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Why New Orleans?

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Just any asking about my new-acquired New Orleans ship.

 

Why New Orleans USN cruiser has 4000/5000 HP less tha oters same-tier cruisers?

 

Why she has an amount of HP compareing tier 7 cruisers?

 

Is New Orleans so powerful to need a such penalization?

 

IMO New Orleans is less powerful than Pensacola...that's true or only a my impression?

 

ty

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[HEROS]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
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Imagine the worst tier VIII cruiser.

 

That's New Orleans. Also, imagine the worst tier IX cruiser - that's Baltimore. Enjoy.

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Indeed. Right now there is no point in playing tier VII+ CA's at all. After 5.4 there might be a reason. As for now I'm only playing team battles.

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Indeed. Right now there is no point in playing tier VII+ CA's at all. After 5.4 there might be a reason. As for now I'm only playing team battles.

 

Surprised to hear this from one of the definite best CA players, especially considering how bloody many DDs there are at high tier atm... 

As an afterthought however i agree with u, with so many DDs the BBs stay sniping at max distance and the CAs become the main focus of the enemy team making it rather tough to play out the potential of CAs atm.. and well, commonly known fact that can't be stated enough: US CAs do not perform well at max distance making them rather dull in 5.3...

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When I unlocked it firstly (was still a relatively new player then) I thought the ship was just awful. I sold it quite fast. Now, months later, I decided to rebuy it since in running out of ships to play with, and the ship is just AMAZING. AP can citadel ships like Iowa and you can get 5-10k AP salvos on BBs easily. I only use HE against DDs and angled targets. Always try to stick close to someone and at max range from opponents and you should be able to preform in this ship.

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It's not exactly that you can't do well - you surely can! Divisioning with a stealthy DD that provides spot, or even better a CV - and you can have great games! But when you play solo you will always bump into a DD wall:
a) either your BB are so scared to move that game is a stagnant 15 minutes slugoff, with First Blood happening around 10 minute into game.

b) BB don't care and get butchered by torps, BB and CA's in 5 minutes tops.

c) DD of one team are much worse then those on the other team and get stomped hard, at which point you're at the mercy of opposing team.
All this scenarios are utterly boring and unsatisfying. It got so ridiculous recently, that I actually stopped playing Roon, although it's a great cruiser - I'm just not interested in gameplay on tiers VIII+ right now. It's even worse then "BB happy hours" pre 5.1 patch
 

 When I unlocked it firstly (was still a relatively new player then) I thought the ship was just awful. I sold it quite fast. Now, months later, I decided to rebuy it since in running out of ships to play with, and the ship is just AMAZING. AP can citadel ships like Iowa and you can get 5-10k AP salvos on BBs easily. I only use HE against DDs and angled targets. Always try to stick close to someone and at max range from opponents and you should be able to preform in this ship. 

Well. I played all tier VIII CA's, apart from Kutuzov (which I intend to get now). And NO is by far the worst. First - giant citadel. Only CA that is easier to cit on tier VIII is Mogami, but only by fraction of an inch. NO is very fragile. Second - crap guns. Ballistics are very poor. AP can pen broadsided CA's and do decent damage on broadsided BB (few of them at least, and on very close range) - but any angling immediately turns AP almost useless. Which brings us the 3rd flaw - HE are dealing poor damage with poor fire chance. Only GE CA are worse here, but at least Hipper got good AP and torps to boot. Next - poor AA. Recent patch nerfed AA on NO - screw logic right? Next - no torpedoes. Next - poor torpedo protection - you will take a huge chunks of damage when you plop on some torp. Hipper and Atago have much better underwater protection (that's historical accuracy for you - Astoria, Quincy and Vincennes case). 
I played NO in rankeds and after 50 (or so) games I reached rank V, but my nerves were on the brink of exploding. I recently grinded Hipper - wooooah man, what a difference. On randoms Hipper is great. 


