Are Jap CV's OP?

[DragonheartX1]

I want to hear other peoples oppion on this topic, because for me, (Only have teir 6 american cv) jap CV's seem OP. It is not because of thenumbber of planes in their squad, but rather the numbber of their squards themself. I have so often seen Jap Cv's just suacide their fighters binding the american CV while 2 dive bombers and 2 torp planes reck either an ally or your CV. Also as I sail a stok Teir 6 american CV most jap cv will have 2 fighter squards, also a stok which means they will dominate me, and I will get nothing done. 

ps. I also want to hear your opinions on, if fighter kills are worth anything. as an american CV captain I fell like i get nothing for doing my job (Killing other planes).  

[ShockPirat]

IJN CVs aren't op. USN CVs are underpowered. Mostly because of their incredibly bad plane loadouts. Before 5.3 you had Essex and Midway to look forward too, now their loadouts too were made bad and they face the same problem as mid tier USN CVs (when you think about it, it is pretty sad that 2 torpedo squads were the only thing that made Essex and Midway worth playing).

If you want to play carriers, switch to Japanese. USN are for masochists only.

[Gunship14]

Goodness gracious can we stop this already?

[Egoleter]

As IJN CV player (though only tier 5 yet) I can tell you that I hate the american six plane fighter squads. If they are used in an efficient way they are blocking me completly. As a IJN you always have to be on high alert and try to avoid those like the devil himself.

 

If I get the chance to bind those fighter squads, even at the cost of sacrificing some of my very few fighters, my bombers will reign free. But only for a very short time as my fighters will die quickly. If the amercian CV player is halfway decent, I'll lose a lot of my planes in a very short time. With his fighters he will cover the approach vector of my bombers and try to avoid my fighters. If he can't avoid my fighters, he will kill my bombers on their way back.

 

Now, from what I heard and have seen in the few battles where I had the pleasure of fighting alongside bigger carriers, tier 6 is a whole different beast. The loadout of the IJN carriers certainly gets better and seems to have an advatage over the american counterpart.

[ShockPirat]

Goodness gracious can we stop this already?

 

NO!

[viceadmiral123]

This topic didn't take long to pop up after an update.

[Flukeyluke]

carriers wont be balanced till we have 3+ tech trees so we can have a wider view off the situation. at the moment with only 2 tech trees its hard to balance without makeing them mirrors off each other

[Myrmix]

IJN fighters have no chance against USN, but more bombers.

In my opinion, with equal skill, USN can completely shut down a IJN CV (loadout doesn't matter), with only 2 fighter squads.

[DJ_Die]

IJN fighters have no chance against USN, but more bombers.

In my opinion, with equal skill, USN can completely shut down a IJN CV (loadout doesn't matter), with only 2 fighter squads.

How come they dont? as it is now its usually 8 IJN fighters vs 6 USN ones and they all have comparable stats...

As it stands now Lexington has no decent setup because  not matter whichever you choose means you gimp yourself in some way...

You either get no XP and still wont stop a half decent shokaku from dealing damage or you have no way of shooting down enemy planes.....

Not mentioning the stock loadout which was the best thing you had but after the nerf you have the same loadout as a damned T4!!! LANGLEY!!! 

so yeah....

[PixelMK]

IJN CVs aren't op. USN CVs are underpowered. Mostly because of their incredibly bad plane loadouts. Before 5.3 you had Essex and Midway to look forward too, now their loadouts too were made bad and they face the same problem as mid tier USN CVs (when you think about it, it is pretty sad that 2 torpedo squads were the only thing that made Essex and Midway worth playing).

If you want to play carriers, switch to Japanese. USN are for masochists only.

Its too late to go back. I have no choice. I will die with my Bogue bomber-only loadout.

[ShockPirat]

IJN fighters have no chance against USN, but more bombers.

In my opinion, with equal skill, USN can completely shut down a IJN CV (loadout doesn't matter), with only 2 fighter squads.

 

Absolutely not. With equal skill, strike loadout is ALWAYS better than air superiority loadout.

 

First of all, the "value" of air superiority drops every tier. Plane reserves get much higher and plane hp gets much higher compared to fighter dps. Accomplishing real air superiority (= no enemy planes in the air) becomes much harder the higher tier you are. And air superiority is half useless if you don't have attack planes to attack unhindered.

 

At what tier can USN choose 2 fighter groups without gimping itself too much (= not losing torpedo squad)? Now, only tier 9 and 10 by choosing stock loadout (Essex 2/1/1 and Midway 2/1/2. RIP Lexi). At that tiers, IJN carriers have 2 fighter groups in their STRIKE loadouts (Taiho 2/3/2 and Haku 2/3/3, and Shokaku also had them as 2/2/2. Tier 8 was the best balanced CV tier and WG just had to destroy it...).

