World of DD

[Gudgeon]

Yesterday I spotted three DD at once. I marked one as a focus target.

Guess how many people shot at him during the next two minutes?

 

One and that was me.

The other DD got no fire either.

 

But don't worry, when you give a ship a good whack, isn't it surprising how many players will come out of the woodwork suddenly and help you finish the target off. Gets me every time. 

[ColonelPete]

No, that team was hopeless.

[Zathras_Grimm]

Had a game yesterday with 4 Shimas+ 1 other DD versus 4 Shimas+ Gearing+Benson on the enemy team. Flamu (the streamer) was there too, he might have the madnes on video.

 

It was as retarded as it can possible get. I was a DM (so much for anti-DD) and I couldnt even get to any cover or retaliate in a meaningful way because I constantly had to squeeze through the neverending carpets from every direction, including those of our own shimas from behind, while enduring the BB-salvoes in between. We didnt even see their Shimas in the first 5 minutes or so, it was mainly the Gearing spotting for them and the Shimas spamming wave after wave from security.

 

If you dont have an excellent counter (a competent CV or a competent gunboat ) these games are just giant [edited] of ships running from the torpedoswarms like headless chickens. Im not talking about overpowered, but this is just no fun. Not a bit.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way but you are complaining about ships using their abilities (torps and guns). Why wouldn't a ship use its best attributes to win; it's like saying 'those BBs kept spamming artillery and made me have to dodge!'.

 

Why is it that the bigger ship captains tend to find the game 'boring' when a DD can fire at them and they can't fire back, yet the game is fine when they can fire at a DD that has been highlighted but the DD can't fire back (because of distance)?

 

I could argue that squeezing through the never ending carpets of artillery fire from every direction makes the game a giant cluster, but that isn't that what the game is about, guns AND torps? 

[kalamies]

http://i.imgur.com/FBuSSzE.jpg

[allufewig]

I cant blame Shimakazes for torping, but I can certainly blame WG for putting 4 Shimas+ some DD-sidekicks per team. It feels like youre swimming in torps rather than water. For similar reasons artillery was limited in WoT and carriers are limited right now. They impede gameplay in one way or another and make the game unfun and/or imbalanced when they appear in large numbers.
 

 

Actuall I wouldnt mind a certain limitation for all classes but the dedicated allrounder-class, namely cruisers.

[ColonelPete]

That would make the BBs happy.

[DirtyFilthyScoundrel]

 

If you played few games these days with tier 10 ship you wouldnt write this crap. Oh, wait you dont have any. Try to counter 4-5 shmikaze in one team with your amazing theory.  Huge DD problem is in tier 9-10 games. Min amout of DDs per team is 4 and its incresing. If WG would not stop this [edited], tier 10 games will be full of DDs with few ships from other classes. AA is too powerfull there. I shot down 30+ Midway planes too easy with Hindenburg and i dont even have full AA stetup. Almost nobody plays CV in tier 10 and too many noob players have their stronk dream shimikaze already. They spamming torps everywhere and camping endge of the map. Its even worse than camping noob with BB. For me is tier 10 dead until WG finally fix that DD nonsense. 

 

Absolutely this. 

 

And also for those of you that will inevitably say that this is bollocks and give the reasons below

 

"amount of damage done disproves theory" - Its not about damage done, its about torps in the water, x4 shimakaze's per team means 60 torpedoes in the water ever 1.5-2 minutes, its ridiculous. BB captains have to think about the shots that they take, its carefully judged because of turret positioning, maneuverability, reload time etc etc etc - none of these things have to be/are considered in a shimakaze when you can literally sit 15+ km outside of detection range and do nothing but spam torpedoes in the idea that one or two may hit.

 

"DD's are fine IF you play as a team" - Random battles rarely generate good teamwork as my experience for the most part is that people do what they want to do and then blame the team for not backing them up

"CV's are good at detecting Destroyers" - they are, but rarely if ever do I see high tier carriers in games now, and even if you do, 8/10 matches, the carriers seem to be obsessed with sinking the other carrier/s as soon as possible, fighters, bombers the lot, I refer to my point above.

