What are the f....... russiand DDs good for?

[barbaroja_Ar]

Been playing Gnevny (50% towards Ognevoi).

Still not found any reason to follow grinding it.

 

Captain Skills: BFT SA EM LS, and almost ready for the 3rd one

Upgrades: All

Equipment:MBM1, MBM2

 

Torps are a joke.

Guns traverse looks like IJN

Invissi gunning??? Impossible

Damage.... only received...

 

Play it like a CL they said,..... destroyed

CQ with any other DD... if its not already crippled, no good idea

Hit and run???? No way

 

So, do I just drop the line??

Is there anything fun in this line (except dying)???

 

Plase any hint???

 

Thinking on selling this POS and use the slot for anything else

 

 

 

 

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

- Range is your friend.

Keep your distance against cruisers and US DDs and use the excellent firing arc of your guns, while you dodge incoming shells.

- Close the distance when you encounter IJN DDs

You outgun them heavily, but don't underestimate the power of their guns. You have better RoF. Always be on the lookout for torpedoes.

- You can steath fire (invissi gunning as you call it) but you need the tier 4 skill "Advanced Firing Training".  (It is worth the grind, I assure you)

- Whenever the situation calls for it - use AP.  It might not be the first thing you think of in a DD (HE spam, right?), but the AP on Soviet 130mm guns hits hard. You will citadel a cruiser from under 10km when they unwisely show your side.

- Pretend that you don't even have torpedoes. Only remember them when you are in those rare situations when they suddenly become useful. They are defensive weapons.

- Gun Fire Control System 1 is better than MBM2 in my opinion, because the turret traverse speed isn't so much a problem at range and it is better to keep a high rate of fire to go with the increased accuracy.

 

just my 0.02c

[barbaroja_Ar]

Switched to AP and its another ship!!

Thanks

[mtm78]

barboraja_Ar go to youtube and search for Trigger_Happy_Dad Gremyashi games for tips.

 

I would recommend Esutuaanen but he doesn't do video content, he has quite a lot of replays I think on wowsreplays.com which you can play back in your client. 

 

I don't like Gnevny because I have the better version and it feels like a downgrade in to many ways, but it's certainly a very capable DD.

[MudMonkey]

Well, I have to say that at first I wasn't happy with the Gnevny. But because I am also playing the US DD line I realized pretty quickly the difference: Speed and Guns. Don't go into close combat. Just hold you distance a little bit. As soon as a CA is showing you its side its Citadel time. I usually don't finish a game with at least 5 Citadel hits.

 

Don't be afraid to fire your guns. Yes, you will probably draw fire. Just use your speed to run away and wait for your camo to kick in again. You might distract the enemy long enough to get your team an advantage that way. Keep being a pain in the a**. Try to go where the enemy DDs usualy go and reck 'em.

 

Can't wait for the Kiev.

[mtm78]

Well, I have to say that at first I wasn't happy with the Gnevny. But because I am also playing the US DD line I realized pretty quickly the difference: Speed and Guns. Don't go into close combat. Just hold you distance a little bit. As soon as a CA is showing you its side its Citadel time. I usually don't finish a game with at least 5 Citadel hits.

 

Don't be afraid to fire your guns. Yes, you will probably draw fire. Just use your speed to run away and wait for your camo to kick in again. You might distract the enemy long enough to get your team an advantage that way. Keep being a pain in the a**. Try to go where the enemy DDs usualy go and reck 'em.

 

Can't wait for the Kiev.

 

There is still a tier VI between Gnevny and Kiew though

[MudMonkey]

 

There is still a tier VI between Gnevny and Kiew though

 

I know. But the Kiev gives me motivation to hammer my way through it

[barbaroja_Ar]

Played AP, hide into smoke, fire without detection, citadel on a Cleve!!! Cant get better!!!

[EsaTuunanen]

- Close the distance when you encounter IJN DDs

You outgun them heavily, but don't underestimate the power of their guns. You have better RoF. Always be on the lookout for torpedoes.

 

- Whenever the situation calls for it - use AP.  It might not be the first thing you think of in a DD (HE spam, right?), but the AP on Soviet 130mm guns hits hard. You will citadel a cruiser from under 10km when they unwisely show your side.

Closing distance is exactly what increases danger of torps.

