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Lordofdroid

Soviet DD T10 vs IJN Cruiser T9: How should it go?

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So, I was sailing about in a T9-T10 battle in my Ibuki and I see 2 Khabarovsk on C, where I am headed to.

Before I can set my turrets right, I am barraged by a rain of AP shells from these 2 Soviet destroyers. I am chuckling and moving forward thinking how can a destroyer think about APing my Ibuki...little that I realize that as I move forward, those AP hits start to hurt bad. Like really BAD. In no time, I am at reduced to 70% HP. And this is before I can hit them in a meaningful way with my relatively slower RoF.

Soon enough, 1 of them breaks away and dies. The other one, as expected, goes under smoke as soon as I start hitting back with HE. But lo...the Khabarovsk comes back and start pounding with incredible RoF and venom in AP. 

In no time, despite healing, I am done with a final salvo of AP from destroyer worth nearly 7k! WTF.

Now, reasonably, I would take this pounding by a BB or a Cruiser or a torpedo salvo by a Destroyer or fire but heck...AP? Is that "working as intended" or my expectations are all messed up regarding encountering a higher DD? I never faced this situation before and I am pretty baffled and "hurt". 

Have you faced this? Is it normal?

 

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[POMF]
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Russian DDs are all about good guns and some suicide range torps.

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[SCRUB]
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Those 130mm cannons on the VMF DDs can really put the hurt on you if you give them a juicy target. They will penetrate a broadside cruiser and can do significant damage to your superstructure.

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[GRKEN]
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130mm AP does 2500 max damage so full damage potential is even higher than those 7k salvoes of normal penetrations.

Unless your armor is on heavy end of the scale for cruiser you shouldn't show your side for them below medium range.

 

That Soviet 130mm gun was actually kinda like "semi-cruiser" gun.

Despite of only 3mm bigger caliber than USN 127mm shell is lot heavier (so longer and ballistically better) and fired at notably higher velocity.

 

From short range lightly armored cruisers turn into swiss cheese very fast without heavy angling: (check minimap)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1parmmlfw53ql0k/Kuma%20Citadelled.jpg?dl=0

Next three citadel hit salvo put that Kuma out of its misery.

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[OMNI]
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I am chuckling and moving sideways to them thinking how can a destroyer think about APing my Ibuki...little that I realize that as I move with broadside totally exposed, those AP hits start to hurt bad. 

 

Fixed that sentence for you.

  • Cool 1

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[WG-EU]
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I see. At lower tier, with paper thin armour, yes- it does make sense that you can hit cruisers pretty hard.

But at T9 with a considerably good amount of armour, it is a bit surprising that Ibuki went down without much of a fight. 

Of course, showing broadside should hurt but the amount of damage delivered with in seconds is just amazing for that tier for that type of ship against a T9 ship. Makes me question the whole point of going against the DDs when my job as a cruiser is to actually hunt those DDs! :(

 

 

 

 

 

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[WG-EU]
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Fixed that sentence for you.

 

Thank you!

Indeed. It is fair to think that was the problem that I overestimated my armour and underestimated their guns. Lesson learnt. A bitter one but still not very easy to digest.

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[CATS]
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Take them on one by one.

BB can get overwhelmed by multiple cruisers too.

That is only natural.

Next time keep your distance and shell them from longer range, they are easy to hit.

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Never go broadside against a ship spamming AP.

 

Khabarovsk has 8 130/55 guns that shoot 34kg+ shells, in game it can penetrate Yamato armour when broadside. Start angling and you'll be safe.

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Beta Tester
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Yes, they are capable of doing very high AP damage. If ANY ship (except a DD) is showing side, with a RU DD you're better of shooting AP at it. You can easily do 4k salvos on Yamato (with very fast reload) as long as it is showing a perfect broadside.

How to fight them? Simply, don't show side. Moderate angling will help a lot. Go bow in on them if needed and just shoot them with your cruiser HE. They lose guns EXTREMELY easy, if you manage to land a salvo or two there is a huge chance you will destroy at least one of his guns.

Also, they are quite vulnerable to torps because they aren't very maneuverable, don't accelerate fast and tend to "fishtail" in turns. Send torps his way and he will probably be occupied trying to avoid them rather than shooting you.

If one is in a smoke and shooting you... immediately show him your stern or bow so he can't do serious damage and go invisible if you can.