 

also - matchmaking appears to be incapable of matching divisions, it sees a division, has a stroke and then buggers it up - almost always gives a heavy weighting to one team or another - I had a match the other week where the enemy team had x3 shimakaze's in a division - we had a fubuki as highest tier DD and a Zao. Same for a division of x3 Yamato's - highest BB on our team was a tirpitz.

[allufewig]

That would make the BBs happy.

 

 

A limitation of DDs also would also make them happy.

 

 

Whatever hampers the general balance the least.

 

 

 

 

[ColonelPete]

BB still dominate the game.

With a DD limit, BB would dominate even more.

[kalamies]

10 DDs and 8 of them shimas... 3-4 DDs is enough in one team

[DirtyFilthyScoundrel]

Taken from another thread.

 

[edited]

[Capra76]

Limits on ship numbers has the potential to be game breaking, because you're trying to squeeze 40% of the players into 25% of the game slots and fill 50% of the game with 25% of the players, this would have some serious effects:

 

With a 3x DD cap destroyers would be guaranteed to always be top tier and would usually be matched against lower tier ships, all available T10 match slots would be filled with T10 DD, there would be no prospect of a T9 DD being dragged into it, this would ripple down the tiers.

 

If we include a 3x BB cap as well we are asking for each game to have 6x CA, which means we need to fill 50% of the game from 25% of the players.  The only way you could achieve this is by dragging in lots of T7/8 ships into T9/10 games, which means CA would nearly always be bottom tier making the game even more miserable for them and further diminishing the CA numbers to the point where MM might be unable to form a game.

[allufewig]

BB still dominate the game.

With a DD limit, BB would dominate even more.

 

 

Actually gobal class-winrates are pretty balanced. Much more than I thought they would be. Cant look it up right now, but it was something in the range of max 0,5% wr-difference. If youre refferring to damage, this gives you wrong impression to begin with. DDs have other means to influence the game, namely stealth and speed and all the benefits this brings with it (area denial, capping...)

 

 

In any way, DDs certainly dominate ranked.

[Capra76]

Taken from another thread.

 

And a quick reminder that if you look carefully each and every one of those torpedoes appears to be a miss.

 

[DirtyFilthyScoundrel]

 

And a quick reminder that if you look carefully each and every one of those torpedoes appears to be a miss.

 

 

Totally irrelevant point  you're trying to make.

 

The number of torpedoes in the water is what i'm using to illustrate this thankfully, aircraft went over and spotted them all - the amount of DD's on the enemy team is also a good indication of how ridiculous the balance can be.

[allufewig]

 

If we include a 3x BB cap as well we are asking for each game to have 6x CA, which means we need to fill 50% of the game from 25% of the players.  The only way you could achieve this is by dragging in lots of T7/8 ships into T9/10 games, which means CA would nearly always be bottom tier making the game even more miserable for them and further diminishing the CA numbers to the point where MM might be unable to form a game.

 

 

Careful, this is not how the MM works. At the beginning of the game you roll a number for battletier then the mm gathers ships to fill the battle. Example: You are a T7 CA and you roll for a T7-game: MM wont pull you to the T9-game just because people are waiting there.

You would be toptier as much as you are now. It could increase waiting times, however

 

 

[Zathras_Grimm]

Again this thread like many others seems to be going down the Shim route rather than a World of DD which is the subject title. 

 

Again, the more DDs out there the more chance a DD will be discovered due to them not seeing the enemy to avoid them. Also, it seems that when the stats do not support World of DDs accusation, it becomes a 'boring game' issue. As I previously stated, why is it a boring game when a BB must dodge incoming from an enemy they can do nothing about, but it is ok when a DD is fired upon by an enemy it can do nothing about it?

