Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
t3h3th32

#bringbackAFT Website, Petition & Closure

69 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[WGP2W]
Players
984 posts
10,091 battles

Before reading this, I advise you, that you take it with a grain of salt. Despite it sounding as a crazy rant sometimes, I'm merely interested in having a friendly conversation with everyone and exchange our opinions. I respect everyone an everyone's opinion and I never intended to insult anyone.

 

All right, where to even begin. Major issue is, people will lose their attention in about 30 seconds after opening this topic and half the people clicking on it will only do so to reply with a completely, 100% pointless and off-topic comment, e.g. "learn2play", "TLTR" or "move Cleveland to tier 8" or something completely unrelated. That's unavoidable, but if you really want to get into this and reply, sacrifice at least some time and read into this. :hiding:

 

For those, who really hate reading too much, below is 1 little funny video:

 

 

http://bringbackaft.tk/

 

Now, onto the more detailed description and I'll merely glide through the highlights.

 

1. Do we really want WG to put AFT the way it was? Of course not, don't be silly. It was a game bug, where "Secondary Armament" perk influenced your main guns. This idea is simply exploring a possibility of adding DPM / traverse / range perks into the game.

 

2. Wait, traverse perk already is in the game. Yeah, 155 mm CAs are getting the same traverse boost, as Yamato. Thus splitting it between DD guns / 155 mm / 203 mm / BBs guns would work best for everyone.

 

3. Are you nuts? If you add a new AFT-like skill buffing your main guns by +20%, half the ships become OP. Yes, this is why I suggested a method of deeper ship customization mechanics. What's that? Demonstrating it on the range, it goes: ship A has firing range 14 km and maximum firing range 15,5 km vs. ship B has firing range 16 km and max. firing range also 16 km. Ship A invests 4 points, buys the skill, gains range buff of 1,5 km, then ship B buys the same captain perk and gains 0 km buff, thus is instantly ensured, no ship will so called "OVERACHIEVE". Same mechanics can be applied to DPM.

 

4. Why am I constantly crying about German ships and Kutuzov? I'm not. I love those ships. Loved playing against them and I love playing them. I grinded around 1,5 mil. XP on my Omaha, firstly went for Demolition Expert and after that for AFT to enjoy the epicness. Bought my Königsberg, the grind took me around 1 hour and I started getting similar results. Maybe luck? Maybe. Concerning Kutuzov, I'll buy it, I don't care. But it's unfair towards other people, who maybe don't have money to flush down the toilet and buy stuff in virtual reality: those people are robbed of the option to grind and improve their ships "free way".

 

5. This isn't really about ship A or B. This is about a principle. Ship X has certain stats, it's good at something and it's bad at something. Commander skills should allow you to mitigate those bad aspects of your ship or at least some of those. You can improve concealment (I bet, will also be soon removed, because many people complain about invisible ships shooting at them), you can buff AA, heals, fire chance, now even HP and suddenly range of fire is taken away? Odd choice.

 

Anyways, I've just discussed it with a bunch of people, we threw the ideas down on paper, made the site, I'll appreciate, if people spread the word, fill those polls and perhaps in the future, when the polls start reaching hundreds of votes, we can forward it to the WG developers.

 

Problem might however be the lazy people. Because AFT-thing kinda seems already a yesterday's issue and other topics are quickly flooding the forums. So, who knows? Maybe this will be a giant waste of time, I can't tell. Maybe someone, who is a moderator here makes this sticky, so stuff related to this could be discussed at lengths there and we don't get a new "Mogami sucks now" topic every week, which dies after 4 or 5 replies. Maybe, a moderator of this forum bans me instead, because this post represents a critique aimed at WG and bad press is bad press, that's usually why vast majority of YouTubers tend to stay away from anything related to WG and they rather focus at showcasing, how this ship is epic and how that ship is epic, so I don't really know, what happens now. I'm simply doing this, because many people were upset about this, it breaks the game in a certain sense, other people don't have the means to do a video or a website presentation, so I stepped in and did it and will take the heat for it, if necessary.

 

We'll see. I'm just pointing out once again, don't take anything I write too offensively or personally, it's just a stupid game, which most of us won't be playing in a couple of months from now, but you know, I stand my ground and I did something for the cause, because I feel like posting 1 rant topic won't really do much.

 

Last thing, excuse all the typos and mistakes, I know, it's AFT, not ATF, but yeah, typos happen, mate.

 

I hope, you'll have fun with the website and that's pretty much it.

 

Cheers,

~t3h'Pâr4d0x

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
2,556 posts
1,899 battles

No reason to give a buff to the range of cruisers with 155mm, as they just make 203mm useless cause you just fire from insane range, just like what happened with mogami.

Besides, cruisers don't need range to fight DD, they need a way to spot them better, most people can't hit a barn at 18km anyway, much less a DD.

