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Astalano

Cruisers refusing to screen

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I can't count how many times the cruisers speed off by themselves, completely leave a flank open which means invisible DDs can sneak in and drop torpedos at point blank range or leave you with no AA cover so you get focused down by torpedo-spamming CVs. 

 

Can't we have like a spotting system or something, whereby if a cruiser is closest to the enemy and helps its own ships, especially BBs, to deal damage to the enemy by acting as a screen, it gets exp for doing so?

 

What incentive is there for BBs to be aggressive if all that means is that the rest of your team just runs away at the first sign of trouble? Then cruiser captains complain about BB's sniping at the back of the map, of course.

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Beta Tester
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You seem to be playing a different game where CAs have some actual ability to "screen".

 

Also, you seem to be incredibly arrogant and selfish to assume that you're somehow more important so it's fine to have them run in front.

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You seem to be playing a different game where CAs have some actual ability to "screen".

 

Also, you seem to be incredibly arrogant and selfish to assume that you're somehow more important so it's fine to have them run in front.

 

Yeah, instead what they do is go in and die in roughly 2 minutes or better yet, hang back behind the battleships where they can't return fire.

 

GENIUS. 

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[ODB]
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The OP is also assuming that such a thing as teamwork exists in a random match where:

  • Everyone speaks different languages and are of different ages and experiences
  • Some people so stupid that even a neanderthal would raise his eyebrows
  • A reward system does not exist for 'covering' other players
  • Cruisers are made of stalinium
  • Other players should willingly sacrifice themselves for his benefit

 

We all know how it should work as per the textbook, but if you want coordination go to team battles or wait for ranked battles - it's not perfect there but at least it's better.

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Yeah, instead what they do is go in and die in roughly 2 minutes or better yet, hang back behind the battleships where they can't return fire.

 

GENIUS. 

 

Nice strawman. Also the reason why they die early is because they think they can do what you suggest in your op.

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 but if you want coordination go to team battles or wait for ranked battles - it's not perfect there but at least it's better.

 

you obviously didnt play enough ranked battles :trollface:
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I can't count how many times the cruisers speed off by themselves, completely leave a flank open which means invisible DDs can sneak in and drop torpedos at point blank range or leave you with no AA cover so you get focused down by torpedo-spamming CVs. 

 

Can't we have like a spotting system or something, whereby if a cruiser is closest to the enemy and helps its own ships, especially BBs, to deal damage to the enemy by acting as a screen, it gets exp for doing so?

 

What incentive is there for BBs to be aggressive if all that means is that the rest of your team just runs away at the first sign of trouble? Then cruiser captains complain about BB's sniping at the back of the map, of course.

Spotting system won't work because then they have to be far ahead of you to spot, not on your side screening you. That will make it even worse

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you obviously didnt play enough ranked battles :trollface:

 

yeah, when I got my omaha I didnt get anything and just charged into battle leeroy jenkins style. I probably caused a lot of my teams to lose.. soooo yeahhh.

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[THESO]
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I can't count how many times the cruisers speed off by themselves, completely leave a flank open which means invisible DDs can sneak in and drop torpedos at point blank range or leave you with no AA cover so you get focused down by torpedo-spamming CVs. 

 

Can't we have like a spotting system or something, whereby if a cruiser is closest to the enemy and helps its own ships, especially BBs, to deal damage to the enemy by acting as a screen, it gets exp for doing so?

 

What incentive is there for BBs to be aggressive if all that means is that the rest of your team just runs away at the first sign of trouble? Then cruiser captains complain about BB's sniping at the back of the map, of course.

 

There are different stages of engagement, I will gladly run in front of you but only AFTER enemy DD's have been lit up by friendly DD's or CV and taken care off. Since, if not, I will have to turn to avoid torpedo's 100% of the games, and I rather not give broadsides to enemy BB's at close ranges. 

 

Sorry, I just don't want to die just because you think I should.

 

And before you go off about me not being a team players, I most certainly am. And I do reasonably well at the same time.