And distance allows throwing of their aim and being less inviting gun target with smaller turns, which are needed because of slow turning guns.

5 km should be considered as minimum distance to DD unless it's barely alive needing only salvo or two.

 

Whole strategy should be planned for always having guns on side of probable appearing direction of enemy DD and space to maneuver ship for aiming guns. (and keeping distance)

And never going into cramped place with unspotted DD in it.

If you have to maneuver to avoid torps even IJN DDs can give you heavy beating.

 

Proper planning and premium consumables also make Last Stand waste of points needed for more offense capabilities.

Though I guess with not so useful range torps Gnevny could use it as second round skill after AFT and Concealment.

 

 

Tenryo/Kuma in perfect angle takes citadel hits up to 10km.

Furutaka/Aoba 7-8km.

Phoenix/Omaha up to 9km.

Königsberg seems to be more precise on hitting point (that sloped second armor) but can be also citadelled up to similar range.

 

At shorter ranges penetration angle increases considerably, minimap shows angle of that target misprioritizing Omaha who run out of 18k hitpoints in ten seconds from first hit:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mopr30opd7mcp32/Omaha%20Citadelled.jpg?dl=0

 

Notice angle on this one. (next three citadel hit salvo killed it)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1parmmlfw53ql0k/Kuma%20Citadelled.jpg?dl=0

Two citadel hits below smokestacks usually disables Kuma's engine so you can use that to limit its maneuvering.

 

I think I've also citadelled angled Murmansk through bow and citadel's front bulkhead at similar range.

That would be something to test more in Training Room.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

Closing distance is exactly what increases danger of torps.

And distance allows throwing of their aim and being less inviting gun target with smaller turns, which are needed because of slow turning guns.

5 km should be considered as minimum distance to DD unless it's barely alive needing only salvo or two.

 

 

It's a dangerous game - so you have to go in harms way sometimes for the good of the team. If the enemy has IJN DDs then your #1 priority is to go and get them when you see them (within reason of course - not if they are protected by a whole fleet of cruisers!)

 

In my experience, IJN destroyers will know that they are out-gunned and try and escape. Your job in a Russian gunboat is to not let that happen. So when you see a Japanese DD in a CAP for instance, or coming out of smoke at 10 km head straight for them to keep them detected for as long as possible. If they fire torps you can comb them if you are facing them.

 

In the good old days (pre 0.5.3) you could take out their engine while chasing them. Now the blighters all have Last Stand! You can buy a brand new captain with 3 skill points for a few gold doubloons. That gives you Situational Awareness and Last Stand immediately.

 

 

 

[mtm78]

 

It's a dangerous game - so you have to go in harms way sometimes for the good of the team. If the enemy has IJN DDs then your #1 priority is to go and get them when you see them (within reason of course - not if they are protected by a whole fleet of cruisers!)

 

In my experience, IJN destroyers will know that they are out-gunned and try and escape. Your job in a Russian gunboat is to not let that happen. So when you see a Japanese DD in a CAP for instance, or coming out of smoke at 10 km head straight for them to keep them detected for as long as possible. If they fire torps you can comb them if you are facing them.

 

In the good old days (pre 0.5.3) you could take out their engine while chasing them. Now the blighters all have Last Stand! You can buy a brand new captain with 3 skill points for a few gold doubloons. That gives you Situational Awareness and Last Stand immediately.

 

 

 

 

I would not argue against him unless you have the stats to back it up  

[EsaTuunanen]

In my experience, IJN destroyers will know that they are out-gunned and try and escape. Your job in a Russian gunboat is to not let that happen. So when you see a Japanese DD in a CAP for instance, or coming out of smoke at 10 km head straight for them to keep them detected for as long as possible. If they fire torps you can comb them if you are facing them.

 

In the good old days (pre 0.5.3) you could take out their engine while chasing them. Now the blighters all have Last Stand!

Three dual launchers makes for some very hard and tight squeezes if interleaved.

Especially if insisting getting to close range.

As most of the time you're in roughly opposing courses with enemy DD when screening own "heavies".

 

And once inside spotting range it's better to get also at least one rear gun available, because just two guns shooting isn't that great.

Further if you close range becoming easier to hit target with every salvo IJN DD HEs can fast wreck guns/modules.