Maybe you could argue that a range buff would help cruisers fight BB and help them survive, but they aren't really meant to fight BB anyway.

 

Persoanally I think the new change is fine, they just need to do something giving them a way to fight DD properly.

  • Cool 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WGP2W]
Players
984 posts
10,091 battles

nice try but it wont work ;)

 

Hard to state this publicly, but it worked absolutely flawlessly past year or perhaps even longer, than that.

 

Cheers,

~t3h'Pâr4d0x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WGP2W]
Players
984 posts
10,091 battles

No reason to give a buff to the range of cruisers with 155mm, as they just make 203mm useless cause you just fire from insane range, just like what happened with mogami.

Besides, cruisers don't need range to fight DD, they need a way to spot them better, most people can't hit a barn at 18km anyway, much less a DD.

Maybe you could argue that a range buff would help cruisers fight BB and help them survive, but they aren't really meant to fight BB anyway.

 

Persoanally I think the new change is fine, they just need to do something giving them a way to fight DD properly.

 

Giving them a buff sounds so mean, let's just call it: "returning something to CAs, what they already had".

 

203 mm wasn't useless before. 203 mms might have had a shorter range sometimes, but packed far much more damage, had bigger chance of fire, with faster velocity also came bigger accuracy. This is somewhat broken, when Germans come in play, when you realize, you can suddenly snipe over 16 km and you don't even need any captain skills for it. This whole thing revolves around ships, which are a free kill, if they're forced into brawls vs. BBs.

 

Mogami gun mounts issue was bad from the start. Before, 203 mm was a pointless choice, they fixed it by murdering 155 mm and making those guns pointless or only as a grind-through upgrade, which is silly. Each setup should benefit from something else. I'm explaining this a bit more in-depth on my blog.

 

I never ever stated, you need range to fight DDs. CAs need it, to avoid getting nuked by a noob, who plays his first game in a BB, because 12 km, you can't miss, but trying to nail a CA at 15 km might be a bit tricky. This is about CAs vs. BBs and the brutal inconsistency, there is. You want to play range snipers, play Germans or pay for it and buy MK.

 

CAs role is a multi-purpose. Argument, that 1 class isn't supposed to fight other class simply doesn't work, because then the whole game would fall apart. Agreed, that certain classes gain an automatic upper hand, when engaging other classes, but overall, each class should be able to engage any other class. And in Ranked Battles and Team Battles, there're entire tactics built on this, when even BBs load HE for the beginning and everyone tries for instance to target enemy DDs. With CAs, their primary target is to intercept enemy DDs and their secondary mission is to keep setting enemy BBs on fire. Same would probably apply for Random Battles as well.

 

I agree, their ability to counter DDs should be raised, but this thing is more centered around the ideology of: 1 ship gets a good range, why other ship isn't allowed to grind and similarly good range anymore?

 

Cheers,

~t3h'Pâr4d0x

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WGP2W]
Players
984 posts
10,091 battles

The changes made light cruisers the WEAKEST ship class.

 

Funny how anyone can really like that.

 

+ 1 for the OP

 

Not necessarily weakest, it hurt certain particular ships, thus I'm not ranting about the nerf itself, I'm ranting about the brutal inconsistency, which was their means to kill off infestation of those popular ships, e.g. Omaha, Cleveland, Mogami.

 

And it's mostly BB captains of lower tiers, who like this or higher ters, that they got rid of Mogami, but beware, soon I'm coming for you with MK + aimbot, we'll see, how you, damn BB captains, will enjoy that. :trollface:

 

But thanks for the overall support, mate.

 

Cheers,

~t3h'Pâr4d0x

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
868 posts
5,068 battles

I like this change. AFT should stay as it is now since it popularizes more "personal" fights, without long range useless sniping. Cleveland with AFT can't hit [edited] on max range, other ships as well, but it won't prevent low skilled players to spam from max distances with minimal effect. Old AFT also had one big problem - cruisers had longer range than BBs, which is unacceptable imo. 

 

 

Edited by RogDodgeUK
This post has been edited by a member of the Moderation Team, due to inappropriate content. RogDodgeUK
  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WGP2W]
Players
984 posts
10,091 battles

All right, where to even begin. Major issue is, people will lose their attention in about 30 seconds after opening this topic and half the people clicking on it will only do so to reply with a completely, 100% pointless and off-topic comment, e.g. "learn2play", "TLTR" or "move Cleveland to tier 8" or something completely unrelated.

 

ajaljf

 

Like I stated before, thank you for your very insightful answer. Having these debates, on this level, I really feel like in that YouTube video.

