World of DD

[__Katniss__]

 

The server statistics say otherwise.

 

Only thing i can see there is too many tier 8,9,10 DDs especailly IJN. I played last few weeks enough games in tier 5-6 and even there is not problem with any class at all. I play cruisers mostly. Your BB domination theory is not relevant in any tier but high tiers DD problem is real. 

[Admiral_noodle]

 

Ok, going off the premise we are no longer on subject topic concerning all DDs, but rather looking at torps, or higher tiers, and maybe the Shim :

 

So saying dodging incoming fire is as boring as dodging torpedoes would be fair? Its part of the game; like saying I want some danger but not too much.

 

In my Minekaze I have to put up with every other nation DD having the chance to spot and having better artillery (even at a tier below), enemy CA spotter craft, BB spotter craft, CV aircraft and the fact that once detected it's Piniata time! I could say it's boring, but it is more the opposite. Although the big difference seems to be that many of the torps miss or don't kill (according to statistics); the artillery fired at DDs is more likely to lead to a kill. So who has more cause to complain.

 

A very singular view, but look forward to others take on it. 

 

 

 

To be honest all or a lot of high tier DDs have decent torps. Dodging torpedoes is part of the game and fun. *only* dodging torpedoes while being unable to shoot at anyone because neither side will close due to torps is boring - actually doesn't happen to me that often but it means basically your own DDs aren't doing their job (or cv if you have one). Of course I also need to try something when I see walls of torpedoes. Disengage and go somewhere else on the map!

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

To be honest all or a lot of high tier DDs have decent torps. Dodging torpedoes is part of the game and fun. *only* dodging torpedoes while being unable to shoot at anyone because neither side will close due to torps is boring - actually doesn't happen to me that often but it means basically your own DDs aren't doing their job (or cv if you have one). Of course I also need to try something when I see walls of torpedoes. Disengage and go somewhere else on the map!

 

Appreciate the reply.

 

Sometimes I wonder if it isn't the fact that people change their style of play which in turn is affecting the gameplay to a greater extent (a choice by the player rather than a direct effect of a gameplay mechanic)? What I mean is that: If I know there are a lot of torpedoes; I know I can't always count on team play; I know that repairs cost an arm and a leg; therefore I decide to play it safe (this can include all classes of ship), then all that is left is to spam whatever weapons you have at a distance. I can believe this would be frustrating....

 

 

However, if we take the stats and your own statement that many torps don't actually hit their target and that it may not happen that often, then surely this is a circumstance of the decision made by the players, rather than the World of DD/World of Torps/World of Shimas many talk about. A domino effect that leads to a frustrating game but one that could be addressed if the players decided to go forward together as a team(?) I guess I'm just asking that if the players decide to take a stand back and fire approach, is it fair to blame the DD any more than the BB that does the same?

 

 

Thanks again.

 

 

Thank you again.

 

 

[Zathras_Grimm]

Well most played ship is shimakaze after the buff they got.

There is no problem with dodging torps. we were not asking for any nerfs to DDs. but the number of DDs is just too much per battle. thats why we were asking for a limit to DD numbers in a team.

 

Hi Ghostbuster, decided on a separate post as your reply is a little different to the Admiral's.

 

Taking my last post into account (and not accusing anyone of wishing to nerf DDs), I believe the style of gameplay is leading to the class of ship people are deciding to play. Why would you pick a ship you know isn't suited to the style of gameplay?

 

 

Again, I can agree on the effect a certain decision of gameplay could lead to: If we are firing from afar, then you will choose a large range/high HP ship, or one that can't be seen (or CV; stands to reason). This could lead to those attempting to play CAs being the piñata of the game as they are the closer, lower HP target that everyone can see. Result, lower CA numbers (or CAs try to hide behind BBs). Then it's down to BBs and DDs in the main; this won't go well for the BBs so I can understand their frustration (although you can pick much of what they complain about and compare it directly to what a DD has to deal with; an enemy firing at you that you can do nothing back to!).

 

 

I agree this would be frustrating, but ask if this is a direct result of the power of DD ships, or if it is in fact the 'circumstance' (or choice people have made) that has lead to the DD issues people are having?

