Sims needs a buff - a big one

[Anymn]

 

It has been a few months ago when the Sims destroyer received a new torpedo choice. However, it still really not shines in anything and lays far behind in the competition. The torps are meh (either no range or no speed/damage). The guns have a low fire chance and the shell arc is a "rainbow". All in all, it really felt much much worse than it was in CBT, and really suffers from the higher shell ark of USA destroyers.

 

According to wows-numbers the sims has an average win-rate of 45.38%. This can't be blaimed on it being a premium ship, as the Anshan, Błyskawica, Lo Yang and Gnevy have a 54.4%, 51.2%, 48.7 and 52.1% win-rate respectively.

 

I think it's needed for WG to increase the shell velocity/give it another huge buff and apologize for false advertisement. Probably it even has to move to tier 6 to remains competitive. =(

 

[blaster1112]

Though I admit the Sims is a below average performer I can do decently well in it. It's major flaw being the fact it gets spotted much earlier as IJN DDs and not having the guns to deal with RU DDs.

The way to fix it I feel would be to give it access to concealment modification 1, reducing the range at which it is spotted by 10%. This makes its spotting range 6.6 km (around that of IJN DDs) and while it's guns have a high arc they can fire far. (14.8+ km with AFT). Meaning an 11.3 km range at which you are spotted without concealment modification 1.

It's torps are fine, not strong but decent.
If you can ambush. (Long range ones are terrible).

The guns:
+high range
+high RoF

+ very fast turning
+- High arc
-low velocity
-low damage and fire chance.

To make it a more viable DD I find that extra stealth would be good. It would allow for longer stealth firing and getting in closer for torps undetected (though not stealth torping).

 

[Anymn]

Though I admit the Sims is a below average performer I can do decently well in it. It's major flaw being the fact it gets spotted much earlier as IJN DDs and not having the guns to deal with RU DDs.

 

The way to fix it I feel would be to give it access to concealment modification 1, reducing the range at which it is spotted by 10%. This makes its spotting range 6.6 km (around that of IJN DDs) and while it's guns have a high arc they can fire far. (14.8+ km with AFT). Meaning an 11.3 km range at which you are spotted without concealment modification 1.

 

It's torps are fine, not strong but decent.

If you can ambush. (Long range ones are terrible).

 

The guns:

+high range

+high RoF

+ very fast turning

+- High arc

-low velocity

-low damage and fire chance.

 

To make it a more viable DD I find that extra stealth would be good. It would allow for longer stealth firing and getting in closer for torps undetected (though not stealth torping).

 

 

 

I think a better stealth rating would help yes. Being able to atleast spot a IJN DD before it spots you, gives it some uniqueness/meaningfull role to fulfill on the battlefield. It was advertised as a "killer of destroyers". However I still think a shell velocity buff should be made. More often that not, it find itself easily outplayed by other destroyers. You have to give way too much lead in even a 5km fight.

[Nechrom]

It's the 3rd topic in the Destroyer sub-forum. Please use the search function.

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/38619-sims-needs-buffing-warshipstatsshipanalytics-proves-it/

[MetropolitaN]

I can agree with blaster1112, a little increase in the stealth rating would do good. Choices for torps are fine, because most ppl who play US DDs now that you have to get at close range in order to sink anything with torps.

Guns itself are fine too, but a bit more damage would do good in order to compete with the russian DDs or to make it worth starting a gun fight on long range with BBs

[Anymn]

It's the 3rd topic in the Destroyer sub-forum. Please use the search function.

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/38619-sims-needs-buffing-warshipstatsshipanalytics-proves-it/

 

I know. But I think its urgent enough to keep it hot, and necroing posts is just not my thing.

[aboch]

Sims is ok like it is, no doubt a ship can always be better to be OP, bu come on and honestly, it is a very good ship as it is right now.

[Anymn]

Sims is ok like it is, no doubt a ship can always be better to be OP, bu come on and honestly, it is a very good ship as it is right now.

 

You are kidding. The Sims has the lowest average damage per game of all ships in the game, starting up from tier IV. That's not a definition of an OK ship. Compared to ships in her tier, she deals ~5k damage on average less... that's not a good ship.