So with enemy DD well in sight I prefer maximising own firepower for giving target least time to fight back.

 

Last Stand won't help in running out of detectability.

Smoke is lot more annoying because you might run to middle of two DDs if enemy has more than one DD. (always plan ahead)

 

 

[Ragoutrabbit]

What are RU DD good at=absolutely nothing.

[mirage77]

What are RU DD good at=absolutely nothing.

 

Not all, some are very good gunboats. But the Gnevny you are right , useless .

Almost afraid of teling the true in the midlle of so many Gnevny fans.

[Tanker150000]

Dont Play them the Line is Dead since the Major Russian Nerf in 5.2

I unlocked the Khabarovsk and the Udaloy of which the Udaloy is the Better one but they arent enjoyable American DDs and Japanese have much more Advantages and are much more effective in their role as DDs

The Only special thing about them is that their AP shells are doing some Damage to the enemy if he shows his Broadside at the end the Painful grind through the Trashkent isnt worth it.

You have Worst Alpha Damage out of all DDs 1600 HE Damage  (and you never deal 1600 per shot thats a fact mostly 528 per shot against DDs sometimes 1000 but never 1600) Worst Turn rate of the Turrets 10.8 seconds at Tier 9 (without the skill that increase the turning rate) and 10 even worse at Tier 8 and so on,Bad Concealment,You have a horrible Rudder shift time of more than 4 seconds depending on the Tier your Turning Circle will vary up to 700 meters which is comparable to the Japanese 40 thousand ton Battleships Kongo and Fuso and which will result in you catching even more often Torpedos whilst trying to Hunt down Destroyers...and yeah you cant get to close to Destroyers cause this will result in you loosing all of your Turrets (The Turrets arent made of Glass as the other guys said in previous posts But of Paper) Your Healthpool isnt much of an Advantage over the Enemies that you will encounter cause they will perish as fast as your Turrets.. and so on  the Line is only for People who like passive and useless shooting from Max Distance  no Stealth Torping no DD Dogfights nothing just stay as far away from the enemy and spam your shells no fun no strategy just plain Gun spamming from long distances which is Boring but the only way to play the Russians effectively otherwise the Line is Dead as i said before dont try it if you were planning on to fight off DDs and Stealth torp your enemys thats what Americans can do better and more effective Russians rely totally on your Team and have to use Smoke screens in order to do anything otherwise they get focused and killed easily as they are big targets

[mtm78]

Dont Play them the Line is Dead since the Major Russian Nerf in 5.2

I unlocked the Khabarovsk and the Udaloy of which the Udaloy is the Better one but they arent enjoyable American DDs and Japanese have much more Advantages and are much more effective in their role as DDs

The Only special thing about them is that their AP shells are doing some Damage to the enemy if he shows his Broadside at the end the Painful grind through the Trashkent isnt worth it.

You have Worst Alpha Damage out of all DDs 1600 (you never deal 1600 per shot thats a fact) Worst Turn rate of the Turrets about 10 seconds at Tier 9 and 10 even worse at Tier 8 and so on,Bad Concealment,You have a horrible Rudder shift time of more than 4 seconds depending on the Tier your Turning Circle will vary up to 700 meters which is comparable to the Japanese 40 thousand ton Battleships Kongo and Fuso and which will result in you catching even more often Torpedos whilst trying to Hunt down Destroyers...and yeah you cant get to close to Destroyers cause this will result in you loosing all of your Turrets (The Turrets arent made of Glass as the other guys said in previous posts But of Paper) Your Healthpool isnt much of an Advantage over the Enemies that you will encounter cause they will perish as fast as your Turrets.. and so on  the Line is only for People who like passive and useless shooting from Max Distance  no Stealth Torping no DD Dogfights nothing just stay as far away from the enemy and spam your shells no fun no strategy just plain Gun spamming from long distances which is Boring but the only way to play the Russians effectively otherwise the Line is Dead as i said before dont try it if you were planning on to fight off DDs and Stealth torp your enemys thats what Americans can do better and more effective Russians rely totally on your Team and have to use Smoke screens in order to do anything otherwise they get focused and killed easily as they are big targets

 

You have a hidden profile, and not even a last snapshot available. Did you grind them all after you hid your stats? Impressive!