 

Cheers,

~t3h'Pâr4d0x

Edited by t3h3th32

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WGP2W]
Players
984 posts
10,091 battles

I like this change. AFT should stay as it is now since it popularizes more "personal" fights, without long range useless sniping. Cleveland with AFT can't hit [edited] on max range, other ships as well, but it won't prevent low skilled players to spam from max distances with minimal effect. Old AFT also had one big problem - cruisers had longer range than BBs, which is unacceptable imo.

 

Thank you for your feedback.

 

So, you're saying, AFT is bad, because it kills the game with long-range sniping? Hm. This was exactly my opinion about 4 or 5 months ago. I preferred close-range brawls, but then something happened: German CAs were introduced into the game.

 

Since then, AFT stopped being something brutally OP, but it became a tool for ships with weaker range to increase their fighting chance to even the odds. Same example with Kutuzov. I have nothing against WG in terms of them making Kutuzov strong. It's a premium ship, it should be strong. My whole issue is, in the game, there's an element (fire range), which certain ships get plenty of and other ships don't. Those unfortunate ships had the opportunity to grind and improve the range and even the fighting chance, now, this option is removed. That's the problem.

 

I agree with Cleveland. I stated this on my blog. However, if it's so weak, why remove it then? Or why vouch for it getting removed? Now, you can ask me a similar thing and say, why am I vouching for bringing it back? Simple. Diversity in the game. Although, not very effective, certain players chose to invest their 4 point into this and use the extra range as a scare tactics, simply shooting back at something, which is shooting at you, without any real hopes of hitting that target.

 

If someone wants to spam from max. distance with minimal effect, why not let him? This was seen hundreds of times, when German CAs were introduced. They just parked their T5 - T6 in a corner of a map and spammed from there, soon however realized, how useless it was. Even in my Omaha B, with 15,2 km range, I had some troubles getting consistent damage. However, when I entered the realm of 14 km, it started getting good.

 

Regarding the AFT and longer fire range, than BBs, could please state, which CAs had bigger fire range, than BBs? I know, Mogami had like 18 km, my Tirpitz has 21 km, Amagi is around 19 km?, not really sure, NC has far much more than that. My Omaha B had 15,2 km, I'm pretty sure, all T5 BBs have bigger range than that. Would be cool to get some examples. Also, if you bothered to read into my blog, I'm proposing a very elegant solution to this issue.

 

Cheers,

~t3h'Pâr4d0x

Edited by t3h3th32

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
868 posts
5,068 battles

Cleveland gets into T4 and T5 matches as well, which means that he will get to fight against BBs with low ranges. It even had longer range than Warspite. 

 

Why not let players spam from max range? Because most of those kids never learn, like in WOT. They will prefer to stay at max distance, spam for minimal effect and refuse to cap or attack. So, when the game is obviously broken and players fail to recognize that, it should be fixed. I just wish that WG deals with cruisers and DDs some more. While high tier cruisers are underwhelming, we also have hightier DD infestation that really breaks the game.

 

 Murmansk and Mogami with 155 had same problem. Everyone thought that Mogami shoul be played like that, but that was terrible experience for me. When I switched to 200mm guns, even during old AFT, ship finally started to feel right - I did more damage, lit more ships on fire, AP was awesome. But now we have one other problem - cruisers should be made a bit more resilient.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
6,753 posts
7,907 battles

Cleveland gets into T4 and T5 matches as well, which means that he will get to fight against BBs with low ranges. It even had longer range than Warspite. 

 

Why not let players spam from max range? Because most of those kids never learn, like in WOT. They will prefer to stay at max distance, spam for minimal effect and refuse to cap or attack. So, when the game is obviously broken and players fail to recognize that, it should be fixed. I just wish that WG deals with cruisers and DDs some more. While high tier cruisers are underwhelming, we also have hightier DD infestation that really breaks the game.

 

 Murmansk and Mogami with 155 had same problem. Everyone thought that Mogami shoul be played like that, but that was terrible experience for me. When I switched to 200mm guns, even during old AFT, ship finally started to feel right - I did more damage, lit more ships on fire, AP was awesome. But now we have one other problem - cruisers should be made a bit more resilient.

 

What about the Kuma?

 

Used to have 14km range with AFT, now down to 12.4km.

 

Slower ROF  + slower turret traverse too because BFT / EM not working anymore.

 

Kuma gets into tier 6 games too:

 

kuma-yooty1u.jpg

 

.....

 

Soon we will have russian cruisers ingame, including tier 4 "Svetlana"....130mm guns....so it benefits from BFT / EM / AFT.

 

UKdN7y3.png

 

With AFT it will have 13.5km range, thx to BFT it will have a higher ROF and thx to EM the turrets will turn faster.....

 

SO - russian tier 4 cruiser which benefits from BFT / EM / AFT is OKAY; and japanese tier 4 cruiser which benefits  from BFT / EM / AFT is NOT OKAY, because of BALANCE?