 

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Well. I played all tier VIII CA's, apart from Kutuzov (which I intend to get now). And NO is by far the worst. First - giant citadel. Only CA that is easier to cit on tier VIII is Mogami, but only by fraction of an inch. NO is very fragile. Second - crap guns. Ballistics are very poor. AP can pen broadsided CA's and do decent damage on broadsided BB (few of them at least, and on very close range) - but any angling immediately turns AP almost useless. Which brings us the 3rd flaw - HE are dealing poor damage with poor fire chance. Only GE CA are worse here, but at least Hipper got good AP and torps to boot. Next - poor AA. Recent patch nerfed AA on NO - screw logic right? Next - no torpedoes. Next - poor torpedo protection - you will take a huge chunks of damage when you plop on some torp. Hipper and Atago have much better underwater protection (that's historical accuracy for you - Astoria, Quincy and Vincennes case). 

I played NO in rankeds and after 50 (or so) games I reached rank V, but my nerves were on the brink of exploding. I recently grinded Hipper - wooooah man, what a difference. On randoms Hipper is great. 

 

 

 

AP vs BBs is the opposite in my experience. For example vs Yamato. I've had decent 3-10k salvos from 10km+, but as soon as I got to closer range all I got was 400-1k dmg.

HE is kinda trollish, sometimes I get nice 5k+ salvos but sometimes all I do is destroy a bunch of AA which can be annoying.

 

As for the weak citadel, it is indeed true, which is why I said he should stick to max range because it makes shell avoiding much easier.

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It depends on angle. Range is just a bonus factor, but angle means more here. When BB shows you full broadside you can put decent hurt on it (10k dmg on BB never happened to me on Yamato though). But when said Yamato shows you only front or is nicely angled - forget about decent damage.

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Indeed. Right now there is no point in playing tier VII+ CA's at all. After 5.4 there might be a reason. As for now I'm only playing team battles.

 

why is that?...BS kills you in one salvo?

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 why is that?...BS kills you in one salvo? 

I'm sorry to bother you good sir, but you should really try to use this amazing skill, invented and perfected by humanity for millenia, and called "reading":

 

 

It's not exactly that you can't do well - you surely can! Divisioning with a stealthy DD that provides spot, or even better a CV - and you can have great games! But when you play solo you will always bump into a DD wall:
a) either your BB are so scared to move that game is a stagnant 15 minutes slugoff, with First Blood happening around 10 minute into game.

b) BB don't care and get butchered by torps, BB and CA's in 5 minutes tops.

c) DD of one team are much worse then those on the other team and get stomped hard, at which point you're at the mercy of opposing team.
All this scenarios are utterly boring and unsatisfying. It got so ridiculous recently, that I actually stopped playing Roon, although it's a great cruiser - I'm just not interested in gameplay on tiers VIII+ right now. It's even worse then "BB happy hours" pre 5.1 patch

Enjoy your read!

 

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Well to answer the OP - I really see no reason why NO has so little HP. Its somewhat small which make her take less damage then other t8 cruisers, but its very minor advantage. I wouldnt say its easy to citadel - well it is, but not compared to Mogami or Hipper - I wouldnt really say its any worse in that aspect. It also lacks torpedoes, which while not used that often act as a deterrent on other cruisers. 

 

So yes, I really dont see why i cant be at least on jap level in HP, or even slightly higher. I also think it could use a slight buff to ROF (along with Baltimore). Lack of torpedoes means you are a one trick pony - and while torps are very situational on both Mogami and Hipper, they do sometimes bring a lot of joy. Early todays morning, i actually died with hipper while desperately trying to defend cap. I was hiding behind and island and trying to defend until enemy fleet was on top of me. Nothing more satisfying then slowly sinking but watching all 12 hipper torps go towards 2 BBs on either side - i got 10/12 torp hits and 80k+ extra damage "post mortem". You cant do that in NO - if you meet a BB you are dead, no matter how well you play. So i feel its strengths should be a bit more pronounced - and ROF seems like a very good spot (to also give us faster shell switching - on japs you can basically default to HE, on germans to AP, but NO is the most demanding cruiser when it comes to firing right type of shell at right time). 

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I'm sorry to bother you good sir, but you should really try to use this amazing skill, invented and perfected by humanity for millenia, and called "reading":

 

Enjoy your read!