[SohrAb1369]

you guys should believe that any nations or ship must have a weak points , ijn ones have good spot range and torps , usa ones are medicore , rus ones have good fire power and armor (but i think they are abit weak ) . i think sims is ok as it is .

[Aldramelech]

never play mine, my least favorite ship

[blaster1112]

Sims is ok like it is, no doubt a ship can always be better to be OP, bu come on and honestly, it is a very good ship as it is right now.

 

It isn't completely useless but it isn't good.

The velocity is so low that with AFT and the 15km range that gets you you can have 20s travel time. That means 6 salvos can be in the air at the same time, even battleships can easily evade shots because of this. (And even if you hit it does terrible damage against them). Same goes for cruisers, they are hard to hit and the damage is laughable (especially in a T9 game....).  Stealth firing is pretty bad this way.

 

The torps are either short range or pretty bad longer range (under 12k damage for both, long range (9.2km) do a whopping 8200ish damage..... which is bad as well as low velocity.

 

The guns are nothing like they were in CBT due to the HE damage nerfs and most importantly the velocity nerf.

 

Atm the Sims:

-Does get spotter way earlier ad IJN DDs. And has far worse torps as them. (Which is acceptable).

-Had worse torps and 1 less gun as the Mahan, this hampers is significantly.

-Has a far lower velocity as the Blyskawica and Kiev from Poland and RU respectively, torps are comparable.

 

Yes it does have range on the guns, but this Is almost useless regardless.

The torps though overall not great on US DDs it is worse as the ones on the same tier US DD the mahan.

Overall the lower velocity of the shells as the RU and polish DDs me and it can gunfight against them effectively either. 

 

This means:

Against BBs it takes ages to kill them, same for cruisers. (Unless you can go suicide mode and torp them with 8 torps).

 

IJN DDs will know you are there long before you know where they are.

 

Other US, RU and Polish DDs can beat you in a straight up gunfight.

 

So how can we improve this ship?:

either:

- give it access to concealment modification 1.

- increase the shell velocity and damage. (Slight damage increase and about 25% velocity).

 

 

 

 

[IamTroublemaker]

I do not have the Sims, but I can see its stats in my port and I'd really like to know why do people say it underpreforms? It seems like the same ship as Benson with C hull (except the torps) and I really loved my Benson. I rarely used torps on it and still had some great results. I feel like it can only get better with Sims considering it is 1 tier lower.

[Anymn]

I do not have the Sims, but I can see its stats in my port and I'd really like to know why do people say statistics prove it underpreforms? It seems like the same ship as Benson with C hull (except the torps) and I really loved my Benson. I rarely used torps on it and still had some great results. I feel like it can only get better with Sims considering it is 1 tier lower.

 

Shell-flight time.... It's awfull. And oh, Benson has better torps and an extra gun (thus 20% DPM).

[IamTroublemaker]

 

Shell-flight time.... It's awfull. And oh, Benson has better torps and an extra gun (thus 20% DPM).

 

Awful like on every other US DD or even worse?

[Khul]

The guns take some getting used to but recently I've had a bit of success with the long-range torp option; people seemingly don't know about the optional slow torps & the relatively quick reload (compared to IJN) & nice configuration of the launchers mean you can score some surprising hits.

 

It's not the devastating killer it was in OBT, I admit, but I've dusted it off once or twice & enjoyed playing it.

[T0byJug]

Troublemaker_CRO, on 15 February 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:

I do not have the Sims, but I can see its stats in my port and I'd really like to know why do people say statistics prove it underpreforms? It seems like the same ship as Benson with C hull (except the torps) and I really loved my Benson. I rarely used torps on it and still had some great results. I feel like it can only get better with Sims considering it is 1 tier lower.

Shell-flight time.... It's awfull. And oh, Benson has better torps and an extra gun (thus 20% DPM).

 Benson is a tier higher than Sims so should be better. Sims douse have a Rep for High shell ark and flight time.