If you choose air superiority as USN at any tier, you've lost already. Why? Because you have direct counterpart in enemy team (that being the enemy CV) and to be more successful than him you HAVE to deal more damage than him. If you let just one his strike go through (and it is nearly impossible to catch all the planes even against mediocre players), you will never catch up to damage difference with only dive bombers USN air superiority loadouts get. You have failed your team. As USN air superiority you can't really "win", you can just "not lose". Even if you fully shut down enemy carrier you won't be able to do much vs surface ships, it will almost be as if the fight started 11 vs 11.

There's also some value in spotting enemy destroyers, but at low tiers where real air superiority is possible they tend to die very quickly (so when enemy planes are dead you can't do anything anymore) and at high tiers you will barely be able to spare a squad to spot them if playing vs good enemy CV captain.

 

 

Vs 2 USN fighter groups, all IJN have to do is try to tie up your USN fighters. 2 fighter squads vs 2 fighter squads, tied up. IJN bombers fly past, do their thing, IJN fighters die, and even if IJN bombers die then, the damage has been done. Better luck trying to stop next wave.

Now, there's also barrage ability. You can use it to kill enemy fighters right away. And they can use it to to shoot down one or two of your fighters right away. But if you do use it, you've just used up half of your ammo. Then IJN just has to split up his bombers, you can set your fighters on a single squad to disrupt and maybe kill it or try to barrage that single squad (since they are split up) to kill him fast or not kill him at all, and then your fighters have to return to the ship. And again, you can't stop the strike.

 

2 USN fighters fail simply because they get tied up by 2 IJN fighters and can't do actual useful job (killing bombers). BUT if IJN decides to go air superiority, he will have 3 (at tier 9) or 4 (at tier 10) fighter groups available. He can use 2 of those to tie up YOUR fighters (which then become useless) and can use the remaining fighters to chase down and kill your bombers. And just for a bonus, IJN also gets torpedo squads in his air superiority loadout so he CAN do some actual damage.

[Takeda92]

I played Hosho and Zuiho and I don't feel OP at all. In fact, I have worst stats in them that all of my battleships, cruisers and destroyers.

[DJ_Die]

I played Hosho and Zuiho and I don't feel OP at all. In fact, I have worst stats in them that all of my battleships, cruisers and destroyers.

 

No offence but that has nothing to do with carriers themselves but with your lack of experience with them....besides tier 4 is kinda balanced because Langley has somewhat better chance of using its fighters to full effect while Hosho is a better strike CV....

I have almost the same average damage in my post-nerf Zuiho as in my pre-nerf Independence which is one of the stronger US CVs until Essex...

[Trigger_Happy_Dad]

Thx to the new torpedo acceleration skill + faster planes the Hosho just WRECKS the enemy fleet now.

I played the Hosho 8x in 0.5.3 so far : 75 - 163k damage PER GAME with a TIER IV SHIP!!!

Last game: 26 torpedo hits, Kraken, 163k damage....

http://wowreplays.com/Home/Replay/1138

Why should I play Kuma / Phoenix / ... without the benefit of BFT / EM / AFT now when I can just WRECK them all with my Hosho?

lol @ WG's "balance department"

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Spithas]

Low tier CVs are going to be horribly OP.

 

In higher tiers at least ships can spec for the new improved AA if they have problems with CVs.

[EsaTuunanen]

Thx to the new torpedo acceleration skill + faster planes the Hosho just WRECKS the enemy fleet now.

I played the Hosho 8x in 0.5.3 so far : 75 - 163k damage PER GAME with a TIER IV SHIP!!!

 

lol @ WG's "balance department"

Helped by major nerf of other than long range/high caliber AA.

Both by change of DPS values and ineffectiveness of "focusing" secondaries.

 

What balancing?

Isn't it more like inbalancing department with most of the time something either nerfed down to ground or buffed off the charts?

[Gerudan]

Just try T7 or 8 and report back at how OP CVs are.

[Ubertron_X]

Ah, the old CV's need to do damage to win argument...

 

How about you keep your teammates from harm so they make the missing damage instead of you because they are still alive and not sunk by the enemy CV?

 

Or scouting all those pesky DDs once you have air superiority so your team won't fall for them but can kill them at will?

 

Does not give XP? Blame WG for that.

[DJ_Die]

Ah, the old CV's need to do damage to win argument...

 

How about you keep your teammates from harm so they make the missing damage instead of you because they are still alive and not sunk by the enemy CV?