 

 

Still did not get answer why you do not help ypour "bad" dds and stomp on oponents dd.....i get that there are "snipers" BS...and bad spaming torps from 15 km dds...but still did not get answer or idea why "you" as Cruiser do not push theirs dd in defence

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Still did not get answer why you do not help ypour "bad" dds and stomp on oponents dd.....i get that there are "snipers" BS...and bad spaming torps from 15 km dds...but still did not get answer or idea why "you" as Cruiser do not push theirs dd in defence

Why is that? Do you play on higher tiers? How most of DD evaporate in first few minutes? Yup, they pop torpedoes from enemy DD's - not much I can do as a CA to help them with it. That's one thing. Second is: I'm usually spotted long before I can spot enemy DD's, even before our DD's can spot each other, so the enemy DD will plop it's torpedoes into water and just retreat/wait for support. And so it goes. "Pushing" into defence doesn't mean nothing if you can't keep your advantage. Also, I think that actually, troublemaker for example can confirm how far ahead I tend to play, since I was once tanking his Zao and few other ships at once. So, please, let me know how do you stomp opponents DD's - will gladly learn something new!

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Relax Dropsiq you take stuff way too personal. Regardless Dropsiq is sort of right. The problem right now at high tiers goes a bit deeper then just cruisers (although they are the part of it). Problem comes from DDs having very long range torpedoes in my opinion - and current countermeasures are inadequate.

 

Compared to lower tier, most stuff has some "parity". The increase in damage, is somewhat countered by higher hp of ships and so on. However there is one thing that doesnt really get equalized - its the range of the engagement. Im not whining about lets say Shimakazes as ships - they might be on the strong side. I have however a problem what such style of playing does to the game. When the range on torpedoes pushes the opposing forces to a stalemate 20km apart the following happens - each of those might be ok on its own but the whole picture gets meh at the end.

 

1) DDs become pretty much unkillable by BBs. BBs with their dispersion (for some reason no BB gets more accurate with tiers - its just nation/distance parameter), have trouble to kill them.

2) BBs are afraid to push

3) 1)+2) means that cruisers become priority targets for BBs on both sides. As a BB you can shoot DDs (not very effectively at 15km assuming they are even spotted), other BBs (only really semi-useful in Yamatos at all), but they will hardly DIE, they can lose hp/repair and it doesnt help much. So obviously any lit up cruiser is a chance for every BB to do SOMETHING meaningful in the battle. If the range was smaller, BBs could score hits on DDs, and if engagement range was much closer, it would actually make sense for me in a BB to target other BBs - because we would actually do meaningful damage to each other, so I could kill him, and i would actually be threatened by them.

 

So the game turns into torpedo carpets aimed not even at BBs (if i take a shima torp in a Yamato i mostly can shrug it off), but OTHER dds, and battleships hunting cruisers. 

 

One thing people say would help is adding more CVs to the meta, but actually that doesnt solve cruiser problem. Yes they spot DDs, but they also spot cruisers even better. So if cruisers try to do something (shoot DDs), they just get blown by BBs. CVs indeed will reduce number of DDs, but also shift meta toward BBs. Cruisers wont be helped.

 

What i think needs to happen, is a drastic reduction in destroyer range - of course compensated by adding them power in other aspects. Give them more damage, give them way more hp - im sure there are buffs where 7-8km range Shimakaze can be balanced. This way BBs will be able to push, and cruisers will be able to support them - often from BEHIND the BB line. Currently the engagement ranges mean cruisers must be closer then BBS - and thats suicide. Having one class being able to stall the fight as much as current high level destroyers is just unhealthy and unbalancable. Mind it - they dont even have to do damage , and very often they dont. But by sheer presence they remove any notion of actually attacking. 

 

Consider current team/ranked battles. Cruisers arent that popular there - but they are way more healthy then at tier 9-10. Thats because in rankeds BBs are way closer to each other, and you can act as support, flank and use camo to conceal yourself if focused etc. Its all about the engagement range - if BBs are capable of going close and personal, there is place for cruisers, if they arent cruisers are really useless. 

