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vonduus

Suggestion: Friendly torpedo warning

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I was just near-killed by a team mate. It was partly his fault, because he was behind me when he fired, but it was also partly my own fault, because I took evasive action into his torpedoes. I am pretty sure he had a clear field of fire, when he shot his torpedoes, but I dis some pretty crazy manouvres.

 

He apologized, and I said no problem, but then I got an idea:

 

I can ask for friendly support for a team mate, likewise there ought to be a function, where I point to a team mate and press a function button to send a torpedo warning, like "vonduus ahoy, fish in the water".

 

I have dealt a few friendly torpedo hits myself, because team mates suddenly change course, and it takes too much time to write a warning in chat, especially if you are in the middle of a fight. But to point your sights to a friendly ship and push a function button should be manageable. 

 

What do you think?

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[1378]
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That button already exists. It's called Common Sense and it comes pre-installed on all humans. Unfortunately, reports have come in where Common Sense has been replaces by Stupidy, such as ship firing torpedoes when there are friendlies in the direct vicinity and are at risk of becoming shark bait from said torpedoes.

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[DUBO]
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Yes, I get that lots of players are stupid, and quite a few posters too, but this is not my point. My point is that a audio warning might help keeping friendly casualties down. But perhaps you don't mind getting shot by friendlies?

 

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Beta Tester
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Not a bad idea. Having the ability to signal a friendly ship that there is a danger of friendly torpedoes is only logical. And having a function for doing so is much faster than typing it. 

 

Danger is that morons would spam if just for fun, spreading panic. 

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[1378]
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The point is that many people won't use this function because they couldn't care less. Maybe in a division it would work (I've been torped by my mate quite a few times) but on an overall level people just don't care about their steel fish.
 

It would be a handy function, for sure. But it would be like indicators on a car. Everybody has them, almost no-one uses them (bastards).

 

And CaptainNorse has a good point. Abusing this system is a viable way of disrupting people's play style. I know, you could mute this guys using the chat functionality, but then the damage might already have been done.

Edited by Nargoth73

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[WOTN]
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i agree

it can be helpful to specifically signal an ally that got friendly torps coming his way.

the warning would be immediate, clear, and he will be able to act before its too late.

good idea!

"incoming friendly torpedoes! sorry!!"

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Beta Tester
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Yes, I get that lots of players are stupid, and quite a few posters too, but this is not my point. My point is that a audio warning might help keeping friendly casualties down. But perhaps you don't mind getting shot by friendlies?

When team mate's turn could take him to path of torpedoes you simply shouldn't launch them.

That ship in first line might at any moment need to start dodging enemy torps.

 

 

That button already exists. It's called Common Sense and it comes pre-installed on all humans. Unfortunately, reports have come in where Common Sense has been replaces by Stupidy, such as ship firing torpedoes when there are friendlies in the direct vicinity and are at risk of becoming shark bait from said torpedoes.

Common sense is oxymoron.

Since getting food stopped needing any logical thinking ability common people have lost ability to think for themselves.

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I think people are getting side tracked by the whole "friendly torpedoes" thing. I absolutely agree there should be a button for "Achtung! Torps!".

 

It should work like a mix between F3 and F7:

a) if you just click the F-button for "Torps!" you will give a warning (about torpedoes) and your icon will flash on the minimap as usual, so people will know where the danger is [gr0pah: Torp alert!]

b) you target (mouse over) allied ship and click F-button "Torps!" and you would alert that specific player to incoming torps. [gr0pah: EsaTuunanen torps incoming!]

 

The first option would be great for a screening vessel in general, say a pushing DD. The second option would be when you spot inc. torps and you clearly see which ship on your team they're heading for. I can imagine this one being more useful for CV players while spotting enemy DDs (and therefore see torps already at launch). 

 

The only potential downsides would be:

i) people would call out "Torps!" when they do their moronic second line torping and then go "But I did warn you"...  On the other hand, second line torpers will always be second line torpers - the only difference is that they actually might call out a warning now.

ii) people would spam "Torps!" every.goddam.time they saw a torpedo. This is really the thing I fear most.

Edited by gr0pah
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The matter of friendly torpedoes has been debated at length elsewhere on the forum. I think there is a large (but not total) consensus that torpedoes should not be launched when there is any risk that an ally could be hit, unless

a) the ally has been notified in advance in the chat and has said okay, or

b) you are in voice contact (such as Skype) with the ally and the ally has said okay.

