Dear WG please reconsider gradual dispersion of benefits for the upcoming v0.5.3 captain skills instead of strict "binary ON/OFF" cut-off points!

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

IMHO the gradual dispersion for everything is always better than strict "binary ON/OFF" cut-off points!

This would mean that all classes of ships (DD, CA/CL, BB) would benefit and that no user would be feeling "cheated"!

 

In other words...

 

 

Basic Firing Training

-10% to reload time of guns with a caliber of up to 139 mm (was 155 mm till v0.5.3).
+10% to AA efficiency (accuracy).

 

Why not introduce gradual dispersion based on caliber (for example)?

 

-10% up to 139 mm

-8% from 139 mm  to 155 mm

-5% from 155 mm to 203 mm

-3% from 203 mm to 460 mm

 

 

Advanced Firing Training

+20% to firing range of guns with caliber of up to 139 mm (was 155 mm till v0.5.3).
+20% to AA defense firing range.

 

Why not introduce gradual dispersion based on caliber (for example)?

 

+20% up to 139 mm

+15% from 139 mm  to 155 mm

+10% from 155 mm to 203 mm

+5% from 203 mm to 460 mm

 

 

Expert Marksman

+2.5 deg/s to the traverse speed of guns with a caliber of up to 139 mm (was 155 mm till v0.5.3).
+0.7 deg/s to the traverse speed of guns with a caliber above 139 mm (was 155 mm till v0.5.3).

 

Why not introduce gradual dispersion based on caliber (for example)?

 

+2.5 deg/s up to 139 mm

+2 deg/s 139 mm  to 155 mm

+1 deg/s from 155 mm to 203 mm

+0.7 deg/s from 203 mm to 460 mm

 

 

Manual Fire Control for Secondary Armament

-15% to the maximum dispersion of secondary armament shells for Tier I-VI ships

-60% to the maximum dispersion of secondary armament shells for Tier VII-Х ships

 

Why not introduce gradual dispersion based on Tier (for example)?

 

-15% for Tier I

-20% for Tier II

-25% for Tier III

-30% for Tier IV

-35% for Tier V

-40% for Tier VI

-45% for Tier VII

-50% for Tier VIII

-55% for Tier IX

-60% for Tier X

 

 

This was gradual increases would make everyone feeling that they all got something!

 

 

Please reconsider!

 

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Panocek]

Don't worry your head about your idea going anywhere, its EU, forum for ignored people meant to be milked

 

If anything try posting on RU forums, here you have largest, that is non 0 chance of going anywhere

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

Don't worry your head about your idea going anywhere, its EU, forum for ignored people meant to be milked

 

If anything try posting on RU forums, here you have largest, that is non 0 chance of going anywhere

 

I still have faith...

 

 

Please look at this:

 

There is new information about what developers said on what they are planning to change in the next season of ranked battles. This is taken from a video by getfun. He referred to a recent post by developers on the RU forum, which I unfortunately could not find. With a pinch of salt:

 

On stars:

Even if you lose, you would get the star if you have at least 1000 points of base experience (i.e. without premium, flags or specials).

 

Even if you win, you would not get the star if you have less than 300 points of base experience.

 

For Russian speakers:

Starting from 2:45

 

 

 

BTW, few months ago...

 

 

"Proposal: Simple and elegant solution for better fairness in "Ranked Battles"..."

http://forum.worldof...ranked-battles/

 

 

Hi all,

 

Proposal: Simple and elegant solution for better fairness in "Ranked Battles"...

 

Basic idea

The goal is to reward good players in winning team, do not punish the good players in loosing team and sieve-out the bad players!

 

Methodology

 

The only metrics that we can reliably use is "Basic Experience" (i.e. without any modifiers like "Premium" or other multipliers).

 

Here is example of one ranked battle:

 

 

Lets calculate the average for the winning team:

 

(1496 + 1460 + 1078 + 1040 + 1002 + 920 + 25) / 7 = 7021 / 7 = 1003

 

50% of the average for the winning team is 502

75% of the average for the winning team is 752

 

Winning Team

 

All players in winning team with "Basic Experience" above 50% of the average for the winning team will gain one star and will advance.

 

All players in winning team with "Basic Experience" below 50% of the average for the winning team will stay as they are and not gain or loose the star (i.e. they didn't contribute enough).

 

Loosing Team

 

All players in loosing team with "Basic Experience" above 75% of the average for the winning team will not lose their star (i.e. they will not degrade and will stay as they are because they played well).

 

All players in loosing team with "Basic Experience" below 75% of the average for the winning team will loose their star and degrade.

 

 

Our example

 

 

So... in our example the last player in winning team (Cleveland) would not gain the star because it contributed too little and the 1st player in loosing team (Pensacola) will not loose the star because he/she played good enough!

 

 

What do you think guys?

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Pajosaurus]

I'm with you. I've expressed a similar sentiment on the boards as well. Not sure why WG insists on this silly binary approach where a skill is either ubercool or worthless/non-applicable. 

 

And honestly, if they're doing this for supposed balance reasons, I've personally never had problems with cruiser captains rocking AFT against me, but I definitely had problems with good DD captains in Russian gunboats rocking AFT against me. The only thing you can do against those is to run the hell away.