 

 

Edited by Poster_2015

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 Relax Dropsiq you take stuff way too personal. Regardless Dropsiq is sort of right. The problem right now at high tiers goes a bit deeper then just cruisers (although they are the part of it). Problem comes from DDs having very long range torpedoes in my opinion - and current countermeasures are inadequate.

Nah, I'm cool man. I've just eated my teeth on CA gameplay since beginning of CBT, so I know what I'm talking about, which sometimes can get me sarcastic. Long torps are not a problem, problem is lack of tools for detection - hence the radar consumable. But it's only a temporary tool, CV must get back to the game, and their interaction with DD must be balanced.

Rest of your post - you got some right observations and some wrong, but it's like your opinion maaan, to cite the classic. I disagree with some of your points, but I respect your opinion :D

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I dont think radar consumable will fix anything , in fact it will make stuff worse. If DDs can fear detection , they will just stay more back (16km torps anyone)? It will push the engagements even further apart and make it even harder for cruisers to do anything. Hopefully ill be proven wrong, but so far Im pretty convinced that will be the end result. 

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Nah, radar, especially on US CA will be very dangerous tool for. First of all, it's range is pretty close to detection range of CA's in question. Maybe not NO, but Baltimore and Des Moines can get their detection range to 11 km and below (I'm sorry, but don't remember the numbers for NO). Which leaves very little space and time for enemy DD captain to avoid detection and punishment. Your Situational Awareness poped out? Wait 4 - 5 sec and engage radar. This will seriously hit the DD class. In Des I can reliably hit DD on 11 km mark, on 10 km I become deadly. So, actually, it will help a lot, but it won't solve the biggest problem - lack of CV and lack of reliable BB counter. DD just stops game dead in it's tracks, BB are breaking the whole system. Bringing back CV will resolve one problem, but bring back another - DD vs CV issue. 

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NO (and Baltimore to an extent) actually has MUCH better (smaller) detection then DM - you can get it down to 9.5 (DM is what 10.7?) 

And to the main topic:

 

DD players will learn what you said too and the game will evolve into

 

BB---10km-- DD-----15km-----enemy DD---10km --- enemy BB

 

if you want to get in radar range you will be without support vs all enemy BBs who will have no other target to shoot but you. 

In regards to BB, as someone who liked to play them a lot - and who doesnt like high lvl BB play because of same stuff you talk about. Its not that BB are that insanely good vs cruisers - its the fact that they have absolutely nothing else to do. You cant push in range to be dangerous/in danger of other BB, so shooting them is kinda meh. DDs are hard to hit - cruisers are only realistic target. Make maps/games "smaller", and BBs will actually have other targets other then the CA players. Put yourself in my (well my is relative i dont play BBs that much lately more of CA player now) shoes - Im in lets say an Iowa, I see enemy Yamato 22km from me, enemy DM 17km from me, and enemy shimakaze 17km from me (spotted by the CA's radar). Who do you think ill shoot? 

 

Radar will just make DDs play closer to own BBs, while still being able to torpedo carpet. They will lose effectiveness of course, but that will just mean that high lvl games will become even slower paced and with less kills and more camping then before. 

Edited by Poster_2015

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I dont think radar consumable will fix anything , in fact it will make stuff worse. If DDs can fear detection , they will just stay more back (16km torps anyone)? It will push the engagements even further apart and make it even harder for cruisers to do anything. Hopefully ill be proven wrong, but so far Im pretty convinced that will be the end result. 

 

I sure think it will. It can not get worse than the current situation. Earlier today I lost 3 consecutive matches in NO. Two of them would have ended up way more different since I couldn't get to a Fubuki that was in smoke molesting our two North Carolinas and Shimakaze that eluded due to us having a poor CV that failed to keep him spotted just as I entered into firing range behind an island. I'd like to help cover my BBs but the game mechanics do not allow me to, no matter how hard I try.

 

3 bloody matches, all of them lost. And in all 3 I was top scorer on my team. Last one yielded 4 kills. This radar consumable should be here like yesterday! 

