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Crazy idea - Submarines

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What if submarines were implemented in WoWs?

 

Survivability: Very low, less HP/armor than DD at same tier. Any hit suffered by any part of the vessel can score a citadel, even by DD guns firing HE. Unbreakable modules (cannot lose engine power or jammed rudder).

 

Weaponry: Single torpedo tubes, placed at the nose of the vessel. Tight spread only. Can only fire forward AND emerged (no submerged sneak attacks). Single-click to fire one tube, double-click to fire all tubes. No AA, no guns. Number of torpedo tubes varies with tier and nation. Torpedo range and damage varies with nation.

 

Mobility: Kind of slow cruising speed, but fast acceleration/deceleration, very fast rudder shift, very tight turning radius. Think DD mobility on steroids, but BB top speed. New mechanic - emerge/submerge.

 

Concealment: Excellent. DD tier concealment when emerged, almost undetectable when submerged.

 

New mechanics/features

 

- Visibility: When emerged, standard surface combat visibility rules apply (like sailing a normal ship). When submerged, visibility assumes a kind of textured wireframe aspect, with some distance blur, and the bottom of the surrounding ships is visible, as well as the respective moving propellers and rudders. Minimap changes to reflect underwater topography. Underwater ordnance (missed shells, missed dive bombs, depth charges and torpedoes) are visible within range. Underwater explosions (torpedoes) and sinking ships/wrecks are also visible within range.

 

- Detection: When emerged, has DD tier concealment (standard detection rules apply). When submerged, can only be detected by DD, cruisers and other submerged submarines. Can effectively sail under other ships undetected (beware of emerge-ramming). Emerging and submerging creates a bubbling effect on the water that can be used by the enemy to detect the submarine (or at least be aware of its presence).

 

- Damage susceptability: When emerged, standard surface combat rules apply. When submerged, immune to torpedoes (still travel at the surface, slightly under the waterline, above the cruising depth), missed shelling and dive bombs can score hits (with 50% damage reduction due to water drag), only DD and certain (light) cruisers can directly attack it with depth charges (full damage). Fires are automatically extinguished when underwater. Cannot emerge when flooding. Underwater ramming between submarines possible. Ramming by emerging possible. Due to low survivability, ramming is lethal to the submarine.

 

- Mobility: When emerged, standard surface mobility rules apply. When submerged, underwater topography affects the way the submarine can move (cannot submerge in shallow waters, narrower pathways between islands, etc). Only two selectable Z-axis positions - emerged (surface combat) or submerged (cruising depth equal to all submarines, predefined by map). Speed at which a submarine emerges/submerges varies with nation. Can maneuver/accelerate/decelerate while emerging/submerging.

 

- New weapon - Depth Charge. Selectable as a third weapon, equipped by default on all DD and certain (light) cruisers. Fires from the rear with single-click, straight back (like lobbing an oil drum out of the rear of the ship), 5 secs reload. No aiming interface. Sinks straight down (slower than missed shells/dive bombs due to water drag), detonates when hit/very near proximity of the submarine or reaching the max depth (a bit lower than the submerged cruising depth). Damage varies with tier and nation. Has splash damage - can still deal some damage if it detonates on max depth, while near enough to a submarine to not detonate by proximity.

 

- New equipment - Passive Sonar. Default and permanently active piece of equipment on all DD and cruisers. Cannot be upgraded or deactivated. Detects submerged submarines at short ranges. Does not affect detection of torpedoes or surface ships.

 

- New consumable - Active Sonar. DD only, selectable at homeport, replaces Engine Overdrive consumable (like cruisers can select between Hydrophones and AA Barrage consumables). Detects submerged submarines at medium/long range.

 

- Availability: Premium ships for the Japanese, American and German tree lines.

 

- Maps: Changes must be made to the maps where submarines will sail, to support underwater gameplay and topography.

 

- Matchmaking: Number of submarines on one side must be equal to the number of submarines on the other side. On each side, number of DD must be greater than the number of submarines.

 

How to play:

- Hit the Emerge/Submerge key to engage surface or underwater modes.

- Submerge to move around in relative safety. Mind the missed shells and bombs.

- Emerge to launch torpedoes. Due to lack of weapon aiming, the submarine must be maneuvered correctly so the torpedoes can be fired in the desired direction. Think tank destroyers in WoT (tanks with fixed guns).

- Avoid detection at all costs. DD are a lot faster than submarines, and will stalk and depth charge you to death. You can always try to emerge-ram ...