[Gunship14]

That's a really good idea. Skills need to be more useful for more classes/ships and create a wider variety of gameplay options. As it is now, certain ships have a choice between getting the same skill as everyone else, or being completely useless. 

[MartiniHenrie]

Some good ideas, they would benefit every class rather than the 8inchers that are currently left out and the unknown variables we are getting. 

[Comrad_StaIin]

you want Yamatos with 40km range ? 

 

[Ebu34]

I'm out of positive vote again today. +1

 

Also i wanna add something regarding  Manual Fire Control for Secondary Armament

 

I want to suggest that this skill's level shouldn't be Level 5. Maybe you can bring prerequisite such as, Your captain level should be at least 10 to get this perk or similar fashion but not at Level 5 not for 5 points.

[Ebu34]

you want Yamatos with 40km range ? 

 Good luck to hit BB let alone a CA beyond 25 km range. It means nothing.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

you want Yamatos with 40km range ? 

 

 

Yamato would gain MAX 5% - that is hardly 40 km...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[TakeMeRiver]

I would very much prefer if they did it this way, altho maybe I just don't like the fact my warspite can only get -15% dispersion while the ship 1 tier higher can get 60% 

 

[RamirezKurita]

I've said before that the BFT and AFT skills should only affect AA and secondaries, with the primary batteries being unaffected. For those that wish to increase the range and fire rate of their primaries, a parallel set of skills should be implemented that only affect primary batteries (but affect all primaries, regardless of calibre). That way players have a choice as to what play style to build into rather than a simple "one size fits all" build that gives them everything they want, as well as not screwing over players that play ships that don't quite fit into the artificial cutoffs, which creates weird optimisation scenarios with calibre (as for some reason, the IJN Kumas would be significantly more powerful if they relined their guns down to 139mm rather than 140mm?) as well as the old issues with lighter calibres having major advantages over larger ones.

 

Expert marksman should simply be changed into a percentage increase to the turning rate. That way there's no artificial cutoffs and the overall effect wouldn't change much as larger calibres tend to have slower traverse rates anyway, so it would only remove the abuse case scenarios.

 

Manual Secondaries I haven't seen enough of to make an educated decision about, but my main concern is that secondaries tend to get better with tiers anyway range increases, so such a skill leaves secondary reliant brawlers in the lower tiers with even more problems. I'd probably be happier if it was just a flat 50% reduction in dispersion though, as then ships like the Mikasa, Warspite and Ishizuchi would actually get some use out of it.

[txtspeak]

what about when retraining a captain on a ship.

this happened when I first got my minekaze and I tried to transfer over my minekaze captain. and for the first week or so I had to survive without situational awareness.

and the first time I knew I had been spotted (which you need to NEVER be spotted in an IJN destroyer or you *CDI gannon voice* DIE) was when I was shot at (and killed)

why do we have this binary on off system, why can't the captains relearn skills as they go instead of being completely retarded until their training had finished when they became tactical einsteins

[Panocek]

I've said before that the BFT and AFT skills should only affect AA and secondaries, with the primary batteries being unaffected. For those that wish to increase the range and fire rate of their primaries, a parallel set of skills should be implemented that only affect primary batteries (but affect all primaries, regardless of calibre).

 

Random thought:

 

Tier 1 Expert Loader - improves reload for main battery guns: 10% for guns up to 203mm, 5% for guns above 203mm (instead crappy 30%/50% shell switch)

Tier 1 Basic Firing Training - improves secondaries RoF by 20%; improves AA dps by 20%

Tier 2 Expert Marksman - increases turret traverse by 2.5 degrees/sec for main battery up to 155mm, 1.5 degrees/sec for main battery up to 203mm; 0.8 degrees/sec for main battery above 203mm 

Tier 3 Supercharged shells - improves shell velocity by 15% for main battery guns; improves main battery range by 10%; reduces rate of fire by 10% (new skill into Artillery branch)

Tier 4 Advanced Firing Training - increases secondaries range by 20%, improves AA range by 20%

[EsaTuunanen]

Expert marksman should simply be changed into a percentage increase to the turning rate. That way there's no artificial cutoffs

And would become about useless for ships with very slow traverse speed.

 

Tier 2 Expert Marksman...0.8 degrees/sec for main battery above 203mm 

I don't think Yamato needs currently any buffs when looking statistics.

[Panocek]

And would become about useless for ships with very slow traverse speed.

 

I don't think Yamato needs currently any buffs when looking statistics.