 

NO (and Baltimore to an extent) actually has MUCH better (smaller) detection then DM - you can get it down to 9.5 (DM is what 10.7?)

 

Yup, 9.5 with concealment upgrade and skill. 9.8 if you are using premium or reduced accuracy camo. Still good enough since her radar will have 9 km range.

 

EDIT: I'd like to add, that as a DD driver myself optimal firing range is always close or as close as possible to your own detection range. Very close to Fubuki, but already seeing a different play style needed on higher tiers with IJN DDs with Hatsuharu (and Fubuki is no speed boat in comparison), I guess this 9km radar range will make things only interesting. And finally we will have a counter to the most irritating game feature - firing from smoke.

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Just any asking about my new-acquired New Orleans ship.

 

Why New Orleans USN cruiser has 4000/5000 HP less tha oters same-tier cruisers?

 

Why she has an amount of HP compareing tier 7 cruisers?

 

Is New Orleans so powerful to need a such penalization?

 

IMO New Orleans is less powerful than Pensacola...that's true or only a my impression?

 

ty

 

It is quite powerful - them guns are sex. It's also better armored and the tactics that you developed to survive as a Pensa will make you pretty hard to kill with the NOrleans.

 

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Its a boat that got a little of it all, but not enough of anything. Its easy, as its got instant ruddershift, you can dance in this boat, go slalom between long distance bb shells. BUT you do no harm at that distance. It is a weak ship. I emptied my frustration of this boat over several posts, as it was the first tier 8 ship I got, and it performed worse than most of my tier 7 ships on same targets (its good against dd, but thats all).

I kept pensicola, as when I learned how to use it it is very good, unfortunately, NO is not. Even if they pretty much got same guns and NO do move like a ballet dancer.

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NO has 12.4 detection without camo skill or paint. It also has the lowest radar range but then again it can face T6 and T7 DDs wich are caped to 10km range Torps making it really lethal agist them (as if that would be nessesarry with anybody seeing the Shima with its 15 Tubes the real problem). But oh well WG never were known to fix the real problem without seriously screwing something else over for a few patches. Well US CA needed some kind of boost to be compeatable. Just too bad that RU will probably beat them at their game anyway and with mogami 155 mm config being unplayable it will probable comes to them to "balance" the perceived DD problems.

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It is quite powerful - them guns are sex. It's also better armored and the tactics that you developed to survive as a Pensa will make you pretty hard to kill with the NOrleans.

 

 

My average dmg is lower in NO than in Pensa. Mostly due to other T-8 CA having more HP than T-7 CA while NO retains the same HP poll as Pensa. The armor is indeed great but only when going agressive nose in, and that maneuverability allows you to easily dodge incoming torpedoes from other T-8 CA. As I demonstrate here:

 

 

The main problem of NO is like Dropsiq said, she is "one trick pony" - you only have your guns. And the opportunities where you can go head on 1 on 1 with an enemy CA are rare. Without torpedoes you can not rush a BB if a desperate situation calls for it. By the time you commit to the attack some lone BB from across the map will cit pen you since you were forced to keep your nose pointed towards the target. In the video above, I couldn't move forward until Izumo was taken cared off on my flank. But by then they had all 3 caps and it was way too late.

 

Even when the cards are dealt in your favor, you need to be on top of your game to perform well in NO like I did in this video. Employing tricks like changing speed (I deliberately slowed down and went full speed ahead after seeing that Atago dropped torpedoes) and course to throw off your enemy that is bound to use torpedoes on you in close duels like the ones shown here...

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Well. NO is a piece of crap. Just tried it again, and it is  - I cant believe it has the same guns as Pensacola, because they makes no damage what so ever, at same or tiers below it self.

 

It is quite powerful - them guns are sex. It's also better armored and the tactics that you developed to survive as a Pensa will make you pretty hard to kill with the NOrleans.

 

 

Replays, or I dont believe you! Or show stats so I can see for my selfe. Also, do you have the NO at all? At the time you hid your stats, you only had pensacola.

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