World of DD

[Capra76]

 

These problems occur because there is an inbalance on what the players are trying to play, limiting the numbers would just mean a bunch of those DD players would have to sit in queue for another 5 minutes or more..

If they address the problem of WHY so many are choosing to play only a single of the class types, more players will take the other ships out and we will not run into such problems

 

 

Actually it's worse than that.

 

 

If you think about the way a first in first out system would work you'd continually have more DD being added to the pool than are leaving it, so the waiting times would grow until they reached a point where enough players were getting p***ed and leaving without getting a match, can't see WG being too keen on de facto banning 20% of the high tier players just to keep the noisy BB mafia happy.

[T_H_0_R]

 

Sure i was being a bit dramatic, there will be some foolish enough to pick a fight with a cruiser charging in using radar, there may even be some who manage to cap and GTFO before the cruisers catch up...

The question is, do you honestly think you can survive for 20 seconds or more against a cruiser who is purposely hunting just for you and will more than likely be within 10km, how many times have you been spotted by a cruiser at this sort of range and almost been immediately destroyed because crazy fast shells and tight spreads at such a low range...

 

For DDs to remain relevant in the capping area of the game, at least at the beginning of random battle mode games, allied ships must fire on the cruisers charging in without hesitation, a bit like when you as a DD flush out an enemy DD barely 10km away from friendly cruisers/battleships and not a single one of them fires on the enemy DD.. its just not gonna happen, unless they think they can snipe the kill they wont bother "wasting shots on something that cant be hit"

 

The point is, the aspect of destroyers most people complain about is the endless waves of torpedoes being spammed, that is not going to be fixed by the radar, its going to become worse with far fewer DDs scouting or hunting enemy DDs.

 

Yes radar is situational, yes it has a short duration and long cooldown, but its more than powerful enough to near guarantee the death of a DD caught out by it. (20s is enough for 2 salvos on most cruisers, more than enough)

How many cruisers are going to immediately grab radar when its out.. hmm a bit like the question of how many would take the acquisition module to counter torps when it got buffed...

 

At the end of the day radars are going to encourage a gameplay style that is detrimental to the enjoyment of other players.

 

Back to the topic of limiting the number of DDs, what happens then? the only non limited ship type will be cruiser, which pretty much means almost all battles will have near identical numbers of each ship type.. what happens when there are not enough cruisers online?? 4BB+3DD vs 4BB+3DD games.. sounds fun but very broken

 

WG needs to get a handle of the balance so one type of ship is not significantly more rewarding than others, if this is done correctly the need for limits should go away.

 

I respect your opinion, but I still disagree. No, I will not rush into a cap if I see RU/USN CA. I will though, ask friendly ships to focus fire on her and drive her away. And I will be very careful when engaging one outside of cap.

 

The way I see it, this will only enforce (or require) higher level of team work. From a perspective of a CA player, in particular New Orleans - I can't tell you how many times I felt helpless during the match where there were DDs infront. DDs that I couldn't see, could do nothing against since behind them was a BB that would have deleted me in one salvo.

 

CAs are often asked to screen for DDs. Stealth firing, firing from smoke, stealth torping - there isn't any thing you can do but evasive maneuvering. Yes, radar is badly needed here. Extremely bad.

 

The so called torp walls people complain about - any good player will have to come closer to his detection range for a good torp run. Firing from far away, +10km is perhaps a tactic some use with Kagero and Shima, but I assure you if you want a kill - you need to get close. Same goes for gunboat DDs. Radar will affect those as well.

 

Tactics will evolve and people will adapt. Because right now, no matter how you put it - team which has more (lets say equally capable) DDs wins in 99% time.

[Capra76]

A good start would be fixing MM so you don't get crazy 7:2 imbalances, especially on 3 cap domination.

[ghostbuster_]

 

 

Actually it's worse than that.