 

By the way... just so you don't get surprised again... USN and IJN DDs are also capable of doing heavy AP damage if they get close enough and you show side. Don't show side to destroyers, just in case :)

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[WG-EU]
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Yes, they are capable of doing very high AP damage. If ANY ship (except a DD) is showing side, with a RU DD you're better of shooting AP at it. You can easily do 4k salvos on Yamato (with very fast reload) as long as it is showing a perfect broadside.

How to fight them? Simply, don't show side. Moderate angling will help a lot. Go bow in on them if needed and just shoot them with your cruiser HE. They lose guns EXTREMELY easy, if you manage to land a salvo or two there is a huge chance you will destroy at least one of his guns.

Also, they are quite vulnerable to torps because they aren't very maneuverable, don't accelerate fast and tend to "fishtail" in turns. Send torps his way and he will probably be occupied trying to avoid them rather than shooting you.

If one is in a smoke and shooting you... immediately show him your stern or bow so he can't do serious damage and go invisible if you can.

 

By the way... just so you don't get surprised again... USN and IJN DDs are also capable of doing heavy AP damage if they get close enough and you show side. Don't show side to destroyers, just in case :)

This. This bothers and disturbs me a lot. It should be THEM who should be running away and stay invisible.

All this maneuvering that you mentioned: shouldn't this be used by the DDs? That is what bothered me that how fearlessly Khabarovsk pounded the fudge out of me :/ 

 

However, I do agree and thank you for the tips. As I said, this was first time ever I went through this :) I just did not deem necessary that at distance of 8kms, I should be afraid to broadside myself against a DD...now correctly learnt as CL by kotkiller. That sums it up. That treat them as CL and not DD.

 

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Well i see no Problem with that. A Shima has 15 Torps with 20 km range, a Gearing has good torps and good guns and good Stealth. A Khab ( and Udaloy ) had REALY good guns and i love them. Ist intendet that they can fight CAs, if they Show side, Yeasterday I did 5k dmg to a Yamato in my Khab / Salvo. With a RoF of 16 that was realy effektive.

If more People would Play Russian DDs maby most of us would stop complaining about Shimas.

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So, I was sailing about in a T9-T10 battle in my Ibuki and I see 2 Khabarovsk on C, where I am headed to.

Before I can set my turrets right, I am barraged by a rain of AP shells from these 2 Soviet destroyers. I am chuckling and moving forward thinking how can a destroyer think about APing my Ibuki...little that I realize that as I move forward, those AP hits start to hurt bad. Like really BAD. In no time, I am at reduced to 70% HP. And this is before I can hit them in a meaningful way with my relatively slower RoF.

Soon enough, 1 of them breaks away and dies. The other one, as expected, goes under smoke as soon as I start hitting back with HE. But lo...the Khabarovsk comes back and start pounding with incredible RoF and venom in AP. 

In no time, despite healing, I am done with a final salvo of AP from destroyer worth nearly 7k! WTF.

Now, reasonably, I would take this pounding by a BB or a Cruiser or a torpedo salvo by a Destroyer or fire but heck...AP? Is that "working as intended" or my expectations are all messed up regarding encountering a higher DD? I never faced this situation before and I am pretty baffled and "hurt". 

Have you faced this? Is it normal?

 

 

G'day, mate.

 

I'm one of the Khabas you encountered. I took a look at the match in question and... well:

First and foremost, you got yourself in a really bad situation whilst not angling properly at 10km range. The Khabas *could* probably cit you at that range, but it's highly unlikely. What they do, though, at 10km range, is pen you for pretty decent damage. You would've been fine if you had just put a proper angle towards us from the very start. What ultimetly killed you was giving my Khabarovsk a full broadside at 4km range. Even against a Gearing at that range, taking its crappy pen shells into account, you would've suffered. I think I got 3 citadels on you with one volley. Ofc that's gonna hurt.

 

A friendly tip is - Just treat the Khabas as any other CA at <10km and you'll do fine in your future games. Also, slightest angle (say 60-70°) against a Khaba within that range and he'll just penetrate your armor, but not cit you, which should buy you enough time to deal with him. Below 60° and his shells will probably just bounce off.

Edited by netc0rd

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Beta Tester
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So, I was sailing about in a T9-T10 battle in my Ibuki and I see 2 Khabarovsk on C, where I am headed to.

