What are the f....... russiand DDs good for?

[SVAT]

 

XVM is dead, can't hide behind that anymore

 

 

Focussed on playing Gremmy, which is a RU DD. So his focus actually applies quite well ( though, Gnevny isn't the same ).

 

My should show you the statement was mostly a jest btw. But, I've had the pleasure of playing with him a couple of times and I will tell you that if he tells me that paying my Gremmy in his or that way is better than what I am proposing, I will just follow his lead. And I am not a bad Gremmy captain by comparison, I do quite ok in mine, but he is still clearly the better of us two.

 

Lots of debates would for me come down to 'who has the better stats', though not in all cases. But those cases where those numbers are indicative and relevant, not weighing them in a discussion sounds pretty weird to me. Stats are an indication of performance, performance in an indication of understanding game mechanics, why should one not use those? 

 

I've never heard a totally bs reasoning from a good player, I heard plenty from bad one's who don't understand the game. I hope you can see that?

 

 

See above. If you perform comparatively badly your opinion might be invalid. If others do better using the same tools/ships as you, you saying the tools are the cause of not being able to perform is not carrying as much weight as it would when your performance is indicative of the how other players are also performing using those same ships/tools.

 

That doesn't mean you can offer your opinion, it's actually very important that you do. But you should also show your statistics so that people can see how they would influence your observation regarding the game. WG needs feedback from ALL skill 'tiers', not just good and above. The good and above are not the mainstay of the players, and there are things like skill ceilings which are of influence in balancing. Therefore, again, feedback is more relevant when joined with knowing how those players perform. 

 

At the End the only thing that i was doing is Warning a Person who just started to play from having Frustration as this Line is indeed very specified and takes much skill  that was my impression.

But i see where this is leading to,  sorting people out and which opinion is worth more or less is leading to nowhere.

 

 

[mtm78]

 

At the End the only thing that i was doing is Warning a Person who just started to play from having Frustration as this Line is indeed very specified and takes much skill  that was my impression.

But i see where this is leading to,  sorting people out and which opinion is worth more or less is leading to nowhere.

 

 

 

You have one post on forum, did you just say you made a new account to make this post?

 

I am confused!

[Vulgarny]

 

I would not argue against him unless you have the stats to back it up  

 

I would argue with him because he plays only t5 vs mostly clueless people with one of most p2w ships in game.

[mtm78]

 

I would argue with him because he plays only t5 vs mostly clueless people with one of most p2w ships in game.

 

Which is why I would follow his advice on how to play mid tier RU DD's especially Gremlin, but yeah it doesn't  extent to Khabarovsk ( afaik.. haven't checked his profile in a long time except seeing him on the leaderboard on warships.today ).

[Vulgarny]

No.....his advice to mid tier russian DD is also invalid because he got only games in 1 ship. Grem that after nerf to whole line of RU DD is completely different beast. 8 km torps, ability to shoot stealth from 10,5 km and still use pre nerf HE rounds? Also he got 18 pkt captain.......how many middle tier RU DD players got 5th perk you think?

[mtm78]

No.....his advice to mid tier russian DD is also invalid because he got only games in 1 ship. Grem that after nerf to whole line of RU DD is completely different beast. 8 km torps, ability to shoot stealth from 10,5 km and still use pre nerf HE rounds? Also he got 18 pkt captain.......how many middle tier RU DD players got 5th perk you think?

 

Uhm, me Been using same captain up till last week for all my RU ships ( Gremmy, Imperator, Murmansk ) 

 

But I know, you're right, Gremlin is so much better than Gnevny for instance.

 

 

[medi0815]

Dont know the Grevni after the nerv, only T7+. Before the nerv it was a funny boot. Actually I play the Anshan - a very nice ship with 4 Turrets, which is a hugh advantage because of the lack durability. This turret durability is the reason why you have to stay as far as possible away from all enemies. Every hit or nearly hit has a high chance to kill one or two of your turrets - it is very frustrating. You will see what i mean when you own the Ognevoi. With no turrets you can only ram you enemies...

Kiew is little better because of 1 turret more to get destroyed ^^ (mostly the two front turrets are blown away)

The most important skill to get is AFT. Try to stay at max distance, the guns allow you certain hits. If you are < 10km you have two options: get distance between you and the enemies or use fog + AP and give them fire.