 

Otherwise the risk for damage to an ally is simply too great, since there is no way to be sure which way another ship might turn next.

 

In a situation where you have launched torpedoes and only then realize that they might hit an ally, a warning is clearly a good idea. But while I can see that a special quick-button for this warning might be handy, it might also promote the idea that it is perfectly acceptable to launch torpedoes with an ally in the way, just as long as you give warning in the chat. At least in my opinion, this is not okay.

 

So while a quick-button is not a bad idea in itself, I think its very presence might induce bad gameplay.

 

On the other hand, an easy way to give an easily-understood warning might save lives hit points. Good arguments for both upsides and downsides to OP:s suggestion have been given in the previous posts.

 

Maybe this is something WG could try out, and see what happens?

 

 

EDIT: By the way, vonduus: My compliments to both you and your ally for the way you handled the situation you described. He offered an apology, which you accepted. That is how it always should be, but all too seldom is: People using the chat for civil communication. :honoring:

Edited by Procrastes

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Players
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This would help. But it would not solve all situations obviously. Sometimes I make a torp run and then need to turn.....only to see there are friendly torps next to me. The torps wont kill you directly, they dont aim at you....but they kill you indirectly by not allowing you to turn. This can be prevented only by brains....if you have them you dont need button, if you dont have them nothing will help :)

 

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Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
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This has been suggested many times so I just couldn't resist.

 

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[DUBO]
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Thanks all, for your comments. Hopefully Wargaming reads these forums, and if they think it is a good idea, they can make experiments. I see the problems with people spamming, but they spam already, so...

 

Imho it could be a help to those people that take the game somewhat seriously and try to do some teamwork. 

 

Nice video, WolfGewehr, I thought for a moment that I had come up with an original idea. Seems I didn't. Oh well...

 

:)

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I'm in Benson. There's a Pensacola chasing me out of the middle islands area on the map North. I smoke and run. He follows into smoke. I torp just as I leave the middle area, and he takes a lot of torps from close range. A friendly Lo Yang who was also in the area went through the small passage linking the two middle island areas, to jump the cruiser as well, but eats my torps and dies.

 

[Now the reason he was there was because we were playing together, quite well too. We stopped their advance on C area. Then we went mid to help, because frikin fail MM gave them 3 Iowas and us 3 Amagis with only one t9 which was a Kagero who was being chased by both of their t9 Fletchers since the start of the game. But I digress. Neither of us were full health so he died in one hit. So who's fault was that? Me for launching torps in self defense? Him for trying to rush a worthy target in close quarters but at the wrong place at the wrong time? The MM's fault for forcing us into such a hectic situation?]

 

So he was too busy navigating through the islands, assessing the situation, and didn't notice my torps from behind the island, even though I launched them like 20 seconds ago. We said sorry but we still lost. But he was a champ and was fine with that. So here, I would first like to blame MM, and blame WG, fix it. Secondly, I will blame WG again, for not coming up with intuitive ways to signal for friendly torps besides hurriedly typing in chat "Care xx friendly torps". 

 

Thirdly, I will blame WG again for not including in their tutorial something about torpedo etiquette. Namely, do not launch torps if a friendly might go in that area, do not block allies who want to launch torps. Seriously, many times I've given up kills because some Russian DD sails in front of me when I'm trying to torp a target. There was once a slow [edited]fubuki who stayed right in front of me and refuses to get out of my torp zone for like a full minute even though I tried to move out of the way and tried to tell him too. Sometimes as a cruiser you are fighting tooth and nail and too busy maneuvering so you don't get citadeled (and blame WG pls again aimbot) (ok this is a bit too much lol) and you simply can't notice the torps launched from behind you by friendlies.

 

I propose an option to turn on (highly extended) friendly torp warning, with different icons for friendly torps, or friendly torp HUD of some sort, which shows on the water the paths friendly torps will pass by, via animated dotted lines with different stages of either color (opaque to white to neon red), animation (faster flicker, or faster running animation), and increasing visibility if they are in your travel path. Also an option for the person who launches the torps to instantly highlight the whole torpedo path with one animation cycle or raise its visibility level briefly, with a small notification.