 Of the 3 Pre order ships the Sims and Yubari were significantly nurfed. Yubari you can counter some what when you start putting Hightier captains in a tier 4 ship!  Sims being tier 7 the diference in captains skills are a lot less apparant as she will often be up against similar commanders in tier 7-9 games

 

Benson however i find has a lot better guns than both the tier 6 and 7 US DD's  gun ark and flight time are a LOT better.

[T0byJug]

It's not the devastating killer it was in OBT, I admit, but I've dusted it off once or twice & enjoyed playing it.

 

 

This is the issue! She was OP in OBT so they made changes! I think they need to re visit her and the Yubari and tweek the balance a bit.

[Anymn]

This is the issue! She was OP in OBT so they made changes! I think they need to re visit her and the Yubari and tweek the balance a bit.

 

Possibly true that it was OP in CBT, and I agree they would rebalance it. But it shouldn't happen that all tier IV ships and higher do more damage/battle then the sims atm does. (click link and sort on avg. damage for numbers)

[ShockPirat]

USN DD torps were rebalanced so mid tier destroyers got long range torps they didn't have before.

Sims didn't get them. It's still stuck with short range strong torps or long range weak torps from its own rebalance.

Giving regular USN torps of that tier to Sims is really all that needs to be done to make it perform on par with Mahan.

And Atlanta should get those too

 

I do not have the Sims, but I can see its stats in my port and I'd really like to know why do people say it underpreforms? It seems like the same ship as Benson with C hull (except the torps) and I really loved my Benson. I rarely used torps on it and still had some great results. I feel like it can only get better with Sims considering it is 1 tier lower.

Concealment module is available for tier 8 and higher so Sims and Atlanta can't mount it. In my opinion, both of them would probably be better ships if they were tier 8 and the stats remained the same. Just because of the Concealment module

My point is, you can't compare Sims to Benson. How did you like the Mahan?

[IamTroublemaker]

Concealment module is available for tier 8 and higher so Sims and Atlanta can't mount it. In my opinion, both of them would probably be better ships if they were tier 8 and the stats remained the same. Just because of the Concealment module

My point is, you can't compare Sims to Benson. How did you like the Mahan?

 

You can't really compare it to Mahan either. The ROF on Sims is same as on Benson and thus better than on Mahan.

 

True, concealment module would have helped a lot.

[aboch]

First of all the stats are not really correct because for the Sims there is only limited data, means less more Sims than any of the other classes, therefor the stats do not tell really the true.

 

Next point, someone compered the Sims to the always best ships of its tier. Comparing that way would make a need of a super OP ship to be better at all of all other ships available, no need to say that this will never happen and that is ok that way.

 

Someone must get to be used to the Sims, no doubt about that. In the beginning when i had it while leveling still the lower tier ships i made only bad games with it due the lack of experience. By now after having leveled all trees to the end and after 3000 games i know how to play it. Of course now it as well helps to have a captain with the Concealment Expert which reduces the range of getting spotted to 6.6km which is ok.

 

The 15.5km range sound good, but honestly, who the hell shoots with a DD from 15.5km? I personally never shoot over 10km anyway expect and if you are more than 10km away from a potential target with a DD you anyway play it totally wrong in my opinion.

 

You have 9.2km Torpedo Range which is again absolutly ok, not to fogert the 2x4 Torpedo Tubes, makes 8 Torps. Hatsuharu of the same level only 6 Tubes to compare with.

 

40.4kn with the Flag, hitting the Power (Turbo :-) ) Button gives you a top speed of about 43kn for a Tier 7 DD, fast enough to hunt other DDs.

18 rounds per minute is really fast shooting, with the Basic Fire Training another 10% more shells. This alone tells you that it is a perfect Jap DD Hunter.

13.800 HP are ok too.

Rudder Shift Time of only 2.1s makes it the fastest reacting ship of ALL tier 7 ships!! Same goes for the turning circle of only 500m, no other ship can turn that fast.

Air Defence is ok, how much can it be anyway on a tier 7 destroyer. Not that much need to compare here.

 

Conclusion. I have no idea why the hell someone would ask for a massive Buff? The ship is at very least ok, if not good if you play it right with a good captain.