The Tashkent allows you to use your torps offensive. Sometimes very usefull but still the guns are you main weapon.

 

The russian DDs are no capper or spotter or game carrier. The realy like light cruisers. Protecting the BBs against DDs, spotting Torps, setting pinpricks and disturbing the enemies wherever they can.

 

I have fun with them but mainly because they are a challenge.

[EsaTuunanen]

I get often 250-500 damage salvos in Tashkent, while fubuki gets REGULARLY 2-2.5k ones in return.

That off the charts shell damage/module destruction power of higher tier IJN DD HE shells has been there at least from closed beta.

That might explain partially why high tiers are crawling with IJN DDs:

One salvo can nuke half of gunboats guns/modules so good player doesn't even have to be that afraid of supposed counter.

 

 

Dont know the Grevni after the nerv, only T7+. Before the nerv it was a funny boot. Actually I play the Anshan - a very nice ship with 4 Turrets, which is a hugh advantage because of the lack durability. This turret durability is the reason why you have to stay as far as possible away from all enemies.

Now why would change in shell damage value change strategy prioritities?

Without ability to do major harm to enemy's flank in few minutes (like Minekaze can do with torps) aim should be in hard/damage over time.

And that needs keeping guns functional and trying to avoid loosing hitpoints fast to be able to use them without sinking from first return fire hit.

 

So learning to keep distance and hit enemies from range allowed by trajctory is priority number one.

Shorter distance allows every ship to do more damage to you, besides making it harder to keep guns aimed at enemy.

IJN DDs might lack raw fire rate but that's no consolation if you loose half of front firepower to first incoming salvo.

And USN DDs have firerate to drown you into shells if you're easy target.

And boring in too aggressively into enemy flank to get possibly targeted by also heavier enemies is even faster way to become useless for the team.

(assuming being fast enough to turn away and pop smoke before sinking)

[IrrerMitPlan]

Thanks Wargaming for killing the Kiew. now it´s a useless ship. torps are useless and guns don´t make any damage. 7% chance of fire, pffff 180 hits = 1 fire. best nerf ever....

[medi0815]

Isn't soo bad ;)

 

 

[StringWitch]

Basically, the line ends at Izyaslav. Gnevny can 'invisi-gun' past 10.4km, by the way; the problem with taking this for granted is that an unspotted enemy DD may be spotting you.

[SplatterFest]

Don´t see so much russian DD´s in game, just lower tiers....  btw I tried, but.. I just can´t make it work.. and I love DD´s. But the torps range is just... no no...

 

 

 

[Bushpanther]

Not as many Russian DD's in the game as IJN and US ones, and the Ognevoy is a drag for sure. However the Kiev is still very much worth the grind. It's a gunboat, torps are not usefull at all and you gotta keep your distance to the Reds. However with a winrate of 56% on the EU server ( http://warships.today/vehicle/4180555216/eu/Kiev ) it's not a bad ship. It might not be as OP as it was pre-patch but it ain't a pushover. 

 

Than again, for most players the IJN DD-line is probably the easier one to manage.

[Ryuuteimaruu]

On the Kiev now and think it's rubbish.

[Wolfenbane]

Just got my crew skills to tier 4 on the Gnevny giving me a range of 14.3 Km with AFT,allowing me to spot but also play like a mini cruiser.Prior to this quite useless but i think i'll be keeping her now,quite fun with the range.Russian DDs are quite useless for torps but quite adequate gun boats.

[medi0815]

On the Kiev now and think it's rubbish.

 

???

Your statistic tells you have neither Kiev, nor Ognevoi nor Gnewni?!

[mtm78]

On the Kiev now and think it's rubbish.

 

 

Why are you lying?

[cherry2blost]

That off the charts shell damage/module destruction power of higher tier IJN DD HE shells has been there at least from closed beta.

That might explain partially why high tiers are crawling with IJN DDs:

One salvo can nuke half of gunboats guns/modules so good player doesn't even have to be that afraid of supposed counter.

 

 

Now why would change in shell damage value change strategy prioritities?

Without ability to do major harm to enemy's flank in few minutes (like Minekaze can do with torps) aim should be in hard/damage over time.

And that needs keeping guns functional and trying to avoid loosing hitpoints fast to be able to use them without sinking from first return fire hit.