[woppy101]

Taken from another thread.

 

[edited]

 

that is an absolute joke, but good old WG " working as intended "

[DirtyFilthyScoundrel]

 

Hi Ghostbuster, decided on a separate post as your reply is a little different to the Admiral's.

 

Taking my last post into account (and not accusing anyone of wishing to nerf DDs), I believe the style of gameplay is leading to the class of ship people are deciding to play. Why would you pick a ship you know isn't suited to the style of gameplay?

 

 

Again, I can agree on the effect a certain decision of gameplay could lead to: If we are firing from afar, then you will choose a large range/high HP ship, or one that can't be seen (or CV; stands to reason). This could lead to those attempting to play CAs being the piñata of the game as they are the closer, lower HP target that everyone can see. Result, lower CA numbers (or CAs try to hide behind BBs). Then it's down to BBs and DDs in the main; this won't go well for the BBs so I can understand their frustration (although you can pick much of what they complain about and compare it directly to what a DD has to deal with; an enemy firing at you that you can do nothing back to!).

 

 

I agree this would be frustrating, but ask if this is a direct result of the power of DD ships, or if it is in fact the 'circumstance' (or choice people have made) that has lead to the DD issues people are having?

 

I absolutely agree with this, it is the style of gameplay, people do it because they can, you're not going to get proper teamplay in a random battles match, its the downside of online gaming. 

 

In this instance, I strongly believe that the Devs should be implimenting something to prevent it from happening, because if people can get away with doing it, then they will, end of. 

 

I dont think that the DD's need a nerf, I think that if something was implimented that meant that the spammers, had to think about the torps that they were firing, rather than just spamming them at will, it would force them to change their gameplay. BB captains have to think about positioning and aiming, CA's have to and CV's have to consider an overall tactical game to do with their air groups. 

 

DD's really dont - stay outside detection range as much as possible and in the case of the seeming majority of shimakaze captains - throw enough sh*t at the wall and some of it will stick.

 

 

[ghostbuster_]

 

Hi Ghostbuster, decided on a separate post as your reply is a little different to the Admiral's.

 

Taking my last post into account (and not accusing anyone of wishing to nerf DDs), I believe the style of gameplay is leading to the class of ship people are deciding to play. Why would you pick a ship you know isn't suited to the style of gameplay?

 

 

Again, I can agree on the effect a certain decision of gameplay could lead to: If we are firing from afar, then you will choose a large range/high HP ship, or one that can't be seen (or CV; stands to reason). This could lead to those attempting to play CAs being the piñata of the game as they are the closer, lower HP target that everyone can see. Result, lower CA numbers (or CAs try to hide behind BBs). Then it's down to BBs and DDs in the main; this won't go well for the BBs so I can understand their frustration (although you can pick much of what they complain about and compare it directly to what a DD has to deal with; an enemy firing at you that you can do nothing back to!).

 

 

I agree this would be frustrating, but ask if this is a direct result of the power of DD ships, or if it is in fact the 'circumstance' (or choice people have made) that has lead to the DD issues people are having?

 

hi there, did you miss me?

this is the choose of people, to play DDs. but the main question: why are there more people who wants to play DDs? why did the number increase that much and that quick? Answer is simple, its easy to stay undetected and launch torps while the cvs are missing. And with severel torpedo buff it became more attractive to play DDs. I know many people who wants to sail their BBs but who press Esc when they see the number of DDs as 10 and the other classes 1-2. I do it also myself. If i see many DDs waiting for battle i take my shimakaze too although i hate playing it. limiting the number of DDs would solve this game breaking problem. There is also no need for DD players to complain. There would be more space for DDs to sail around without being detected.

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

hi there, did you miss me?

this is the choose of people, to play DDs. but the main question: why are there more people who wants to play DDs? why did the number increase that much and that quick? Answer is simple, its easy to stay undetected and launch torps while the cvs are missing. And with severel torpedo buff it became more attractive to play DDs. I know many people who wants to sail their BBs but who press Esc when they see the number of DDs as 10 and the other classes 1-2. I do it also myself. If i see many DDs waiting for battle i take my shimakaze too although i hate playing it. limiting the number of DDs would solve this game breaking problem. There is also no need for DD players to complain. There would be more space for DDs to sail around without being detected.

