandwich at it, or use some of the millions of silver I have lying around, or just not bother.  The point is that there are plenty of players - myself included - who have experienced Russian captains we could transplant into these cruisers if we wanted to.

[mtm78]

 

Or I could throw the price of a Ham sandwich at it, or use some of the millions of silver I have lying around, or just not bother.  The point is that there are plenty of players - myself included - who have experienced Russian captains we could transplant into these cruisers if we wanted to.

 

Look it's simple, some people buy Pz II J's ... like you said, putting a good captain in these ships won't be a big deal to those people

[von_Boeg]

 

To be honest - you haven't played these ships, people like flamu, me or Izo tell you that they're not overpowered, that they're actually pretty balanced - and still a lot of forumites talk about them performing better, being stronger or russian bias etc. I don't see them performing better on most Tiers, maybe Tier VI. Why do people judge so easily without ever playing these ships on their own? You watch flamu's videos - one of the best players I know - and assume that the average Joe can do the same thing - he won't. Instead of putting it into perspective with the other ships that compete with this class on each Tier. Russian cruisers suffer the same fate like german cruisers do, they trade off their armor for decent guns and hail mary torpedoes.

 

As per usual some condesending comments about me basing my opinions on some video and the usual "you have not played them so you can not know". If you instead focused on what I wrote this discussion might be better. What I was dicussing was the fact that the Russian ships ON AVARAGE are way better then any other nation. In fact, I would argue that it is impossible to observe the bias by playing the ships, you have to look at the stats to see it.

 

As of now, the worst Russian ship in the game with more then 1000 battles on the EU server, the Derzki have WR of 49% on avarage and 28 ships worse then it when it comes to WR. 22 of those ships are American. In fact, Russia have 12 ships placed between 1-50 and four ships between 51-100, and none among 101-117, while the US have eight ships 1-50, 17 ships 51-100 and 14 ships between 101-117. Check it yourself if you do not trust me, and I want to ask you two things:

 

1. Please do explain how this is not Russian bias and just a result of randomness

2. Please do explain how the HELL I am supposed to discover this by "playing the ships"

 

If we do the same for Germany we get one ship among 1-50 in WR, nine among 51-100 and one among 101-117, while Japan have 25 among 1-50, 19 among 51-100 and two among 101-117.It is clear that at the moment a Russian ship is on avarage way better then anything else, followed by Japan and then Germany, while a US one is the worst pick. If WG really wanted to avoid this current bias in favour of Russian ships I would assume that they would make the new line slightly inferior to the existing ones, but I do not think that will happen.

 

My prediction is that the new cruiser line will not compete with the US ships for worst WR, and I am willing to take bets. I assume you are eager to challange me since you have "played the ships"...