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Most of the BBs I see are very far back and passive, no matter how far in front their CAs are.

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Beta Tester
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If a BB-player asks I screen him. But I ecxpect him to push forward (if feasible) and not to snipe from behind.

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There are different stages of engagement, I will gladly run in front of you but only AFTER enemy DD's have been lit up by friendly DD's or CV and taken care off. Since, if not, I will have to turn to avoid torpedo's 100% of the games, and I rather not give broadsides to enemy BB's at close ranges. 

 

Sorry, I just don't want to die just because you think I should.

 

And before you go off about me not being a team players, I most certainly am. And I do reasonably well at the same time.

 

Cruisers are much more able to deal with incoming torpedos than BBs. It makes far more sense for a cruiser to be even just 1 or  2km in front of the BB, providing anti air, spotting destroyers, spotting torpedos, being a nuisance in general, giving the BB breathing space to focus down enemy BBs and exposed cruisers. 

 

If you sit behind the BB  or you rush forward and die all you're doing is making it more difficult for your team to win. 

 

Cruisers can pour through gaps when the enemy side is weak enough. 

 

As a BB I'm not going to be a tank who blindly rushes in and eats all the torps because the CLs and CAs are having a picnic behind me or have been sunk in the first few minutes of the match. 

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Cruisers are much more able to deal with incoming torpedos than BBs. It makes far more sense for a cruiser to be even just 1 or  2km in front of the BB, providing anti air, spotting destroyers, spotting torpedos, being a nuisance in general, giving the BB breathing space to focus down enemy BBs and exposed cruisers. 

 

If you sit behind the BB  or you rush forward and die all you're doing is making it more difficult for your team to win. 

 

Cruisers can pour through gaps when the enemy side is weak enough. 

 

As a BB I'm not going to be a tank who blindly rushes in and eats all the torps because the CLs and CAs are having a picnic behind me or have been sunk in the first few minutes of the match. 

as a BB. at least in my kongo. I do like to charge in infront of anybody because I am pretty much god in the ARP kongo, I dont need a supergravity cannon or a supergravity ego to win (although maybe I do have that last one XD) I am able to bounce shots effectively and evade torpedos because... y'know its a fast frickin battleship! turns like a DD and deliver crippling broadsides at ranges the cruisers dont get for another three tiers

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I think spotting rewards are a great idea. It incentivizes the behavior that OP is asking for. Destroyers spotting for cruisers, and so on.

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Spotting system won't work because then they have to be far ahead of you to spot, not on your side screening you. That will make it even worse

 

Naval formations typically work like so:

 

You have an ASW screen (DDs)

 

Then an AA screen (CLs and CAs)

 

Then you have your capital ships (BBs and CVs)

 

Now, this is useful for WOWS as well. Cruisers and destroyers are hard to hit at range but battleships and carriers are not, so they need protection. Now, carriers play a different role than historically so you only really need to screen battleships to make your team effective. It's about spotting enemies, spotting torpedos and making it more difficult for enemy planes to come in unscathed. Destroyers play their roles fine because they're so stealthy, but cruisers are not, so you get very weird plays by cruisers, which leaves battleships completely exposed for no reason.

 

 

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Cruisers past tier 6 are a joke and are not capable of anything other than shooting from stealth or at targets not looking at them.

 

Anything else and they have to scramble to avoid shells/torps/planes which heavily impedes shooting.

 

 

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Naval formations typically work like so:

 

You have an ASW screen (DDs)

 

Then an AA screen (CLs and CAs)

 

Then you have your capital ships (BBs and CVs)

 

Now, this is useful for WOWS as well. Cruisers and destroyers are hard to hit at range but battleships and carriers are not, so they need protection. Now, carriers play a different role than historically so you only really need to screen battleships to make your team effective. It's about spotting enemies, spotting torpedos and making it more difficult for enemy planes to come in unscathed. Destroyers play their roles fine because they're so stealthy, but cruisers are not, so you get very weird plays by cruisers, which leaves battleships completely exposed for no reason.