 

 

If you think about the way a first in first out system would work you'd continually have more DD being added to the pool than are leaving it, so the waiting times would grow until they reached a point where enough players were getting p***ed and leaving without getting a match, can't see WG being too keen on de facto banning 20% of the high tier players just to keep the noisy BB mafia happy.

 

it has nothing to do with BB mafia or with other mafias. its just broken for all type of ships. 

[Ilya_Wolf]

A good start would be fixing MM so you don't get crazy 7:2 imbalances, especially on 3 cap domination.

 

This, a simple +/- 1 "mirrored" system to make sure each team has at least similar numbers would be fine.

Today i even got into a high tier match with only one dd per team! It was somewhat bizarre..

[Capra76]

 

it has nothing to do with BB mafia or with other mafias. its just broken for all type of ships. 

 

 

So fix what's broken rather than impose an arbitrary cap on one particular class.

[ghostbuster_]

 

 

So fix what's broken rather than impose an arbitrary cap on one particular class.

 

if this particular class is the reason, yes.

[Spithas]

 

 

So fix what's broken rather than impose an arbitrary cap on one particular class.

 

That's what broken (DD Numbers) you mental midget.... 

 

Also about Ilya_Wolf's "what if no CAs argument". Cruisers are the 2nd most played class in the game after DDs. But thanks for trying.

[Ilya_Wolf]

 

That's what broken (DD Numbers) you mental midget.... 

 

Also about Ilya_Wolf's "what if no CAs argument". Cruisers are the 2nd most played class in the game after DDs. But thanks for trying.

 

That totally explains the games with only 1-2 cruiser per team then, while we have lots of BB and DD, during EU prime time i am referring to also...

I give up, some people just cannot comprehend how damaging to this game a few minutes waiting for every single match would be.

Maybe they are gonna restrict the number of DDs per battle, maybe you will be so blind to not even notice because you still get reasonable games, maybe WG wont even notice until its too late.

 

By all means, lets suggest more ways to ruin the game. We just need to chase away another 10,000 players and we can start making the "game is dead" threads here 

[Capra76]

 

That's what broken (DD Numbers) you mental midget.... 

 

Also about Ilya_Wolf's "what if no CAs argument". Cruisers are the 2nd most played class in the game after DDs. But thanks for trying.

 

 

Wrong halfwit, it's a symptom of what's broken not the problem itself.

 

 

Fix the problem, not the symptom, it's not that complicated.

[ghostbuster_]

ok but the only problem is high numers of dds and the reason for that is the buffs they got. More stealth and faster torps. so do are you suggesting to take the buffs back?

 

[Capra76]

ok but the only problem is high numers of dds and the reason for that is the buffs they got. More stealth and faster torps. so do are you suggesting to take the buffs back?

 

If you can demonstrate that DD are OP then I have no problem with a nerf, but since all the stats indicate that they aren't there's a good chance that the number of DD's are a response to balance issues elsewhere in the game.

[mtm78]

ok but the only problem is high numers of dds and the reason for that is the buffs they got. More stealth and faster torps. so do are you suggesting to take the buffs back?

 

Not really, the problem is lack if CV's at top tier, and if you have them it's a long shot if you got one which knows how to properly use one ( yes yes... some will argue CV's are dedicated damage whores and spotting Shimakazes isn't in the job description, and yes usually you do win most of your games and do tons of damage but trust me your team will love you if you park a plane over a DD even if you don't get as much damage... ofc sinking them is even better! ). 

 

edit:

 

And in addition to that, it's other DD's also playing as damage whores instead of screening for team. And who can really blame them, spotting damage isn't in the game so why risk your ship 'for the team' if it's not directly rewarded? Personally, me, I do screen, because I like winning more than losing. But, I can't fault anyone thinking differently. 

[BillydSquid]

 

Not really, the problem is lack if CV's at top tier, and if you have them it's a long shot if you got one which knows how to properly use one ( yes yes... some will argue CV's are dedicated damage whores and spotting Shimakazes isn't in the job description, and yes usually you do win most of your games and do tons of damage but trust me your team will love you if you park a plane over a DD even if you don't get as much damage... ofc sinking them is even better! ). 

