What are the f....... russiand DDs good for?

[Akula971]

There's no automatic need for smoke for citadelling cruisers met by Gnevny when positioning correctly and suprising distracted targets:

Straight angle showing Kuma takes citadel hits from 10km

Phoenix and Omaha from 9km.

Königsberg and Nürnberg up to same ballpark and Kirov isn't any tougher.

Furutaka and Aoba up to 8km.

So plenty of chances  for finding unaware cruisers occupied in something else with lower health cruiser sinking before they can find out what hit them.

 

Actually checked in Training Room that even Cleveland takes citadel hits from close enough.

But along with need to hit precisely/very close to waterline I just wouldn't count on it in actual match.

 

I did not say that you needed smoke to citadel any ship what so ever. My point is that by using smoke, you can a). fire from concealment, and b). Use your close range torpedoes to good effect. Guess English is not your first language. ;)

[GulvkluderGuld]

Used Kiev in S2 ranked (started late, made rank 4) and Tash in S3 fo 25 games, but swiftly ditched it in favour of my Benson.

RU dds are fine for Random battles, but imo not really competitive when it counts.

 

Tashy is simply put just a bigger, slower Kiev with more HP to make up for being a bigger target.

Kiev was great and was able to dodge torps reasonably well. Tashkent is basicly a torpedo magnet even with Vigilance with that terrible rudder shift.

Although rumor has it Udaloi and Khaba have better guns than Tash/Kiev, I decided to leave my Tash in port awaiting RU dd buffs before I will grind onwards.

 

So here's my problem with RU dds:

1) you want to cap? Go IJN or US dds

2) you want to smoke + shoot? US dds have better smoke and dodge sucker torps better with superior rudder shift (my most frequent cause of death in DDs are sucker torps across all nations)

    They can also take Demolitionist, giving them 8% fire chance/shell (something RU dds can't do due to needing AFT) and with experience, they can  hit BBs reliably from 10-11 km away. AP is a little meh though.

3) you want to support other dds? Stealth specced mogami does the job better.

4) you want to 1v1? Benson can actually go toe-to-toe with Tashkents in a gunfight and do everything else the Tashkent does better (being only ~5 knts slower) 

 

about 4: Benson has faster rate of fire and will be close enough (detection range 6 km) to easily hit the Tash with every salvo, which makes up for the higher dmg of Tashkent shells.

Also a smart Benson will aim for the frontal turrets and make the Tashkent cry

 

What do you guys think?

[S4h3L]

RU dds are fine for Random battles, but imo not really competitive when it counts. - yep just fine, nothing more and only for randoms

 

Tashy is simply put just a bigger, slower Kiev with more HP to make up for being a bigger target. - they have same speed

Kiev was great and was able to dodge torps reasonably well. Tashkent is basicly a torpedo magnet even with Vigilance with that terrible rudder shift. - need to forsee from which dirrection torps will come

Although rumor has it Udaloi and Khaba have better guns than Tash/Kiev, I decided to leave my Tash in port awaiting RU dd buffs before I will grind onwards. - two times better turn speed and slithgly more AP dmg

 

So here's my problem with RU dds:

1) you want to cap? Go IJN or US dds

2) you want to smoke + shoot? US dds have better smoke and dodge sucker torps better with superior rudder shift (my most frequent cause of death in DDs are sucker torps across all nations)

    They can also take Demolitionist, giving them 8% fire chance/shell (something RU dds can't do due to needing AFT) and with experience, they can  hit BBs reliably from 10-11 km away. AP is a little meh though.

3) you want to support other dds? Stealth specced mogami does the job better.

4) you want to 1v1? Benson can actually go toe-to-toe with Tashkents in a gunfight and do everything else the Tashkent does better (being only ~5 knts slower) 

 

about 4: Benson has faster rate of fire and will be close enough (detection range 6 km) to easily hit the Tash with every salvo, which makes up for the higher dmg of Tashkent shells.

Also a smart Benson will aim for the frontal turrets and make the Tashkent cry

 

What do you guys think? 