 

 

Yes it's true. I totally agree with you. Not just in front but also on the side. That would be an ideal team. What i meant is that if there was a spotting rewards system and if cruisers hypothetically tried to benefit from it, they would have to be even further, towards the enemy. As a result the BBs would be left alone and unprotected more often

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[THESO]
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Naval formations typically work like so:

 

You have an ASW screen (DDs)

 

Then an AA screen (CLs and CAs)

 

Then you have your capital ships (BBs and CVs)

 

Now, this is useful for WOWS as well. Cruisers and destroyers are hard to hit at range but battleships and carriers are not, so they need protection. Now, carriers play a different role than historically so you only really need to screen battleships to make your team effective. It's about spotting enemies, spotting torpedos and making it more difficult for enemy planes to come in unscathed. Destroyers play their roles fine because they're so stealthy, but cruisers are not, so you get very weird plays by cruisers, which leaves battleships completely exposed for no reason.

 

 

 

I play IJN CA's, my role is not BB AAA escort ( though I can panic bombers if needed ). I will 'screen', but only if I have DD's to support ( my role as IJN CA ). Without advanced DD's even my 9.1km detection radius on Atago will not help against enemy DD's unless they are total morons. And if I am ahead, and there is a DD which torps me, it causes me to turn giving nice flat broadside to enemy BB's. So again, sorry but I don't want to die just because you think it's something I should do.

 

If there are allied DD's in play, you wouldn't even have to ask me to 'screen' you because me supporting the DD's already means I'm probably way way ahead of you.

 

------- disclaimer -------

 

The reason I responded as such is because I might have wrongly assumed you don't understand strategic situations in the game, and hence are one of those BB's which pushes into superior or badly matched groups of enemies instead of playing tactically sound which in times might mean you play defensive not offensive. Maybe you do understand the above and you're just a bit mad to all the 'casual' players which even in situations which would benefit from 'proper screening' still hide behind their BB's. I know this, I had one last night. Allied ARP Myoko was 4km behind my Nagato with enemy DD's right in front of me... and needed even 2 reminders his job is to shoot the darn DD ( especially if already spotted by me ) and not continue to try and shoot at max range enemy CA. So yes, there are fail players. But not everyone plays like that.

 

The problem is, and I fully understand this, the ARP Myoko might have thought I was some imbecile pushing his BB into a torp wall to just die and blame him. The downside of not having XVM, he might have seen I am not such an imbecile ( in most games :trollface: ). 

 

edit:

 

btw, those DD's in your formation are out of place. I seen '.....' in DD's 'escorting' BB's during ffin domination matches instead of contesting caps or SPOTTING ahead of the cruisers. There is no way a DD should EVER be behind cruisers let alone a BB. Just saying :coin:

Edited by mtm78

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Yes it's true. I totally agree with you. Not just in front but also on the side. That would be an ideal team. What i meant is that if there was a spotting rewards system and if cruisers hypothetically tried to benefit from it, they would have to be even further, towards the enemy. As a result the BBs would be left alone and unprotected more often

 

Well, whether you spot at max range or at point blank the benefit would presumably be the same. 

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As a CA player I always try to screen DD's/BB's if possible, the difficulty is trying to keep at an effective range so that I am not focused by multiple ships but still keeping most of my guns firing on cooldown,

I play German cruisers and the optimal way to play them, (and not get deleted) is to make contact with the enemy then fight a running/turning/advancing battle while trying to keep within 7km of the BB/DD

Its tricky sometimes especially when escorting DD's in the opening phase of battle, the enemy don't see you due to your short detection ranges, so they all see me and everyone loves firing on a nice squishy CA now don't they!

So that's when I turn away from the enemy, then circle back toward the enemy (when safe) all the while im trying to keep as many guns on target as possible and also trying to protect my citadel, which is HUGE on DKM cruisers, last night my full health Hipper got deleted when one shotted by an Izumo about 2 mins into the game, I was turning to try to angle my armor but BOOM!, he said on chat that it was a quadruple citadel hit! he must have loved it :(

So yes a decent CA will always try to cover DD's & BB's but it comes at a heavy price if they make a mistake!!!!