 

A possible solution, but then I think why must DDs have to be limited due to others choice to stay back?

 

I go forward, to scout, cap and attack, with low HP and plenty of things out there to spot me it is a danger, but for me it is the role I choose and the chance I take. Why must DDs be limited because others aren't prepared to move forward?

 

 

I look at the picture above and wonder if any of those torps will hit; I also see that the red team is pushing forward whilst the green team is on the other side so it's no wonder the DDs feel safe in firing their torps. To the right of the picture and on the map you can see there are another 2 enemy DDs; one nearly dead. The game is more than half way through so an easy observation, but it seems the DDs are safe enough to launch and have nothing to fear from the green team. Would they have been so free in launching earlier in the game?

There was a video I saw on the forum where a group were being torped. That also showed they had no DD cover (as it had dropped back), they were aware they had been spotted, all the ships were in 2 bunched up groups and they had just fired there own 'wall' of torps; so it wasn't a one sided thing.

 

 

Those seem to be the only pic/vid I have seen in the 2-3 months of forum entries complaining about the DDs/Torps/Shims. I am not stating there isn't an issue, as too many forum players have commented on the problem. But I do think that the issue can be rather one sided and the situation can easily be flipped on the head with what DDs have to deal with, that is why I wonder about the capping of a ship when everyone says they are not OP.

 

 

It just seems to come easier for some to accept the death of a DD rather than accept the death from one.  The last statement is a general one and not aimed at any particular person(s).

[Dampfboot]

As I have said before, the issue is not so much the number of DDs as the distribution between teams. Two examples attached. Match Making needs fixing in that regard ASAP.

 

 

[ghostbuster_]

 

A possible solution, but then I think why must DDs have to be limited due to others choice to stay back?

 

I go forward, to scout, cap and attack, with low HP and plenty of things out there to spot me it is a danger, but for me it is the role I choose and the chance I take. Why must DDs be limited because others aren't prepared to move forward?

 

 

I look at the picture above and wonder if any of those torps will hit; I also see that the red team is pushing forward whilst the green team is on the other side so it's no wonder the DDs feel safe in firing their torps. To the right of the picture and on the map you can see there are another 2 enemy DDs; one nearly dead. The game is more than half way through so an easy observation, but it seems the DDs are safe enough to launch and have nothing to fear from the green team. Would they have been so free in launching earlier in the game?

There was a video I saw on the forum where a group were being torped. That also showed they had no DD cover (as it had dropped back), they were aware they had been spotted, all the ships were in 2 bunched up groups and they had just fired there own 'wall' of torps; so it wasn't a one sided thing.

 

 

Those seem to be the only pic/vid I have seen in the 2-3 months of forum entries complaining about the DDs/Torps/Shims. I am not stating there isn't an issue, as too many forum players have commented on the problem. But I do think that the issue can be rather one sided and the situation can easily be flipped on the head with what DDs have to deal with, that is why I wonder about the capping of a ship when everyone says they are not OP.

 

 

It just seems to come easier for some to accept the death of a DD rather than accept the death from one.  The last statement is a general one and not aimed at any particular person(s).

 

Actually what you are saying is 100% true. In this picture green DDs  just messed up. 

im glad that you accepted that there is a problem which i told you nearly 1 month ago.  

because there is no other solution. even there are equal number of DDs per team, it still breakss the game. In those kind of battles DD players play and the others can do anything mostly. limiting DD numbers would balance the game. every one can do his job. BBs, CAs, DDs. And the addiction to CVs would vanish.

[Zathras_Grimm]

As I have said before, the issue is not so much the number of DDs as the distribution between teams. Two examples attached. Match Making needs fixing in that regard ASAP.

