Soviet T10 Cruiser Moskva - First Impressions [183k damage]

[mtm78]

On equal skill players the Moskva will beat the Zao. 

 

Zao cannot reach the Moskva which is as fast and more agile.

 

Zao has 40800 HP the Moskva has 65000.

 

Zao fires 52.8 shells per minute the Moskva (with module) fires 59.4. Firing purely HE Zao has 179k dps  the Moskva has 184k dps.

 

Zao has worse turret angles than Moskva.

 

Unless the Zao manages to destroy a turret or get within 3-4km for a reliable torp drop it has no chance of winning.

 

Not convinced, depends on the map and team composition / stage in the battle. Zao can invisi fire against Moskva. I did citadel a Zao angled frontally with Moskva, so there is that. 

 

Still, this is why there is live testing, if the numbers coming back to WG indicate that there are actual issues they have time to alter some of the aspects. I can't compete with the top players, not only because of skill gap but also because I don't have the credits to equip all the ships as they should ( playing high tier ships with no upgrades doesn't show their full potential ). 

[Pawndemonium]

Well it's BB size, if it grabs attention it will get hit, but yeah RNG and all that, but even a few hits will drop the HP advantage, against cruisers it does have the edge though, didn't want to deny that, just saying that it suffers even more than other cruisers vs BBs.

 

The Zao is atm quite... yeah, apart from her different role, I think stealth firing and the perk concealment expert, along with the concealment module need to be redesigned... .p

[BabbaBoon]

surprise surprise, overpowered Russian ships, didn't see that coming.

[Comrad_StaIin]

the Tier VI will definitly get nerfed the Rest is fine I think

[Crysantos]

Finished my commentary on the T6 Budyonny.

 

 

The guns on the Budyonny are imo an example of too many good things. If they are that long range and that accurate they need to either have slower shell speed (example, cleveland) or be situational (example, nurnberg). Right now I just feel like this ship would be horribly frustrating to fight if sailed by a competent captain, constantly sitting at 16km spamming shells at everything that moves. BBs especially are stupidly easy to melt from range in this thing.

 

I agree with that summary, although we should also point out the downsides of the Budyonny. Armor, AA and HP are inferior to the Cleveland. The US counterpart also has an extra triple-barrel turret with imho stronger HE. Despite that - the range, velocity and quality of the Budyonny's guns are a very welcome trade for that. "Melting" BBs with AP salvos is possible but depends a lot on angle and isn't as reliable as the HE spam including fires from other ships. But I agree that this cruiser might need a bit of tweaking or actually I'd rather see a buff of the nerfed Cleveland's range (or give it a better shell arc). Otherwise I'd remove the spotting plane or tune down the range to 15.5 ~ 15.8 km-ish.

 

Flamu, lst night your friend parked in the middle of the map with his Moskva. 3 ships (me in Amagi) spammed his broadside with AP rounds and he was jsut laughing.....hillarious isnt it? Either WG will fix this nonsense or we will have the best ship in the game by far and wet fantasy of every insane WG player...

 

I guess it was me and Izo in the Moskvas on Shatter you've met, if I recall correctly? I just checked the replay, you never did such things - you shot at me on angle and whiffed most of your salvos, your NO was pretty annoying with HE and I died to focus fire and a Shima torp eventually. At no point you were shooting at me or Izo on full broadside or we both have a very different definition of broadsiding. After around 15 games in this beast I can assure you, due to the huge size of this ship (Yamato-like), the resulting bad concealment value, the (in comparison) big turning circle and high silhouette / position in the water it's pretty balanced because easy to shoot and hit/set on fire. Treat it like a baby BB and you'll be golden - in general I still think the Zao is going to perform better. Why? Once you commit to a fight, you have a hard time disengaging - unlike the stealthy Zao or DM. Once you're forced to make the evil turn, everything can citadel you - seriously everything. But this is why I think it's pretty well balanced, people that never played this ship and don't know how to deal with it will call it OP - but I honestly disagree. And I actually expect experienced players like you to be a bit more mature when it comes to judging ships you've fought and be honest about how you / the enemy performed.

 

Check out these two replays (of better games in Moskva) to see how it works, what it's good at and what its weaknesses are - in the first video you can see how easily Izo got melted, but he was also able to melt the Iowa in return. The second video shows you fragile the ship can be, without my DD's smoke I would've probably died to focus fire within the first minutes:

 

[T_H_0_R]

 

I guess it was me and Izo in the Moskvas on Shatter you've met, if I recall correctly? I just checked the replay, you never did such things - you shot at me on angle and whiffed most of your salvos, your NO was pretty annoying with HE and I died to focus fire and a Shima torp eventually.

 

That was me in NO. Did my best to use concealment and HE since you were indeed angled. We further embaressed ourselves by third division mate who took NM instead of Colorado (only he knows how he did it, I pressed battle then canceled for him to take premium repair - which he did, only on NM lol).

 

Thanks for the coolheaded and objective reply. As I said to Tvrdi on local forums - he is overreacting over this and you can not judge ship performance based on one single encounter. I trust your comment on how fragile this ship can be if you show your broadside. I presume we will get a better view once we see them released to public and not in so capable hands.