Edited by KarmaQU_EU

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[DC_DK]
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How about like we get a green marking of the path to hit the enemy, we also get red marking for what will hit friendly ships at present course.

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Thirdly, I will blame WG again for not including in their tutorial something about torpedo etiquette.

 

 

One might perhaps read an implied rule of torpedo etiquette in the fact that torpedo damage to an ally is always registered as team killing damage.

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[TACHA]
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Have been torpedoed three times today by 'friends' - not one apology - all from destroyers lurking behind my battleship. Once when no enemy in range of said torpedoes though I think it was stupidity rather than deliberate team damage in each case. I do play quite aggressively as I usually drive a Warspite with short range but twice was in a Fuso. Not sure a warning would have made much difference but an apology would have been nice.

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A sincere apology makes all the difference.

 

Oddly enough, some friendly neigbourhood torpers seem to react in the opposite way. At least that's what happened to me when I sailed through two waves of friendly Minekaze torpedoes in my Kongo, taking one torpedo in the last wave and making an admittedly somewhat bitter remark in the chat. The Minekaze went absolutely bonkers and started blaming me for first staying back during half the game and then cunningly and maliciously driving in front of his torpedoes. Honestly, with some people I just don't get how they tick...

Edited by Procrastes

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[SCRUB]
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A sincere apology makes all the difference. (...)

Honestly, with some people I just don't get how they tick...

 

LOL. Counterclockwise obviously. :)

Sincere apology indeed makes all the difference, but even greater one is common sense that tells you not to place your torps in front of an ally ship.

 

Personally, with exception of like literally couple of times (at least half of them unfortunately deliberate) never had a problem with friendly torps. After couple of matches in destroyers japanese cruisers kind of know what to expect, and have a nasty habit of checking minimap to track what is going on.

 

But agree that some kind of warning could be useful for friendly players and I most certainly like the idea b) gr0pah suggested:

 

b) you target (mouse over) allied ship and click F-button "Torps!" and you would alert that specific player to incoming torps. [gr0pah: EsaTuunanen torps incoming!]

 

I fear in any other shape or form it might lead to overuse and chaos on the minimap.

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Alpha Tester
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I was just near-killed by a team mate. It was partly his fault, because he was behind me when he fired, but it was also partly my own fault, because I took evasive action into his torpedoes. I am pretty sure he had a clear field of fire, when he shot his torpedoes, but I dis some pretty crazy manouvres.

 

He apologized, and I said no problem, but then I got an idea:

 

I can ask for friendly support for a team mate, likewise there ought to be a function, where I point to a team mate and press a function button to send a torpedo warning, like "vonduus ahoy, fish in the water".

 

I have dealt a few friendly torpedo hits myself, because team mates suddenly change course, and it takes too much time to write a warning in chat, especially if you are in the middle of a fight. But to point your sights to a friendly ship and push a function button should be manageable. 

 

What do you think?

 

No.

 

It wasn't your fault for taking evasive action, that is what you do when on the front line. It was 100% the fault of the one behind you firing torps from second line.

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Alpha Tester, Players, In AlfaTesters, Weekend Tester
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I can remember playing once in the Tier IV Soviet DD, and I was passing a Friendly DD who then, after a couple of seconds, launched a Salvo from all his torpedo tubes. For reference this was a Japanese Tier 5 Destroyer, and every Torpedo impacted the Port side, enough to kill my tin can at least 6 times over.

Edited by Commodore_Ahsoka_Tano

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I dislike the suggestion, because it would encourage more people to fire their torps from second line and then just press the button to warn the person in the path of the torpedoes. If that person gets hit after he had been warned it's his own fault, right? I've had to show my broadside often enough while dodging friendly torps and I wouldn't want to do it even more often in the future.

 

Heck, often I just don't dodge friendly torps because I'm busy angling my armor, dodging hostile torpedoes and/or watching out for incoming torp bombers. In these cases simply taking the friendly torpedoes does less damage than dodging it.

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[CG]
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Second line torpedoes are an issue that's been talked about over and over, its an issue but its not the issue at hand.

 

Is there a need for a torps spotted alert. I can see uses for it.

 

Examples. 

Warning a friendly that your about to launch.

Warning the team that there are incoming enemy torps.

 

Personally i'd like to see a custom broadcast button. However I can also see that quickly being abused.

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