- Being submerged does not make you invincible. Even if all DD have been sunk, other surface ships can still hit you by blind firing guns at your general direction, and a BB shell will still hurt even with water drag damage reduction.

 

Crazy idea? Dumb idea?

 

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Beta Tester
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  I've read somewhere that in the ARP tech tree there has been a submarine ship or something - ARP I-401. If I remember correctly it was flagged as a tier 11. Now said that, I have a theory about this ship but we will see how it plays.

  Whoever remembers the April's fool joke last year - we got space ships. They were all flagged at tier 11 and they were a fun addition to the game. Now I doubt that WG will just copy-paste last year's joke for this year, but I think they will make some changes, some ship additions for the new ship lines and basically give us the same event but overhauled.

  So what I think is that they will add this submarine as a ship for this special battle tier of 11, just so they can test out whether they can implement submarines in the game in some way and what will be the community's opinion towards it. I see no other logical reason for why is this created and exists in the tech tree, other than that. Even though WG have stated there will be no submarines as people have a hard time already dodging DD and CV torps, I think we all know that everything is subject to change.

  Only time will tell though! :)

 

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Weekend Tester
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What if submarines were implemented in WoWs?

 

First of all, welcome to forums, very nice first. Its refreshing to see. :medal:

 

The topic has been already discussed many times and the only thing rather clear is that subs are a no.

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Beta Tester
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Happ times. I can post THE link again. :honoring:

 

The one thread you shall read before posting

 

First question. 

 

Q: Will you have submarines in the game? *Answer updated 12/08/2015 for clarity*
A: We currently have no future plans for player controlled submarines. There is multiple reasons both historically and technically that prevent submarines being added. It's a cool idea but gameplay wise they'd be very slow, very very fragile and fun for no one to play against. - That's not to say "never" as in a few years it may be technologically feasible, or may suit the game direction, however the current version of the game was balanced and designed without submarines being a factor.

 

 

 

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Thanks for the replies.

 

I am well aware that submarines are a no go on WoWs, that is why the first two words on my post are "what if".

 

I was expecting these kind of reactions, but perhaps my primary intention was not clear.

 

I wanted to see if the community would be willing to play submarines (again, in a "what if" scenario) with the mechanics and features described in my post. If not, maybe get some feedback as to what mechanics/features would be best suited to the community's tastes.

 

I guess that this was kind of against the rules, then, since the submarines case was already denied by WG and is apparently a taboo issue in the forums. For that I apologise.

 

To the moderators, please feel free to delete this thread, to avoid flame wars and misunderstandings. Again, I apologise for any trouble caused.

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Beta Tester
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Thanks for the replies.

 

I am well aware that submarines are a no go on WoWs, that is why the first two words on my post are "what if".

 

I was expecting these kind of reactions, but perhaps my primary intention was not clear.

 

I wanted to see if the community would be willing to play submarines (again, in a "what if" scenario) with the mechanics and features described in my post. If not, maybe get some feedback as to what mechanics/features would be best suited to the community's tastes.

 

I guess that this was kind of against the rules, then, since the submarines case was already denied by WG and is apparently a taboo issue in the forums. For that I apologise.

 

To the moderators, please feel free to delete this thread, to avoid flame wars and misunderstandings. Again, I apologise for any trouble caused.

 

Every two days someone comes to the forums with this exact question and frankly, people are very, very, very, very sick of it. ;-)

 

Edited by praetor_jax

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[TTT]
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Giving a sub BB top speeds would be historically inaccurate. They were usually a lot slower.

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It would be interesting, but probably in a different game. Both Silent Service and Battlefield 1942 sort of worked in a broken way, so it's not impossible. It would be an attractive feature if they could implement it. Hopefully the high tier dds would have their torps nerfed also.

 

In the 'what if' scenario, I'd like three modes - fully submerged, periscope mode and surfaced. Quick while surfaced, only very weak guns. Slow while submerged, able to torp when in periscope mode - visual cues and spottable from air, sonared from afar.

Edited by loppantorkel

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[WGP2W]
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It's really fascinating, how everybody's so adamant on the *submarines topic*, quoting the official press release and especially BB players already getting chills down to the core of their bones, when this topic is even mentioned.

 

However, keep a few facts straight, WG will eventually run out of tech trees to implement, thousands people were calling for the Kriegsmarine, we got the CAs, BBs also coming really soon, then there's this havoc surrounding Royal Navy and yes, we know, it's 99,99% the Royal Navy tech tree coming in as the next full tree, not some Australian or Italian or whatever else they're mentioning during another bogus press interview to somewhat try to remain mysterious about it, so that's all coming next.