 

Then add something like 0.5 degrees/sec for guns above 400mm

 

Or assign values per class: 2.5/sec for DDs, 1.5/sec for cruisers, 0.7/sec for BBs. I guess you can't go simpler than that. Considering split of USN cruiser branch into CL and CA, WG can differentiate them as different classes, thus different bonuses could apply

[RamirezKurita]

 

Random thought:

 

Tier 1 Expert Loader - improves reload for main battery guns: 10% for guns up to 203mm, 5% for guns above 203mm (instead crappy 30%/50% shell switch)

Tier 1 Basic Firing Training - improves secondaries RoF by 20%; improves AA dps by 20%

Tier 2 Expert Marksman - increases turret traverse by 2.5 degrees/sec for main battery up to 155mm, 1.5 degrees/sec for main battery up to 203mm; 0.8 degrees/sec for main battery above 203mm 

Tier 3 Supercharged shells - improves shell velocity by 15% for main battery guns; improves main battery range by 10%; reduces rate of fire by 10% (new skill into Artillery branch)

Tier 4 Advanced Firing Training - increases secondaries range by 20%, improves AA range by 20%

 

I was thinking something along those lines, possibly with the idea of splitting the "gunnery" line into "gunnery" and something like "quartermaster" or "logistics" which could then also include superintendent and jack of all trades (that way it wouldn't even take any more interface space as the "special skills" line wouldn't exist. That would overall give main guns about 7-8 skills to work with (assuming a couple of the logistics skills aren't about main guns), while secondary weapons would have access to the full 5 skills without them being diluted and limited by their effects on main batteries.

 

So a main gunnery skill line could be: (spoilered for space reasons)

T1 - Expert Loader - Basically as you said, except I don't like the artificial 203mm cutoff, I'd prefer a flat 10% across the board, as it wouldn't completely screw over the Yorck (I think that's the right one) with their 210mm guns, plus any eventual panzerschiffe line or the quite possible RN 9.2" gun cruisers they had planned.

T2 - Expert marksman - Simply increases main gun traverse rate by about 15%, much the same effect but without completely screwing over 210mm and other overgunned cruisers.

T3 - Ballistics Expert - increases main gun firing range by ~20% and reduces dispersion by a percentage, could also be moved up to T4, particularly to compete with supercharges in the logistics line.

T4 - Demolition Expert moved to logistics due to having better explosive filler is about the shells, not the people firing them, plus it should work on HE secondaries, leaving this space open for another skill that I can't think of currently.

T5 - Last Stand - As current.

 

A logistics tree could look like:

T1 - Dual Ammunition Feeds - Basically the current expert loader, except with better values as everyone agrees the current expert loader is bad. Could even be changed to "improved ammunition feeds" and also give resistance to having turrets disabled and magazine explosions.

T2 - Demolition Expert - like current one, except giving a percentage increase rather than flat to balance it across calibres rather than it only being good on low calibres with their fast fire rates, plus value tweaked for a T2 skill and to balance it against Fire Prevention (which is also a T2), ability also affects HE secondaries (don't know if the current one does).

T3 - Superintendent - as current.

T4 - Supercharges - Increases shell velocity and AP shell penetration (on both primaries and secondaries) by a small amount (no idea as to the balance values on this though, particularly as shell penetration is quite a strong value to tweak).

T5 - Jack of all Trades - as current.

 

Secondary weapons could then look like this:

T1 - BFT - increases secondary battery fire rate and AA effectiveness by 10+% (the ability could now be increased because it is not limited by the primary battery).

T2 - Torpedo Armament Expertise - as current.

T3 - The new torp skill in development - increases torpedo speed at the expense of range (I'd personally say I'd prefer if it didn't have a drawback but with lower bonuses, but I'll wait until I see the skill in action before judging).

T4 - AFT - increases secondary battery and AA range by 20+% (like BFT, the value can afford to be increased due to overpowering primary batteries no longer being a problem).

T5 - Manual Secondary Control - changed to a flat value across all tiers, plus the ability to prioritise a secondary target for secondaries, allowing the ability to actually function when fighting with enemies on both sides. Alternatively say that secondaries get the full bonus against targets that are marked by your main guns (so you can still fight on both sides by prioritising a target on one side and targeting one on the other side with your main battery), which would likely be a more elegant solution than being able to manually nominate two targets for your secondary battery.

 

[Comrad_StaIin]

Hi all,

 

 

 

Yamato would gain MAX 5% - that is hardly 40 km...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

with all the Upgrades and plane up it could get to 40km

[EmilyFara]

You got my vote. I dont know why not. Apart that some ships would need to be rebalanced a bit then. Because some ships would become too strong with that much increase in ROF or range.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

I gave the OP a +1 as well, but it will never work. It is far too good and sensible idea - and it conflicts with the need to persuade people to buy expensive premium ships.

 

[t3h3th32]

Hi there, also a big thumbs up to you Apollo. Many interesting ideas worth of having a much deeper conversation over.

 

Cheers,

~t3h'Pâr4d0x

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

 

with all the Upgrades and plane up it could get to 40km

 

 

Sorry - very true - I completely forgot about scout...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[G3Virus]

I support this idea to. Dont understand what WG is thinking with the changes to the captain skill tree.

[xCaptainObviousx]

I'd change the 155 - 203 mm bracket to 155 - 220 mm since the Yorck have 210 mm guns and some russian cruisers used 220 mm guns. 

[CollingwoodDK]

I support this idea to. Dont understand what WG is thinking with the changes to the captain skill tree.

 

They think that they can convince people to spend more money. From my point of view ... the opposite will be the case.

With high regards to WG ...