 

This doesn't make ANY sense to me, sry.

Edited by Trigger_Happy_Dad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,577 posts
7,346 battles

 

What about the Kuma?

 

Used to have 14km range with AFT, now down to 12.4km.

 

Slower ROF  + slower turret traverse too because BFT / EM not working anymore.

 

Kuma gets into tier 6 games too:

 

kuma-yooty1u.jpg

 

.....

 

Soon we will have russian cruisers ingame, including tier 4 "Svetlana"....130mm guns....so it benefits from BFT / EM / AFT.

 

UKdN7y3.png

 

With AFT it will have 13.5km range, thx to BFT it will have a higher ROF and thx to EM the turrets will turn faster.....

 

SO - russian tier 4 cruiser which benefits from BFT / EM / AFT is OKAY; and japanese tier 4 cruiser which benefits  from BFT / EM / AFT is NOT OKAY, because of BALANCE?

 

This doesn't make ANY sense to me, sry.

 

Wait for later russian cruisers:trollface:

 

"Mogami was nerfed because it was wrong for light cruiser to outrange heavy cruisers meanwhile let us introduce brand new stronk rashian leet kruzers with 17km range and superior ballistics to make use of that range"

 

Consistency much.

 

Also upcoming new tier 5 cruiser, Profintern (?) - 17.5km base range on 130mm guns, 21km with AFT. Comparing leaked ballistics data (shell velocity and mass) guns should handle similarly to well known 130mm DD guns.

Edited by Panocek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
6,753 posts
7,907 battles

 

Wait for later russian cruisers:trollface:

 

"Mogami was nerfed because it was wrong for light cruiser to outrange heavy cruisers meanwhile let us introduce brand new stronk rashian leet kruzers with 17km range and superior ballistics to make use of that range"

 

Consistency much.

 

Also upcoming new tier 5 cruiser, Profintern (?) - 17.5km base range on 130mm guns, 21km with AFT. Comparing leaked ballistics data (shell velocity and mass) guns should handle similarly to well known 130mm DD guns.

 

Yup, doesn't make any "balance sense" at all.

 

poor Kuma players...... I totally feel your pain

 

Np, we'll just play "russian Kuma" soon. ;)

Edited by Trigger_Happy_Dad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,577 posts
7,346 battles

 

Yup, doesn't make any "balance sense" at all.

 

 

Np, we'll just play "russian Kuma" soon. ;)

 

I guess if you don't portray russians good, you better don't portray them at all, looking back at CoH2 butthurt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Weekend Tester
430 posts

In the end, players that have just gotten to tier IV-V won't have nearly enough skill points for AFT, so the change doesn't really hurt them. While the loss of range is regrettable, for me the worst change was the loss of turret traverse speed on every cruiser. The Cleveland is a prime example of that: now the turrets of the Pensacola turn faster.

Kuma chapter: even now, it doesn't look like a bad ship imho. And yeah, I played with it post nerf in tier VI matches. I haven't played that many games on it though, so I might not know it that well.

Edited by Live85

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,130 posts
2,359 battles

I'm still in favour of simply preventing the ability working at all on primary batteries (so it would only work with AA and secondaries) and introducing a universal 20% range increase skill for main batteries that doesn't depend on calibre. Separating things based on calibre will always create awkward cutoffs where some ships get completely screwed over because of a couple of mm difference in calibre.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
6,753 posts
7,907 battles

Wait a second, you are seriously mentioning Kuma? Sealclubbing much?

 

Wait a second, you guys don't know what Langley / Hosho / Zuiho and Bogue can do atm?

 

HARDCORE SEAL CLUBBING because of faster planes and faster torps (TA Skill) since 0.5.3.

 

Even Kuma with BFT / EM / AFT couldn't strike that hard before 0.5.3.

 

So the devs had to NERF Kuma and friends because they were "sealclubbing too hard" because of unfair Range advantage against newbies, 

but gave low tier CVs the tools to just farm kills with ease now?

 

And they bring russian cruisers with LONG RANGE soon, the ones with 130mm guns will benefit from BFT / EM / AFT....

 

THIS STUFF DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL + YOU GUYS MAKE NO SENSE AT ALL.

 

End of story.

 

P.S. Guys who hide their stats are cowards. ;) 

Edited by Trigger_Happy_Dad
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,577 posts
7,346 battles

i've been playing with friends on NA and here are my 5.3.0 stats with myoko and mogami

 

 

3b0KEnG.jpg

 

 

 

Nurf Myoko OP sheep:izmena:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Supertester
3,200 posts
3,240 battles

i've been playing with friends on NA and here are my 5.3.0 stats with myoko and mogami

 

 

3b0KEnG.jpg

 

 

 

Very impressive! I don't quite get the Myoko at this point myself yet...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×