I just had fight with my Udolai against enemy Kagero from 8 to 6km, bstrd destroyed one my turret and shot me down to 4k hp from 18,8k, I after 30 HE hits left him on 3k hp from 15k, we both disenganed but gunboat shuld kill torpedo boat like Kagero, but not in this game...

EDIT: ok my fail, HE are useless, from now I will shoot only AP

 

[GulvkluderGuld]

My bad when complaining about the speed of Tashy. I meant Rudder shift time there. I dodges like a brick compared to the Kiev. Needs stay about 2 km further from CAs.

 

As for torps, I mostly die to suckertorps while smoked up (even though moving back and forward)

 

S4h3L, on 28 March 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

I just had fight with my Udolai against enemy Kagero from 8 to 6km, bstrd destroyed one my turret and shot me down to 4k hp from 18,8k, I after 30 HE hits left him on 3k hp from 15k, we both disenganed but gunboat shuld kill torpedo boat like Kagero, but not in this game...

EDIT: ok my fail, HE are useless, from now I will shoot only AP

 

Sadface. Yes gunboats should, and in general i never had problems with IJN dds unless they have CA backup. 

 

My wake-up call was one of my first Benson games, where i met a Khabarovsk and we both took 4-5k hp off each other and smoked, then another 4-5k hp while disengaging.

Ranked games in my Tashy confirmed for me that Bensons trade damage evenly with RU dds (inside the Bensons ~6,5 km detection range).

 

AP on destroyers though. Sounds crazy, but if it works....

[EsaTuunanen]

As for torps, I mostly die to suckertorps while smoked up (even though moving back and forward)

Angle yourself to minimize size as target.

Besides being smaller target making most torps miss it allows easier dodging of some more torps.

[shamelesscreature]

EDIT: ok my fail, HE are useless, from now I will shoot only AP

 

AP is great against CAs and BBs showing broadside. Regarding DDs, it only works against Khabarovsk, Udaloi, Gearing and Fletcher though. Against all Japanese and Tier 8 or lower DDs, your HE will do more damage because AP usually overpenetrates.

[medi0815]

 

AP is great against CAs and BBs showing broadside. Regarding DDs, it only works against Khabarovsk, Udaloi, Gearing and Fletcher though. Against all Japanese and Tier 8 or lower DDs, your HE will do more damage because AP usually overpenetrates.

+ the chance to destroy modules and weapons of the target is much higher!

[WebSpawn]

Ognevoi is hell. I don't rightly know why I ever decided I wanted to tier everything. Nor how I will ever advance at a meaningful rate (with all those -500 xp games, my results are atrocious). At least with US DD's you can get some torpedo kills and you have more guns to play with.

 

[GulvkluderGuld]

Ognevoi is hell. I don't rightly know why I ever decided I wanted to tier everything. Nor how I will ever advance at a meaningful rate (with all those -500 xp games, my results are atrocious). At least with US DD's you can get some torpedo kills and you have more guns to play with.

 

I loved the Oggy and used it for S2 ranked with good results. It's a little weak on guns (and they break annoyingly often), but maneuverability and speed is excellent. The Oggy has the same turret as later RU dds, so get used to the wet toiletpaper dureability.

Go where you expect those IJN dds to be (or even US ones) and chase/kill them untill backup arrives. Oggy works for capping too, which later RU dds suck pertty hard at.

Avoid CAs like the plague and pepper BBs from close to max range with HE. 

The exception to this rule is Clevenlands, which can be sunk from max range while shooting themselves dry trying and failing to hit you. 

[WebSpawn]

 

I loved the Oggy and used it for S2 ranked with good results. It's a little weak on guns (and they break annoyingly often), but maneuverability and speed is excellent. The Oggy has the same turret as later RU dds, so get used to the wet toiletpaper dureability.

Go where you expect those IJN dds to be (or even US ones) and chase/kill them untill backup arrives. Oggy works for capping too, which later RU dds suck pertty hard at.

Avoid CAs like the plague and pepper BBs from close to max range with HE. 