 

edit:

 

And in addition to that, it's other DD's also playing as damage whores instead of screening for team. And who can really blame them, spotting damage isn't in the game so why risk your ship 'for the team' if it's not directly rewarded? Personally, me, I do screen, because I like winning more than losing. But, I can't fault anyone thinking differently. 

 

Unfortunately if you're relying on other classes like CVs to keep another class in check then that element of the the game has failed. We've seen it when CVs got nerfed, DDs got completely out of control. Relying on simple blind luck that a CV will be in the game, let alone play competently or want to spot, is a frankly a disaster. 

 

Hopefully the buffs to hydroacoustic and the incoming radar will mitigate high tier DDs. Hopefully the IJN and KM get radar in the same way that the USN and IJN got weaker versions of sonar compared to the German cruisers. If not, then the Shimi still needs a nerf, namely the ridiculous torpedo range of 20km, which lets it saturate an entire are. It can completely miss it's intended target at 6km (currently undetectable) and still hit a target 5+km behind with no risk to itself. No other DD can do that. hence we see Shimi's popping up everywhere.

[mtm78]

 

Unfortunately if you're relying on other classes like CVs to keep another class in check then that element of the the game has failed. We've seen it when CVs got nerfed, DDs got completely out of control. Relying on simple blind luck that a CV will be in the game, let alone play competently or want to spot, is a frankly a disaster. 

 

Hopefully the buffs to hydroacoustic and the incoming radar will mitigate high tier DDs. Hopefully the IJN and KM get radar in the same way that the USN and IJN got weaker versions of sonar compared to the German cruisers. If not, then the Shimi still needs a nerf, namely the ridiculous torpedo range of 20km, which lets it saturate an entire are. It can completely miss it's intended target at 6km (currently undetectable) and still hit a target 5+km behind with no risk to itself. No other DD can do that. hence we see Shimi's popping up everywhere.

 

That is rather one sided.. you want to know how many times I CAN'T use my 16km torps ( 5kt for 20% range decrease yes please ) because if I miss I might hit allies behind my targets?

 

And no, radar will help, but CV's are still the main counter to hidden DD's with allied DD's being the second hard counter, screening and pushing enemy DD's with the support of cruisers. Only after that, the new cruisers with radar can be considered a hard counter. 

[BillydSquid]

 

That is rather one sided.. you want to know how many times I CAN'T use my 16km torps ( 5kt for 20% range decrease yes please ) because if I miss I might hit allies behind my targets?

 

And no, radar will help, but CV's are still the main counter to hidden DD's with allied DD's being the second hard counter, screening and pushing enemy DD's with the support of cruisers. Only after that, the new cruisers with radar can be considered a hard counter. 

 

Not really, you know the games in islands of ice when DDs sit in the middle of the map and spam 20km torpedoes into the general area of the enemy team, 1 shimi even 2 is manageable, but once you hit 3 all hell breaks loose.

 

If you've selected 15km torpedoes, excluding torpedo acceleration because it doesn't make a huge difference 5kt in this senario. Then max detection you're undetectable outside 6km, so you can launch torpedoes miss the target and hit the enemy ships behind with 10km headroom. It's why the Shimi is so good when it comes to area saturation. We're not talking of situations where lines become blurred and risk hitting your ownside, rather the behaviour which you see in the initial stages of the game when multiple Shimis rush forwards and launch a wall or torpedoes at no risk to themselves and the game devolves into 20 minutes of weaving through torpedo salvoes. 

 

Then the system of hard counters has failed. If you're reliant on a CV to counter a DD then that aspect of the game has failed. I've had more than enough higher tier games where there is no CV and if there is more that 3 DDs then the it's impossible to counter the DDs, exacerbated by the inconsistent MM and if your DDs are competent and even try to spot enemy DDs rather than rush off and attack BBs. It's blind luck. If a soft counter system is available, which I think Radar is more than a Hard counter that goes at least some way to mitigating DDs in higher tiers, it doesn't have to neutralise them like a CV or a competent DD does, just allowing a CA to spot a DD hiding inside 9km is a huge advantage considering aimed torpedoes are usually launched between 6/7km 

 

You can probably answer this given you'll have more contact with the devs than the rest of us. 

