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VC381

How do I Fuso?

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OK, I have won 3 out of 12 games so far with this ship and I'm close to giving up. I get OK-ish damage numbers (55k average over those first 12 games) but I feel completely useless. It's frustrating as hell to play and I feel nothing I do makes a difference to the outcome of the battle. In my Kongo I was king (70% win rate despite mediocre average damage) but Fuso? I just can't make it work. The way I feel, unless cruisers present their broadside to you, you're not killing anything. The spread makes long range fire a waste of time, and the armor pen on the AP shells feels like unless you get perfect 90 degree broadside shots they just bounce. Just now I had a game where I was at 5km range (!?) to a stationary North Carolina. OK he's Tier 8, but not known for good belt armor. Salvo after salvo, 8 to 10 hits on the citadel area, 1k damage. In some games I spammed HE and actually did moderately better. The flip-side is... everything will citadel you in return, at any range, any angle, bow, stern, doesn't matter, you take tons of damage. OK this has turned into a big rant but I a have not yet been THIS disappointed by a ship in this game, especially since everyone goes on about how much of a monster it is. Maybe it doesn't suit me, but I just don't get it. Help? :(

 

EDIT: forgot to say, this isn't a stock issue since I used Free XP on the B hull and propulsion module before starting to play the ship.

Edited by VC381

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North Carolina has actually good belt - only inferior to Montana and same as Iowa. Complainers about NC belt forget that they get shot at with stronger shells, that generally penetrate any unangled BB. But NC belt is just enough vs Fusos guns. Still its possible to citadel her, and its possible to bounce NC shells with right angling. Honestly it feels like just "growing pains" - people you face are btter and you need time to learn/adjust. Fuso is very solid t6 BB - maybe the best (though NM is a very strong ship too). 

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North Carolina has actually good belt - only inferior to Montana and same as Iowa. Complainers about NC belt forget that they get shot at with stronger shells, that generally penetrate any unangled BB. But NC belt is just enough vs Fusos guns. Still its possible to citadel her, and its possible to bounce NC shells with right angling. Honestly it feels like just "growing pains" - people you face are btter and you need time to learn/adjust. Fuso is very solid t6 BB - maybe the best (though NM is a very strong ship too). 

 

Yeah, there is of course on element of learning to play better as I go up the tiers but it's not just the NCs when I get up-tiered. Basically the only BB I can reliably citadel is a Kongo or another Fuso, everything else bounces or at least leaves me at the mercy of the RNG despite the 12 shells. I feel if both me and my opponent are angling and trading shots I'm going to lose that duel.

 

I'm also used to doing some stupid things in my Kongo and getting away with it because of the speed, I've not actually played a "slow" BB (and I realise Fuso is faster than the US ones but still) so I'm a bit lost as to where on the map I should be going and how to deal with the fact I can't be somewhere else at short notice.

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The Fuso is not all about citadels. With great range, lots of guns and a solid 28 sec reload I just tend to fire my guns almost all game long. I get within range of a target and then close in, firing my guns as soon as they reload 90% of the time. This way means you will almost always do some damage with each salvo.

 

As for speed, it is not exactly slow, and your range means you can still "keep up" with a lot of your targets. But as with all BB's, 10-15 km is the sweet spot range, where your armor can still shrug off hits and your guns have optimal performance.

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OK, I have won 3 out of 12 games so far with this ship and I'm close to giving up. I get OK-ish damage numbers (55k average over those first 12 games) but I feel completely useless. It's frustrating as hell to play and I feel nothing I do makes a difference to the outcome of the battle. In my Kongo I was king (70% win rate despite mediocre average damage) but Fuso? I just can't make it work. The way I feel, unless cruisers present their broadside to you, you're not killing anything. The spread makes long range fire a waste of time, and the armor pen on the AP shells feels like unless you get perfect 90 degree broadside shots they just bounce. Just now I had a game where I was at 5km range (!?) to a stationary North Carolina. OK he's Tier 8, but not known for good belt armor. Salvo after salvo, 8 to 10 hits on the citadel area, 1k damage. In some games I spammed HE and actually did moderately better. The flip-side is... everything will citadel you in return, at any range, any angle, bow, stern, doesn't matter, you take tons of damage. OK this has turned into a big rant but I a have not yet been THIS disappointed by a ship in this game, especially since everyone goes on about how much of a monster it is. Maybe it doesn't suit me, but I just don't get it. Help? :(

 

EDIT: forgot to say, this isn't a stock issue since I used Free XP on the B hull and propulsion module before starting to play the ship.