[mtm78]

I guess it was me and Izo in the Moskvas on Shatter you've met, if I recall correctly? I just checked the replay, you never did such things - you shot at me on angle and whiffed most of your salvos, your NO was pretty annoying with HE and I died to focus fire and a Shima torp eventually. At no point you were shooting at me or Izo on full broadside or we both have a very different definition of broadsiding. 

 

Omg, thanks for showing the level of competence of that ..... Not that I am at any level even close to surprised I mean Moskva get's citadeled by low tier CA's when showing broadside and he can't do it with a tier 8 BB ye sure 

 

Once you're forced to make the evil turn, everything can citadel you - seriously everything. But this is why I think it's pretty well balanced, people that never played this ship and don't know how to deal with it will call it OP - but I honestly disagree.

 

No no, you heard it here first, it's OP because he 'can't aim' 

[Hanszeehock]

 

I guess it was me and Izo in the Moskvas on Shatter you've met, if I recall correctly? I just checked the replay, you never did such things - you shot at me on angle and whiffed most of your salvos, your NO was pretty annoying with HE and I died to focus fire and a Shima torp eventually. At no point you were shooting at me or Izo on full broadside or we both have a very different definition of broadsiding. After around 15 games in this beast I can assure you, due to the huge size of this ship (Yamato-like), the resulting bad concealment value, the (in comparison) big turning circle and high silhouette / position in the water it's pretty balanced because easy to shoot and hit/set on fire. Treat it like a baby BB and you'll be golden - in general I still think the Zao is going to perform better. Why? Once you commit to a fight, you have a hard time disengaging - unlike the stealthy Zao or DM. Once you're forced to make the evil turn, everything can citadel you - seriously everything. But this is why I think it's pretty well balanced, people that never played this ship and don't know how to deal with it will call it OP - but I honestly disagree. And I actually expect experienced players like you to be a bit more mature when it comes to judging ships you've fought and be honest about how you / the enemy performed.

 

Very good summary. After several battles in the Moskva I agree with your conclusions. All the higher tier RU CAs have very weak armour and any BB can citadel them at the front and rear. I get fed up with all these posts from people who have not played these ships and assume they are OP. We had the same rubbish spouted about the Russian DDs before release. I'm just wondering how long it will take after release for all the RU CAs are useless threads to start.

[Crysantos]

 

That was me in NO. Did my best to use concealment and HE since you were indeed angled. We further embaressed ourselves by third division mate who took NM instead of Colorado (only he knows how he did it, I pressed battle then canceled for him to take premium repair - which he did, only on NM lol).

 

Thanks for the coolheaded and objective reply. As I said to Tvrdi on local forums - he is overreacting over this and you can not judge ship performance based on one single encounter. I trust your comment on how fragile this ship can be if you show your broadside. I presume we will get a better view once we see them released to public and not in so capable hands.

 

I appreciate you being honest, too. Helps a lot to actually talk in a constructive way about the things to come. You played well, I think me and Izo both tried to catch you with a few salvos but you dodged like a boss and put quite some fire pressure on us. But it'll be fun when all those people complaining now are going to push towards the Moskva and then come back to the forum just to complain how weak the armor is and how fast they die.

[Earl_of_Northesk]

 

Very good summary. After several battles in the Moskva I agree with your conclusions. All the higher tier RU CAs have very weak armour and any BB can citadel them at the front and rear. I get fed up with all these posts from people who have not played these ships and assume they are OP. We had the same rubbish spouted about the Russian DDs before release. I'm just wondering how long it will take after release for all the RU CAs are useless threads to start.

 

They were OP. They just got nerfed before release and another time when they were already live, and rightly so. Let's not forget that.

[Hanszeehock]

 

They were OP. They just got nerfed before release and another time when they were already live, and rightly so. Let's not forget that.

 

Exactly, that is why we are testing them now. If they are OP they will be nerfed. But I do not think they are.

[Pupu_prpr]

Finished my T9 commentary on the Dmitri Donskoi.

 

 

The final ship before the Moskva, this one definitively stands out from the rest of the T9 cruisers. The huge size and terrible concealment makes it terrible at going off solo, yet thanks to the range, radar and the high AA rating it makes for an exceptional escort ship.

This ship is going to be rough for a lot of players, I can already see that. Not because it's bad, but because the T8 Chapayev is pretty much a polar opposite of this ship. It's a miniature Mikhail Kutuzov with excellent stealth (i got it to 10.2km concealment with t5 perk), capable of stealth firing like a god. This one on the other hand starts out at a stock 16km concealment, the transition to a completely different playing style isn't going to be easy on the average player.

[BillydSquid]

I've not looked at all the videos, I will later today. I wanted to get some games in with my Hipper as I've been away for a while. But I look at the overlap between the new Russian CAs and their German Counterparts and feel that Moskva is treading on the Hindenburg's toes too much at this point. That shell dispersion in the video vs the DD in the first few minutes is crazy 15km and you hit with the entire salvo I think, maybe it was RNG given that dispersion increases with range, but still, that's laser accurate. 