Is Radar limited to Soviet and USN CAs only or do the German and IJN get a weaker version of radar?

Will Hydro Acoustic Sonar be buffed across all lines?

 

If yes to the above, it'd go a long way to give CAs a thing to fight DDs in higher tiers, as their current ability set up is very situational.

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

 

Not really, the problem is lack if CV's at top tier, and if you have them it's a long shot if you got one which knows how to properly use one ( yes yes... some will argue CV's are dedicated damage whores and spotting Shimakazes isn't in the job description, and yes usually you do win most of your games and do tons of damage but trust me your team will love you if you park a plane over a DD even if you don't get as much damage... ofc sinking them is even better! ). 

 

edit:

 

And in addition to that, it's other DD's also playing as damage whores instead of screening for team. And who can really blame them, spotting damage isn't in the game so why risk your ship 'for the team' if it's not directly rewarded? Personally, me, I do screen, because I like winning more than losing. But, I can't fault anyone thinking differently. 

Given the alck of high tier CV players perhaps WG should just face the fact that not enough wants to play carriers and change the game mechanics according so that DDs are detected far earlier than now - perhaps remove the tier VIII camo module could be a good start.

[BillydSquid]

Given the alck of high tier CV players perhaps WG should just face the fact that not enough wants to play carriers and change the game mechanics according so that DDs are detected far earlier than now - perhaps remove the tier VIII camo module could be a good start.

 

I'm not sure that's a good idea, as it'd mean Russian DDs get hit really hard, they've already got weak torpedoes, so they're more reliant on guns. They might be tough for a DD, but if a CA can keep them spotted, they're in trouble.

 

As to the lack of CVs in higher tier, yeah that's the most glaring problem at the moment.

[ghostbuster_]

 

Not really, the problem is lack if CV's at top tier, and if you have them it's a long shot if you got one which knows how to properly use one ( yes yes... some will argue CV's are dedicated damage whores and spotting Shimakazes isn't in the job description, and yes usually you do win most of your games and do tons of damage but trust me your team will love you if you park a plane over a DD even if you don't get as much damage... ofc sinking them is even better! ). 

 

edit:

 

And in addition to that, it's other DD's also playing as damage whores instead of screening for team. And who can really blame them, spotting damage isn't in the game so why risk your ship 'for the team' if it's not directly rewarded? Personally, me, I do screen, because I like winning more than losing. But, I can't fault anyone thinking differently. 

 

i can only agree with what you said here. i also try my best to screen for my team. but it doesnt matter if there are 6-7 dds in enemy team. i think people prefer IJP dds because they are easy to play. stay out of detection range. there is lack of cvs like you have already said.  so it is not that hard to stay undetected. spam torps, from 7-8km thats it. 

[Capra76]

 

Not really, you know the games in islands of ice when DDs sit in the middle of the map and spam 20km torpedoes into the general area of the enemy team, 1 shimi even 2 is manageable, but once you hit 3 all hell breaks loose.

 

 

 

Isn't that bad map design as much as anything else?

 

 

It does explain why I've always hated that map, I'm out front in the middle trying to do my job and everyone else is hiding in the islands doing, well frankly nothing.

[mtm78]

 

Not really, you know the games in islands of ice when DDs sit in the middle of the map and spam 20km torpedoes into the general area of the enemy team, 1 shimi even 2 is manageable, but once you hit 3 all hell breaks loose.