[ColonelPete]

 

 

Actually gobal class-winrates are pretty balanced. Much more than I thought they would be. Cant look it up right now, but it was something in the range of max 0,5% wr-difference. If youre refferring to damage, this gives you wrong impression to begin with. DDs have other means to influence the game, namely stealth and speed and all the benefits this brings with it (area denial, capping...)

 

 

In any way, DDs certainly dominate ranked.

We are not talking about ranked.

[Capra76]

 

 

Careful, this is not how the MM works. At the beginning of the game you roll a number for battletier then the mm gathers ships to fill the battle. Example: You are a T7 CA and you roll for a T7-game: MM wont pull you to the T9-game just because people are waiting there.

You would be toptier as much as you are now. It could increase waiting times, however

 

 

 

Sticking with that system would increase waiting times to unacceptable levels, maybe 15 minutes on average at higher tiers, if you wanted to introduce a cap you would have to use lower tier CA to balance the numbers.

[__Katniss__]

We are not talking about ranked.

 

Funny, when you said that. Because main problem with DDs is in tiers you dont even have.  Your BB domination theory can work in tier 5-6, not higher. 

[DirtyFilthyScoundrel]

We are not talking about ranked.

 

[edited]

[Admiral_noodle]

Again this thread like many others seems to be going down the Shim route rather than a World of DD which is the subject title. 

 

Again, the more DDs out there the more chance a DD will be discovered due to them not seeing the enemy to avoid them. Also, it seems that when the stats do not support World of DDs accusation, it becomes a 'boring game' issue. As I previously stated, why is it a boring game when a BB must dodge incoming from an enemy they can do nothing about, but it is ok when a DD is fired upon by an enemy it can do nothing about it?

 

Dodging torps all game and being unable to close and play the game *is* boring. I imagine being perma spotted in a DD *is* boring. 

 

That doesnt mean it's not balanced. But "world of torpedoes" isn't a game I want to play so I am:

 

- not playing my Iowa much

- going to fit out my NO as a DD hunter 

- going to try to play us DDs so I can go kill torpedo boats  

[ghostbuster_]

 

 

Again, the more DDs out there the more chance a DD will be discovered due to them not seeing the enemy to avoid them. Also, it seems that when the stats do not support World of DDs accusation, it becomes a 'boring game' issue. As I previously stated, why is it a boring game when a BB must dodge incoming from an enemy they can do nothing about, but it is ok when a DD is fired upon by an enemy it can do nothing about it?

Well most played ship is shimakaze after the buff they got. 

There is no problem with dodging torps. we were not asking for any nerfs to DDs. but the number of DDs is just too much per battle. thats why we were asking for a limit to DD numbers in a team. 

[ColonelPete]

ColonelPete, on 01 March 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

We are not talking about ranked.

 

Funny, when you said that. Because main problem with DDs is in tiers you dont even have.  Your BB domination theory can work in tier 5-6, not higher. 

 

The server statistics say otherwise.

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

Dodging torps all game and being unable to close and play the game *is* boring. I imagine being perma spotted in a DD *is* boring. 

 

That doesnt mean it's not balanced. But "world of torpedoes" isn't a game I want to play so I am:

 

- not playing my Iowa much

- going to fit out my NO as a DD hunter 

- going to try to play us DDs so I can go kill torpedo boats  

 

Ok, going off the premise we are no longer on subject topic concerning all DDs, but rather looking at torps, or higher tiers, and maybe the Shim :

 

So saying dodging incoming fire is as boring as dodging torpedoes would be fair? Its part of the game; like saying I want some danger but not too much.

 

In my Minekaze I have to put up with every other nation DD having the chance to spot and having better artillery (even at a tier below), enemy CA spotter craft, BB spotter craft, CV aircraft and the fact that once detected it's Piniata time! I could say it's boring, but it is more the opposite. Although the big difference seems to be that many of the torps miss or don't kill (according to statistics); the artillery fired at DDs is more likely to lead to a kill. So who has more cause to complain.

 

A very singular view, but look forward to others take on it.