Before I can set my turrets right, I am barraged by a rain of AP shells from these 2 Soviet destroyers. I am chuckling and moving forward thinking how can a destroyer think about APing my Ibuki...little that I realize that as I move forward, those AP hits start to hurt bad. Like really BAD. In no time, I am at reduced to 70% HP. And this is before I can hit them in a meaningful way with my relatively slower RoF.

Soon enough, 1 of them breaks away and dies. The other one, as expected, goes under smoke as soon as I start hitting back with HE. But lo...the Khabarovsk comes back and start pounding with incredible RoF and venom in AP. 

In no time, despite healing, I am done with a final salvo of AP from destroyer worth nearly 7k! WTF.

Now, reasonably, I would take this pounding by a BB or a Cruiser or a torpedo salvo by a Destroyer or fire but heck...AP? Is that "working as intended" or my expectations are all messed up regarding encountering a higher DD? I never faced this situation before and I am pretty baffled and "hurt". 

Have you faced this? Is it normal?

 

I would probobly risk it in my Zao, but other then that i would never charge a Russ DD or less 2 Russ DDs in a cruiser because they have all the advantages. They can set multibel fires on you with HE, They smoke uf and fires torps then you get close up and when you try and turn the will destroy youre citadel with AP. I would only engage from afar if i had backup and hopefully a cv spotting. The Kiev prenerf was so op i once help a flank all alone against 2 BBs and 2 cruisers, it was that OP. 2 ships i killed and 2 fled.

I have the Udaloi now and i can litterly see cruiser and BB captain shitting their pants when they try and charge me in my smoke. Even the Teshkent that many says is crap was really OP in Ranked, because off speed to caps, ROF, torps and smoke.

 

So dont expect a easy fight against a Russ DD, just check out the many many many videos with these DDs on Youtube, like Flamu´s channel and you will see what they are capable off.

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[WG-EU]
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G'day, mate.

 

I'm one of the Khabas you encountered. I took a look at the match in question and... well:

First and foremost, you got yourself in a really bad situation whilst not angling properly at 10km range. The Khabas *could* probably cit you at that range, but it's highly unlikely. What they do, though, at 10km range, is pen you for pretty decent damage. You would've been fine if you had just put a proper angle towards us from the very start. What ultimetly killed you was giving my Khabarovsk a full broadside at 4km range. Even against a Gearing at that range, taking its crappy pen shells into account, you would've suffered. I think I got 3 citadels on you with one volley. Ofc that's gonna hurt.

 

A friendly tip is - Just treat the Khabas as any other CA at <10km and you'll do fine in your future games. Also, slightest angle (say 60-70°) against a Khaba within that range and he'll just penetrate your armor, but not cit you, which should buy you enough time to deal with him. Below 60° and his shells will probably just bounce off.

Thank you for the tips. I did put them into use today when I encountered another Khabarovsk. Angling helped a lot but then, as Collin below said, the guy started to HE me. With that quick RoF, I was on fire on stern and bow in no time and had to turn around in retreat.  

I would probobly risk it in my Zao, but other then that i would never charge a Russ DD or less 2 Russ DDs in a cruiser because they have all the advantages. They can set multibel fires on you with HE, They smoke uf and fires torps then you get close up and when you try and turn the will destroy youre citadel with AP. I would only engage from afar if i had backup and hopefully a cv spotting. The Kiev prenerf was so op i once help a flank all alone against 2 BBs and 2 cruisers, it was that OP. 2 ships i killed and 2 fled.

I have the Udaloi now and i can litterly see cruiser and BB captain shitting their pants when they try and charge me in my smoke. Even the Teshkent that many says is crap was really OP in Ranked, because off speed to caps, ROF, torps and smoke.

 

So dont expect a easy fight against a Russ DD, just check out the many many many videos with these DDs on Youtube, like Flamu´s channel and you will see what they are capable off.

Sure, can say that Soviet DDs are powerful gunboats with tame torps. I guess its a good contrast from IJN with terrible guns and excellent torps...with USN somewhere in between. I have Fubuki myself and meeting a Soviet DD is worst nightmare...and that is what I am seeing even while playing as a CA now; that Soviet DDs are extremely challenging if you are alone as a cruiser.

Edited by 1_Thor_Hammer

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