 

If you've selected 15km torpedoes, excluding torpedo acceleration because it doesn't make a huge difference 5kt in this senario. Then max detection you're undetectable outside 6km, so you can launch torpedoes miss the target and hit the enemy ships behind with 10km headroom. It's why the Shimi is so good when it comes to area saturation. We're not talking of situations where lines become blurred and risk hitting your ownside, rather the behaviour which you see in the initial stages of the game when multiple Shimis rush forwards and launch a wall or torpedoes at no risk to themselves and the game devolves into 20 minutes of weaving through torpedo salvoes. 

 

If your allied DD's screen properly these initial torp walls can be avoided, it's only a real issue if no DD screens between potential enemy DD location and your main fleet. As I am trying to say more then a couple of times already -> team work is what matters. However, one of the reasons we don't see it that much is because screening isn't rewarded in experience. 

 

Then the system of hard counters has failed. If you're reliant on a CV to counter a DD then that aspect of the game has failed. I've had more than enough higher tier games where there is no CV and if there is more that 3 DDs then the it's impossible to counter the DDs, exacerbated by the inconsistent MM and if your DDs are competent and even try to spot enemy DDs rather than rush off and attack BBs. It's blind luck. If a soft counter system is available, which I think Radar is more than a Hard counter that goes at least some way to mitigating DDs in higher tiers, it doesn't have to neutralise them like a CV or a competent DD does, just allowing a CA to spot a DD hiding inside 9km is a huge advantage considering aimed torpedoes are usually launched between 6/7km 

 

This shouldn't be the case since if the enemy has 3 or more DD's your team should have closely matching numbers. Again, it falls back on teamwork.

 

You can probably answer this given you'll have more contact with the devs than the rest of us. 

Is Radar limited to Soviet and USN CAs only or do the German and IJN get a weaker version of radar?

Will Hydro Acoustic Sonar be buffed across all lines?

 

 

If yes to the above, it'd go a long way to give CAs a thing to fight DDs in higher tiers, as their current ability set up is very situational.

 

Answered in the post. 

 

Given the alck of high tier CV players perhaps WG should just face the fact that not enough wants to play carriers and change the game mechanics according so that DDs are detected far earlier than now - perhaps remove the tier VIII camo module could be a good start.

 

CV numbers are picking up already ( mind you I don't play tier X really so it's hear say for the most part, but when I end up in tier X with my Kagero or tier 8 ships there is pretty often a carrier in the last week or two ). 

 

Again, just as I said above, I really think teamwork is the most lacking factor atm. Even in games with 5 tier X dd's I've had good games as long as I in my DD or my allied DD's play properly ( yes, even without carriers ). Still, personally, trying to lower concealment rating of some of the DD's might work but I still rather have WG implemented proper rewards for teamplay ( though, how this would look like, I don't know. Screening is passive, and assisted damage sounds nice but once a ship fires it is spotted anyway if it's in range of most other enemies ( stealth firing is 'advanced tactics' and only viable in certain situations ) ). 

 

 

I'm not sure that's a good idea, as it'd mean Russian DDs get hit really hard, they've already got weak torpedoes, so they're more reliant on guns. They might be tough for a DD, but if a CA can keep them spotted, they're in trouble.

 

As to the lack of CVs in higher tier, yeah that's the most glaring problem at the moment.

 

It could be possible to not touch the RU DD's and just adjust some of the IJN one's. Though, that would bring balance issues as well, Kagero big selling point is cammo, the 2x4 launcher setup is crap, it's slow, it can't get into gun fights with same tier USN and RU DD's by design and so on. Shima, well it will always have it's 3x5 launcher setup with fast long range torps, concealment for it is not the biggest asset ( I haven't played it on live so I am not sure meta really allows my statements here, take it with a grain of salt please ). 

 

 

 

 

[BillydSquid]

 

Answered in the post. 

 

If your allied DD's screen properly these initial torp walls can be avoided, it's only a real issue if no DD screens between potential enemy DD location and your main fleet. As I am trying to say more then a couple of times already -> team work is what matters. However, one of the reasons we don't see it that much is because screening isn't rewarded in experience. 