 

General rule of thumb is not to aim for US BB citadel areas. They use an armour layout called 'all or nothing', so their citadel is VERY heavily armoured and the front and rear ends of the ship are very badly armoured. So aim for the front and aft turret areas, you will have a better chance of getting a citadel there by hitting near the magazine area, but also you have a chance to do heavy damage even when you don't citadel. 

 

Also don't be afraid to load HE versus other battleships if you don't have a good shot or focus on something else.

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Personally I play it as a sniper. It's definately no brawler and you will lose to the New Mex for example. But when at almost max range, you shells will come almost right from the top penetrating the deck. Of course the spread will make a gamble out of this tactic, but I installed the accuracy module to incease that. Other than that I try to pick in the cruisers and lower BBs first, because you can citadel them rather easy, especially given the amount of shells in each salvo.

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oneshot cruisers (this is half serious advice!)

 

fuso is my favorite battleship.

its just so much fun driving around in a HUGE floating shotgun.

 

get all the upgrades

captain doesnt matter too much if you keep the captain in the fuso i'd get vigilance and superintendant befor taking any tier 4 or 5 skills cause your aa and secondaries are meh and youre spotted by a blind man in a row boat anyway.

 

learn how to aim with it keep angled if possible dont expose your huge citadell to much and focus on killing cruisers then battleships

while youre not the most accurate  if aimed well youre many shells will give you reliable citadels! (thanks to rngesus i managed to oneshot 3 ca's in a single game with the mighty fuso)

 

PS.: the stock hull sucks bigtime

 

 

 

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I really dont like my Fuso. Its always been a struggle to keep playing it. Dont know why. I only keep it to get to the Nagato one day.

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Fusou is easily the most enjoyable BB I've been playing so far and that's a big compliment coming from the thoroughly enjoyable Kongou.

 

The key to it is to get your formidable broadside to work. This ship excells at medium range engagements, so anything between 10km to 16km. The guns aren't too accurate even with the modification that increases the main battery accuracy but you have six double turrets that can simply saturate the target. If you can get yourself within that distance sweetspot and angle yourself against any dangerous ships (the turret layout lets you bring all turrets to bear and still maintain a solid angle) and then anything within your cone of fire is just going to meet a wall of shells every 28 seconds.

 

The big no-no for this ship is to hang back. Even though you have 19.8km range with the B hull (21.8km with the GFCS upgrade, though I personally don't have it researched even though I easily could, I just don't need it) at that range you won't hit consistently. The range is good for taking potshots at distant targets if you have nothing else to shoot at, but that's all you should expect. If people hang back at maximum range to try and snipe with the Fusou (or any BB to be perfectly honest), they are doing it wrong, just plain wrong.

Likewise, the Fusou isn't a good brawler despite what the initial impression might look like (all these guns, ALL THESE GUNS!!!), but your armour WILL get penetrated if you show a broadside and within 10km BB shells will start to smash even through angled armour, so your aim should be to control the engagement, keep your flanks clear and keep enemy ships within medium distances where you can just pump out obscene amounts of shells at targets.

 

 

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I really dont like my Fuso. Its always been a struggle to keep playing it. Dont know why. I only keep it to get to the Nagato one day.

 

while i heard much good about the nagato it was a huge let down after the fuso so i sold it  in faor of the amagi but i wouldnt ever think of selling the fuso.

while i understand there are personal preferences i'd recomend you should learn the ship if youre doing constantly bad in the fuso youre doing something wrong.

its the ship with  huge carry potential in low tier rankeds, and verry good in normal games.

 

like i posted earlier  focus on killing cruisers quickly and aim for that ~13-15km range  to your targets thats where you have the edge if your aim is good.

only shoot atr bbs if you dont have a good shot at any cruiser!