[Tanker150000]

 

You have a hidden profile, and not even a last snapshot available. Did you grind them all after you hid your stats? Impressive!

 

The Line wrecked my Stats so Badly that i was ashamed of what happen to my Winrate and i had to hide my stats in order not to get laughed by other Players,

PS:However i still have enough courage to tell people what happen to me when i grinded through it

[mtm78]

 

The Line wrecked my Stats so Badly that i was ashamed of what happen to my Winrate and i had to hide my stats in order not to get laughed by other Players,

PS:However i still have enough courage to tell people what happen to me when i grinded through it

 

So, let us see those bad stats, we won't laugh but we would like to see where you base your statements on ( don't need to make them public, just only visible by link and post the link here ;) ). 

[Tanker150000]

 

So, let us see those bad stats, we won't laugh but we would like to see where you base your statements on ( don't need to make them public, just only visible by link and post the link here ;) ). 

 

My Base statements are that Russian DDs require so much skill that not every person would enjoy that gameplay so i was initally warning the guy who started the post that this line has many Downgrades that require a skilled player to compensate so that not every person is fitting this line especially people who just began to play and i was one of those people who initially started with the Russian Line and pre 5.2 i really liked the line until that nerf which "Balanced" this line so "well" that i for my part cant enjoy playing this Line (the way how you play the Russian DDs changed from Aggressive to "Passive only")  and i think its enough if i say that my Winrate is only 50% and that is why i am hiding my Stats in order not to get called noob all the time by those players who use xvm)

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

 

I would not argue against him unless you have the stats to back it up  

 

By that logic mtm, every debate would come down to "who has the better stats"

Esa has brilliant stats, but is (I would respectfully suggest) rather "focussed".

[Tanker150000]

Ah okay thats why mtm78 wanted to see my Stats cause the stats is what its all about ...

That would mean that only the Best and Most skilled players are allowed to enter and to share their impressions about a Line ....

Everybody else would be just "beginners" who dont understand how to play....

[mtm78]

 

My Base statements are that Russian DDs require so much skill that not every person would enjoy that gameplay so i was initally warning the guy who started the post that this line has many Downgrades that require a skilled player to compensate so that not every person is fitting this line especially people who just began to play and i was one of those people who initially started with the Russian Line and pre 5.2 i really liked the line until that nerf which "Balanced" this line so "well" that i for my part cant enjoy playing this Line (the way how you play the Russian DDs changed from Aggressive to "Passive only")  and i think its enough if i say that my Winrate is only 50% and that is why i am hiding my Stats in order not to get called noob all the time by those players who use xvm)

 

XVM is dead, can't hide behind that anymore

 

 

By that logic mtm, every debate would come down to "who has the better stats"

Esa has brilliant stats, but is (I would respectfully suggest) rather "focussed".

 

Focussed on playing Gremmy, which is a RU DD. So his focus actually applies quite well ( though, Gnevny isn't the same ).

 

My should show you the statement was mostly a jest btw. But, I've had the pleasure of playing with him a couple of times and I will tell you that if he tells me that paying my Gremmy in his or that way is better than what I am proposing, I will just follow his lead. And I am not a bad Gremmy captain by comparison, I do quite ok in mine, but he is still clearly the better of us two.

 

Lots of debates would for me come down to 'who has the better stats', though not in all cases. But those cases where those numbers are indicative and relevant, not weighing them in a discussion sounds pretty weird to me. Stats are an indication of performance, performance in an indication of understanding game mechanics, why should one not use those? 

 

I've never heard a totally bs reasoning from a good player, I heard plenty from bad one's who don't understand the game. I hope you can see that?

 

Ah okay thats why mtm78 wanted to see my Stats cause the stats is what its all about ...

That would mean that only the Best and Most skilled players are allowed to enter and to share their impressions about a Line ....

Everybody else would be just "beginners" who dont understand how to play....

 

See above. If you perform comparatively badly your opinion might be invalid. If others do better using the same tools/ships as you, you saying the tools are the cause of not being able to perform is not carrying as much weight as it would when your performance is indicative of the how other players are also performing using those same ships/tools.