Edited by Popeyes_Revenge

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If this is the Astalano i used to know in WoT (Italian, Jagdtiger fan), then he is an excellent player who understands tactics. I also agree with his post, as Cruisers do not play their role right atm. I also understand that it is hard to do so, since they get citadelled easily nowadays. If i play my cruiser, i tend to hang in front of my friendly BB and try to screen for torpedos, and planes. I do not engage BB unless there are no other more usefull targets, like dd.

 

Add me ingame if u want some sensible CA with u :B

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btw, those DD's in your formation are out of place. I seen '.....' in DD's 'escorting' BB's during ffin domination matches instead of contesting caps or SPOTTING ahead of the cruisers. There is no way a DD should EVER be behind cruisers let alone a BB. Just saying :coin:

 

If there were submarines then DDs would be the spotters for subs (Anti Submarine Warfare). As they are now, DDs are area denial weapons in the early stages and spotters and in the later stages they're BB and CV hunters. But cruisers can be spotters as well. Both DDs and CLs/CAs can be screens, it's just that cruisers are better at it. 

 

Once DDs pop smoke or hide behind an island, they're no longer spotting effectively or screening. 

 

That's my beef with cruisers, that they're not doing their jobs and they could do better by just doing their jobs of providing screening, at least in the early stages of the match. 

 

As for IJN BBs, they're mostly BC's (battlecruisers, so they're cruiser killers), but they're less maneuverable than a lot of USN BBs from what I've seen, although they go faster. I think it's a losing proposition to rely on IJN BBs to dodge torpedos. 

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[THESO]
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If there were submarines then DDs would be the spotters for subs (Anti Submarine Warfare). As they are now, DDs are area denial weapons in the early stages and spotters and in the later stages they're BB and CV hunters. But cruisers can be spotters as well. Both DDs and CLs/CAs can be screens, it's just that cruisers are better at it. 

 

Once DDs pop smoke or hide behind an island, they're no longer spotting effectively or screening. 

 

That's my beef with cruisers, that they're not doing their jobs and they could do better by just doing their jobs of providing screening, at least in the early stages of the match. 

 

As for IJN BBs, they're mostly BC's (battlecruisers, so they're cruiser killers), but they're less maneuverable than a lot of USN BBs from what I've seen, although they go faster. I think it's a losing proposition to rely on IJN BBs to dodge torpedos. 

 

Yeah that works better with the CL's up to tier 5, from there on you get such slow rudder times a good DD will not have much problems with most CA captains.

 

The problem I think is that you're expecting your allies to be actually good at the game, I don't think we really disagree on anything you're saying it's just not realistic given the current player base it seems ( and as in WoT, this amplifies during weekends and especially during events ). 

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If this is the Astalano i used to know in WoT (Italian, Jagdtiger fan), then he is an excellent player who understands tactics. I also agree with his post, as Cruisers do not play their role right atm. I also understand that it is hard to do so, since they get citadelled easily nowadays. If i play my cruiser, i tend to hang in front of my friendly BB and try to screen for torpedos, and planes. I do not engage BB unless there are no other more usefull targets, like dd.

 

Add me ingame if u want some sensible CA with u :B

 

WoT and WOWS are two of the few games that will run on this laptop so I play when I have some downtime. I'll be more active in the summer when I have some real time off and access to an actual computer that will run this above 25 fps. 

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[DC_DK]
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Random is just damage whoring. Nothing else. you can not expect any strategy besides your division.

 

DDs is too much fire and forget boring.

BBs is rngesus big time. Was in my Colorado. Aoba was bombing me and chasing me. Hitting him many times...no citadel or anything REALLY WG. Too much dependent on chance to be fun.

 

So I play ijn ca and other cruisers. Most fun and most rewarding if you become good in them. Skill is rewarded in CAs more than other ships.

 

Trying to hope that anybody will sacrifice their life for you is really silly. People do not care about anything except damage whoring.

 

Edited by gizaman

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