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OK, I have won 3 out of 12 games so far with this ship and I'm close to giving up. I get OK-ish damage numbers (55k average over those first 12 games) but I feel completely useless. It's frustrating as hell to play and I feel nothing I do makes a difference to the outcome of the battle. In my Kongo I was king (70% win rate despite mediocre average damage) but Fuso? I just can't make it work. The way I feel, unless cruisers present their broadside to you, you're not killing anything. The spread makes long range fire a waste of time, and the armor pen on the AP shells feels like unless you get perfect 90 degree broadside shots they just bounce. Just now I had a game where I was at 5km range (!?) to a stationary North Carolina. OK he's Tier 8, but not known for good belt armor. Salvo after salvo, 8 to 10 hits on the citadel area, 1k damage. In some games I spammed HE and actually did moderately better. The flip-side is... everything will citadel you in return, at any range, any angle, bow, stern, doesn't matter, you take tons of damage. OK this has turned into a big rant but I a have not yet been THIS disappointed by a ship in this game, especially since everyone goes on about how much of a monster it is. Maybe it doesn't suit me, but I just don't get it. Help? :(

 

EDIT: forgot to say, this isn't a stock issue since I used Free XP on the B hull and propulsion module before starting to play the ship.

 

#1: kill more of them, and you will help the outcome of the battle

#2:lol no, you were not a king, you were carried to a win...  200k average dmg would make you a king... 40k average dmg doesnt even go trough 1:1 of your ship hp ratio...

#3 yes you can, you have 12 guns. learn to use them... (hint, shoot everything that shows broadside, citadel other BBs from 20km distance like np)

#4 more likely they will overpenatrate instead of bouncing...

#5 5km away from NC and you cant deal dmg to him? change your aim...

#6 nope, everything will citadel you if you show broadside... when you are angling, you are as tough to kill as any other BB out there

 

tldr: just play more and learn the ship better...

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Well, sounds like I'm trying to do the right thing some of the time, sometime not. I'm definitely not sniping, I gave up on that tactic back with the Myogi. Quite the opposite, whenever I feel I'm not doing enough damage I just close the range further, so I end up in a lot of close (I guess too close) fights. I guess I'm also fighting battleships too much instead of cruisers, which is strange because I always made cruiser killing my priority in the Kongo. Again I just feel the ship isn't fast enough or agile enough to get into, and stay in, that sweet spot range especially against cruisers, so you're basically relying on them being stupid and coming to you (the detection range doesn't help). That and battleships are just playing so passive these days I get no support. I realise this is my fault if I rush ahead, but again the Kongo can get away with pushing/rushing with a couple of cruisers helping, the Fuso it seems can't.

 

Anyway thanks for the tips, I'll keep trying, because I do eventually want the Nagato and Amagi, see if I can get used to it.

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Well, sounds like I'm trying to do the right thing some of the time, sometime not. I'm definitely not sniping, I gave up on that tactic back with the Myogi. Quite the opposite, whenever I feel I'm not doing enough damage I just close the range further, so I end up in a lot of close (I guess too close) fights. I guess I'm also fighting battleships too much instead of cruisers, which is strange because I always made cruiser killing my priority in the Kongo. Again I just feel the ship isn't fast enough or agile enough to get into, and stay in, that sweet spot range especially against cruisers, so you're basically relying on them being stupid and coming to you (the detection range doesn't help). That and battleships are just playing so passive these days I get no support. I realise this is my fault if I rush ahead, but again the Kongo can get away with pushing/rushing with a couple of cruisers helping, the Fuso it seems can't.

 

Anyway thanks for the tips, I'll keep trying, because I do eventually want the Nagato and Amagi, see if I can get used to it.

 

The single most important skill for BBs as I see it is positioning. You need to be were you can be most effective, otherwise you're just slumbering behind everyone without really bringing your goods to the table.

 

If you can put the Fusou where she belongs, basically your entire firing arc the side which your turrets are pointing at is a killing ground. Don't try to chase enemies, put yourself someplace where they are forced to come to you. Thankfully the Fusou, whilst not fast, is just quick enough to allow you to react to shifts in the battle, unlike some other BBs (looking at you USN tier 4-7).