 

That doesn't mean you can't offer your opinion, it's actually very important that you do. But you should also show your statistics so that people can see how they would influence your observation regarding the game. WG needs feedback from ALL skill 'tiers', not just good and above. The good and above are not the mainstay of the players, and there are things like skill ceilings which are of influence in balancing. Therefore, again, feedback is more relevant when joined with knowing how those players perform. 

 

edit: missed a  't

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

 

This reply should be read as if we were both down the pub and talking informally with smiles on our faces. 

Focussed on playing Gremmy, which is a RU DD. So his focus actually applies quite well ( though, Gnevny isn't the same ).

- Indeed - the Gremy has some significant advantages over Gnevny, not least a lower detection whilst firing (2 km less), and more useable torps.

 

My should show you the statement was mostly a jest btw. But, I've had the pleasure of playing with him a couple of times and I will tell you that if he tells me that paying my Gremmy in his or that way is better than what I am proposing, I will just follow his lead. And I am not a bad Gremmy captain by comparison, I do quite ok in mine, but he is still clearly the better of us two.

- I only had the pleasure of playing with Esa once, and I yield to nobody in my admiration for his skills.

 

Lots of debates would for me come down to 'who has the better stats', though not in all cases. But those cases where those numbers are indicative and relevant, not weighing them in a discussion sounds pretty weird to me. Stats are an indication of performance, performance in an indication of understanding game mechanics, why should one not use those? 

- Use them certainly, but always with caution.  For example the stats would indicate that ARP Kongo was better than Kongo, unless you dig deeper. The player base of an identical ship is better and THAT is why the ARP Kongo performs better. Without knowing that you would think it was down to the ship being somehow better.

- ON TOPIC... why I disagree with this one particular piece of advice from Esa on closing the range to IJN cruisers has some personal statistical backing.  AND NOTICE I'VE NOT DISAGREED WITH ANYTHING ELSE HE SAID.

Esa is an excellent shot. He knows the Gremy's guns inside and out. He's like the gunslinger who can shoot from the hip and hit the target. His main battery hit rate in Gremy is 44%.   Serious respect for that!

Therefore Esa sees an IJN DD at, say, 9km and instantly reacts and uses his excellent gunnery to sink the blighter in no time at all.

Here's the rub. My main battery hit rate in Gnevny is only 26%. Don't forget that the further away from the target I am the lower the rate. 26% is only an average. I am no gunslinger.

I'd love to be able to follow Esa's advice but I would never land enough hits. I've tried keeping my distance in these sorts of situations and my gunnery isn't good enough. In practice I just HAVE to get closer, and I think that most of us average players have to do the same.

 

Ultimately, I feel that I have a job to do to help my team, and if that means taking calculated risks that I would not have to take in an ideal world,  then so be it.

 

(BTW Esa, if you are reading this, I hope that you don't mind me talking about you in the third person, especially as the commentary is all about your high level of skill and how it helps to get the most out of the ship)

 

 

I've never heard a totally bs reasoning from a good player, I heard plenty from bad one's who don't understand the game. I hope you can see that?

- absolutely

 

 

[mtm78]

(beer)

 

Oops, wrong chat client

[Poster_2015]

 

I know. But the Kiev gives me motivation to hammer my way through it

 

Unfortunately after the last nerfs to HE shells and hp, Kiev might arguably be worse then Ognevoi now (God, i never thought id say that). Russian destroyers (apart from gremy which escaped the nerf), right now lose to any other destroyers at tier 7+. Yes even in japanese ones, I feel rather confident about killing equal tiered russian DD. They have to come close enough to see you that their range/shell arc doesnt matter much, and after the nerf HE shells are so ridiculously weak... I get often 250-500 damage salvos in Tashkent, while fubuki gets REGULARLY 2-2.5k ones in return. Even the RoF doesnt help. When you see someone losing to japanese DDs in gunboat duel (oh did i mention the turret losses on russian DDs), there is a problem.

 

But what they are good at? Actually using AP shells vs cruisers till tier 8, then AP shells vs everything at tier 9-10. Shoot AP, if you are far you have good trajectory and make yourself a hard target, if you are close you really can go to town with citadels vs cruisers.  At tier 9-10 they are decent at demolishing BB superstructure with AP shells (obviously you cant do crapvs BB armored belt, but 3-4k AP salvos are good enough given the ROF).