 

But one day, they'll run out of these and they'll have a business meeting and during this business meeting, the person in charge asks the analysts about what people are calling for most and the answer will be: submarines.

 

Now, of course, they won't just come out one day and say: "Ok, in the next patch, we're adding subs.", of course not and most people just picture it this way. However, as someone nicely pointed out above, there're these fun events WG does, like adding a tier 10 Des Moines into tier 5 games and awarding prices to people, who sink it or adding space ships for a limited amount of time or even their ARP content might appear for most quite alien in its nature. So, what we might expect in the duration of next year or two is, that there'll be most likely some sort of limited-time event, which will be used to test the public's response to submarines implementation.

 

And take the official statements with a huge grain of salt, those are company men, they won't come out and spill all their business plans to the wide public and their competitors. We, players, know better than that and implementation of submarines wouldn't be that big of a deal. In fact, you can just copy & paste the DD mechanics and create a reskin for it. Fast on surface, slower under water, fragile, very few guns, short range torps, I mean really, it's not much different from a DD and the whole submersion mechanics would be solved through a consumable, which again, could be used like 2x and it'd depend on tier and nation, could be either slow submersion or a faster one, the duration of the ship remaining under water would also differ, whether the ship was allowed to use its weapon systems during submerging or while being under water, etc.

 

Bottom line is, there's not so many differences between a DD and what a submarine would play like, if it was implemented and there's a ton of money to make from it based on very little work to be done, so all in all, I'd conclude, it's coming, but not certainly before we get a full clan portal, German BBs, Russian CAs, full Royal Navy tech tree and most likely not before 2017.

 

Cheers,

~t3h'Pâr4d0x

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[-DDD-]
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hey me and a few other folk i know play steal occeen wich has got subs and loads of other ships its ftp on steam worth a look

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[GRKEN]
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Giving a sub BB top speeds would be historically inaccurate. They were usually a lot slower.

Surfaced.

And submerged their speed would make BBs looks like destroyers.

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Alpha Tester
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It's really fascinating, how everybody's so adamant on the *submarines topic*, quoting the official press release and especially BB players already getting chills down to the core of their bones, when this topic is even mentioned.

 

However, keep a few facts straight, WG will eventually run out of tech trees to implement, thousands people were calling for the Kriegsmarine, we got the CAs, BBs also coming really soon, then there's this havoc surrounding Royal Navy and yes, we know, it's 99,99% the Royal Navy tech tree coming in as the next full tree, not some Australian or Italian or whatever else they're mentioning during another bogus press interview to somewhat try to remain mysterious about it, so that's all coming next.

 

But one day, they'll run out of these and they'll have a business meeting and during this business meeting, the person in charge asks the analysts about what people are calling for most and the answer will be: submarines.

 

Now, of course, they won't just come out one day and say: "Ok, in the next patch, we're adding subs.", of course not and most people just picture it this way. However, as someone nicely pointed out above, there're these fun events WG does, like adding a tier 10 Des Moines into tier 5 games and awarding prices to people, who sink it or adding space ships for a limited amount of time or even their ARP content might appear for most quite alien in its nature. So, what we might expect in the duration of next year or two is, that there'll be most likely some sort of limited-time event, which will be used to test the public's response to submarines implementation.

 

And take the official statements with a huge grain of salt, those are company men, they won't come out and spill all their business plans to the wide public and their competitors. We, players, know better than that and implementation of submarines wouldn't be that big of a deal. In fact, you can just copy & paste the DD mechanics and create a reskin for it. Fast on surface, slower under water, fragile, very few guns, short range torps, I mean really, it's not much different from a DD and the whole submersion mechanics would be solved through a consumable, which again, could be used like 2x and it'd depend on tier and nation, could be either slow submersion or a faster one, the duration of the ship remaining under water would also differ, whether the ship was allowed to use its weapon systems during submerging or while being under water, etc.

 

Bottom line is, there's not so many differences between a DD and what a submarine would play like, if it was implemented and there's a ton of money to make from it based on very little work to be done, so all in all, I'd conclude, it's coming, but not certainly before we get a full clan portal, German BBs, Russian CAs, full Royal Navy tech tree and most likely not before 2017.

 

Cheers,

~t3h'Pâr4d0x

 

Lol... yeah, you mean IJN DD's right? Or do you think submarines would play like RU / USN or other upcomming gunboat DD's?