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#2:lol no, you were not a king, you were carried to a win...  200k average dmg would make you a king... 40k average dmg doesnt even go trough 1:1 of your ship hp ratio...

 

 

while its a bit off topic i want to say this logic is deeply flawed

 

if you kill 3x DD'S in a battleship you land below 1:1 hp to damage but you most certainly won your team a huge advantage.

since your pray should be cruisers  you end up doing lower average damage than if you focus on killing battleships.

 

a bad player mindlessly shooting battleships can have a higher average dmg than a good player shooting at cruisers (less hp to kill and harder to hit)

 

40k av dmg is poor but how poor it is, is determined by how you did it

if you get close to 1:1 shooting and killing cruisers i am sure you end up with a winrate good above 50%

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while its a bit off topic i want to say this logic is deeply flawed

 

if you kill 3x DD'S in a battleship you land below 1:1 hp to damage but you most certainly won your team a huge advantage.

since your pray should be cruisers  you end up doing lower average damage than if you focus on killing battleships.

 

a bad player mindlessly shooting battleships can have a higher average dmg than a good player shooting at cruisers (less hp to kill and harder to hit)

 

40k av dmg is poor but how poor it is, is determined by how you did it

if you get close to 1:1 shooting and killing cruisers i am sure you end up with a winrate good above 50%

 

Fine, I got a bit cocky about my Kongo exploits but I wasn't refering to my damage. I meant that when I play it, I feel like I can put myself somewhere useful and even if I don't get great damage I feel the flank I rush down tends to go in my teams favor just because enemy cruisers freak out that there's a Kongo leading the charge and crossing their T and start running, while if you're tanking them and occasionally deleting one, your cruisers are more confident and left alone to deal their damage more easily. Basically what I meant is, doing that feels awesome! I'm not getting the same feeling when playing the Fuso even if my damage is better.

 

BTW two games just now, first one I killed an enemy Fuso and a Colorado (not 100 to 0 but ~50k total damage), mostly because I was too far down one flank before I realised there were no cruisers there but I thought I may as well. I look up to find I am last man standing, with salvos from another Colorado and a Nagato crashing down, and a torp wall from a Minekaze... Second game I took 90% of a Furutaka's health off in one salvo (he actually accused me of aim botting, I take pride in that) then sank an Omaha... before finding myself alone on my half (strait map) and ganged up on by two carriers and a Warspite. More losses to my Fuso record... :(

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while its a bit off topic i want to say this logic is deeply flawed

 

if you kill 3x DD'S in a battleship you land below 1:1 hp to damage but you most certainly won your team a huge advantage.

since your pray should be cruisers  you end up doing lower average damage than if you focus on killing battleships.

 

a bad player mindlessly shooting battleships can have a higher average dmg than a good player shooting at cruisers (less hp to kill and harder to hit)

 

40k av dmg is poor but how poor it is, is determined by how you did it

if you get close to 1:1 shooting and killing cruisers i am sure you end up with a winrate good above 50%

 

You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

 

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More losses to my Fuso record... :(

 

dont worry too much about your winrate you need several hundred games(per hull) on a ship to start telling the difference between ships

if you keep playing the fuso improving your aim  and positioning im confident you get to a good winrate after 100 games

(although somtimes you dont, i still have statisic anomalies on several hulls while im a bit above average player i still got some good hulls with abysmal 40% while on my favotite hulls i get a steady 55-68%)

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while its a bit off topic i want to say this logic is deeply flawed

 

if you kill 3x DD'S in a battleship you land below 1:1 hp to damage but you most certainly won your team a huge advantage.

since your pray should be cruisers  you end up doing lower average damage than if you focus on killing battleships.

 

a bad player mindlessly shooting battleships can have a higher average dmg than a good player shooting at cruisers (less hp to kill and harder to hit)

 

40k av dmg is poor but how poor it is, is determined by how you did it

if you get close to 1:1 shooting and killing cruisers i am sure you end up with a winrate good above 50%

 

i might have been too "pushy" with my post, but thats because of his flawed logic, and basicly a rant instead of asking a proper question on how to improve.

while that logic might seem flawed, its actually not really "deeply flawed" as you called it.