 

I'm more interested in the radar sweep and if it will be applied to German CAs too, even if it's not as good as the Russian and US version, it'd be soooooo much more fun to play combined with the buffed Sonar so you don't spend every game taking walls of torpedoes in T9/10

[VonPletz]

I've not looked at all the videos, I will later today. I wanted to get some games in with my Hipper as I've been away for a while. But I look at the overlap between the new Russian CAs and their German Counterparts and feel that Moskva is treading on the Hindenburg's toes too much at this point. That shell dispersion in the video vs the DD in the first few minutes is crazy 15km and you hit with the entire salvo I think, maybe it was RNG given that dispersion increases with range, but still, that's laser accurate. 

 

I'm more interested in the radar sweep and if it will be applied to German CAs too, even if it's not as good as the Russian and US version, it'd be soooooo much more fun to play combined with the buffed Sonar so you don't spend every game taking walls of torpedoes in T9/10

 

Just as Flamu pointed out in his videos... Soviet ones will be pretty much OP at just about any tier.  I completely agree with his option.

 

[mtm78]

 

Just as Flamu pointed out in his videos... Soviet ones will be pretty much OP at just about any tier.  I completely agree with his option.

 

 

He said the opposite, but hey no one is surprised of you lying anymore. 

[VonPletz]

Finished my T9 commentary on the Dmitri Donskoi.

 

 

The final ship before the Moskva, this one definitively stands out from the rest of the T9 cruisers. The huge size and terrible concealment makes it terrible at going off solo, yet thanks to the range, radar and the high AA rating it makes for an exceptional escort ship.

This ship is going to be rough for a lot of players, I can already see that. Not because it's bad, but because the T8 Chapayev is pretty much a polar opposite of this ship. It's a miniature Mikhail Kutuzov with excellent stealth (i got it to 10.2km concealment with t5 perk), capable of stealth firing like a god. This one on the other hand starts out at a stock 16km concealment, the transition to a completely different playing style isn't going to be easy on the average player.

 

I agree...I think this Tier 9 ship will be the brightest jewel of all the Soviet Cruisers.  It has the best balance of turrets 2x2 so you can attack and retreat with the same power without showing a broadside.

 

[VonPletz]

 

He said the opposite, but hey no one is surprised of you lying anymore. 

 

Did you watch his videos?  I did and he points out (especially the Tier 5 ship) is OP.  Even with weak armor.  From the video he did.... But the way you talk on this thread it does not surprise me with your attack.

 

 

[mtm78]

 

Did you watch his videos?  I did and he points out (especially the Tier 5 ship) is OP.  Even with weak armor.  From the video he did...I agree.

 

 

Yeah I did and I especially heard him say that none of them would be OP besides perhaps the tier 6 where he said the ship had no real downsides to offset the pro's. 

 

Show us where Flamu claimed ..

 

 

Just as Flamu pointed out in his videos... Soviet ones will be pretty much OP at just about any tier.  I completely agree with his option.

 

 

[VonPletz]

 

Yeah I did and I especially heard him say that none of them would be OP besides perhaps the tier 6 where he said the ship had no real downsides to offset the pro's. 

 

Show us where Flamu claimed ..

 

 

 

In his evaluation on the Tier 6 ship. All the higher tier Soviet Cruisers will definitely give DDs fits with the surface radar.

 

[mtm78]

 

In his evaluation on the Tier 6 ship.

 

 

Time index of where he said all Russian ships would be OP at just about any tier.... 

[VonPletz]

 

Time index of where he said all Russian ships would be OP at just about any tier.... 

 

11:00

 

[mtm78]

Lying is a bad habit VonPletz

 

 

 

I am to tired to do it for all the others, but your lies are even more tiresome. 

 

edit:

 

 

11:00

 

 

 

Another lie?

 

Really man, why you so prone on getting your lies pruned from this thread?

 

 

[BillydSquid]

Hmmm finally got some time to watch T10 and T9 vids, by the look of it the Russian CAs have worse AP penetration than the Roon and Hindenberg, which I know from the Roon can citadel a BB reasonably well. That was my biggest worry, that the Moskva's AP shells would simply outstrip the Hindenberg in armour penetration and AP damage, while having better HE. 

 

Looks like the Hipper, Roon and Hindenberg remain the go to ships for AP sniping. I'm happy with that, so long as they keep the difference between the ship lines noticeable. 

 

I do think looking at the shell trajectory and shell dispersion that the Moskva is too good in those areas, very tight shell grouping and low arc for 14km shots, especially with the shell calibre it's firing although it depends on the shell velocity. 

 

Yet, looking at the hits he took from the Yamato and the AP hits on another Moskva makes me think that it's going to have real problems with concealment and getting jumped by a max conceal Hindenburg, Zao or Roon slamming AP shells into it's broadside if unspotted or the Moskva's giving a broadside. Interesting.

[Takeda92]

Even I wouldn't say they are all OP, tier 7 looks average and tier 8 is weaker than Mikhail Kutuzov (but still good).

This makes me even more worried about the state of premium ships.

[VonPletz]

 

Really man, why you so prone on getting your lies pruned from this thread?

 

 

 

Trolling is a bad habit my friend.  I have backed my posts with facts.