The exception to this rule is Clevenlands, which can be sunk from max range while shooting themselves dry trying and failing to hit you. 

 

All you just said is completely opposite to what I experience. Ofcourse it's not hard to win against a IJN DD in a running gun battle, but you have to find them first. Smart ones don't stick around and launch waves of torpedoes at you. Any US DD just murders me on account of having better and more turrets.

 

As for Cruisers. I can't imagine me dodging gunfire from a Cleveland. In fact, no matter how I try Ca's always seem to be able to hit me. Including, but especially not limited to, the so called juicy target that is the Cleveland. I can't even get myself unspotted sometimes, and If I manage it I might as well have been dead already HP wise.

[medi0815]

I htink he is using the AFT Skill. Without this skill a RN DD has a problem. A Cleveland or Atlanta is deadly ... avoid them until they have just some HPs left and you can manage to kill them before they can shoot at you. Good target are the light cruiser (T4+T5 US, T5+T6 GER, RNs, and T5+T6 IJN CAs) but only when they firing at other ships. Best tactic: Go in range as close it is possible without being spotted and positioned at the cruiser broadside (a team member has to spot your prey or you will lose him). Then start the fog and fire AP shells at the citadell. He will change his cource -> at you: wait till he is close enough to launch your torpedos. -> away from you: load HE and burn him down.

Dont fire longer as 40s because when the fog disapears you have to be invisible again.

But most of the time you should hunt enemy DDs and try to hold distance to them.

[Trigger_Happy_Dad]

They are fast, have good guns and brutal close range torps...enjoy. ;)

 

[_Teob_]

*snip*

 

 

[WebSpawn]

Finally got the Kiev. Much better, spam all the HE!

 

[CLyDeThaMonKeY]

The russian DD line is definetly my favourite line! HE and shotguntorpedo all the things!

[EsaTuunanen]

The russian DD line is definetly my favourite line! HE and shotguntorpedo all the things!

You should spam AP against broadsides.

BBs with 25mm plating are proof against direct damage from HE up to 152mm and hitting superstructure of some New Mexico/Colorado is unreliable especially when AA guns in it eat half the hits.

So when seeing its broadside from range where you can easily lead reliably (instead of just hoping to hit ship) spam AP into upper decks.

 

Especially if BB thinks it good idea to sit stationary angled against your team's BBs feel free to encourage him to start moving...

25mm plating is thin enought that you can penetrate it even from clear angle from 10+km.

[CLyDeThaMonKeY]

YEah, nothing is like spamming crusiers with AP and get 10 cits in a row And a proper AP salvo into any superstructure gives me around 2k hp pr.salvo. Did the citadel mission with the Udaloi

 

[lankylad11_lankylad]

i hear concerning reports they are about to hammer the khabarovsk's range down to 11.2km JUST after i get the ship.  I get a Midway, so they then nerf it.  now this.  great can we have the 3 mil credit range mod back on khab then please?

[KaraMon]

Sell it, buy Udaloy , profit

 

[Basti542]

Still rumors :-)

[lankylad11_lankylad]

Sell it, buy Udaloy , profit

 

its not though, it would cost me an extra 8 MILLION credits to move down a tier and fully upgrade

[Panocek]

 

its not though, it would cost me an extra 8 MILLION credits to move down a tier and fully upgrade

 

That is why you don't sell ships you enjoyed.

[lankylad11_lankylad]

well I enjoy the Khaba more than I did the Udaloi.  I can take a RoF nerf and a slight range nerf but down to 11.2km from 13km seems a little harsh

[Spellfire40]

 

There is still a tier VI between Gnevny and Kiew though

 

​Ogni isnt Bad thogh since gunrotation gets a good burst. 

[komoo]

I am grinding the line just unlocked the kiev. Made a couple of matches and she's a beast even with captain in retraining and stock! Fantastic ship I hope to fully embrace her potential. I screwed only in one game and got rightfully deleted.
 

ALL RU DD line was a powerful experience for me. I got lot of fun in Gnevny (only after boosting turret traverse), then respecced captain for Ognevoi, and I had absolutely lots of good games and damage!