 

This shouldn't be the case since if the enemy has 3 or more DD's your team should have closely matching numbers. Again, it falls back on teamwork.

 

 

If, it's a big if in random games. The DDs that do try to spot and screen CAs vs enemy DDs I actually don't mind getting close and risking taking a torpedo. Sitting back and sniping in a Roon is boring, yeah I've got a range of 17.8km but closing to within 15km is far better and more fun. That all goes out thw window when your team's DDs are playing grab arse in the corner with an enemy BB. I get what you're saying, team work is key, I agree. What I am emphasising is random is random. I can ask so many times in chat for a DD to help spot and I've no idea if someone will pay attention, it's the nature of random battles. 

 

I actually agree on the spotting point, it's why CVs and DDs often behave like damage whores in random battles. If spotting gave a point reward for each new ship spotted even a small one, or +15 for each second you keep a new ship spotted, caped at say 150pts or something, I'm coming up with it off the top of my head, it'd encourage "team" play. Same with the CV fighter loadout, it's currently the poorer choice for CVs. It's so useful for me when I'm playing the Roon to have fighters spotting and engaging enemy bombers, but it's rare you get a CV with a fighter loadout. 

 

Again to the point of team play, it's a random battle and a big if. If the game is solely reliant on a CV or DD to counter enemy DDs then that aspect of the game has failed. The latest patch seems to have addressed the wildly different DD numbers, the last 15/20 games have been reasonably well balanced in terms of distribution. 

 

Now Radar and the potential buffs to Sonar, if it's given to all CA lines will certainly level the playing field and mitigate the randomness of games and DD high tier dominance. It'll never be a counter to DDs like a CV or DD will be, which is fine, but there are situations when a CA is forced to engage a DD on their own. Stating well you have to work as a team isn't going to cut it in the actual game given the practical realities don't allow for exclusive counters to be effective every time given the random nature of games and the composition of teams. Hard counters which you've mentioned simply exacerbate existing imbalances. 

[BillydSquid]

 

Isn't that bad map design as much as anything else?

 

 

It does explain why I've always hated that map, I'm out front in the middle trying to do my job and everyone else is hiding in the islands doing, well frankly nothing.

 

No, it highlights current problems in the game by making them more obvious. 

 

If there's no terrain to hide behind then CAs in particular are open to huge damage inflicted by torpedo walls which can be almost impossible to dodge, and you can't spot the DDs launching them if your DDs bugger off and decide to play grab arse with a BB, so you're screwed. It's what I've said before, if the counters to a problem are reliant on simple blind luck then that element of the game has failed. 

 

It's what we saw when CVs got nerfed into the ground, DDs got out of control as there was little in the way of effective other counters, and no, "team" work in random battles is not an effective counter, it's pure luck that the team will work together or listen to each other. 

 

Radar and sonar seem to have helped looking at Flamu's videos, if that is spread across all CA lines in T8+ like Huydo acoustic sonar is then it gives CAs a means of countering DDs which they currently can't without a suicide run. It's never be effective as a CV or a DD played competently given the limited use, time, recharge and range, but it's something a decent player can work with. 

 

If we still have walls of torpedoes from Shimis then the problem is with that DD rather than the entire DD class, we already know T8+ is where problems start, T1-6 is reasonably well balanced at the moment. 

 

I'm hoping WG will make spotting rewarded in updates soon, as I've elaborated on before. It might stop DDs and CV behaving like damage whores and foster better "team" play even among random games if players are rewarded for playing in a way that benefits the team than just themselves. 

[Spellfire40]

 

No, it highlights current problems in the game by making them more obvious.

 

If there's no terrain to hide behind then CAs in particular are open to huge damage inflicted by torpedo walls which can be almost impossible to dodge, and you can't spot the DDs launching them if your DDs bugger off and decide to play grab arse with a BB, so you're screwed. It's what I've said before, if the counters to a problem are reliant on simple blind luck then that element of the game has failed.