"a bad player mindlessly shooting battleships" will still "mindlessly" deal 100k dmg and greatly contribute to the victory... a "good player shooting at cruisers" shouldnt have a problem deleting 2 cruisers in a game, thus netting more then 40k dmg on average... you see my point now?

cruisers in random battles arent harder to kill, they are your prey, together with battleships... the fact is, you shouldnt be shooting at destroyers 90% of time, you should be supporting your cruisers while they are shooting at DDS...

and with your 20km range on kongo/fuso, there is no freaking way you cant get a good target to shoot at (at least at first 10 minutes of the game, later on you might find yourself on opposite edge of the map, but thats the different story)...

so yea, average damage does show a lot of how much you contributed to the game, since your main job as a battleship IS to deal damage (a lots of damage)...

 

tldr: your average dmg shows a lot more then your victory % (at least when playing BBs)

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[...]

and with your 20km range on kongo/fuso, there is no freaking way you cant get a good target to shoot at (at least at first 10 minutes of the game, later on you might find yourself on opposite edge of the map, but thats the different story)...

so yea, average damage does show a lot of how much you contributed to the game, since your main job as a battleship IS to deal damage (a lots of damage)...

 

tldr: your average dmg shows a lot more then your victory % (at least when playing BBs)

 

To be honest, anything past ~17km is a lottery because the shell dispersion can (and mostly will) just bracket a ship left, right and sideways without landing a single shell. Plus any captain who knows there's a long range BB with line of sight on him should wiggle and with 11+ seconds shell flight time, even minor course changes can completely throw off your aim.

 

In fact I didn't even research the GFCS upgrade despite comfortably sitting at 30k XP on my Fusou right now, because I don't feel I need more than 19.8km, plus I always have the spotter airplane in the back of my hand.

 

And I would also add to the point about a BB's mission:

Imo it's not just primarily about dealing damage. Being an active presence in the attack (or defense) is equally, if not sometimes more, important! BBs are a strong deterrent, any cruiser who's got some experience has a healthy respect for BBs and as such your mere presence will slow them down as they are more cautious. Also any cruiser worth his salt will angle his ship towards you, which typically means that he's sacrificing his own damage output as he can't bring any rear turrets to bear against at least some of your own allies, so you reduce their total combat effectiveness just by being a potential threat.

 

That together with dishing out the damage are the two primary roles that I think a battleship player has to fulfill.

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tldr: your average dmg shows a lot more then your victory % (at least when playing BBs)

Here our opinions differ; because I couldn't disagree more :)

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To be honest, anything past ~17km is a lottery because the shell dispersion can (and mostly will) just bracket a ship left, right and sideways without landing a single shell. Plus any captain who knows there's a long range BB with line of sight on him should wiggle and with 11+ seconds shell flight time, even minor course changes can completely throw off your aim.

 

In fact I didn't even research the GFCS upgrade despite comfortably sitting at 30k XP on my Fusou right now, because I don't feel I need more than 19.8km, plus I always have the spotter airplane in the back of my hand.

 

And I would also add to the point about a BB's mission:

Imo it's not just primarily about dealing damage. Being an active presence in the attack (or defense) is equally, if not sometimes more, important! BBs are a strong deterrent, any cruiser who's got some experience has a healthy respect for BBs and as such your mere presence will slow them down as they are more cautious. Also any cruiser worth his salt will angle his ship towards you, which typically means that he's sacrificing his own damage output as he can't bring any rear turrets to bear against at least some of your own allies, so you reduce their total combat effectiveness just by being a potential threat.

 

That together with dishing out the damage are the two primary roles that I think a battleship player has to fulfill.

