mr3awsome Alpha Tester 3,769 posts 58 battles Report post #1026 Posted February 28, 2014 Secondary armament in general, not just surface battery. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the_Undertaker99 Players 32 posts Report post #1027 Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) The big Problem of the Graf Zeppelin and other German Carriers, is not the Defensive armament, It is the Aircraft capacity! The most German Carriers have capacity of in total 20-45 planes! zB the Europa Oceanliner Conversion (292 m) a candidate of a possible second tier 10 Carrier tree, have omly a capacity of 42 Aircraft. Edited February 28, 2014 by the_Undertaker99 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PRAVD] Orlunu Alpha Tester 1,427 posts 923 battles Report post #1028 Posted March 1, 2014 Am I the only one trembling at the idea of carriers being balanced on the basis of their surface armament? Well, I'm managing to convince myself that they won't bring in any help from the WoT "balancing" team, so I'm only a little worried that this will happen. If they do though ... we may well end up at "Smaller carriers are harder to hit, put the CVEs at tier IX-X." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IDarkMessiahI Alpha Tester 30 posts 67 battles Report post #1029 Posted March 1, 2014 What Brummer are we talking about in tier 1? The one from 1884 or the one from 1915? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the_Undertaker99 Players 32 posts Report post #1030 Posted March 2, 2014 I think it is the MinenKreuzer( 4x 15 cm, 2x 8,8 cm, 2x Torpedotubes and 400 Mines) of 1915. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deamon93 Sailing Hamster 3,124 posts 1,275 battles Report post #1031 Posted March 2, 2014 Yeah it's the 1915 one, there aren't any ship prior 1900. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IDarkMessiahI Alpha Tester 30 posts 67 battles Report post #1032 Posted March 2, 2014 Thanks for the answer. I thought so too, but i wasn´t sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr3awsome Alpha Tester 3,769 posts 58 battles Report post #1033 Posted March 2, 2014 Yeah it's the 1915 one, there aren't any ship prior 1900. The only ships that are competitive enough from before 1900 are cruisers, and those would be tier 2 premiums, more likely than not. e.g. Aurora, and that might be in the Revolutionary layout Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PHX] Silverlane Alpha Tester 102 posts 5,245 battles Report post #1034 Posted March 3, 2014 Since I can't reply to Q/A topics i ask here: Anyone know if the USS Iowa will carry the 'Vought OS2U Kingfisher' or the 'Curtiss SC-1 Seahawk' ? Greetz Silverlane Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr3awsome Alpha Tester 3,769 posts 58 battles Report post #1035 Posted March 3, 2014 We don't know, but theoretically it should start with the OS2U as stock and have the SC-1 as an upgrade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PHX] Silverlane Alpha Tester 102 posts 5,245 battles Report post #1036 Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) We don't know, but theoretically it should start with the OS2U as stock and have the SC-1 as an upgrade. Ah sure, I didn't consider that Edited March 3, 2014 by Silverlane Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RSNRW] Kazuya Players 7 posts 8,909 battles Report post #1037 Posted March 4, 2014 Geez russians are so creative with names , all projects and objects im suprised it's not squares and triangles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedBear87 Players 1,244 posts Report post #1038 Posted March 4, 2014 Geez russians are so creative with names , all projects and objects im suprised it's not squares and triangles.In some cases they strictly followed the Soviet practice, which is used even today, but some of those ships that were laid down (but never completed) are also known after their lead ship in western literature, for example Project 23 is