 

 

 

 

Actually what you are saying is 100% true. In this picture green DDs  just messed up.

im glad that you accepted that there is a problem which i told you nearly 1 month ago. 

because there is no other solution. even there are equal number of DDs per team, it still breakss the game. In those kind of battles DD players play and the others can do anything mostly. limiting DD numbers would balance the game. every one can do his job. BBs, CAs, DDs. And the addiction to CVs would vanish.

 

 

Agree with you Dampfboot, unequal distribution of more than 1 ship or indeed a poor balance of torpboat/gunboat does not help.

 

 

Ghostbuster, 'not saying there isn't an issue' doesn't mean I agree that there is one; it merely means I'm prepared to consider many people are not just whinging because they choose to stay at the back or sail in straight lines and get hit (although I dare say some are).

 

 

Everyone can do their job; what is that exactly? When did everything go wrong and why did the DDs become a favoured ship? Not because they are OP, but because people choose caution at the top tiers it seems, whereas players seem to work better together in lower tiers. There has been a great increase in DDs in the lower tiers, yet the structure of play does not seem affected as with the higher tiers. Yet the stats seem similar in high as well as low tier.

[Spellfire40]

 

Totally irrelevant point  you're trying to make.

 

The number of torpedoes in the water is what i'm using to illustrate this thankfully, aircraft went over and spotted them all - the amount of DD's on the enemy team is also a good indication of how ridiculous the balance can be.

 

And whould a The same number of Yamatos shooting at the CA it would be dead in 2 Salvos instead of having his course looked for 20 sek.

[mkdanmark]

The reason there is so many DDs theese days is simple. If you dont like BBs there is no other option, cruisers simply arent viable any more.

All my mates have abadoned there cruisers and turned to the DD.

 

Cruisers are utterly useless and people are changeing to DDs.

 

Its normal with around 10 cruisers in a random battle ( 5 on each side )

Usually the 10 cruisers will have 2 kills between them.

 

Buff cruisers to be viable from tier 8-9-10 and the number of DDs will drop.

 

[ghostbuster_]

 

 

 

Agree with you Dampfboot, unequal distribution of more than 1 ship or indeed a poor balance of torpboat/gunboat does not help.

 

 

Ghostbuster, 'not saying there isn't an issue' doesn't mean I agree that there is one; it merely means I'm prepared to consider many people are not just whinging because they choose to stay at the back or sail in straight lines and get hit (although I dare say some are).

 

 

Everyone can do their job; what is that exactly? When did everything go wrong and why did the DDs become a favoured ship? Not because they are OP, but because people choose caution at the top tiers it seems, whereas players seem to work better together in lower tiers. There has been a great increase in DDs in the lower tiers, yet the structure of play does not seem affected as with the higher tiers. Yet the stats seem similar in high as well as low tier.

 

you know when did the DDs become the favoured ship, after the torpedo stealth buff and after all nerfs to CVs. CVs got out of the game and with the torpedo buffs, people just started to play them, even i started to play them although i hate playing DD. 

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

you know when did the DDs become the favoured ship, after the torpedo stealth buff and after all nerfs to CVs. CVs got out of the game and with the torpedo buffs, people just started to play them, even i started to play them although i hate playing DD. 

 

The CV and stealth buff were a little way apart from each other. It also doesn't explain the increase of DDs in lower tiers (not all kamis).

 

To spend time on something you hate can explain the reason for a lot of frustration to!  Hopefully we can all get to a point where we are happy with the game and a loss is accepted as a case of the other player/team just being better.

[TheJezna]

 

Ok, going off the premise we are no longer on subject topic concerning all DDs, but rather looking at torps, or higher tiers, and maybe the Shim :

 

So saying dodging incoming fire is as boring as dodging torpedoes would be fair? Its part of the game; like saying I want some danger but not too much.

 

 

There's no denying that dodging shells in a DD can be funny and exciting, dodging anything in a BB is mostly tedious, due to the inherent differences in how the ships handle.

