Problems with High tier games....

[cherry2blost]

Have all but given up with Iowa and Izumo..... reasons?

 

At lower tiers BB push up engage enemy and you generally have a DD out in front DOING ITS' JOB... spotting enemies, dropping torps on engaged ships, screening for DD, letting us know when Torps are incoming etc etc.... Move to Tier 9/10 and you have (mainly) Shimakaze, sitting centrally (back a bit) spamming long range torps, never spotting the enemy, leaving Cruisers to do the spotting (for which they get nuked by A) Long ranged BB fire, or B) same spammed Long range torps.... so that leaves BB, she is left to do spotting, run into torpedo walls, or Sit WAAAAAY back and attempt to snipe the enemy....

 

I have no idea how WG are going to progress this game onto a high tier basis as in its' current format it is awful, players up there are some of the mouthiest, most toxic of any of the tiers, no one even tries to give support to one another and then the ubiquitous 'Noob Camper' accusations begin as the 'non supportive' players watch their teams either sitting back, or pushing and dying....

 

Something REALLY needs to change and change fast as without end game content there is not going to be a future for this game that we all love so much........

 

[Spellfire40]

And how does your BB helps the DD to keep alive when it runs into oposing DDs? Suporting DDS is the CAs job. As long as BBs total decimate CAs doing their job you cant blame IJN DDs wich are not designed to get into Gun fights play it safe.

 

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

Must agree t9 games was most fail for me while grinded t9, like most of all told games t4-8 fine , after just sux bad

[Lieut_Gruber]

When playing my Kagero, i still try to launch from about 7km, even when my torps have 15km range. Launching at those long distances usualy result in a miss, or 1 lucky hit maybe.

[mike_864]

In my very first game at T10 in my Des Moines i was welcomed in the team chat even before the battle commenced with " Hey, when did u buy your DM from e-bay noob" ... WTF..!! this was coming from our CV player who didn't let up the whole game, welcome to T10.

 

BTW, we lost that game ( say hello to a whopping 250.000cr repair bill ) but i finished top in our team.!

 

Mike.

 

 

[Hanszeehock]

When playing my Kagero, i still try to launch from about 7km, even when my torps have 15km range. Launching at those long distances usualy result in a miss, or 1 lucky hit maybe.

 

Exactly this. I have the Shima and the Fletcher, I always spot and close the range even if this means I sometimes die early when running into enemy DDs. So not all DD drivers hang back. The bigger problem at high tiers is BBs not pushing.

[cherry2blost]

And how does your BB helps the DD to keep alive when it runs into oposing DDs? Suporting DDS is the CAs job. As long as BBs total decimate CAs doing their job you cant blame IJN DDs wich are not designed to get into Gun fights play it safe.

 

 

See this is where the plain stupidity of the playerbase come to its' fore.... DD spots enemy DD, NOT Shoot, Cruisers kill said DD from behind you.... Use the IJN Camo and spot without being spotted? maybe?

 

When playing my Kagero, i still try to launch from about 7km, even when my torps have 15km range. Launching at those long distances usualy result in a miss, or 1 lucky hit maybe.

 

You appear to be in the minority matey, most Higher tier IJN DD  see, do exactly as I said in opening post, sit back and spam torps into a general area.... how are your bigger ships supposed to support anyone when they A) cant see crap, B) cant push up because they KNOW there will be a torpedo wall incoming so have to sit back? It is broken, plain and simple the mechanism is BROKEN, !

[Hanszeehock]

Cherry have you played higher tier DDs ?

[cherry2blost]

 

Exactly this. I have the Shima and the Fletcher, I always spot and close the range even if this means I sometimes die early when running into enemy DDs. So not all DD drivers hang back. The bigger problem at high tiers is BBs not pushing.

 

But how can we push 'blindly' into torp spam? I am notorious for ALWAYS being on the pointy end of a push, preferably with a DD out in front screening and a nice funky cruiser to deal with planes and enemy DD but unfortunately the current Meta allows   insists that IJN DD (in the majority) do the opposite and sit way back spamming, all the BB ? Cruiser players know it, why else is every Higher Tier match now dominated by IJN DD? becasue it's EASY !

[cherry2blost]

Cherry have you played higher tier DDs ?