 

Or scouting all those pesky DDs once you have air superiority so your team won't fall for them but can kill them at will?

 

Does not give XP? Blame WG for that.

 

And i bet you got your win rate by relying on your average random player to do damage huh?

[ilhilh]

I want to hear other peoples oppion on this topic, because for me, (Only have teir 6 american cv) jap CV's seem OP. It is not because of thenumbber of planes in their squad, but rather the numbber of their squards themself. I have so often seen Jap Cv's just suacide their fighters binding the american CV while 2 dive bombers and 2 torp planes reck either an ally or your CV. Also as I sail a stok Teir 6 american CV most jap cv will have 2 fighter squards, also a stok which means they will dominate me, and I will get nothing done. 

ps. I also want to hear your opinions on, if fighter kills are worth anything. as an american CV captain I fell like i get nothing for doing my job (Killing other planes).  

 

I am currently playing the Independence quite successfully.  And I run the stock loadout too because 1/1/1 is the best loadout.  The other 2 are a waste of time. Tips:

• Don't let him pin your fighters down unless you are engaging both (or all 3) of his.  Try bait them after you and barrage them to get the numbers down.  Plenty of people fall for this and if you take 2 planes off each squad then suddenly things look better for you.
• Don't worry about what his strike planes are doing unless you are sure that his fighters are not going to kill your strike force or get at your fighters.  Only if you have a free run at his strike load do you bother going for them.
• Couple those together and focus on your damage - your fighters are there to mainly protect your strike force.  Everything else is secondary.

 

Ah, the old CV's need to do damage to win argument...

 

How about you keep your teammates from harm so they make the missing damage instead of you because they are still alive and not sunk by the enemy CV?

 

Or scouting all those pesky DDs once you have air superiority so your team won't fall for them but can kill them at will?

 

Does not give XP? Blame WG for that.

 

It isn't about getting XP for scouting and protecting your team mates.  It is about improving your chances of winning.  And if you want to improve your chances of winning you go for a loadout that has TBs and you make it happen.  In this case the 1/1/1 is the best option as pure strike loadouts are too vulnerable and as soon as your opponent realises it they will camp your CV.  AS loadouts cannot be certain of stopping damage to their team and at the same time they cannot do enough damage to tip the scales for their team.  I've gone up against plenty of AS loadout CVs and you have to be more cautious to get through to the enemy but maps are big enough and it is entirely possible to get past them and damage the enemy.

[Ubertron_X]

 

It isn't about getting XP for scouting and protecting your team mates.  It is about improving your chances of winning.  And if you want to improve your chances of winning you go for a loadout that has TBs and you make it happen.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am with you as the current meta supports this 100%. If you want something done, do it yourself. The problem that I do have is that an AS setup should be a viable way to improve your chances for victory but it just isn't.

[Firefly2021]

In my opinion, see this makes it ok because it's my own opinion and it's no one else's, yes, yes they are.

[TakeMeRiver]

I'm currently playing the Midway and I feel the Hakuryu bomber setup is superior in every way. It has 2 fighters that can block or kill my 1 or 2 fighters and if my fighters win they are to badly damaged or don't have enough ammo to harm his other planes. Its also has 3 TBS squads a total of 12 double mine, which means it can perform more complicated drops and reliably do more damage while not having to worry about them being focused or shoot down compared to mine 1 TB. It also has 3 DB squads meaning it can also use flooding and fire combo reliably as well. There are no disadvantages to this setup. 

[gr0pah]

 Its also has 3 TBS squads a total of 12 double mine, which means it can perform more complicated drops and reliably do more damage while not having to worry about them being focused or shoot down compared to mine 1 TB. 

And as more than one person has said; if we assume you will lose 2 TB before drop you will launch 4 and hit 3. Haku will launch 10 and hit 7-8. So it's more than double the power. And then come the DBs...

[TakeMeRiver]

And as more than one person has said; if we assume you will lose 2 TB before drop you will launch 4 and hit 3. Haku will launch 10 and hit 7-8. So it's more than double the power. And then come the DBs...

So your agreeing with me?

 

I feel the main way to make the US higher tiers good but not OP is to rebalance the fighters. In mid tiers US can pick fighters which have a clear advantage over IJN. Except the higher the tier the more useless fighters get in being able to kill bombers and IJN fighters get better (someone already mention this) but WG still consider that the US fighters can clear out the entire IJN deck, punishing you for trying to use your medicore fighters by giving you medicore damage abilities.

Reblance the fighters so dog fights don't tie your planes up for 5 minutes and take up most of your ammo and make it so US fighters can actual punish IJN bombers if they are caught off guard, then US cv's will have a purpose instead of just being a worse version of the IJN line