 

And god no, I am so ffin happy that all the official answers you can find regarding submarines are quite clear -> doesn't fit the meta, wouldn't work.  Maybe you missed this one ->

 

Submarines don't fit in WoWs, not with current meta. If they made the maps a shitton bigger and added way more players, and added more objectives on a map, and gave carriers dedicated scout planes and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and even then I could probably think of a ton of things better suited than adding submarines to this game. Submarines played no role in fleet engagements, ever. 

 

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Weekend Tester
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The current meta is about DDs being submarines and carriers scouting them.

If submarines will be released DDs would be changed to be more visible, with other/more key roles.

 

While subs would be even more concealed, they'd be slower. No, not historically... like torpedoes, fun>historical accuracy.

 

In the end money>your opinion.

My opinion is different though, because my profile is private. Or I'm aware of something obvious, I don't know.

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Alpha Tester
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The current meta is about DDs being submarines and carriers scouting them.

If submarines will be released DDs would be changed to be more visible, with other/more key roles.

 

While subs would be even more concealed, they'd be slower. No, not historically... like torpedoes, fun>historical accuracy.

 

In the end money>your opinion.

My opinion is different though, because my profile is private. Or I'm aware of something obvious, I don't know.

 

Yeah, some things are obvious. Or obviously hidden :fishpalm:

 

Money > opinion, gladly your statement about subs being the most requested 'missing feature' is pulled out of your behind :great:

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Alpha Tester
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They even admitted that in one of their recent videos, along with weather and... I think it was team battles... .p

 

I guess they were just trolling those claiming that the game is dying a bit each day the RN isn't in it :trollface: 

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Is the 'meta' that great that they shouldn't evolve it? It's a free to play game, easy to enter and easy to leave if there's a better game out there. It doesn't seem unreasonable to look forward and expect the scope to grow, either in this game or some other. Maybe it's impossible to implement subs in a good way, but if they would be, I'm fairly sure people would play that game.

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Is the 'meta' that great that they shouldn't evolve it? It's a free to play game, easy to enter and easy to leave if there's a better game out there. It doesn't seem unreasonable to look forward and expect the scope to grow, either in this game or some other. Maybe it's impossible to implement subs in a good way, but if they would be, I'm fairly sure people would play that game.

 

Sure, but there are a lot of things which would require changing prior to it being feasible, and in my opinion there are also a lot of other more important things to look at.

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Players
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This idea is amazing it would make for well balanced submarine gameplay! I think that wargaming should really look into this once more.

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This idea is amazing it would make for well balanced submarine gameplay! I think that wargaming should really look into this once more.

 

It's been considered since before the game even hit Alpha. There has never been a game version with subs and our developers are pretty adamant on the idea for now. People struggle as it is to deal with Destroyers in many situations so adding something with even less detection range and just as devastating fire power is not really a good idea. 

 

  I've read somewhere that in the ARP tech tree there has been a submarine ship or something - ARP I-401. If I remember correctly it was flagged as a tier 11. Now said that, I have a theory about this ship but we will see how it plays.

 

  Whoever remembers the April's fool joke last year - we got space ships. They were all flagged at tier 11 and they were a fun addition to the game. Now I doubt that WG will just copy-paste last year's joke for this year, but I think they will make some changes, some ship additions for the new ship lines and basically give us the same event but overhauled.

  So what I think is that they will add this submarine as a ship for this special battle tier of 11, just so they can test out whether they can implement submarines in the game in some way and what will be the community's opinion towards it. I see no other logical reason for why is this created and exists in the tech tree, other than that. Even though WG have stated there will be no submarines as people have a hard time already dodging DD and CV torps, I think we all know that everything is subject to change.

 

  Only time will tell though! :)

 

 

April Fools is nothing like last year, and the Arpeggio sub thing which has been datamined has nothing to do with testing a submarine game mode. I don't know how many times we have to tell players something for it to sink in (pun intended). We have zero plans to add Submarines into the game as a playable line of ships. 2 obvious major things people are ignoring is that it would require a total overhaul of the game design (such as maps, vehicle movement mechanics and vision/spotting) and it will require a total rebalance of all ships to support adding in a totally new class of vehicle.  It's just not going to happen guys.

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Supertester
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 I don't know how many times we have to tell players something for it to sink in (pun intended).

 

You know, it's the same as with all other conspiracy ideas... the more you deny, the more they feel encouraged that it indeed is how they think it is :D

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