Sovetsky Soyuz class, Project 82 is Stalingrad class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the_Undertaker99 Players 32 posts Report post #1039 Posted March 10, 2014 Ähm H-79 Prem-BC, you mean this H-79 Design? Design 1047 Pre-Note I would like to share this percular plan, For it was quite interesting..being planned by the Dutch and Germany "together". I will make this vessel review 2 parts...due to being a deeply detailed subject. Introduction During 1938, The Dutch required a war-time vessel to be used in service of the RRN (Royal Netherlands Navy). With a naval unit at hand, the Dutch believed this would be the chance to obtain a stronghold on their military power.They though that, with a strong vessel...their hostilities would require great forces to defeat this theorized ship. In 1939, the Dutch started designing plans on their "greatly" vessel under supervision of J.J.C Van Dijk.... Minister of defense. At first, the Dutch mocked up 3 light cruisers to be made, Soon™™ that changed to 2 Battle-cruisers after J.J.C informed them of the situation. The production of these Battle-cruisers were to be held directly at Dutch ports. They were planned to be roughly 240 meters with a limit of 4 shafts to suffice 180.000 SHP. What the Dutch wanted: Quote Speed: Maximum speed in tropical waters to be 32 kts., to be sustained at least 12 hours. Acceleration from 20 kts., cruising speed to 30 kts. to possible within 15 minutes. Propulsion: Not to be fitted with peacetime propellers, which would necessitate changing propellers during times of tension. Well thought out engineroom subdivision, to limit possible loss of speed in case of being hit in this area. Radius: To be 4500 NM at 20 kts., to compare with the 1938 Light Cruiser Design. Heavy Artillery: Three 28cm triple turrets, 120 rounds per gun. Turrets to be fitted for independent firing. Medium Artillery: Serving as anti-aircraft and anti-torpedoboat battery. Four twin 12cm mounts (as in gunboats but need not be stabilized), 120 rounds per gun, 100 starshells. All 12cm guns to be capable of independent firing. Light Artillery: One group of three twin 40mm machineguns to be fitted forward with centralized fire control; one group of four twin 40mm mounts to be fitted aft with centralized fire control. 1000 rounds per barrel to be carried. Torpedoes: No torpedo armament. Aircraft: Two fighter aircraft and two reconnaissance aircraft. If possible, two catapults to be fitted (one to port and one to starboard). Hangar for at least two aircraft. Armor: (a) Excellent anti-torpedo and anti-mine protection. (b) Armor in general to be able to withstand 28cm shell hits and 300kg aircraft bombs. © Armor scheme to be as follows: Main belt to extend from aft to forward turret 250 mm Remaining waterline belt - 80 mm Main armored belt - 125 mm Splinterdeck on top of armored deck - 30 mm Control tower sides - 300 mm Control tower roof - 150 mm 28cm turrets barbette - 250 mm 28cm turrets front - 300 mm 28cm turrets roof - 150 mm 28cm turrets sides - 100 mm 12cm mounts barbette - 80 mm 12cm mounts front - 80 mm 12cm mounts roof - 125 mm 12cm mounts to be protected against the effect of 200kg aircraft bombs and 14cm shell hits. (d) Steering gear to be well protected. (e) Machine guns to be mounted on armored decks and protected with 40mm splinter armor (f) Anti-torpedo bulkheads extending to double bottom and to be able to absorb 53cm torpedo hits. Draft: Deep load draft not exceeding 9 meters, preferably less. Logistics: Supplies to last for six weeks. 60 tons fuel for Dornier aircraft. 