 

[aboch]

Forgot to mention the Torpedo Loading time of only 65 seconds. This makes it by far the fastest Torpedo Loading Tier 7 DD in game. While your Torps do less damage than all others of its Tier you shoot in exchance about 1/4 to 1/3 more Torps out.

[Nechrom]

 

I know. But I think its urgent enough to keep it hot, and necroing posts is just not my thing.

 

What you think is irrelevant since the forum rules makes it very clear that duplicate topics are not allowed.

And your comment about necroing makes it clear that you didn't even check for identical topics before starting a new one, since the one I linked is still very much active. I posted in it just 4 days ago and the last post is from earlier today.

[ammattimies]

Well said aboch. I'll also add that since we're talking about a WG Preorder ship here, it's worth being said that you should always look at what you're buying from WG. I had a serious look at those 3 preorder ships before buying and my conclusion was that only the Gremy was worth paying for. When WG had preorders up for World of Tanks back in the day, there was also a chance to get seriously shafted if you'd have bought the Light or Medium pack, those tanks were total rubbish, but the T8 heavy tank M6A2E1 was usable, but pretty silly. (Although I'll add that back then the preorder packs were really about the gold they included, not just the tanks)

I know I'm struggling to stay on topic here but my point is: if WG products look shafty - they probably are! I would have bought it as well if it was intended to be a good ship but since it was sold as a bad ship, I'd rather have it stay as it was, since I can't get it anymore . And as for the actual topic, I guess the shell arc for USN DD guns used to playable and somehow fun to use but now it's a silly joke = I interpret this as WG intending it to be used effectively only at close range. I bought the Atlanta for the lulz and yeah, terrible low range and arc+flight time so bad that you can have those 4 salvoes in the air at the same time before seeing if you're hitting something. Maybe it just has to be in line with all other USN ships ingame, none of them seems really worth playing at the moment, the IJN has a better option for every single ship (more fun to play, more useful, simply better).

 

I don't have a problem with this being the challenge of Sims anyway, that it would be effective with her guns if you were close enough to the target but that can actually be dangerous, so you can't just sit back behind the battleships firing away effectively and watching the front line ships eat enemy torpedoes. You need to get out there and work it. I'm just saying the Atlanta is the ship that is actually suffering from the bad characteristics of those DD guns, not the Sims :p

[Anymn]

Well said aboch. I'll also add that since we're talking about a WG Preorder ship here, it's worth being said that you should always look at what you're buying from WG. I had a serious look at those 3 preorder ships before buying and my conclusion was that only the Gremy was worth paying for. When WG had preorders up for World of Tanks back in the day, there was also a chance to get seriously shafted if you'd have bought the Light or Medium pack, those tanks were total rubbish, but the T8 heavy tank M6A2E1 was usable, but pretty silly. (Although I'll add that back then the preorder packs were really about the gold they included, not just the tanks)

First of all the stats are not really correct because for the Sims there is only limited data, means less more Sims than any of the other classes, therefor the stats do not tell really the true.

 

Hmm.. i did quite a bit of research, and on the day of selling (CBT) it was really a good ship. However when world of warships hits open beta, it was nerfed massively, so all the positive reviews my purchase was grounded on, were rendered useless. It was great, because the great shooting range was a tool, that worked well together with the guns. After WoWs hitted open beta, it was no longer that good combination. So I feel being raped some money off, yes. My damage per game pre- and post-OBT release went from 27k/game to 17k/game. Of course I complain about that, and I'm feeling right. It isn't the product they advertised. The fun factor decreased a lot.

 

As it is now, the Sims underperforms. The data I used proved that clearly. There is a sample size of over 120.000 battles now, which means aboch's argument that there isn't enough data is false. Saying that it "compares to the best tier 7 ships", and that it would be OP is just bullying. The data proves clearly that it is weak, also compared to other premium ships. You can't argue with the data.

 

And yes, I agree, it has some strong points. But it really doesn't explain the differences in statistics between all other ships in the game. When all tier IV ships and higher are doing more damage/game, you know there is something wrong with it. Even when looking to the best 5% games in it, it fells 6.000 short compared to other ships, and even 12.000 damage short when comparing to the Błyskawica.