 

okokok, im terribly sorry, its not 20km, its 19.8km... god damn, how could i make such a stupid mistake...

and where did you read the part where i said that you SHOULD NOT be part of the combat? making a presence? not being a potential threat?

stop pulling things out of your [edited], and actually read what i've said before trying to argue about something i never mentioned...

i just said that with your huge range, there is NO WAY that you dont have a good target to shoot at, so you HAVE TO shoot at the guy that is obvious of your threat and is doing everything possible to minimize your damage...

you know what you can do at that point? switch targets... shoot that cruiser/bb thats figting your ally, dodging his fire, angling against him, and giving you full broadside... THATS why i said you have your huge range to utilize that... you dont have to close up to 14km to be effective as mid range cruisers have to... you have a lot bigger "playground" aka, a lot more targets, and should capitalise on that one thats not paying attention to you/showing you broadside... (thats basicly why i hate playing ocean as a cruiser, because on higher tiers, there is always some BB just waiting for you to make a mistake and will snipe you from 18km away, dropping half of your hp in one salvo)

 

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Here our opinions differ; because I couldn't disagree more :)

 

so you want me to actually belive that a guy thats is afking every game, but his team carries him, so he has 0 avg dmg and 60% WR is a better player then a guy thats dealing 100k avg dmg per game, but is in a team full of [edited]and has 40% of victories?

if you say so...

(why i added at least when playing BBs, is because DDS can spot/cap, hunt other DDs, etc, cruisers can support other ships etc... and as a BB, you mainly arent capping, hunting dds bla bla bla, ur tanking and dealing dmg)

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so you want me to actually belive that a guy thats is afking every game, but his team carries him, so he has 0 avg dmg and 60% WR is a better player then a guy thats dealing 100k avg dmg per game, but is in a team full of [edited]and has 40% of victories?

if you say so...

Given an adequate sample size, your scenario is extremely improbable. Also, what you are saying is far from what I'm positing; your're assigning me a strawman argument. Please don't.

 

Yes a person who deals 100k dmg every game is better than someone who afk every game. You're just being silly trying to pretend I suggested otherwise. But someone who over +100 games have a WR of 60% and 75k dmg is most likely better than someone with 40% WR and 100k dmg. It doesn't matter what ship class you are in: WR is basically the only result that matters given enough games.

 

(I wish Slargmann was here, he's much better at brute force explanations..)

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Given an adequate sample size, your scenario is extremely improbable. Also, what you are saying is far from what I'm positing; your're assigning me a strawman argument. Please don't.

 

Yes a person who deals 100k dmg every game is better than someone who afk every game. You're just being silly trying to pretend I suggested otherwise. But someone who over +100 games have a WR of 60% and 75k dmg is most likely better than someone with 40% WR and 100k dmg. It doesn't matter what ship class you are in: WR is basically the only result that matters given enough games.

 

(I wish Slargmann was here, he's much better at brute force explanations..)

 

in solo games, i couldn't agree more...

in team games (current WoW team games), i couldn't agree more...

in random battles, where you heavily depend on 11 random people on your team, no... i simply cannot agree with that...

we do agree that there is more into this game then dealing damage... but WR deffinently is not a thing that shows what you've done across all that games.

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okokok, im terribly sorry, its not 20km, its 19.8km... god damn, how could i make such a stupid mistake...

and where did you read the part where i said that you SHOULD NOT be part of the combat? making a presence? not being a potential threat?

stop pulling things out of your [edited], and actually read what i've said before trying to argue about something i never mentioned...

i just said that with your huge range, there is NO WAY that you dont have a good target to shoot at, so you HAVE TO shoot at the guy that is obvious of your threat and is doing everything possible to minimize your damage...

you know what you can do at that point? switch targets... shoot that cruiser/bb thats figting your ally, dodging his fire, angling against him, and giving you full broadside... THATS why i said you have your huge range to utilize that... you dont have to close up to 14km to be effective as mid range cruisers have to... you have a lot bigger "playground" aka, a lot more targets, and should capitalise on that one thats not paying attention to you/showing you broadside... (thats basicly why i hate playing ocean as a cruiser, because on higher tiers, there is always some BB just waiting for you to make a mistake and will snipe you from 18km away, dropping half of your hp in one salvo)

 

 

Placate your mammaries, dude. I was expanding on your argument and giving my opinion on the effective range. And that snippet with the exact range wasn't me deriding you for getting something wrong, I was merely giving my own opinion on it and simply gave the range without the GFCS upgrade as it tied to my experience I was commenting on.

 

At no point during my comment was I being argumentative so I have no clue why you'd get so antagonistic. Just because I'm having a slightly different opinion on a matter and chose to elaborate doesn't mean I'm trying to pull your points through the mud.

 

Chill!

Edited by Aotearas

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