 

On the main topic, and as a couple of people have already said, I think it's very much psychology at play, many people are simply more annoyed by dying to a torp than than to shells, and I think most of that anger is really anger towards the player him/herself projected towards the DD who fired it because almost every time you get hit by a torp it's extremely easy to realize how simple it would have been to dodge if you had only took another turn or changed your speed 10 seconds ago. I myself know that when sinking another DD in a close fight, there will almost always be torpedoes coming my way which normally is easy to dodge since you are fully aware. Sometimes however I screw up, don't maneuver accordingly to be in a position to dodge, or simply hesitate as to which way to turn at the moment of dodging, making me eat one which is often fatal, and it's so infuriating.

 

I also think the feeling of helplessness many player feel when targeted by IJN DD's is a bad thing; players shouldn't ever be in a situation where they feel they can't do anything but desperately trying to stay alive. A lot more BB captains feel ok when a USN/SN DD manages to ambush them or otherwise get close, persist through the BB's secondaries and main guns and proceed to torp him from close range than dying to a sudden spread of torpedoes appearing out of nowhere.

 

None of these have anything to do with how the classes perform in relation to eachother, it's all about the actual experience of players involved and how they perceive things. No matter how well balanced a game is, it can still be in need of changes to make the experience a positive one. I think the mechanics of being able to torpedo (or shoot for that matter) out of concealment is inherently one that will cause controversy and if the game could be balanced without these abilities I think it would be for the better.

 

Then we have the ridiculous and absurd situations that arise from time to time: it's not fun to go up against a team with 5 Shimakazes. However it would really suck pretty bad to go up against a team with 5 Yamatos as well. Or 5 Gearings. Or 5 of a number of other ships. But this never happens, at least not currently, why is that? Is it to easy to grind the IJN DD line so that there are to many Shimakazes in relation to the other lines? Is it to easy to play them compared to other lines? Are they much more enjoyable to play than other classes? Or are they much more powerful? Other reasons? I don't know, none of us do really, we can just speculate. Personally I don't think they are perceived as more enjoyable or that they are significantly more powerful than all other lines either, this last part should at least be pretty easy for WG to verify. My point is though that without knowing why there are so many of them it's impossible to come up with a remedy.

[ghostbuster_]

 

The CV and stealth buff were a little way apart from each other. It also doesn't explain the increase of DDs in lower tiers (not all kamis).

 

To spend time on something you hate can explain the reason for a lot of frustration to!  Hopefully we can all get to a point where we are happy with the game and a loss is accepted as a case of the other player/team just being better.

 

They are not apart. First cvs got nerf and people left them. than that torpedo buff came. after that DD population increased really fast.  i thought you can think that yourself but... People are trying to get DDs. to get shimakaze (or any other tier X DD) you have to play low tier DDs first. There are also too many hatsuharu, fubuki and kagero. people are grinding.  that explain the increase at low tiers, doesnt it?

 

I hate playing them yes but i grinded to shimakaze to use it when there are too many DDs waiting for battle. i would suggest you to get a tier 10 BB or CA and do some battles. Than you would understand why i spent that much time on something i hate.  

[ScratxNeko]

Might be worth pointing out that the last patch also buffed DDs by giving them easy to get Last Stand. This makes it much harder for cruisers who actually get their guns trained on a destroyer to take it down.

 

Given how elusive high tier DDs can be, this really does no favors.

 

Maybe radar will offset things back somewhat...

[Capra76]

Might be worth pointing out that the last patch also buffed DDs by giving them easy to get Last Stand. This makes it much harder for cruisers who actually get their guns trained on a destroyer to take it down.

 

Given how elusive high tier DDs can be, this really does no favors.

 

Maybe radar will offset things back somewhat...

 

 

This was quite a big buff for USN DD but would have been quite a big nerf for IJN except for the new survivability perk (IJN have to give up EM at level 2, which they really benefit from).

 

 

Problem with radar is it hits the sort of play we want to see (getting close, taking risks) and encourages the long range torpedo spam that the BB mafia complain about.

[Pajosaurus]

I'm loving "The World of Destroyers"! I only recently started playing US destroyer line after having been mainly cruiser/BB guy and I find Clemson sooooooooo phenomenal that I practically don't play any other ship lately. This little beast has become my favourite ship in the game (replacing Aoba). It's responsive, has great guns and lays total waste to pretty much any other comparable DD in the game: the ultimate DD hunter. And since there are tons of DDs lately, my beautiful Clemson is practically bathing in twisted hulks of ill-fated enemies. I'm literally becoming a junkie who craves nothing but Clemson, Clemson, and more Clemson.