 

It's what we saw when CVs got nerfed into the ground, DDs got out of control as there was little in the way of effective other counters, and no, "team" work in random battles is not an effective counter, it's pure luck that the team will work together or listen to each other.

 

Radar and sonar seem to have helped looking at Flamu's videos, if that is spread across all CA lines in T8+ like Huydo acoustic sonar is then it gives CAs a means of countering DDs which they currently can't without a suicide run. It's never be effective as a CV or a DD played competently given the limited use, time, recharge and range, but it's something a decent player can work with.

 

If we still have walls of torpedoes from Shimis then the problem is with that DD rather than the entire DD class, we already know T8+ is where problems start, T1-6 is reasonably well balanced at the moment.

 

I'm hoping WG will make spotting rewarded in updates soon, as I've elaborated on before. It might stop DDs and CV behaving like damage whores and foster better "team" play even among random games if players are rewarded for playing in a way that benefits the team than just themselves.

 

You cant spread Radar to all CAs. DD survivability depends on stealth. They allready have some of the worst survivability rates of all classes. Some CA hav less detection range than some of the Radar ratings we know. If you cant react to a threat before it hit you in a DD you as good as dead. If thats the case you will see total RNG atack from DDs now hiding 2ed line beou nd Cruisers.Till low detectability Radar cruisers are dealt with.

 

 As for Shima "walls" anything that gives a decent chance to survive a concentrated syncononized atack form multiple shimas (wich is actually a rare thing) will totally wreck all other Torpedo depended DDs. I had a Game in a Kagaro were a Lexi constantly had planes im my atack vector. It ended up with 0 Torp hits without being able to do anything about that.

[BillydSquid]

 

You cant spread Radar to all CAs. DD survivability depends on stealth. They allready have some of the worst survivability rates of all classes. Some CA hav less detection range than some of the Radar ratings we know. If you cant react to a threat before it hit you in a DD you as good as dead. If thats the case you will see total RNG atack from DDs now hiding 2ed line beou nd Cruisers.Till low detectability Radar cruisers are dealt with.

 

 As for Shima "walls" anything that gives a decent chance to survive a concentrated syncononized atack form multiple shimas (wich is actually a rare thing) will totally wreck all other Torpedo depended DDs. I had a Game in a Kagaro were a Lexi constantly had planes im my atack vector. It ended up with 0 Torp hits without being able to do anything about that.

 

The same was said when Hydro acoustic was brought in, the death of DDs was predicted. Yeah, that didn't happen did it? You know why they've got the worst survivability rates? Average statistics, they are crap and stupid, don't use them.

 

You're equating lower tier DDs with a Shimi. In lower tiers they've not got the modules, captain skills and more often the players are new and don't know the mechanics of the game, by the time you hit the Shimi they will have all the benefits of concealment, although you can't account for crap players which will get themselves killed by bum rushing the enemy team. Statistical interpretation using a single average across an entire class of ten tiers is a fool's errand as are the people that use them. 

 

Their stealth doesn't change they're still undetectable outside of 6km, you just can't sail around with impunity and spam torpedoes, occasionally a CA might activate Radar or if it's buffed HAS, Radar lasts for less than 30 seconds I believe, limited in use and has a recharge rate of 5 minutes. 

 

It won't affect survivability against co ordinated torpedo attacks,  it still won't spot torpedoes, you might be able to spot several DDs for less than 30 seconds, 20 seconds I believe. If as a DD you can't adapt to 20 seconds of exposure, that player is crapand needs to get better. vs 2 or 3 DDs launching torpedoes at a T8+ CA with a turning circle of 800m at perpendicular angles, that CA is still screwed, it's going to take at least 1 torpedo. 

 

So you had a lucky game with a CV spotting you, great now we can only hope that the other games will have a competent CV or DD interested in spotting, if a CV is even in the game at all. Considering Radar and if it's buffed Sonar doesn't give constant spotting ability, what was your point? That a CV can spot? Yes this is already known, the issue is finding one and one which will actually spot instead of being a damage whore.