25 tons fuel for MTBs. 100 tons aircraft fuel. Complement: Accommodations for 50 officers, 100 non-commissioned officers, 900 ratings. General: It was to be investigated what possible financial savings could be achieved if the main battery was reduced to six guns. What the Dutch came up with: Quote Dimensions Length on DWL - 230.00m Beam-max. (over armor) - 29.65m Beam-max. (over frames) - 29.00m Draft (trial displacement) - 7.45m Molded depth (centerline) - 13.80m Molded depth (sides) - 13.40m Displacement Washington- 26000 t Trial - 26998.5T Normal load - 27916.0T Machinery Shaft horsepower - 160000 Drive Steam turbines Boilers- 4 x 2 Propellers - 4 Max. speed - 33 kts. Radius - 4500 NM at 20 kts. Armament Main armament - 9 x 28cm in triple turrets (120 rounds per gun) Secondary armament - 8 x 12cm in twin turrets (200 rounds per gun) Anti-aircraft armament - 14 x 40mm in twin mounts (1000 rounds per gun) Various armaments - 2 catapults 2 aircraft. Armor & protection Vertical side belt - 250mm tapering upwards to 150mm side belt - 250mm tapering upwards to 150mm and 100mm side aft - 100mm side forward - 100mm longitudinal bulkheads - two 30mm each side main transverse bulkheads - not indicated Horizontal main armored deck - 125mm upper deck 15mm Artillery - 28cm turret front - 300mm roof - 130mm sides - 100mm barbette - 250mm Underwater double bottom depth - 1.00m depth of side protective system - 7.00m depth of main side belt - 6.00m (2.45m below DWL). System consisting of two longitudinal anti-torpedo bulkheads on each side. Various 2 paravanes, 3 smokemakers, 100m3 gasoline. Coefficients of form Block coefficient - 0.5193 Midship section coefficient - 0.9617 Prismatic coefficient - 0.5400 Waterline coefficient - 0.6700 However....the Dutch faced a problem... The Germans When the Dutch added up everything and was nearing production phase...they realized, They couldn't build even one of the Battle-cruisers! They lacked the money and resources to start the production of their designs. Also added to that...they lacked the knowledge of modernized naval technology after the first world war, rendering them useless in planning naval vessels. So they had to rely on neighboring nations for help. The Dutch wanted France to help and lend them their planned battle-cruisers....but instead they asked Germany for aid in their project. So the project was "temporally" taken over by the German government. The Dutch group left to Berlin (24 and 25 of April), where they would plan the phases out with the Germans. Germany became hooked to this project and decided to venture further into it...regardless of the Dutch that changed their minds. They decided to just adopt a Gneisenau-class, but was ignored. They consulted more with Germany until they turned them down. Gneisenau would not be released to the Netherlands, and its production was to be kept secret with Germany. So, Germany made orders on the needed materials (below). Quote Equipment Required delivery date 37,500 tons of armor June 1940 through - January 1944 (the bulk to be delivered before January 1943) 18,000 tons of construction material - June 1940 through June 1943 (the bulk to be delivered before January 1942) nine 28cm triple turrets and twelve 12cm twin mounts - Spring 1943 through late 1943 28cm and 12cm ammunition - Late 1943 through late 1944 6 catapults - July 1943 through late 1944 Propeller shafts - Late 1941 through late 1943 Various equipment for propulsion plant - 1940 through 1942 15,000 tons of steel to be used for the construction of a floating dry dock - During 1942 After time flew by, Germany was able to roughly plan the statistics of the Battle-cruiser on 13th of July, 1939. Admiral Bartenbach (Leader of Naval affairs between the Netherlands and Germany) told the Dutch that they will continue their own orders over the Dutch design plan. However, Krupp continued their plans on furthering the vessel (plan wise). Quote Dimensions Length on DWL - 227m Beam - 30m Draft on DWL - 8m Moulded depth - 14m Displacement (metric tons) Hull (S I-IV) - 8000 Armor & Protection (P) - 9900 Main engines (M I) - 3100 Aux. engines (M II) - 1000 Aircraft - 80 Gunnery armament - 4100 Equipment - 650 Water - 200 Reserve - 470 Type displacement - 27500 Feed water & fuel oil - 2000 Legend displacement (DWL) - 29500 Type displacement - 27500 Max fuel oil - 4600 Lubricating oil, etc. - 200 Feed water - 160 Reserve drinking & washing