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

They are not apart. First cvs got nerf and people left them. than that torpedo buff came. after that DD population increased really fast.  i thought you can think that yourself but... People are trying to get DDs. to get shimakaze (or any other tier X DD) you have to play low tier DDs first. There are also too many hatsuharu, fubuki and kagero. people are grinding.  that explain the increase at low tiers, doesnt it?

 

I hate playing them yes but i grinded to shimakaze to use it when there are too many DDs waiting for battle. i would suggest you to get a tier 10 BB or CA and do some battles. Than you would understand why i spent that much time on something i hate. 

 

I meant that the nerf and buff were not released at the same time.

 

When I was looking at what nation to start I looked at the abilities of each and decided on IJN. Yamato and Shim were 2 ships that stood out, so if I can figure that out then why wouldn't others (if tier 10 is seen as the ultimate goal, why not go for the best tier 10; most identify this as the Shim for DDs).

 

 

As stated above I started off by looking at what nation to choose and intended to grind through to 10. I just found that DDs gave me the most enjoyment because it was the ship I believed enabled my style of play to contribute to the team most. It can be frustrating when things don't go as planned but that will happen in a game that starts off with 12 players wanting to end you lol.

 

 

I am a little confused with the grinding to tier 10 to play a ship that you don't like statement (unless you mean you hate DD play in general but the Shim is different (acceptable?)). I play this game as it is enjoyable, the minute it doesn't become so then I will choose something else to play. I am all for working through the bad to get to the good (happens in life lol), but why work through the bad to get somewhere you don't enjoy being?

[ghostbuster_]

 

I meant that the nerf and buff were not released at the same time.

 

When I was looking at what nation to start I looked at the abilities of each and decided on IJN. Yamato and Shim were 2 ships that stood out, so if I can figure that out then why wouldn't others (if tier 10 is seen as the ultimate goal, why not go for the best tier 10; most identify this as the Shim for DDs).

 

 

As stated above I started off by looking at what nation to choose and intended to grind through to 10. I just found that DDs gave me the most enjoyment because it was the ship I believed enabled my style of play to contribute to the team most. It can be frustrating when things don't go as planned but that will happen in a game that starts off with 12 players wanting to end you lol.

 

 

I am a little confused with the grinding to tier 10 to play a ship that you don't like statement (unless you mean you hate DD play in general but the Shim is different (acceptable?)). I play this game as it is enjoyable, the minute it doesn't become so then I will choose something else to play. I am all for working through the bad to get to the good (happens in life lol), but why work through the bad to get somewhere you don't enjoy being?

 

Playing this game as a community with a voice chat program is really fun. And i play it mostly with people from my group. Yes i dont like playing DDs (including shima) but playing with your friends is still fun. but this is not the point, why i got the shima. 

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

Playing this game as a community with a voice chat program is really fun. And i play it mostly with people from my group. Yes i dont like playing DDs (including shima) but playing with your friends is still fun. but this is not the point, why i got the shima.

 

Ok understand the getting together with friends, still confused by the statement that this was not a positive point that contributed to you choosing to play a class you hate.  Ahhh, unless you are saying you feel you have no choice in tier/class but to play something you don't enjoy in order to keep with friends that play at that level; ok fair enough, but I still think that if true then it would be the point you chose to play the Shima (It was the best choice for you to play at that level and stay with your friends(?)).

[ghostbuster_]

 

Ok understand the getting together with friends, still confused by the statement that this was not a positive point that contributed to you choosing to play a class you hate.  Ahhh, unless you are saying you feel you have no choice in tier/class but to play something you don't enjoy in order to keep with friends that play at that level; ok fair enough, but I still think that if true then it would be the point you chose to play the Shima (It was the best choice for you to play at that level and stay with your friends(?)).

 

yes it is the best choice when there are that many DDs.

[chaosrealm93]

What are high tiers DD hunters?

 

m o g a m i