 

here we go again, have I played T10 IJN DD... No I have not.... been on the recieving end way too many times to subject anyone else to the same..... have YOU played anything other than High Tier IJN DD, on the live server, for a while... I bet not.... 

[Mayv]

 

See this is where the plain stupidity of the playerbase come to its' fore.... DD spots enemy DD, NOT Shoot, Cruisers kill said DD from behind you.... Use the IJN Camo and spot without being spotted? maybe?

 

 

This is going to work so well when IJN and USN detection ranges are equal or 200m difference at high tiers.

 

 

[_Flyto_]

I haven't played above T7, but even from what I see there (and I assume it's worse with T8+), I can't see this behaviour changing much with the current class mechanics.

The only people who can do anything about torp walls are the cruisers (or perhaps some of the DD gunboats?), and if they move forward enough to spot the enemy DDs they will be immediately obliterated by the enemy battleships.

I can't help feeling that CA survivability is the key to this.

(or limited torp reloads.... )

[Hanszeehock]

 

But how can we push 'blindly' into torp spam? I am notorious for ALWAYS being on the pointy end of a push, preferably with a DD out in front screening and a nice funky cruiser to deal with planes and enemy DD but unfortunately the current Meta allows   insists that IJN DD (in the majority) do the opposite and sit way back spamming, all the BB ? Cruiser players know it, why else is every Higher Tier match now dominated by IJN DD? becasue it's EASY !

 

I'm sorry but this is not my experience. Not every higher tier battle is like this, we all have a few bad games and get upset. 

[Hanszeehock]

 

here we go again, have I played T10 IJN DD... No I have not.... been on the recieving end way too many times to subject anyone else to the same..... have YOU played anything other than High Tier IJN DD, on the live server, for a while... I bet not.... 

 

Shame, because you would have a completely different perspective if you did. 

[bushwacker001]

 

But how can we push 'blindly' into torp spam? I am notorious for ALWAYS being on the pointy end of a push, preferably with a DD out in front screening and a nice funky cruiser to deal with planes and enemy DD but unfortunately the current Meta allows   insists that IJN DD (in the majority) do the opposite and sit way back spamming, all the BB ? Cruiser players know it, why else is every Higher Tier match now dominated by IJN DD? becasue it's EASY !

 

This is VERY true.  Being also a bit of a BB pusher (not as mental as cherry) out of the 4 or 5 times we have faced each other in randoms,  in 3 of the battles our games have ended with a bushwacker/Cherry ram fest.  

 

On topic, Although not played many games in my Iowa, when I have played it, all I tend to see is scores of little red triangles appearing from the enemy side causing me to maybe take one or two and then hanging back due to the reasons stated in the OP. 

[cherry2blost]

I haven't played above T7, but even from what I see there (and I assume it's worse with T8+), I can't see this behaviour changing much with the current class mechanics.

The only people who can do anything about torp walls are the cruisers (or perhaps some of the DD gunboats?), and if they move forward enough to spot the enemy DDs they will be immediately obliterated by the enemy battleships.

I can't help feeling that CA survivability is the key to this.

(or limited torp reloads.... )

 

Limited torps loads, would at least make them THINK about when and where to shoot.... rather than constant random spam.

 

 

I'm sorry but this is not my experience. Not every higher tier battle is like this, we all have a few bad games and get upset. 

 

So you are saying that in the majority of T9/10 battles your Shaimakaze is NOT the highest scorer? or the 2nd or 3rd, often all 3? Or that this does not force enemy BB/Cruisers to hang back and 'hope' to get the odd shot in? You my ST friend must be playing a different game.....

[Hanszeehock]

So you are saying that in the majority of T9/10 battles your Shaimakaze is NOT the highest scorer? or the 2nd or 3rd, often all 3? Or that this does not force enemy BB/Cruisers to hang back and 'hope' to get the odd shot in? You my ST friend must be playing a different game.....

 

As if BBs were not powerful enough, they need a counter and DDs are it. But I think you are exaggerating, for example what is your survival rate in a T10 BB ? Do you realise how many torp hits you need to take down a Yamato ? From Warships today, the Yamato vs the Shima, the BB has a higher WR, high average damage (by a long way) and higher survival rate. I expect most Shima players have a hit rate with torps below 10%, add in the 2 minute reload and the torp wall is seen in a different perspective. When I sink BBs it is usually because they are sailing in a straight line for ages or are not moving, going backwards or hugging an island.