water - 340 Full load displacement - 33000 Machinery SHP ca. - 172.000 Main engines - 4 high pressure turbine sets Radius ca. - 5500 NM at 20 kts. Speed (legend displacement) ca. - 33 kts. Armament Armament: 9 x 28 cm in triple turrets (150 rounds per gun) 8 x 12 cm in twin turrets (200 rounds per gun) 16 x 40 mm (ammo not indicated) Armor and protection Vertical side belt - 225mm Side aft - 60mm Side forward - 30mm Citadel - 60mm Longitudinal side bulkheads - 30mm and 20mm Citadel longitudinal bulkhead - 15mm Horizontal main deck - 100 and 125mm upper deck - 30 and 20 mm Artillery 28cm barrette - 170mm and 225mm Later Planning Later in development...both countries were able to figure out what would be what. Krupp and the Dutch both agreed to equip the Battle-cruiser with one 28,3cm (triple) turret and with 12 cm twin AA (2) guns. This plan lasted quite shortly...and both groups agreed to change the plans (Or detail them, I'm not sure how they did it) of the vessel to something more viable. Instead of one triple 28,3cm battery..they decided to add 3. Which...makes sense ...right? Plans (after upgrades in battery #): Quote (3) 28,3cm triple turret Projectile weight - ca. 300 kg Initial velocity (v) - 850-900 m/s Recoil - ca. 250t per barrel Max. elevation - 45o Max. depression - 10o Elevation - hydraulic Training - electric Ammo storage - separate loading arrangements for projectiles (lower) and powder bags (upper). Electrical power needed: - 500 kW max. - 260 kW average. Armor: front: 300mm forward incline: 200mm roof: 150mm sides: 100mm back: P.M. barbette: 250 mm Turret weight - ca. 800 t --------------------------------------------- (2) 12 cm twin AA Max. elevation - 80o Max. depression - 10o Armor front: ca. 80 mm roof: ca. 150 mm sides: ca. 50 mm back: P.M. The Fire control positions: Quote (1) 28cm battery (a) one main fire control position forward (director control tower). (b) one reserve fire control position aft (director control tower). © one fire control position each in the superimposed forward turret and in the aft turret. (d) Main and reserve fire control positions were to be fully identical with a 9 meter optical base with target and laying centers co-located in a turntable platform protected by an armored cupola; both would have an independent computing center. (2) 12cm battery Two fire control positions with a 3 meter optical base with target information and gun laying enters combined in a platform protected by an armored cupola. (3) 40mm battery To be controlled autonomously from the gun positions. Costing Adding up everything needed for the vessel...the price of this vessel would roughly sum up to 69,212,555 Dutch Guilders ($37,412,192 USD). Quote (1) Shipbuilding Hull - 975.000 Armor - 15.625.000 160.000 SHP propulsion plant - 9.600.000 Fittings (including catapult) - 6.396.750 Trials & Insurance - 960.000 Wages - 3.400.000 Design & Drawings - 1.500.000 Storage - 3.740.000 Shipbuilding cost (w/o profit) - 42.196.750 6% profit 2.531.805 ------------------------------------------------------------- Total shipbuilding cost - 44,728,555 Quote (2) Armament 3 28cm triple turrets - 10.500.000 28cm ammo (1080 rounds) - 1.350.000 28cm fire control - 750.000 Optical rangefinders - 300.000 4 12cm twin turrets - 2.000.000 12cm ammo (1600 rounds) - 200.000 starshells (100) - 35.000 12cm fire control - 1.400.000 Optical rangefinders - 120.000 7 40mm twin mounts - 450.000 Fire control - 400.000 Optical equipment - 80.000 40mm ammo (14000 rounds) - 300.000 20 12.7mm twin mounts - 340.000 12.7mm ammo (30.000 rounds) - 50.000 Reserve ammo (100%) - 1.935.000 2 additional 12cm twin turrets (including fire control and optics) - 1.160.000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Total Armament cost - 21.370.000 (3) Various equipment Supplied by the Navy - 3.114.000 Total - 69,212,555 DFL found it at the War Tunder Navy forum 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr3awsome Alpha Tester 3,769 posts 58 battles Report post #1040 Posted March 10, 2014 Design 1047 and H-79 are two related designs, with the former being the combined work and the latter being the continuation of development by the Germans only. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr3awsome Alpha Tester 3,769 posts 58 battles Report post #1041 Posted March 10, 2014 In other news: Update! CV Seydlitz to tier 4 CL Konigsberg (1927) to tier 6 CL Leipzig to tier 7 BC Furious to tier 3 CL Tone to tier 9 Rendered Ships: USN - CV Lexington, Langley, BB Michigan, Colorado, CL Omaha IJN - CV Hosho, DD Isokaze Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedBear87 Players 1,244 posts Report post #1042 Posted March 10, 2014 Deamon93 will love this piece of info For Tier X fighters we are thinking about Me 262 and Ta 183. High tier torpedo bomber can be Arado or Me.410 modifications. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deamon93 Sailing Hamster 3,124 posts 1,275 battles Report post #1043 Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) Edited March 11, 2014 by BigBadVuk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedBear87 Players 1,244 posts Report post #1044 Posted March 11, 2014 Additional update: Zuiho class and Ryuho at tier V, on two different lines. This means there are three carriers currently at tier V, effectively they're all pretty similar except for the lower speed of Ryuho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr3awsome Alpha Tester 3,769 posts 58 battles Report post #1045 Posted March 11, 2014 Update! (My job ) DD Amazon to tier 6 DD Ambuscade to tier 6 DD A-class to tier 6 (a large "Whut?" moment occurs at this point) CVL Zuiho to tier 5 CVL Ryuho to tier 5 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedBear87 Players 1,244 posts Report post #1046 Posted March 11, 2014 Update! (My job ) Lol, actually I messed up, somehow I got confused between this last EU Q/A and the previous US one, so I only added that bit about the carriers' tier which Ev1n posted separately. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr3awsome Alpha Tester 3,769 posts 58 battles Report post #1047 Posted March 11, 2014 Just let me do it, it'll be less confusing... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daimon_Frey_89 Alpha Tester 253 posts 583 battles Report post #1048 Posted March 12, 2014 so... no time for anything, sorry for delay if any ship should go into other line let me know, i'll correct it on friday btw i treat CVL as CV, if i should introduce another class/color let me know http://vader.joemonster.org/upload/qje/1184033a3bbe3e7wows_gb_horizontal.jpg http://vader.joemonster.org/upload/qje/1184032acf6386ewows_japan_horizonta.jpg http://vader.joemonster.org/upload/qje/11840311ca236c2wows_germany.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr3awsome Alpha Tester 3,769 posts 58 battles Report post #1049 Posted March 12, 2014 Couple of things: A-class should be in the same line as the other Admiralty designs Amazon should be in line with the Thornycroft designs Ambuscade should be in line the Yarrow designs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the_Undertaker99 Players 32 posts Report post #1050 Posted March 12, 2014 Well the tier 6 Nürnberg CL is a Leipzig class Kreuzer, you see: -> Leipzig-Klasse Übersicht Typ: Leichter Kreuzer Einheiten: LeipzigNürnberg Technische Daten Verdrängung: Entwurf: 6750 t Standard: 7150 ts (6756 t) Einsatz: 8060 ts (8260 t) Länge: über alles: 181 m Konstruktionswasserlinie: 170 m Breite: 16,4 m Tiefgang: 5,7 m Bewaffnung: 9 × 15-cm in Drillingstürmen 8 × 8,8-cm-Flak in Doppellafetten 8 × 3,7-cm-Flak in Doppellafetten 14 × 2-cm-Flak 12 × 53,3-cm-Torpedorohre (vier Dreifachsätze) 120 Seeminen Geschwindigkeit: Maximal: 32 kn Besatzung: 850 Offiziere und Mannschaften Reichweite: 5600 sm bei 19 Knoten Antrieb: 2 Satz Getriebeturbinen mit Rädergetriebe 6 ölgefeuerte Doppelenderkessel 4 doppeltwirkende 7-Zyl.-Zweitakt-Diesel mit Vulcan-Getriebe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