 

So learning to keep distance and hit enemies from range allowed by trajctory is priority number one.

Shorter distance allows every ship to do more damage to you, besides making it harder to keep guns aimed at enemy.

IJN DDs might lack raw fire rate but that's no consolation if you loose half of front firepower to first incoming salvo.

And USN DDs have firerate to drown you into shells if you're easy target.

And boring in too aggressively into enemy flank to get possibly targeted by also heavier enemies is even faster way to become useless for the team.

(assuming being fast enough to turn away and pop smoke before sinking)

 

This ^^^ and This again ^^^

 

Russian DD are more about picking your timing than anything else, dunno I quite like them, yes Gremlin is something 'special' but Ogre is very nice, turret layout is a bit of a pain, Kiev is just sublime to play, finally get those decent torps... then we have Tashkent.... biggest problem Tashkent has is being out gunned by Hatuharas', which for a Gunboat is a bit ummm... meh... but once again, pick your target and opportunity and any RU DD will shine...

 

Have a fair few Gremlin Video's, and a few other RU DD ones, but this one has just become available ( 0.5.3.1) goes the full 20 mins unfortunately but you will get the general idea of Tashkent playstyle....  

 

[bobthebretonnian]

Try playing the tier 10 russian dd where one volley from a shimakaze you lose half your firepower straight away. Even with preventative maintenance u are lucky if u have 1 turret working by the end of the game. The Russian dd line is without a doubt the hardest of all lines.  Jap dd is spray and pray and easy mode DD.  Americans are next  decent torpedoes and guns that rape u with their rate of fire.  I have to admit playing kagero compared to karbo is easy until i get the noob shimakaze

[mtm78]

Try playing the tier 10 russian dd where one volley from a shimakaze you lose half your firepower straight away. Even with preventative maintenance u are lucky if u have 1 turret working by the end of the game. The Russian dd line is without a doubt the hardest of all lines.  Jap dd is spray and pray and easy mode DD.  Americans are next  decent torpedoes and guns that rape u with their rate of fire.  I have to admit playing kagero compared to karbo is easy until i get the noob shimakaze

 

And yet, you win more games with Karbo then Kageroo. But it is an upward trend compared with Fubuki. 

 

Overall, I would first try and look at yourself before pointing to the game, as your performance shows many opportunities for self improvement. 

[Ragoutrabbit]

Garbage every one of the including the Kiev.

[jonasnee]

so far i'm on the tier 5 (gnevny), lets be frank that ship is TERRIBLE but the future ships (esp. tier 7 and up) seem to become more interesting so that is why i am currently grinding it.

 

the guns are great, fast firing and can cause citadels to a flat surface of a cruiser (ok to be honest any DD can do that) and well they are lightning fast. they are fun to play but god the gnevny is just terrible.

[Ton0kki]

so far i'm on the tier 5 (gnevny), lets be frank that ship is TERRIBLE but the future ships (esp. tier 7 and up) seem to become more interesting so that is why i am currently grinding it.

 

the guns are great, fast firing and can cause citadels to a flat surface of a cruiser (ok to be honest any DD can do that) and well they are lightning fast. they are fun to play but god the gnevny is just terrible.

 

I don't think you are going to like them if you don't like Gnevny (I liked it and I think it's a good ship). At least Ognevoi and Kiev are quite similar to Gnevny when it comes to playstyle. 

[medi0815]

Yep, the Grevny is a good ship for the Tier (But the Anshan is better  ). The Ognevoi is worse. The Kiew after the nerf is still good but suffers below the turret losts as the Ognevoi does. For all russian DDs you need ASAP AFT.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

Yep, the Grevny is a good ship for the Tier (But the Anshan is better  ). The Ognevoi is worse. The Kiew after the nerf is still good but suffers below the turret losts as the Ognevoi does. For all russian DDs you need ASAP AFT.

 

The Anshan is a stronger ship in absolute terms, I agree, but I does face tougher matchmaking at tier 6, then Gnevny at tier 5, so it kind of balances IMHO.

 

Totally agree with the comments about Ognevoi (could not wait to sell it), Kiev, and the importance of AFT. All great points.

 

Turret traverse speed on Russian DDs is not the fastest either, so I found that Expert Marksman is a useful skill to have.