 

And finally we are not friends and being a ST has nothing to do with me being able to express a personal opinion. 

[Spellfire40]

 

See this is where the plain stupidity of the playerbase come to its' fore.... DD spots enemy DD, NOT Shoot, Cruisers kill said DD from behind you.... Use the IJN Camo and spot without being spotted? maybe?

 

 

You appear to be in the minority matey, most Higher tier IJN DD  see, do exactly as I said in opening post, sit back and spam torps into a general area.... how are your bigger ships supposed to support anyone when they A) cant see crap, B) cant push up because they KNOW there will be a torpedo wall incoming so have to sit back? It is broken, plain and simple the mechanism is BROKEN, !

 

You are actually reading what wrote? CA that stick in ranges to suport DDs get killed nearly instantly by BBs. Most perceived BB/DD Problems could be fixed without nerfing/buffing by adresing CA surviability so that that Class actually can do its Job  instand of being forced to shoot from max range to survive.

[fubiah]

I dont get why people shy away from high tier DD, afraid to push because you might take 1 or 2 torps.

If you push at the DD you have a good chance of spotting it and killing it (if you use a fighter plane ect) run away or hang back and you will take a lot more than 1 or 2 torps as going slower will reduce your ability to turn and makes for easy aiming for said DD.

I have a T10 DD and BB and know how easy it can be to be killed in a ijn DD, 2 min reload added to how hard it is to hit torps on a head on target and crap guns and your toast if your spotted.

Yes its easy to get a good random round in a shima but mostly because of BB travelling at 25-50% speed and lack of enemy willing to risk hunting you.

[cherry2blost]

 

As if BBs were not powerful enough, they need a counter and DDs are it. But I think you are exaggerating, for example what is your survival rate in a T10 BB ? Do you realise how many torp hits you need to take down a Yamato ? From Warships today, the Yamato vs the Shima, the BB has a higher WR, high average damage (by a long way) and higher survival rate. I expect most Shima players have a hit rate with torps below 10%, add in the 2 minute reload and the torp wall is seen in a different perspective. When I sink BBs it is usually because they are sailing in a straight line for ages or are not moving, going backwards or hugging an island.

 

And finally we are not friends and being a ST has nothing to do with me being able to express a personal opinion. 

 

[edited]

[Hanszeehock]

quoted post removed

Thanks for your substantive response to the points I made. I know I only have 2,000 battles on live so clearly I know nothing.

[shulzidar]

 When playing my Kagero, i still try to launch from about 7km, even when my torps have 15km range. Launching at those long distances usualy result in a miss, or 1 lucky hit maybe. 

 

I just think this thread is just another BB whinning post about Shimas in disguise... As ANY DD commander always tries to get as close to their enemy as possible...

 

...Unless there is CV pressence, in which case, you are forced to stay close to the main battle groups... In either case, BOTH, result in DDs doing vanguard job (And I repeat by the n-th time... that I don't agree with this situation, as DD shouldn't steal that role crom CA, but the problem is always the same, CA range vs BB range).

 

 

...In any case, it's true that I have seen some Shimas performing horribly since the Shima was declared FOTM... After inspecting some profiles, I have detected a lot of players new to Shimas with the signs of "rushed" IJN DD lines, which may explain why some players have really "bought" the myth that "Long Range" means camping on the back as DD...

 

...In time they will get bored and check by themselves the reality behind "myths" extended by whiners.

[cherry2blost]

 

Thanks for your substantive response to the points I made. I know I only have 2,000 battles on live so clearly I know nothing.

 

[edited]

[Msiiek]

I think the problem is there are sometimes like 5 shimakaze in one team. Imagine a 2 carrier in division, they can focus one target from different direction and out would not have a chance to dodge any torpedos. Note you get the 3 shimakaze division, and they can screen launch torps at so big area that even if you turn instantly, the torps will come at your position. If you have too many same ships on the game they will be op (like 5 yamatos in one team, or 5 shimakaze). Mostly mm is bad for me not the ships. Also there is no carriers in high tier that could spot and there won't be after patch I think.

[Mayv]

 

bit like you didn't 'know' about your mate? eh? 

 

Must be no problems with DDs then if people are already resorting to personal attacks 20 odd posts in.